"Rich" Christians?

[PloughBoy]

Or that Jesus has all power/authority on Earth.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)​

Rhema

I thought "JESUS was "GOD" in the FLESH" and I thought His Father Prepare Him a body The Word enter into that specially made BODY, and Then It was "Proclaim" that

New American Standard Bible ( Matthew 1:23) the caps are not my caps but the caps of the "TEXT"
“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN WILL CONCEIVE AND GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY SHALL NAME HIM IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
[ are saying somewhere between His mother's womb and "Matthew 28" That "GOD" lost HiS POWER and Had to REGAIN it again. }
or is he saying He HAD "ALL power from the BEGINNING" and reminding them who HE IS> "INDICATIVE"

I know exactly what the text is saying. But wondering how you are, thinking concerning the "TEXT". Nothing more or nothing less.

and i am not asking for a fight but clarity.

 

[Rad]

But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.​

(Matthew 6:3-4 KJV)​

Can't do alms if ya ain't got nuthin'....

Rhema
(Beware the naked man who offers you the shirt of his back.)

Matthew 5:14-16 King James Version
"14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven".

But yeh of course we shouldnt be bragging about what we give, for we should be only too aware of just how little we give when compared with what we actually could give, and we dont give for the adoration and acclaim of others, we give because of the Love and compassion in our hearts , we need no other earthly reward.

And im not talking about having "nuthin", what im saying is that i believe you cant be Rich and a follower of Christ, well its virtually impossible, cause we all know the phrase Christ spoke, "with God everything is possible", perhaps an example would make it a bit clearer.

Someone earns $1,000,000 a year, they give $980,000 away to charity, leaving them with $20,000, $400 a week, which i believe in the US is around the Minimum wage, so after theyve paid rent/Mortgage, food, heating and lighting, travel costs, phone, internet and whatever, theyre hardly gonna be described as "Rich", and theyve given their surplus income, everything they dont "need" to live to Charity,

Its not what you earn, its what you keep thats the issue, its what you have left after youve given thats the true test of your faith, of your compassion, of your love, as Christ testified in the story of The Poor Widow who gave all she had
Luke 21 King James Version
21 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

 

[Rad]

In the middle of all the begatting, scripture takes a pause to highlight one person:

And Jabez was more honourable than his brethren: and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, Because I bare him with sorrow. And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast (aka land borders), and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.​

(1 Chronicles 4:9-10 KJV)​

So God hates riches?

Rhema

@Rad - as I mentioned, I am late to your thread. (Couldn't be helped.) But while I take the time over the next few days to read these dozen pages (if I can), I'm curious as to what you think money is?

And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my border, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it be not to my sorrow! And God granted him that which he requested.​

(1 Chronicles 4:10 RV)​

Obviously, you would have no reason to ask God to increase your wealth since you think it is evil. So why don't you ask and see what happens?

As i think it was you who said in a different topic, "Different time, Different Covenant", apologies if it wasnt, but i think it applies in this case, youre quoting from the OT where indeed Riches and wealth were considered a blessing from God, Christs teachings on Riches are entirely different, well his teachings on Rich people are entirely different. For Riches/ Money are just a medium by which the world shows the worth of anything.

If the Riches we possess are used for the benefit of others, of those in need, the hundreds of millions of hungry, homeless, and oppressed people of this world, then they are indeed a blessing and will store up for ourselves Treasure in heaven, if they are kept for ourselves , through our selfishness and greed and indifference to the suffering of others then indeed Christ condemns us.

I have asked God to increase my wealth so i can give more, perhaps he could swing it so i win the Lottery, but then again, perhaps knowing what a miserable wretch i am he doesnt want to put temptation in my path, for Riches can indeed Deceive us into thinking we own them, when in fact they own us.

