Roman Catholics and Protestants

[Dave M]

This is exactly why I talk so much about learning to use the gift of discernment, and to recognize the movement of the Holy Spirit in your heart.

For those of you who do have the Holy Spirit within you, you can discern whether or not I am telling you the truth, just by the movement of the spirit.

And I've stressed a number of times how important it is to learn to recognize the Holy Spirit within you because if you do not then how are you going to know the difference between the movement of the Holy Spirit and your own thoughts?

you seem to put feeling in front of the word, if you have the Holy Spirit you will crave the word of God as it is food for the spirit, and it certainly wont be tricky !! you mak no sense att all and I have the gifts and use them all the time

 

[rstrats]

...do you consider the bible God's word the final authority on all spiritual things?

I guess it would depend on how you are defining the phrase "spiritual things" as you are using it here.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother @B-A-C
Thank you for the thread. It seems to have been time for another open discussion on Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. Doesn't get much better or worse, depending on one's perspective as we break bread and talk out the differences found between them both.

Do not get me wrong, it is important to look at and weigh it against Scripture with Holy Spirit guidance as the only sure way of knowing. Oh, there are many Godly men who have written what certainly appears not to be in Scripture and are add on; I truly note that if it does not contradict what is accepted Scripture, we will more often agree with the telling then not. Tossing out of course those who overtly disagree with the divinity of Jesus, and the like. Then again, I would not call them Godly writers, but small "g" ones instead, because it is surely not my God who they serve!

Moving on. The inability of the Church to look past the differences and focus on Jesus and getting the Gospel out there and making disciples is the greatest concern in an ever-darkening world that needs Jesus Christ, dare I say, "more than ever". I do not believe that after those saved are judged, that we'll be separated according to our earthly dominations/churches. However, I believe, this is not counting those whose focus is on complying with what the denomination tells one to believe and not the Word, might be sorely surprised. They could easily fit into the category of those mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23. Fearful thought for many who profess both Catholicism & Protestantism.

I see one Body of Christ, one Church with Jesus as the Head, and those who believe and walk with the Holy Spirit in this life are it. They could be found in many of the denominations so far mentioned, and also those who have bounced around the varied ones available closest to where they live. Many may also be found online as well. Sadly, unable to find what one would consider a Bible Centered one nearby them to attend.

Anyway, I am curious however, how many here who have read this thread identify themselves as being when asked "What do you believe in?" or "What do you belong to?", if the answer is "Jesus Christ/a follower of Jesus Christ" or "fill in the blank with the denomination of your choice".

Meaning @Bill would you answer Catholic or follower of Jesus? I picked you out because I'm pretty sure most of the others attend other denominations and would never answer Protestant when asked to identify themselves! However, they are welcome to consider what they have answered or would answer if asked.

Note: My suggestions to others who read this post of mine, is that they refrain from tossing out comments like "it's of the devil", "has no truth in them" along with other generalities instead of being specific in what makes them such, and hopefully add a Scripture or two to support your position would be helpful. Now vids and other references are nice for support but being able to put it in your own words, and how you have come to understand what you have shared would probably be of greater benefit, to oneself and to others.

Well, again thank-you Dear Brother for compiling this thread, which can be exhausting to do!
God bless you and yours.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Dave M]

774512403010.

Anyway, I am curious however, how many here who have read this thread identify themselves as being when asked "What do you believe in?" or "What do you belong to?", if the answer is "Jesus Christ/a follower of Jesus Christ" or "fill in the blank with the denomination of your choice".

\o/
<><

my FB page profile says I am a follower of Jesus Christ, I also frequently say denominations divide and Jesus unites

 

[Christ4Ever]

I identify myself as someone who has Jesus Christ in the center of my heart, and that I am of the Catholic faith.

Dear Brother,
So, when asked your faith, you say Catholic
I say God given. It predates any denominational allegiance that gave me what? (shrug)

I may even say that it pointed me in the direction in which to look (scripture), which I am grateful for. I am even grateful for the RCC because it truly showed how good can be perverted in a World (humanity) that seems to have no boundaries to the evil it is willing to consider as acceptable, even against a God that loves them as much as He does. The same can be said concerning many of the founding Protestant denominations by their current stances on issues that would have the Godly men who separated themselves from Rome back in the day rolling over in their graves if that were even possible!

This is not to say that the RCC membership or other denominations have not done acts of kindness as most religions have done, to this same humanity, but it speaks to the saying "giving the devil his due" (Shakespeare) that he will not leave any stone unturned to ensure they keep him company in the hell made for him and his minions.

