Rapture event - Poll

[Rhema]

It doesnt matter if at Jesus second coming, all the unsaved get vacuumed off the planet... Or not.

I kinda think it does, Joe. Indeed in both Mat. 24 and Mat. 13, it is the wicked that are "raptured" off the face of the Earth. (Although I like your synonym "vacuumed." )

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.​

(Matthew 13:37-43 KJV)

It's not loving to let millions of people believe false doctrines.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Note the ''he has perfected for all time''. The first part of this passage refers to purifying. By a single offering He has 'perfectly purified'.

The word "purify" is not in the text. G48 (purify) is not found in Hebrews.

Why do you need to add in words to the scripture? Because as written, it does not say what you want it to say.

For shame, truly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Christians had all of their sins removed and paid for by Jesus on the cross.

And yet that teaching cannot be found in the very words of Jesus Himself.

If a debt has been paid, how can it be forgiven? A debt can either be forgiven (in which it is not paid - nor needs to be since it was forgiven). Or a debt may be paid (in which debt forgiveness is moot - cause it was paid).

Jesus taught the Forgiveness of Sins by the Father through Repentance, not the Payment for Sins.

In truth,
Rhema

 

[joestue]

I kinda think it does, Joe. Indeed in both Mat. 24 and Mat. 13, it is the wicked that are "raptured" off the face of the Earth. (Although I like your synonym "vacuumed."

It does not matter in the sense that at the end of the 1000 years you have a fresh batch of wickedness waiting to be gathered up by a re-released satan.

How much bacteria you start with does change how fast it spreads, but it only takes one cell to contaminate the whole bottle.

I dont know if God is going to supernaturally vacuum off ALL the wicked at the end of this age, but i do know the righteous are staying here. (It may just be the middle east)

Its at the end of the next age that God removes death itself from this universe

 

[joestue]

post-Trib position

The third option i voted for also includes no rapture at all.

 

[Still Learning]

The third option i voted for also includes no rapture at all.

Too bad it can't happen for each person the way they believe it will.

 

[joestue]

Too bad it can't happen for each person the way they believe it will.

you know why people hate the truth?

because its hard. and you're always wrong. its never the way you want it to be.
and it takes a lot of work.

whatever God has in store to deal with man's sin... i can assure you only a handful of righteous born again people will want to see it through.


so, if i can fit together a way for Jesus to return in this generation without killing the wicked, and giving them at least 40 years to repent.. and people hate that, because they want a rapture and God to slay the wicked?

-where do you think they are going to go? up or down?

 

[Still Learning]

you know why people hate the truth?

because its hard. and you're always wrong. its never the way you want it to be.
and it takes a lot of work.

whatever God has in store to deal with man's sin... i can assure you only a handful of righteous born again people will want to see it through.


so, if i can fit together a way for Jesus to return in this generation without killing the wicked, and giving them at least 40 years to repent.. and people hate that, because they want a rapture and God to slay the wicked?

-where do you think they are going to go? up or down?

You have a problem with God's plan regarding how He's going to deal with the wicked? What's wrong with God being righteous? As for me, I like the way a righteous God does things. I choose to be on board with whatever He says.

 

[Still Learning]

so, if i can fit together a way for Jesus to return in this generation without killing the wicked, and giving them at least 40 years to repent.. and people hate that, because they want a rapture and God to slay the wicked?

-where do you think they are going to go? up or down?

Thank you for making it clear that you believe whether a person goes up or down is based on merit rather than grace. I now see you for who you truly are. I hope everyone else does as well.

 

[th1bill]

Thank you for making it clear that you believe whether a person goes up or down is based on merit rather than grace. I now see you for who you truly are. I hope everyone else does as well.

I see you are still twisting the truth, that is not what he said.

 

[Still Learning]

I see you are still twisting the truth, that is not what he said.

It looks like what he said to me. I'm pretty sure it's you twisting the truth again and bearing false witness again.

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Full stop.

He's asking if wanting to be raptured and the wicked getting killed determines whether one goes up or down. Like salvation is contingent on holiness. That is a holier than thou self-righteous way of thinking. And I don't think that way because I know to trust in Jesus because there is absolutely zero in me other than Christ's imputed righteousness to make me holy.

 

[KingJ]

The word "purify" is not in the text. G48 (purify) is not found in Hebrews.

Why do you need to add in words to the scripture? Because as written, it does not say what you want it to say.

For shame, truly,
Rhema

Stop trolling on a Christian site. Try be better in 2025.

Made perfect = purify. Cannot believe I had to type that to someone who says they have 165 IQ.

The rest of your post is just cringeworthy and deserves no reply.

Please can I ask that before you make a post and get all eager to share your two cents that you at least properly read the posts of the poster you are replying to.

Trolling:

- to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content.
- to harass, criticize, or antagonize (someone) especially by provocatively disparaging or mocking public statements, postings, or acts

 

[Garee]

And yet that teaching cannot be found in the very words of Jesus Himself.

If a debt has been paid, how can it be forgiven? A debt can either be forgiven (in which it is not paid - nor needs to be since it was forgiven). Or a debt may be paid (in which debt forgiveness is moot - cause it was paid).

Jesus taught the Forgiveness of Sins by the Father through Repentance, not the Payment for Sins.

In truth,
Rhema

The word repent needs to be defined in order to find the spiritual understanding. The father of lies would make it all one in the same. He has no spiritual understanding not subject to the power of the gospel

To repent is to turn in order to comfort. The work of Christ working in dying mankind
grieved over one's past and led by the Holy Spirit to seek forgiveness.