 

[Rad]

'God's universe is orderly. There is a God-ordained regularity in economic affairs. . there is a predictable , lawful relationship between personal industriousness and wealth, between laziness and poverty. 'How long wilt thou sleep O sluggard ?? When wilt thou arise out of they sleep? Yet a little sleep a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest; So shall they poverty come as one travails and thy want as an armed man' " (Prov 6;9-11)'Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labor shall increase' (Pro 13;11). This applies to individuals, families, corporations and nations. . Not every godly man or organization will inevitably prosper economically, in the time and on earth and not every evil man will lose his wealth during his lifetime(Lk 16;19-31) but in the aggregate there will be significant correlation between covenantal faithfulness and external prosperity. In the long run the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just (Pro 13;22) this same principle applies to national, cultural and racial groups ( Deut 8) Covenantal law governs the sphere of economics. Wealth flows to those who work hard, deal honestly with their customers and who honor God. To argue, as the Marxists and socialists do that wealth flows in a free market social order towards those who are ruthless, dishonest, and blinded by greed is to deny the bible's explicit teachings concerning the nature of economic life. It is a denial of the covenantal lawfulness of the creation.



The Sinai Strategy, G North p 140

Now ,of course this isnt for you, its far over your head, but its for those you try so hard to deceive. Some folks outgrow your problem .

If you want to discuss the Merits of what you consider is this Godly ordained Economic system of Capitalism ill be only too pleased to discuss it with you. As it is this topic is about "Rich" Christians, and i;m still waiting for a quote from you where Christ explicitly states that its OK to be Rich and a follower of his.

I've given you, as have others, many explicit Quotes from Christ where he condemns the Rich, so fire away cause im waiting. But if thats not for you, if its over your head, then ill take it youve just been trying to deceive all along, and just hope that one day you outgrow your problem before its too late.

 

[Rad]

How it relates is obvious if one removes their blinders.

Well remove my "blinders", because thats what a discussion forums all about, discussing and sharing your views, imparting knowledge to those you think are walking in darkness, of learning from others, so if you have any "pearls of wisdom" , please enlighten me.

 

[Rad]

Mat_19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Verse 24 does not condemn just says it is very hard.

Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Woe to the rich same woe to those who eat Woe to any one laughing...woe if some one compliments ya..

Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
Mat 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

"Very Hard"!!!, youve seen a Camel, youve seen the eye of a needle, its not "very hard", its impossible, and you dont think thats condemning, "How hard it will be for those that trust in Riches to enter the Kingdom of heaven, Its easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a Rich man enter Heaven". Well how about Luke 6:24 "woe to you that are Rich for you have received your consolation", and ill quote the Story of the Rich man and Lazarus again,

Luke 16:19-31 King James Version

"19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

is that condemnation enough?, because it seems pretty clear to me.

Yeh i wondered when Joseph of Arimathaea would turn up, and theres no doubting he was a Rich Disciple of Christ, but what does that prove?, are you trying to say that because Christ has a Rich disciple then its OK for us to be rich and a follower of his despite Christ explicitly condemning the rich on numerous occasions. Guess youve got to decide are you going to follow Christs teachings or try to twist and turn them in a vain attempt to justify your own beliefs.
I have no problem with Christ condemning others, then telling his followers not to judge, of him beating and kicking the moneychangers out of the temple then telling his followers to abhor violence and to not resist evil, Christ is Christ, he doesnt have to answer to us for what some might regard as double standards or Hypocrisy. If Christ has a Rich follower, and ive also heard it claimed that the women that supported him were also probably rich, then ive no problem with that, and ive no problem with him condemning the rich and telling his followers to give sacrificially to those in need, to love your neighbour as yourself and treat others as youd want to be treated.
I have no problem with it, but the question is do you, because if you do then i think you need to also question are you a true follower of his as well.

 

[Hitch]

If you want to discuss the Merits of what you consider is this Godly ordained Economic system of Capitalism ill be only too pleased to discuss it with you. As it is this topic is about "Rich" Christians, and i;m still waiting for a quote from you where Christ explicitly states that its OK to be Rich and a follower of his.

I've given you, as have others, many explicit Quotes from Christ where he condemns the Rich, so fire away cause im waiting. But if thats not for you, if its over your head, then ill take it youve just been trying to deceive all along, and just hope that one day you outgrow your problem before its too late.

