"Rich" Christians?

[Hitch]

How is it annoying or childish to quote the words of Christ?, and when Christ condemns Riches on so many occasions, which if you take the time to read the posts on this topic, have been written down so many times , then you should understand that the possession of them is not a ", blessing" but a condemnation, but perhaps neither Christ or myself are making ourselves clear.
So ill quote him again just to make it clear, " do not store up treasure on Earth,... for where your treasure is your heart will be also", "its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter heaven, "woe to you that are Rich for you have received your consolation", the story of Lazarus and the Rich man where the rich man was condemned to Hell for enjoying his riches and the good things in life, and the story of Zacchaeus who was only saved after hed given away his wealth, is that clear enough for you?.
And if youve finished with the insults and the name calling, perhaps you could quote me from the Gospels where Christ says its OK to be rich, and please , quote me from the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" and not the "Gospel of Reba1".

How is it annoying or childish to quote the words of Christ?,

By continuing to misuse them despite being often corrected. And I especially LOVE the part where you insert yourself ( but perhaps neither Christ or myself are making ourselves clear.) . LOL

 

[PloughBoy]

New International Version (Jeremiah 6)
This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’

New Living Translation
This is what the LORD says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’

This message is not to the WORLD, The world is not the people of GOD, He is talking to HIS own people. who are hardheaded and stiff-necked. and thinking he is talking to the people of The World.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

And if your "possessions" mean little or nothing to you then why not sell them and give the proceeds to the poor, that way youre not only avoiding Christs condemnation, youre also storing up Treasure in heaven, seems like a Win Win situation to me.

My "possessions" are providing for the lodging, and general wellbeing of 6 other people in addition to myself. If I do it your way, 6 people become without shelter, and provision. You call that a Win, Win??? You should probably put a little study into what Jesus MEANT about riches.

God doesn't care what you have. He cares a LOT about what has you.

 

[Waggles]

15 Do you think you are a king because you compete in cedar? Did not your father eat and drink and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him.
16 He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well. Is not this to know me? declares the LORD.
17 But you have eyes and heart only for your dishonest gain, for shedding innocent blood, and for practicing oppression and violence.”
Jeremiah 22:

 

[Rad]

My "possessions" are providing for the lodging, and general wellbeing of 6 other people in addition to myself. If I do it your way, 6 people become without shelter, and provision. You call that a Win, Win??? You should probably put a little study into what Jesus MEANT about riches.

God doesn't care what you have. He cares a LOT about what has you.

You said you were "Filthy Rich", you said you had a $320,000 house which you described as just a "Box with A/C" i think was how you put it, you said you had 3 cars and that none of your "possessions" had much value to you, i knew nothing of the 6 people you shelter and provide for as you never mentioned them. I would imagine ALL of us if we examined our lifestyles could find areas where we have more than we need, our "riches", and my point was that with hundreds of millions of people living in abject poverty and with millions of young children dying every year from Hunger and Disease those "riches" could do so much good and save so many lives., and would also store up treasure in heaven, that was the "win, Win" situation i was referring to.

And could you give me the Scriptural reference where Christ says " Its not what you have, your Wealth, Riches or possessions, its your attitude to them, "what has you", that decides whether youre condemned or not"., because ive been studying the Gospels for many years and have never come across that particular passage?

 

[Rad]

How is it annoying or childish to quote the words of Christ?,

By continuing to misuse them despite being often corrected. And I especially LOVE the part where you insert yourself ( but perhaps neither Christ or myself are making ourselves clear.) . LOL

OK Hitch, correct me, tell me where ive been misusing Christs words,

But youre right i did phrase that wrong, what i meant to say was that i was not making myself clear using Christs words, yeh it did come over as supremely arrogant and self righteous, and i stand corrected, so dont stop there, correct me over my misuse of Christs words as well

 

[Rad]

Actually the capitalism you hate grants the benefits of labor, industry and thrift to the widest spectrum of consumers. You hate private property because you rebel against God's law , as common a malady as the sniffles.

Better yet I'll send you , one way of course ,, you up ?

LOL No you wouldnt because I've already posted it and you ignored it, add that I noticed several times your grasping against 'the rich' has been corrected . But then the cause is more important the reality ,,, yawn.