Two powerful turnings

Jeremiah 31:17-19And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border.;I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.;Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Same eternal love of Christ calling us to salvation. . . empowering us to return and do the first works in loving God, believe God as he gives us the power of His mighty faith . Unlike those Nicolaitanes, he hates. . they walk by sight after the temporal dying .


Revelation 2:3And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (believe God) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.;But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate

Christ the repenting power.

 

[Garee]

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. (Jeremiah 30:7)
Again, it's a time of God's wrath, where right from the beginning the Antichrist is unleashed upon the world to kick off the Seal Judgments. Revelation 6:15-17, which is teaching about how God's wrath and the Lamb's wrath gets poured out onto every single person on the Earth, tells us that God's wrath has come with the Seal Judgments.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and EVERYONE else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?” (Revelation 6:15-17

I would offer

Remember it's an evil generation, unconverted mankind that does seek after a sign before they believe in an unseen God.

They made Jesus into a circus seal saying . . work some magic perform a miracle when we see then we will believe for 1/2 second.

The foundation of Paganism "out of sight out of mind" Lying signs and wonder seekers" rather than Prophecy sealed with 7 seals

The great day of reformation spoken of in Hebrew 9. One like never before or ever again. The time of Jabob (deceiver) trouble

The two high walls that separated the Jewish men from the Jewish woman. The All-men's ceremony club another another wall the gentile from the Jew. A gospel explosion.

Born again family members from all the nation could gather as one.

One new ceremonial law as a shadow (1 Corinthians 11)

Jeremiah 30:1-7 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a bookFor, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.;And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's (deceiver) trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Hebrew 9:8-10The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:;Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[B-A-C]

As others have mentioned...

Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Some say there will be multiple raptures and multiple resurrections, but in the Bible I only see two. We have to make up multiple
raptures that aren't in the Bible to support the multiple raptures theory.

John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

One for the righteous, and one for the wicked. Not multiple raptures for either one.
When does this happen?

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

This happens when the "last" trumpet sounds. Now of course there are the seven trumpets mentioned in Revelation 8 ,9, and 11.
It would seem the "last" trumpet would be after those seven, but even if we discount those we still have a problem.

Matt 24:31 says a great trumpet will sound, before the elect are gathered up. Well if the church is already gathered up before this,
how could it have happened at the "last" trumpet if this trumpet is after that one? Is it the "after the last trumpet" trumpet?

Then there is another problem with the multiple saint raptures.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

What is the timeline here? When is Satan bound up for a thousand years? During the millennial reign of course.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

It says here that the "first resurrection" isn't until the millennial reign begins. That would be after the tribulation.
So, if the church was raptured before the "first" resurrection, what do we call that? The "before the first resurrection" resurrection?
How could the saints who were killed in the tribulation be resurrected in the "first resurrection" if it happened before they were killed?

If we just read the Bible as it is written, don't add or take away any additional raptures and resurrections, it all makes sense.
People give scriptures about how the saints will be spared from God's wrath and I agree we will be. So how does that work?

Here is an example:
Rev 9:3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

If you have the seal of God on your forehead you will be spared from God's plagues. Noah wasn't killed in the flood, but He still had to go through it. The saints will be spared from God's wrath, but they will still have to go through it.

Here is another hint:
1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Yes, but when does this happen? We don't have to guess, the Bible tells us.

2Thes 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

It doesn't happen until the man of lawlessness is revealed and takes his place in the temple to be worshiped.
So here are nine passages that all seem to say "after the tribulation". is there a single passage in the Bible that says, "before the tribulation"?

None that I have found.

 

[Dave M]

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Full stop.

do not stop there, because with grace and faith comes proof and evidence, in the way one conducts him self !! and that is the part that people do not talk about ..Jesus himself said the way is hard and few find it,

you see many people think believing and faith are just words or thoughts, but they are action, the Holy spirit will work on our hearts and change us. we will live the word of God out in our actions, such as bridling our tongues and not bashing other believers, or making assumptions about other believers. The closer we get to God and letting his Holy spirit rule our lives, the more it will show.

Faith with out proof is dead.

So to conclude we are saved by Gods grace and our faith is uselessness if we have no proof to support it. I can look on someones face book page and know weather they have proof in there words.

The people that want fire insurance but do not have a changed life, are the people I hope to reach with this message. We must have a changed heart.

 

[B-A-C]

Some people say there will be great revival during the tribulation, they will notice the rapture and the churches will be full the day after
the rapture.

..but I don't see this in the Bible.

Rev 2:21 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
Rev 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.
Rev 16:9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
Rev 16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

Rev 22:11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

It seems the righteous will continue to be righteous, and the wicked will continue to be wicked, and the majority of people during this time
will not repent. Now, I'm not saying no one will be saved during the tribulation. But I don't see a worldwide revival here.

Rev 2:26 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;

 

[B-A-C]

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Full stop.

Can you show me the scripture in the Bible that says "grace alone"? Just one.
I can show you one that says "NOT" by faith alone.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Matt 25:30 And throw the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

 

[Curtis]

Saved by Grace alone, but that Grace can only be accessed by Faith.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[th1bill]

It looks like what he said to me. I'm pretty sure it's you twisting the truth again and bearing false witness again.

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Full stop.

He's asking if wanting to be raptured and the wicked getting killed determines whether one goes up or down. Like salvation is contingent on holiness. That is a holier than thou self-righteous way of thinking. And I don't think that way because I know to trust in Jesus because there is absolutely zero in me other than Christ's imputed righteousness to make me holy.

Asking questions of others is how the rest of the world seeks knowledge and the opinions of others.