Roman Catholics and Protestants

[Christ4Ever]

may the Lord fill us with his love.

My brother in Christ, I did take what you said with humor, and I responded in a manner I thought you would understand as also been humor. I did set the LOL in front and in back of the statement.

If you're wondering what keeps me Catholic. It's the knowledge of what goes on at the altar with the sacrifice of the mass. There is no doubt in my mind that the bread and the wine changes into the body and blood of Jesus.

I have seen Heaven open up above the altar numerous times with the Holy Spirit coming down from heaven and I've seen God the Father above the Holy Spirit too. And every time I watch the angels as they prostrate themselves when the priest holds up the consecrated Bread and Wine or the Eucharist.

Dear Brother Bill,
I will receive it now as you meant it, which is with humor. Though I might say the humor is a bit dark for my taste.

I do not wonder what keeps you Catholic. For the same reason I do not wonder what keeps others who have chosen one denominational church they attend over another. For it is not the church that saves but Jesus alone.

What you have seen at Mass which you attribute to communion about transubstantiation must stay between you and Jesus, because I do not see it within the bounds of Scripture in its entirety. Too me the first communion could not have occurred as the RCC has it happening since then. For our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ had not yet been sacrificed and his request that it be done in remembrance is clear enough without the crucifying of His flesh, pouring out of blood over and over again which is what happens at each mass around the world if transubstantiation were to occur. If I were to believe this, then I would also have to believe that Jesus did not die once for our sins but continues to do so at every mass.

One last note on the subject. Though I could understand if what you have seen is truth, and I have plenty of reasons to want to believe you, and that being the case will accept your word for seeing/experiencing what you did. Just know that other churches do believe in the presence of the Lord during Communion, which would agree with what you saw, but not confirm the actual change that Catholics both in Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy believe happens with the breaking of bread and drinking of wine. Like I said this is between you and the Lord.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

Would it be too far removed to ask about the Coptic 'faith' in relation to the thread topic?
Different Orthodox strains, etc.

I could. It would make sense in another thread perhaps? Orthodox, Coptic, and maybe a handful of other Eastern denominations.

Of course one of the problems with a thread like this... is everyone's denomination was the first one, right?

Just know that other churches do believe in the presence of the Lord during Communion,

Indeed, the communion isn't primarily for the sake of other believers. It's communion with Jesus.

1Cor 11:23; For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;
1Cor 11:24; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
1Cor 11:25; In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

 

[B-A-C]

"Catholics believe the rock here is Peter. Protestant believe the rock here is the belief that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God"

Isn't this like comparing apples and oranges? Two completely different subjects.

Your statement comes across like this, that because we believe that Peter is The Rock. That we don't believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of the Living God. Which is a bit crazy.

Protestants also believe that Peter means "rock". It may be two different subjects, but it's all one single passage in the Bible.

Matt 16:13; Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
Matt 16:14; And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."

Those two verses frame the context of the next few verses. Jesus asks the disciples ( not just Peter ) who people say that He is? That is the crux of the entire conversation.

Matt 16:15; He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Matt 16:16; Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

The question changes slightly here. Instead of asking who do "the generic people who know about me" think I am, it becomes more personal... who do YOU say I am.
The people in verse 14 answered wrong. Simon Peter in verse 16 answered correctly.

Matt 16:17; And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Matt 16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

The fact that Jesus calls Peter the rock, isn't a problem.

Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

Jesus tells Peter, that flesh and blood ( a human ) did not reveal "this" to you. What is "this". This isn't Peter. Peter already knew his name was Peter. He was already called Peter at least 5 times
before this passage. ( These only the verses in Matthew, there are more if I include the other 3 gospels )

Matt 4:18; And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
Matt 8:14; And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Matt 10:2; Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Matt 14:28; And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
Matt 14:29; And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Matt 15:15; Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

So then, if Peter was already Peter.... what was the "this" that Jesus's Father in heaven revealed to him? The answer is in Matt 16:16. Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God.
You state that Catholics also believe this, and yes, I believe they do. But then they add that upon "this" ( rock ) is Peter. The rock isn't Peter. The rock is that Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus is using a play on words here. The rock is the unshakable belief that He is the annointed one who to come. The king of the Jews, The Messiah, the Savior of all mankind.