Take a look around this great Capitalist world you seemingly so admire, the poverty, the suffering, the death, the destruction fuelled by the selfishness and greed Capitalism thrives on, because at the end of the day thats what drives Capitalism, its all about the bottom line, all about Money and Profit, thats why it fits in so well with Mans sinful nature, the Greed and Selfishness thats inherent in both feed off each other and have created the world we see today.
But its all coming to an end thank God, for we have destroyed Gods creation through our greed and indifference to the consequences of our actions, and whether it be Global Warming, Nuclear Holocaust or just a breakdown of the Global Environment in general your great world of capitalism is coming to an end.
Just out of interest how do you reconcile your love of Capitalism with Christs commandment to treat others we we would want to be treated , for Capitalism is founded on survival of the fittest and the Devil take the hindmost, as the millions that die every year from Hunger and poverty testify.

I think you need to go, see how the casualties of your great capitalist system live, you might learn something, perhaps even a little Compassion and Love of your Neighbour, for it seems youre in dire need of both

Youve posted where Christ says its Ok to be rich?, yep ive missed that, so do me a favour, cause theres 13 pages of this topic and give me that quote just one more time.....

 

[Rad]

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two denariiand gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.

Pro_28:20 A faithful man shall abound with blessings: but he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent.

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

Well thats Christ quoting on who is our "Neighbour" , but how does that relate to this topic, ?

And to put Matthew 6 verses you quoted in context,

Matthew 6:19-34 King James Version
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Seems to me this is Christ telling us not to store up Treasure, Riches, Possessions on Earth, because they will possess us, but to trust in God to provide for our needs, summed up in the phrase "You cannot serve God and Mammon".

And im asking for a quote from the Gospels where Christ says its OK to be rich, ive quoted many times where he condemns the Rich, and if we profess to follow him then thats the teaching we should adhere to, or do you think teachings from the OT are as valid or override Christs message where they conflict?

 

[Rad]

You need to read this again, my friend...Lean on the Holy Spirit to teach you what He meant when He said that.

Ive read it many times my friend, and always come to the same conclusion, that Christ condemns the rich and exalts the poor, together with the many other teachings that constitute Lukes version of the "Sermon on the Mount",........ but please, share with me your understanding of this text as your "leaning on the Holy Spirit" has taught you, because i think its something we should all value

 

[Reba1]

Well thats Christ quoting on who is our "Neighbour" , but how does that relate to this topic, ?

And to put Matthew 6 verses you quoted in context,

Matthew 6:19-34 King James Version
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Seems to me this is Christ telling us not to store up Treasure, Riches, Possessions on Earth, because they will possess us, but to trust in God to provide for our needs, summed up in the phrase "You cannot serve God and Mammon".

And im asking for a quote from the Gospels where Christ says its OK to be rich, ive quoted many times where he condemns the Rich, and if we profess to follow him then thats the teaching we should adhere to, or do you think teachings from the OT are as valid or override Christs message where they conflict?

How it relates is obvious if one removes their blinders.

 

[Reba1]

Mat_19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Verse 24 does not condemn just says it is very hard.

Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Woe to the rich same woe to those who eat Woe to any one laughing...woe if some one compliments ya..

Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
Mat 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

 

[Hitch]

Take a look around this great Capitalist world you seemingly so admire, the poverty, the suffering, the death, the destruction fuelled by the selfishness and greed Capitalism thrives on, because at the end of the day thats what drives Capitalism, its all about the bottom line, all about Money and Profit, thats why it fits in so well with Mans sinful nature, the Greed and Selfishness thats inherent in both feed off each other and have created the world we see today.
But its all coming to an end thank God, for we have destroyed Gods creation through our greed and indifference to the consequences of our actions, and whether it be Global Warming, Nuclear Holocaust or just a breakdown of the Global Environment in general your great world of capitalism is coming to an end.
Just out of interest how do you reconcile your love of Capitalism with Christs commandment to treat others we we would want to be treated , for Capitalism is founded on survival of the fittest and the Devil take the hindmost, as the millions that die every year from Hunger and poverty testify.

I think you need to go, see how the casualties of your great capitalist system live, you might learn something, perhaps even a little Compassion and Love of your Neighbour, for it seems youre in dire need of both

Youve posted where Christ says its Ok to be rich?, yep ive missed that, so do me a favour, cause theres 13 pages of this topic and give me that quote just one more time.....