I do apologize to you for the harshness sounding of the preceding sentence, for how it may pain you or others for it can be said about many denominations in Protestantism as well. So do not take it to heart as being singled out for your RCC and thereby be hurt by it, because our God is neither Roman Catholic nor Protestant.

Reread James 2:15-20 and stop there, because this is not about the old argument about salvation "faith vs works" discussion, but a rather more foundational observation of James made that a Sister in Christ Jesus here at Talk Jesus could attest to having gone through in her own life, and the church I dare say she attended was aligned with Protestantism! Maybe for the sake of brevity and not having everyone who reads this running to their Bibles to see what it says, though in truth that might not be a bad thing! lol

Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, and you say, "Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well"--but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? So you see, faith by itself isn't enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." But I say, "How can you show me your faith if you don't have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds." You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can't you see that faith without good deeds is useless? James 2:15-20 NLT

This dear Sister was in need, having lost just about everything, home, clothes etc., and those who had previously embraced her and called her sister, only had a "good-bye and have a good day" for her. In many respects the RCC does one part and neglects or in some cases points in the wrong direction God's saving grace, while many others will do quite the opposite as seen in this sister's life. Never giving the fullness of what we know is truth, by saying religion doesn't save, but Jesus does!!! It can easily be pointed out through His earthly ministry/life, sacrificial death, without which all the acts of benevolence would have been for not, that only God's Mercy, and Saving Grace are necessary, and that by the Holy Spirit the change that will lead to those acts of benevolence which will truly have the full eternal benefit it is meant to have can be found in Christ Jesus alone.

Pardon me Brother Bill, but I have rambled/wandered off a bit!!! lol

You say you would not point one you are speaking to or who is seeking, necessarily to a Catholic church. My question to you is if the RCC is all that why won't you? What holds you back besides not knowing God's will for the person you are talking to?

I have no such qualms in pointing one to the church I attend, though I do emphasize that the greatest desire is to find one near them that is Bible Centered and acts accordingly in Christ Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I am honest enough to give an honest assessment of whatever they put forth as a church to attend. Even pleading ignorance in some cases! For I have read up on some, attended/belonged to many others, including Holy Mother Church, and others considered cults as well. I guess one can say I am well rounded or have had many speed bumps along the path that God has placed me on to walk. So, in a way like Paul and many others, I dare say pointing one to the Cross/Christ Crucified is sufficient unto the day.

God bless you and yours Brother Bill.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

because our God is neither Roman Catholic nor Protestant.

.... and so...

as He is not, why would we chose to be?

As in, why???


Bless you ....><>

 

[Christ4Ever]

Greetings,



.... and so...

as He is not, why would we chose to be?

As in, why???


Bless you ....><>

Dear Brother,
Love you so!
Assembly and all that entails, because we have the most difficult time coming together under His Cover gracefully!

Did He want us to follow Him first or build the Temple first?
And why?

I am sure you have had church in some of the oddest places, at least to some folks. Not to me of course, because we as the Church, in Christ Jesus, rejoice in and with Him wherever we happen to be at! Though doing so in a parking lot as I have done, I would suggest making way for the cars moving about, especially as it gets dark and the lighting is questionable!

With the Love of Christ Jesus my dearest of Brothers!
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

The faith of Christ verses the Catholic faith.

Is it that hard to decide?

Who decided we should have demoninations?

Why do we hold onto traditions of men?


The term 'love' is trashed and used as if it is a good selling point.

Why?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

A little question...

Does a little leaven leaven the whole lump?


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

I see one Body of Christ, one Church with Jesus as the Head, and those who believe and walk with the Holy Spirit in this life are it.

How far do we go with Ecumenism? Shall we include the Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses? Unitarians? How about Muslims and Hindu's? Are they part of the body as well?
Why do suppose Luther and Protestants "protested" the RCC? Do you think anything has changed in the last 500 years? There are many denominations ( hundreds? ) that
generally think the other's are "close enough". Are the Roman Catholics close enough? According to the Catholic church, we Protestant are not "close enough".

However, once they are in purgatory, it's possible they can still be saved -- The Salvation of Non-Catholics

Non-Catholics can be saved, as the Church affirms (CCC 846-48), but we should not presume that this will necessarily happen, lest we fall into the sin of religious indifferentism.

Assuming they accept Roman Catholic beliefs at some point while they are in purgatory.

Meaning @Bill would you answer Catholic or follower of Jesus?