Peter is never called the head of the church anywhere in the Bible. It does say that Jesus is the head of the church in a number of places. ( I'm more than happy to post scripture if you like ).
Not only that, Peter is called the apostles to the Jews. Not the Gentiles, If anyone would have been the pope in Rome, it would have been Paul. The apostle to the Gentiles.
There is no record of Peter ever going to Rome in the Bible.

Gal 2:7; But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles )

 

[B-A-C]

It was mentioned that Jesus isn't the "rock", He is the cornerstone, and yes He is the cornerstone, but He is also the rock.

1Cor 10:3; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cor 10:4; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Deut 32:4; He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Luke 6:47; "Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like:
Luke 6:48; he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.

Someone has already mentioned Eph 2:20-22; about the cornerstone.

Psa 18:2; The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psa 28:1; A Psalm of David. To You, O LORD, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, For if You are silent to me, I will become like those who go down to the pit.
Psa 62:2; He only is my rock and my salvation, My stronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.

2Sam 22:2; He said, "The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
2Sam 22:3; My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.
2Sam 22:47; "The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be God, the rock of my salvation,

Rom 9:33; just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
1Pet 2:8; and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

Peter himself calls Jesus the rock. ( Rock of offense ).

 

[B-A-C]

Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21; far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22; And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,

Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

 

[Bill]

Protestants also believe that Peter means "rock". It may be two different subjects, but it's all one single passage in the Bible.

Matt 16:13; Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
Matt 16:14; And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."

Those two verses frame the context of the next few verses. Jesus asks the disciples ( not just Peter ) who people say that He is? That is the crux of the entire conversation.

Matt 16:15; He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Matt 16:16; Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

The question changes slightly here. Instead of asking who do "the generic people who know about me" think I am, it becomes more personal... who do YOU say I am.
The people in verse 14 answered wrong. Simon Peter in verse 16 answered correctly.

Matt 16:17; And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Matt 16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

The fact that Jesus calls Peter the rock, isn't a problem.

Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

Jesus tells Peter, that flesh and blood ( a human ) did not reveal "this" to you. What is "this". This isn't Peter. Peter already knew his name was Peter. He was already called Peter at least 5 times
before this passage. ( These only the verses in Matthew, there are more if I include the other 3 gospels )

Matt 4:18; And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
Matt 8:14; And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Matt 10:2; Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Matt 14:28; And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
Matt 14:29; And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Matt 15:15; Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

So then, if Peter was already Peter.... what was the "this" that Jesus's Father in heaven revealed to him? The answer is in Matt 16:16. Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God.
You state that Catholics also believe this, and yes, I believe they do. But then they add that upon "this" ( rock ) is Peter. The rock isn't Peter. The rock is that Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus is using a play on words here. The rock is the unshakable belief that He is the annointed one who to come. The king of the Jews, The Messiah, the Savior of all mankind.

Peter is never called the head of the church anywhere in the Bible. It does say that Jesus is the head of the church in a number of places. ( I'm more than happy to post scripture if you like ).
Not only that, Peter is called the apostles to the Jews. Not the Gentiles, If anyone would have been the pope in Rome, it would have been Paul. The apostle to the Gentiles.
There is no record of Peter ever going to Rome in the Bible.

Gal 2:7; But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles )

"There is no record of Peter ever going to Rome in the Bible."

You're right that it isn't in the Bible, but it is in recorded history, that Peter was taken to Rome and crucified upside down.

I just want to make something clear. I don't look at these little details as something that is going to make a person either be more Christian or not be more Christian.

Let me explain a little bit further, as there seems to be a lot of confusion on things that I have written already. When I say that the love of God needs to be in the center of your heart Above All Else. What I'm simply saying is that Jesus who is the love of God needs to be in the center of your heart.