LOL You've already been corrected , you have given not one passage in which 'the rich' are condemned for being rich.

 

[Hitch]

All income should be given to the poor after one satisfies bare necessities . . . . Any ‘Christian’ who takes for himself any more than the ‘plain necessaries of life; Wesley insisted, lives in an open, habitual denial of the Lord.’ He has ‘gained riches and hellfire!’ “ (Ronald Sider, Rich Chr&zhns in an Age of Hung~ p. 172 [cf. p. 164])

“Let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink. . . . Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in selfabasement . . . infiated without cause by his fleshly mind.” (COLOSSianS 2:16-18)

All income should be given to the poor after one satisfies bare necessities . . . . Any ‘Christian’ who takes for himself any more than the ‘plain necessaries of life; Wesley insisted, lives in an open, habitual denial of the Lord.’ He has ‘gained riches and hellfire!’ “ (Ronald Sider, Rich Chr&zhns in an Age of Hung~ p. 172 [cf. p. 164])

“Let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink. . . . Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in selfabasement . . . infiated without cause by his fleshly mind.” (COLOSSianS 2:16-18)

All quotes from Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt-Manipulators

 

[Rhema]

The Word enter into that specially made BODY

I hadn't known that Jesus was possessed.

I thought "JESUS was "GOD" in the FLESH"

Whatever made you think that?

I know exactly what the text is saying.

Well then, our discussion is complete.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven".

So... "good works" only means alms? (Obviously you don't think that.)

What about building a hospital ?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about hiring people and giving them jobs?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about digging a well for clean water?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about agricultural research to improve crop yield and food value?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about teaching people to read and write.

(Obviously it would have to be after I feed the chickens and milk the cows at 4 am... but we can do that...!!!)

 

[Rhema]

Its not what you earn, its what you keep thats the issue,

God told you to keep 90%... go holler at him.

 

[Rhema]

As i think it was you who said in a different topic, "Different time, Different Covenant", apologies if it wasnt,

No it was not.

but i think it applies in this case,

No it does not.

God has changed his mind about righteousness?

Your view of the New Covenant has God committing evil in what he did for Jabez?

(Well... public education.... I shouldn't be surprised. You get what you pay for.)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

perhaps knowing what a miserable wretch i am

According to your faith so be it.

 

[Hitch]

So... "good works" only means alms? (Obviously you don't think that.)

What about building a hospital ?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about hiring people and giving them jobs?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about digging a well for clean water?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about agricultural research to improve crop yield and food value?

(Oh wait, we can't do that... got no money...)

What about teaching people to read and write.

(Obviously it would have to be after I feed the chickens and milk the cows at 4 am... but we can do that...!!!)

Perf.

 

[Rad]

No it was not.


No it does not.

God has changed his mind about righteousness?

Your view of the New Covenant has God committing evil in what he did for Jabez?

(Well... public education.... I shouldn't be surprised. You get what you pay for.)

Rhema

You know there often comes a time when our ideology, our view of Life , the way we think things should be , conflicts with Christs teachings. And then we have three choices, we change our way of thinking and acting and accept the Authority of the Saviour we profess to follow , we try to twist and corrupt his teachings to fit in with our world view, or we have to decide do we still want to be a disciple of Christ.

I have never said God committed Evil, those are your words, what i said was " Different times, Different Covenant", or are you again taking issue with Christs teachings because they dont fit into your view of how things should be, "The Gospel of Rhema" and not the "Gospel of Christ".