This thread isn't about @Bill, it never was intended to point anyone out. If you read any one of my posts in this thread, I don't believe you find that I have criticized the RCC in any way.
I merely pointed out the differences. ... and like it or not, there are differences, so we can claim to "all be the same" if you like. But to my question.. are the differences "close enough"?

Something to ponder while you answer that question... My step-daughter was raised Protestant. She married a Roman Catholic, they were married in a Protestant ( specifically a "non-denominational" ) church.
But according to the Priest that comes to our men's Bible study breakfast, they are not married. Does that bother me? Not too much, and in reality I never gave it a second thought for the last few years.
But it must bother him, because he has brought it up a number of times... to remind me that they are living in fornication.

Again that has nothing to do with Bill, or anyone else on this Website.

 

[Br. Bear]

How far do we go with Ecumenism? Shall we include the Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses? Unitarians? How about Muslims and Hindu's? Are they part of the body as well?
Why do suppose Luther and Protestants "protested" the RCC? Do you think anything has changed in the last 500 years? There are many denominations ( hundreds? ) that
generally think the other's are "close enough". Are the Roman Catholics close enough? According to the Catholic church, we Protestant are not "close enough".

However, once they are in purgatory, it's possible they can still be saved -- The Salvation of Non-Catholics



Assuming they accept Roman Catholic beliefs at some point while they are in purgatory.



This thread isn't about @Bill, it never was intended to point anyone out. If you read any one of my posts in this thread, I don't believe you find that I have criticized the RCC in any way.
I merely pointed out the differences. ... and like it or not, there are differences, so we can claim to "all be the same" if you like. But to my question.. are the differences "close enough"?

Something to ponder while you answer that question... My step-daughter was raised Protestant. She married a Roman Catholic, they were married in a Protestant ( specifically a "non-denominational" ) church.
But according to the Priest that comes to our men's Bible study breakfast, they are not married. Does that bother me? Not too much, and in reality I never gave it a second thought for the last few years.
But it must bother him, because he has brought it up a number of times... to remind me that they are living in fornication.

Again that has nothing to do with Bill, or anyone else on this Website.

Thank you for the clarification @B-A-C

It appears that some have misunderstood.

If we recognize that if someone decides to identify as pertaining to whatever is being discussed, here or anywhere, it will appear that all interaction with the person will be focused upon them at least as much as the discussion at hand.

May I also submit that there are concerns for those who profess any identity other than Christ alone and on this thread, some have attempted to point out and question errors and issues regarding the Roman Catholic belief and tradition.

While we can be kind and loving, if it is from behind outfits, caps, kissing rings, etc, it is no different than the unbelievers who are kind and loving. However, having said that, it may be found to be worthy of judgment as those who do/practice such worldly ceremony do so in the name of Christ and project falsehood and deception to the audience, being all who Christ gave His life for.

By no means is the Roman Catholic front the only front that errs in this.

Yes, God judges the heart but does that give liberty to pervert the Gospel?

I know many folk who are so kind and beautiful from a human perspective, some also being deliberately adhering to demoninations and 'faiths' , who are void of the gift God gave because they deny Christ as Lord; wanting to be members of groups or bodies that are not His, refusing to separate themselves from the evil.

Do we judge for God that He has His Children glued to and members of Antichrist, in order to sound more loving? God forbid. He does not do such. It is man's wisdom that tantalizing suggests such and automatically concludes that God is unable to minister without comprise.


The whole judgment idea is messed up.

Thank you again for clarifying Brother.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Christ4Ever]

How far do we go with Ecumenism? Shall we include the Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses? Unitarians? How about Muslims and Hindu's? Are they part of the body as well?
Why do suppose Luther and Protestants "protested" the RCC? Do you think anything has changed in the last 500 years? There are many denominations ( hundreds? ) that
generally think the other's are "close enough". Are the Roman Catholics close enough? According to the Catholic church, we Protestant are not "close enough".

However, once they are in purgatory, it's possible they can still be saved -- The Salvation of Non-Catholics



Assuming they accept Roman Catholic beliefs at some point while they are in purgatory.



This thread isn't about @Bill, it never was intended to point anyone out. If you read any one of my posts in this thread, I don't believe you find that I have criticized the RCC in any way.
I merely pointed out the differences. ... and like it or not, there are differences, so we can claim to "all be the same" if you like. But to my question.. are the differences "close enough"?

Something to ponder while you answer that question... My step-daughter was raised Protestant. She married a Roman Catholic, they were married in a Protestant ( specifically a "non-denominational" ) church.
But according to the Priest that comes to our men's Bible study breakfast, they are not married. Does that bother me? Not too much, and in reality I never gave it a second thought for the last few years.
But it must bother him, because he has brought it up a number of times... to remind me that they are living in fornication.