I just erased a very long message. Because I know from experience that no one reads past the first two or three paragraphs. It's pretty obvious in my opinion based on the comments that have been sent to me by various people who pull out one single line or maybe a small paragraph and skip the rest of everything that I said

 

[Christ4Ever]

I just erased a very long message. Because I know from experience that no one reads past the first two or three paragraphs. It's pretty obvious in my opinion based on the comments that have been sent to me by various people who pull out one single line or maybe a small paragraph and skip the rest of everything that I said

Dear Brother,
That might be true in some cases, depending on the length of the post, but to say "no one" might be a bit of a generalization.
As far as pulling parts of what you have written and commenting on that alone. Not surprising. Usually that happens, when they disagree/agree with what they are quoting and responding to and have no comment on the rest. Not mentioning every single part of a post is generally not done. Not with what you post, or anyone else's for that matter! I can't imagine having to respond to every single thing in a post whether it interests me or not or whether I have issues with it or not. Especially if I have nothing to say concerning the unquoted parts! As a Moderator who reviews quite a bit of the threads put out there, having people writing and me having to review "quote" "I agree", "quote" "I agree", "quote" "I agree", "quote" "I agree" infinitum, might be a bit madding, to say the least!!! lol

By the way you do the same!!! I know I've typed some things as a member, that you have not commented on either! lol When that happens one normally assumes that the parts that are not referenced, have either nothing to do with what the person is interested in commenting on, doesn't want to address the subject (avoidance), or it has nothing to do with changing the context of what they are responding to. However, if the partial quote losses context because the rest is not included, then I could agree that skimming or skipping altogether what you have written has probably happened and shouldn't have been done, but normally that is not the case. Remember you can always bring them back to that. Let them know what they haven't included in their quote of your material was contextual and would have helped them in gaining understanding to what you had written.

Notice I am not talking to you about Peter in Rome etc. from the post I've quoted of yours. Not because I did not read the rest, but the subject of my post is not for the purpose of getting involved in that subject at this time. I was only interested in responding to your misperception and comments on what people review/comment on as it pertains to what you post.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Dave M]

I know the little things in God's word matters, and if I or anyone discount them I wold be very concerned and see many red flags.

I have a question to all on this thread, who has the final authority on all spiritual matters, in your life??

1. The word of God
2. Your denomination
3. Your own self, through feelings and what you believe
4. other ,,please explain

You see God gave us the word of God to protect us from our own self, and to protect us from all the evil spirits that come in disguise as angels of light. Many people are fooled by deceiving spirits because they follow there own heart and belief.
For me the last time I was in a catholic church I was so convicted and felt so sorry for the people that are being led away and perishing for lack of knowledge. I see so many traditions in the catholic church as direct violation against GOds word, maybe they are small things but I am pretty sure God cares about small things or he would not of put them in his word for his children.

 

[Dave M]

I guess I can see how you think this was about you, but it is about the catholic faith not you individually.

I agree and I go by what the bible says love is, not what I think it is. To love God is to obey him, this is what Jesus says not me. Jesus also says things like call no man father (in context to religous leaders) so going to catholic church and calling a priest father is not loving God it is disobeying him. Another example would the rosery beads, Gods word says do not do that. So you see we have to start with the foundation of love and that is willingly wanting to obey God, and the catholics for what ever reason do no no think they have to. The one that really bugs me is praying to mary as a mediator when we know Gods word says we have ONE mediator between God and us and that is Jesus.

So I ask any Catholic how is it loving God when we disobey his word?? this is not a personal attack on anyone, this is personal conviction from the Holy spirit that led me out of the catholic church. And the word of God is the same for everyone with no exceptions so it is meant for every ones protection and growth. Far to many people think there growth comes from feelings and experiences

​

1 Timothy 2:5​

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

John 14:15​

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.​

Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

​

Matthew 23:9​

And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

 

[Dave M]

Where is it in the scripture where it states not to use Rosary beads?

Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

 

[Twistie]

Good Evening!

I am feeling less unwell and my fever has finally gone! I am going to respond to what I have just seen and then just read back SO first of all:

Where is it in the scripture where it states not to use Rosary beads? It is highly impossible seen as they did not exist at the time of the Bibles creation. I love to use the rosary, however I do understand people have a huge misconception that people believe it is a tool to use to dail into God in some fashion, as well as many statements. My statement is this.
The Bible provides guidance on prayer, such as Jesus' teachings on the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13) and instructions to pray continually (1 Thessalonians 5:17). The use of the rosary is based on the Catholic tradition of honoring Mary and seeking her intercession. It allows people to focus on their prays, thoughts and mediate throughout each section. Ensuring that the mind does not drift off to other thoughts. It focuses on Our lord and sections of the bible itself and it has different mysterys every day to ensure the medication is not repeated.
If you are saying Catholics are not permitted to use a rosary to enhance their focus in prayer, does that mean Anglicans cannot listen to biblical music or hymns when they are to mediate and pray? Does that mean others cannot hold their cross as they pray about a loved one? I should note that I know non-catholics who also use the rosary because it has aided them to have better prayer time. Also, it is not obligated. Their are Catholics who do not use the rosary.