'God's universe is orderly. There is a God-ordained regularity in economic affairs. . there is a predictable , lawful relationship between personal industriousness and wealth, between laziness and poverty. 'How long wilt thou sleep O sluggard ?? When wilt thou arise out of they sleep? Yet a little sleep a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest; So shall they poverty come as one travails and thy want as an armed man' " (Prov 6;9-11)'Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labor shall increase' (Pro 13;11). This applies to individuals, families, corporations and nations. . Not every godly man or organization will inevitably prosper economically, in the time and on earth and not every evil man will lose his wealth during his lifetime(Lk 16;19-31) but in the aggregate there will be significant correlation between covenantal faithfulness and external prosperity. In the long run the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just (Pro 13;22) this same principle applies to national, cultural and racial groups ( Deut 8) Covenantal law governs the sphere of economics. Wealth flows to those who work hard, deal honestly with their customers and who honor God. To argue, as the Marxists and socialists do that wealth flows in a free market social order towards those who are ruthless, dishonest, and blinded by greed is to deny the bible's explicit teachings concerning the nature of economic life. It is a denial of the covenantal lawfulness of the creation.



The Sinai Strategy, G North p 140

Now ,of course this isnt for you, its far over your head, but its for those you try so hard to deceive. Some folks outgrow your problem .

 

[Rhema]

And maybe i miss understood it. "I took it to mean: He was saying he has works and i do not have any." and I am late at the party.

Well you certainly screwed that one up. The scripture verse supports the premise that what one does counts, not what one "is".

You imputed judgment where there was none, and I (ME) am late to the party, because the thread went for 11 pages before I found it.

That said, you really need to get that chip off your shoulder.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

In the middle of all the begatting, scripture takes a pause to highlight one person:

And Jabez was more honourable than his brethren: and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, Because I bare him with sorrow. And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast (aka land borders), and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.​

(1 Chronicles 4:9-10 KJV)​

So God hates riches?

Rhema

@Rad - as I mentioned, I am late to your thread. (Couldn't be helped.) But while I take the time over the next few days to read these dozen pages (if I can), I'm curious as to what you think money is?

And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my border, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it be not to my sorrow! And God granted him that which he requested.​

(1 Chronicles 4:10 RV)​

Obviously, you would have no reason to ask God to increase your wealth since you think it is evil. So why don't you ask and see what happens?

 

[Rhema]

i knew nothing of the 6 people you shelter and provide for as you never mentioned them.

But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.​

(Matthew 6:3-4 KJV)​

Can't do alms if ya ain't got nuthin'....

Rhema
(Beware the naked man who offers you the shirt of his back.)

 

[emanuel88]

The lord always wanted people to be humble and thankful for what they have ;D.

 

[PloughBoy]

The lord always wanted people to be humble and thankful for what they have ;D.

That is a shame even "GOD" the FATHER cannot even gets what he wants, He can create Angels, he can created the darkness and the Light, He can put the Wetness in WATER, He can create the Air that occupies the SKIES, He created The SUN and gave it, its hotness, but still cannot get what he wants, He can raise the DEAD. But still cannot get what he wants, A whole universe of universes and a unknown number of "Galaxies" and a unknown number of "SOLAR SYSTEMS" within those unknown number of "GALAXIES" Have HE CREATED. And He still cannot get what he wants. I am quite sure or do you think HE is SO worried and hurt. because He wanted people to love HIM and to be humble and thankful for what they have. That is so sad i would think, GOD Is sad that a piece of dirt that he made and made a human out of a that dirt he made will not be humble and thankful for what they have .

That is so sad ,"GOD" cannot get what he wants. the slaves and persecuted Children of GOD who are starving and dying violent deaths, homeless and lack of water and clean water to drink and a solid roof upon their heads as they watch their own children starve and die in their arms all over the majority of this world. For this is how The True and the MAJORITY of The Children of GOD is treaded in this world. for the western world is not the face of TRUE Christianity. But have develop its own and personal face of how a True Child of GOD is Treated in This world.

A True "Child of GOD" is place upon The PATH of The "VIA DOLOROSA" BY GOD HIMSELF. For there is only One "WAY". One PATH. And it is so narrow and hard and many will try to find it but cannot find it. And will not find it,, no matter how hard they may try.

wow.

 

[Reba1]

Some folks just will not believe God is victorious !

 

[Rhema]

Some folks just will not believe God is victorious !

Or that Jesus has all power/authority on Earth.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)​

Rhema

 

[PloughBoy]

Some folks just will not believe God is victorious !

alright i am in agreement with you, but will add a little gumbo to the soup.

If "GOD" is "GOD" why would he have to be "Victorious" for He Is "GOD".