Again that has nothing to do with Bill, or anyone else on this Website.

Dear Brother,
I believe others have replied to me prior to your post, but as the originator you have standing and move to the head of the line.
Nothing really has changed brother, except the Word of God, Gospel, Disciples are continuing to spread and being made throughout the World! Alleluia!

As far as Ecumenism is concerned that is not what I was speaking of, when talking of the Body of Christ and one Church though I see this very movement happening in the middle east, like "coexist" that you see stickers of almost everywhere. A very foundation towards a one world religion, which if I am not mistaken the Vatican is all for (ecumenism and not one world religion).

Still, as far as what I was talking about, parts of the Body of Christ and one Church are found in many of the different denominations, and dare I say that these Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus may even be found in some other than Christian religions. Those in the latter, who have not broken away as yet and for a variety of reason and some do not do so for fear of life and family being killed. Though some do stay in a manner of speaking, as a way to evangelize which is a very dangerous task they have undertaken for the sake of the Gospel and our Lord. I have read/listened to testimonies of some that do so. Prayers out to them all for our God's Coverage in the power of the Holy Spirit for all they are doing! In the name of Jesus Christ Amen!

For I do believe that other gods are not consistent with following Christ Jesus, but the why is not as important as they are believers in Christ Jesus, and so the Body of Christ and the one Church with Jesus as the Head!

The story you have told with your family is sad and the only surprising part is that the priest was willing to verbalize that belief out loud. Though I no longer can say I associate with Catholic Priest's. My last contact with one was years ago, when I made an appointment with the gentleman concerning a parishioner of his church to inform him that the younger child (high school) was involved in the practice of magic/witchcraft or at least curious enough to own books/objects in order to practice it. I knew of this because the child had given my daughter these books/objects as a way of interesting her in the subject. He looked at me as if I had a third eye in the middle of my forehead and said not a word. Not a question or word left this man's mouth! I wanted to take his pulse or check for a heartbeat! I finally gave him my good-bye, stood-up, and left. I guess you can call that a one-way conversation! lol

I could also tell of stories in being placed in a Catholic Boys home for a couple of years that was run by the Christian Brothers. Seeing both the good and the bad of what happened there, is just for me a matter of life experiences. I was not a child that parents would say their own children should model after! Yet, in some respects I do hold it against the church their lack of oversight, but also have great appreciation for what they have done for the many children who went through their care. For without which they very easily could have found themselves in jail. I am able to balance my experiences, along with certain practices that they promote, that when I finally was brought to Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, and received greater understanding through God's Word, I saw the issues with Catholicism with a greater clarity. And so, the importance of staying in His Word, and threads like yours brother that allows for free-flowing discussions to take place are very important.

I know your intent was not to bash anyone, much less Bill and I do believe this brother has been hurt by what I posted (which I eventually will get to replying to him on), and not necessarily from anything that you have said. Though I will say that pointing out the differences is enough to open the door to others, where voicing their own perspectives on the subject of the RCC was only opportunistic, which is all the thread of yours did. After all we are a Protestant site as Br. Bear mentioned earlier and an understanding of differences is necessary for some who are not aware of the practices of Catholicism.

The belief system of RCC is interesting enough. You touched on it here in part in the above post as it pertains to salvation, but it bares maybe conversing more on the subject if not on this thread, possibly another.

Again thank-you for what you do on Talk Jesus Brother. I have enjoyed most of what you have written over the years and look forward to the day that we embrace in brotherly love in Christ Jesus!

With the Love of Christ Jesus dear brother!
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[rstrats]

Why do we hold onto traditions of men?

One reason may be that they are thought to be scripturally based, e.g., the observance of the first day of the week in honor of the resurrection when scripture is totally silent with regard to the practice.

 

[Bill]

Greetings,



.... and so...

as He is not, why would we chose to be?

As in, why???


Bless you ....><>

As you know, Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter. And he started something, often referred to as the community of believers.

I think every Church in the world that calls itself Christian, will bring itself back to that moment saying that we are the one. The only problem I've ever seen with all of the churches is that everybody gets really nitpicky about what they're willing to accept or not accept. I mean we could go to the guys that are the snake handlers over in Appalachia if you want to get bit by snakes to test God's faith. All the way to receiving the Eucharist in the Catholic Church..

What I know of the Lord, is that he understands Humanity well. He understands that we have either preferences or things that we don't want to accept. Not everyone can put on the same pair of shoes.