Your Father statement was interesting, I will try and explain:
The traditional title "Father" for priests was not meant to contradict what God said about addressing Him as 'the Father'. Instead, it is understood that priests act as spiritual fathers to their congregations. This concept is based on several passages in the Bible, including Paul's letter to the Corinthians where he refers to himself as their spiritual father: "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Corinthians 4:15).
In Catholic and Orthodox Christian traditions, priests are seen as spiritual leaders who guide their flock, provide counsel, and offer sacraments such as baptism, reconciliation, and the Eucharist. They are called "Father" as a sign of respect and recognition of their role in nurturing and shepherding the community's faith. It is essential to note that when addressing priests as "Father", it is not an equivalent to calling God "Father" but rather an honorific title given to a spiritual guide.

1 Corinthians 4:15: 15 Even though you have ten thousand tutors in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Holy Mary Mediator:
My friend helped me answer this one-The belief in Mary as a mediator or intercessor between humans and God is a practice that exists within Catholicism and some forms of Eastern Orthodoxy. The understanding is that while Jesus is considered the ultimate mediator between humanity and God, Mary holds a special role as the mother of Jesus and is highly revered within these traditions. It is believed that Mary's close relationship with Jesus and her unique position in salvation history make her an effective intercessor, someone who can bring the prayers and needs of people to Jesus. Please note that this belief does not diminish the central role of Jesus as the sole mediator between humanity and God. Instead, it is seen as an extension of the communion of saints, where individuals, including Mary, can be asked to pray for and intercede on behalf of others. In short, Catholics do not see Mary as they see Our Lord Jesus Christ... if that was what you where suggesting.

Just remember that different Christian traditions interpret and emphasize these beliefs differently, and individual worshipers may have varying degrees of personal devotion to Mary. Ultimately, the interpretation and practice surrounding Mary's role as an intercessor depend on one's particular religious tradition and personal beliefs. I would recommend reading ' True Devotion to Mary' by Saint Louis de Montfort, it is well written and helped me understand a point of view I never understood before.

Also Indeed, To love God is to Obey him and to fear him.

Growth can come from experience by learning and understanding. You need to listen, see and gain. It is not.. feelings unless you mean your being taken by the Holy sprit and that still is not growth, that is you acknowledging The Lords presence.


Have a nice evening!

Winter

ps: I am NOT BILL, I am also not Catholic, Anglican but wanting to become Catholic so I have been studying and researching for about a year, I will be practicing Catholic by January 2024

Sadly many like to complicate the Word thinking YH(God) needs am interpreter why so many are Lost and sit in a false light YH means what He says.
And says what He means...

I was brought up Roman catholic my dad adopted me about the age of three or four after my biological dad hung himself in prison now my dad who adopted me is don't believe in God many have an opinion on this.

I meant many awesome priest n nuns but I turned from doing what I was taught by man to do once I had learned from the Holy Spirit what it was I should not do.. the rosary more hail marys then the our Father
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well. Should your springs be scattered abroad, streams of water in the streets? Let them be for yourself alone, and not for strangers with you.

My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water

Christianity stemmed from Catholic

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.”

It's up to one to develop their own relationship with He who is Most Holy..

But you must not be called 'Teacher,' because you have only one Teacher, and you are all brothers and sisters together. And don't call any person on earth 'Father,' because you have one Father, who is in heaven.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.


Twistie

 

[Dave M]

Jesus isn't our primary mediator, Mary also is.