So these are Christs words not mine,
Matthew 5:17-48 King James Version
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Hopefully with the benefits of a Private education youll understand this, for as you say , " you get what you pay for", yep spoken like a true Capitalist.

but getting back to the topic of "Rich" Christians, again lets see what Christ, not me, has to say on the subject,

Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

and ,

Mark 10:17-25 King James Version

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

and

Luke 1:42-55 King James Version

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

and

Luke 6:20-27 King James Version

20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

and

Luke 16:13-15 King James Version

13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

and

Luke 16:19-31 King James Version

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

and finally

Luke 19:1-10 King James Version

19 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Now we could debate Economics and how we think things should be, but as Christians we are called to follow Christs teachings, and the teaching on this issue is clear, Christ taught that you cant be rich and a follower of his. Now if you want to disagree with that then i suggest you give me a text or verse where Christ explicitly says its Ok to be Rich and a follower of his, because ive yet to see one, If you cant, then i suggest you either change your way of thinking and follow Christs teaching or ask yourself do i really want to be a follower of his, because at the end of the day thats what it boils down to.

 

[Rad]

All income should be given to the poor after one satisfies bare necessities . . . . Any ‘Christian’ who takes for himself any more than the ‘plain necessaries of life; Wesley insisted, lives in an open, habitual denial of the Lord.’ He has ‘gained riches and hellfire!’ “ (Ronald Sider, Rich Chr&zhns in an Age of Hung~ p. 172 [cf. p. 164])

“Let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink. . . . Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in selfabasement . . . infiated without cause by his fleshly mind.” (COLOSSianS 2:16-18)

All income should be given to the poor after one satisfies bare necessities . . . . Any ‘Christian’ who takes for himself any more than the ‘plain necessaries of life; Wesley insisted, lives in an open, habitual denial of the Lord.’ He has ‘gained riches and hellfire!’ “ (Ronald Sider, Rich Chr&zhns in an Age of Hung~ p. 172 [cf. p. 164])

“Let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink. . . . Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in selfabasement . . . infiated without cause by his fleshly mind.” (COLOSSianS 2:16-18)

All quotes from Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt-Manipulators

Not sure where youre going with this, but one thing i should thank you for is the reference to the Book by Ron Sider, "Rich Christians in an age of hunger", i used to have a copy, its a great insight into Christs teachings and expounds far better than i could ever do his message on Wealth and Riches.

And im still waiting for that quote from Christ explicitly saying its OK to be Rich and a disciple of his, you said youd posted it before but i cant see it, so either ive missed it or youre trying to deceive me and others reading this thread.

So give me that quote again and ill check out

 

[Rad]

LOL You've already been corrected , you have given not one passage in which 'the rich' are condemned for being rich.

Read my reply to Rhema above, especially the quotes from the Gospels, youll find plenty of condemnation of the rich there.

Thing is though, there are none so blind as those who dont want to see, and with you thats the problem. You have this view of how the world should be, and you try to twist and corrupt Christs teachings to fit your view, and that aint how it is.

You either accept the authority of Christ or you dont, you cant pick and choose, and if you cant accept his authority then you need to question do i still want to be a follower of his?.

 

[Hitch]

Not sure where youre going with this, but one thing i should thank you for is the reference to the Book by Ron Sider, "Rich Christians in an age of hunger", i used to have a copy, its a great insight into Christs teachings and expounds far better than i could ever do his message on Wealth and Riches.

And im still waiting for that quote from Christ explicitly saying its OK to be Rich and a disciple of his, you said youd posted it before but i cant see it, so either ive missed it or youre trying to deceive me and others reading this thread.

So give me that quote again and ill check out

You've already been corrected more than the required amount.

 

[Dave M]

Read my reply to Rhema above, especially the quotes from the Gospels, youll find plenty of condemnation of the rich there.

The way I see the quotes in the gospel are NOT condemnation for the rich at all. It is condemnation for people who have placed there trust in there Riches.

 

[Hitch]

Read my reply to Rhema above, especially the quotes from the Gospels, youll find plenty of condemnation of the rich there.

Thing is though, there are none so blind as those who dont want to see, and with you thats the problem. You have this view of how the world should be, and you try to twist and corrupt Christs teachings to fit your view, and that aint how it is.

You either accept the authority of Christ or you dont, you cant pick and choose, and if you cant accept his authority then you need to question do i still want to be a follower of his?.

LOL ya gotta admit no group has projection down like pretend Christians. What a gas.