And since I've been here I've been trying to share that with you all. It's not a matter of whether you believe this or you believe that that's all extra. It doesn't matter if you can believe me talking about out of the body experiences fighting with angels or you believe the next guy talking about some other crazy spiritual thing. All these things don't really matter.

The bottom line what matters most and the only thing that really matters is your love and your heart. If you love God with all your heart then you got it made. But if you don't love God with all your heart then you got a problem a serious problem.

Having nothing but love in your heart for Jesus supersedes everything else. As far as worrying about what the Catholics do as far as the Eucharist and all that other stuff let God deal with it. We are not the judge or the jury for that matter. So why try to become that.

 

[B-A-C]

As you know, Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter. And he started something, often referred to as the community of believers.

Another one of those Roman Catholic - Protestant differences.

Matt 16:15; He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Matt 16:16; And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:17; And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18; And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matt 16:19; And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

... "and upon this rock"... I will build my church. Catholics believe the rock here is Peter. Protestant believe the rock here is the belief that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God".

 

[Bill]

Another one of those Roman Catholic - Protestant differences.

Matt 16:15; He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Matt 16:16; And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:17; And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18; And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matt 16:19; And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

... "and upon this rock"... I will build my church. Catholics believe the rock here is Peter. Protestant believe the rock here is the belief that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God".

Jesus referred to himself as the Cornerstone he never referred to himself as The Rock.

The scripture clearly states that the name Peter means Rock

I know you want to try to point out differences between Catholics and Protestants the only problem is is your hitting your head up against the scripture

Your argument is with God and scripture and not with the Catholics. The Catholics didn't make it up, we just follow the scripture.

 

[Hekuran]

Jesus referred to himself as the Cornerstone he never referred to himself as The Rock.

The scripture clearly states that the name Peter means Rock

I know you want to try to point out differences between Catholics and Protestants the only problem is is your hitting your head up against the scripture

Your argument is with God and scripture and not with the Catholics. The Catholics didn't make it up, we just follow the scripture.

The Greek for rock is petra. It's where we get the word petrified from.

"I name you Petros and upon this Petra..."

If Matthew had written in American English rather than Greek this passage may have been, "I name you Rocky, and upon this rock..."

It seems to me that the Catholic reading of this passage is correct.

 

[Bill]

"Catholics believe the rock here is Peter. Protestant believe the rock here is the belief that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God"

Isn't this like comparing apples and oranges? Two completely different subjects.

Your statement comes across like this, that because we believe that Peter is The Rock. That we don't believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of the Living God. Which is a bit crazy.

Almost like talking to a Democrat. If you tell them that you're voting for Trump, you're automatically a racist. LOL

Yes Catholics believe that Peter was the one Jesus designated as the person who received the authority to start the church.

We also believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God.

And is John 1 States
"In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning, threw him all things came to be, not one thing had its beginning but through him. All that came to be had life in him and that life was the light of men. A light that shines in the dark, a light that Darkness could not overpower.
A man came sent by God his name was john. He came as a witness, as a witness to speak for the light so that everyone might believe through him, he was not the light only a witness to speak for the light.
The Word was the True Light, that enlightens all men and he was coming into the world. He was in the world that had its being through him, and the world did not know him. He came to his own domain and his own people did not accept him. But to all who did accept him, he gave power to become children of god. To all who believe in the name of him who was born not out of human stock or urge of the flesh or the will of man but of God himself.
The Word made flesh, he lived Among Us. And we saw his glory, the glory that is his as the Only Son of the Father full of grace and truth

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

"Catholics believe the rock here is Peter. Protestant believe the rock here is the belief that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God"

Isn't this like comparing apples and oranges? Two completely different subjects.

Your statement comes across like this, that because we believe that Peter is The Rock. That we don't believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of the Living God. Which is a bit crazy.

I think perhaps the problem is what we do with what is written.

For example, which came first, the Church (Peter being foundational to) or the Roman Catholic church?
After that day of outpouring we read of in Acts, was the Gospel taken abroad, even far from Rome and it's influence?

The Roman Catholic church has no valid claim of being The Church based on the account given of Jesus stating "upon this rock...".

To suggest such is misusing The Bible and Scripture.


Perhaps the rosary is something we don't understand? Or praying to Mary?

Regarding talking with those who are asleep, do we wake them first?

Please help me understand who the Apostle Paul would preach to, according to your claims?

Enough for now.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

@B-A-C

Greetings,

Would it be too far removed to ask about the Coptic 'faith' in relation to the thread topic?
Different Orthodox strains, etc.


Bless you ....><>