1 Timothy 2:5​

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[Dave M]

overns the Church. Our Lord Jesus is Our savior

Jesus isn't our primary mediator, Mary also is.
Incorrect: Jesus is the primary Mediator, people do pray to Holy Mary for intersession but this is different on every level imaginable, theirs a devotion to Mary, Not worship.

please back up with scripture

 

[Dave M]

my apologies for responding to fast, with out much thought, I will back off,

please provide scripture with your statements to back them up. Have a good night

 

[EverlastingWinter]

please back up with scripture

I cannot back up with scripture the fact Mary is not the primary mediator . I can find some information online for you if you would like?

 

[Christ4Ever]

ps: I am NOT BILL, I am also not Catholic, Anglican but wanting to become Catholic so I have been studying and researching for about a year, I will be practicing Catholic by January 2024

Dear Sister,
Since you opened the door, I must ask.

Why are you moving from the Anglican Church to the Catholic? Is it not the same Jesus whichever one you attend services with?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

This train, I fear... has fallen a ways off the tracks.

Someone mentioned earlier, that many of the differences between Protestants and Roman Catholics have no bearing on your salvation. I agree with that, at least about "some" things.

Here is one of those things. Jesus's family. Jesus had brother's and sisters. Some Catholics agree with this, but almost all Roman Catholics believe they weren't Mary's biological children.

Matt 12:46; While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.
Matt 12:47; Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Matt 13:55; "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Matt 13:56; "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"

Mark 3:31; Then His mother and His brothers *arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him.
Mark 3:32; A crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You."

Luke 8:19; And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
Luke 8:20; And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You."
Luke 8:21; But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

John 2:11; This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.
John 2:12; After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days.

Four different authors, in four different gospels mention that Jesus had brothers. Matthew 13 mentions sisters as well.

John 7:3; Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing.
John 7:4; "For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world."
John 7:5; For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

It seems that Jesus's brother did not believe Jesus was the Son of God. ( did they think that Mary was lying to them? )
But eventually some ( all? ) of them did.

Acts 1:14; These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

Mark 6:3; "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.
Mark 15:40; There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mark 15:47; Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses were looking on to see where He was laid.

Mark 16:1; When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

It seems the names of Jesus's sibling were James, Joses ( some Bibles say Joseph ), Judas ( some Bibles say Jude ), and Simon. Obviously Simon is not Simon Barjona ( son of Jona ) and Judas is not Judas Iscariot.
Matt 13:56 mention sisters. Plural, as in more than one sister. It appears one sister is named Salome.

Two of Jesus's brothers were disciples. James ( the less ) and Jude. This is a little confusing because there two disciples named James. James and John were the sons of Zebedee ( thunder ). James the less ( usually meaning James the younger )
was Jesus's brother. Judas ( not Iscariot ) was also Jesus's brother.

Gal 1:18; Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19; But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother.

Cephas ( Peter ) is not called the Lord's brother here. But James is.

The book of Jude starts off with this verse.
Jude 1:1; Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:

John 14:22; Judas (not Iscariot) *said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"

We know that Mary was the mother of some brothers named James and Jude.

Many Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin for all her life, and that Jesus's siblings were Joseph's children from a previous marriage.
If that were true, most of them would have been moved out by the time Jesus started his ministry.

 

[B-A-C]

Another one of these things that have no bearing on your salvation, was can Popes be married? Roman Catholics believe Peter was the first "Pope".

Matt 8:14; When Jesus came into Peter's home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever.
Mark 1:30; Now Simon's mother-in-law was lying sick with a fever; and immediately they *spoke to Jesus about her.
Luke 4:38; Then He got up and left the synagogue, and entered Simon's home. Now Simon's mother-in-law was suffering from a high fever, and they asked Him to help her.

Three different writers, in three different Gospels say Peter was married. He had a mother in law.

1Cor 9:5; Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
1Cor 9:6; Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working?

It appears Jesus's brother were likely married also. Paul also mentions that Peter ( Cephas ) has a wife.

For the most part this is trivial information, but it does bring into question the validity of some of the written traditions and history's that aren't in the Bible.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Also of note is the dates when different practices of the Roman Catholic church were introduced.
As with the Coptic branches.

Perhaps not anything to do with comparison with Protestant (as per the thread) but significant enough that the claim of original Church appears to have evolved over the last two thousand years. More recently addition of 'decades' and the rosary, etc.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

@B-A-C

Greeting Brother,

thread open again.
Has been trimmed of a lot of derailing material

thank you for your patience

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you and yours .....><>