Salvation

[strawberry]

What is so hard bout interpreting this. (Matthew 25:34-36)

Or this (John5:29)

Or this (Revelation 20:12-13)

Or this (James 2:14)

Or this (James 2:17)

I feel led to help you understand the (above) scriptures. Please understand that Jesus is not speaking about how one earns salvation. Jesus is speaking about the Holy Spirit and how when one is filled with the Holy Spirit, one doesn't just 'believe' (aka, faith); one exhibits "fruit of the spirit" (aka, Holy Spirit driven actions or works) (see Galatians 5:22, Fruit of the spirit). Again, we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, (Ephesians 2:8-9).

For one to acquire the fruit of the spirit (*lasting* love, joy, peace, faith, etc) that facilitates good works, one must be saved/spirit-filled. Jesus is sharing in those scriptures works that are the supernatural products of salvation and nurturing/growing our faith. Therefore, pursuing actions of love, joy (etc) via the natural mind will only produce precarious results compared to the lasting love that God experiences naturally and wants to be in us (Holy Spirit). That's the point Jesus is driving home in Matthew 25:34-36; actions that are a product of salvation; the Holy Spirit in us. Jesus's message in Matthew 25:34-36 is not salvation through works.

The fruit of the spirit and sharing God's unconditional love with people is how we help save people, one soul at a time.

 

[Kinjaffa]

I feel led to help you understand the (above) scriptures. Please understand that Jesus is not speaking about how one earns salvation. Jesus is speaking about the Holy Spirit and how when one is filled with the Holy Spirit, one doesn't just 'believe' (aka, faith); one exhibits "fruit of the spirit" (aka, Holy Spirit driven actions or works) (see Galatians 5:22, Fruit of the spirit). Again, we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, (Ephesians 2:8-9).

For one to acquire the fruit of the spirit (love, joy, peace, faith, etc) that facilitates good works, one must be saved/spirit-filled. Jesus is telling us in those scriptures that works are the supernatural products of salvation; not the means of earning it. Therefore, pursuing love and joy (etc) with the natural mind will only produce precarious results and one will be like the waves tossed at sea compared to the lasting love that God experiences naturally and wants to be in us (fruit of the spirit); again, facilitating good works. That's the point Jesus is driving home in Matthew 25:34-36. Sharing God's unconditional love with people is how we help save people, one soul at a time. Jesus's message in Matthew 25:34-36 is not salvation through works.

It is strange that you mention the word faith so many times in your interpretation of Yeshua's message. Yet that word nor the implication of that word is used by the Messiah in regards to the final judgement. Adding words that were not originally there is a dangerous thing to do.

If you believe that salvation is achieved by faith alone, then what do you say about all the people who have lived and died and that never knew Yeshua and His story? What about the people who are born in the farthest reaches of the Amazon, the jungles and the secret places of the earth? According to the "faith alone" theory, all those people are condemned to eternal suffering in hell simply because they never heard His message or had faith in Him. That would not be the actions of the loving God that I serve.

Clearly the answer to this dilemma came from Yeshua. All will be judged by their works.

 

[strawberry]

It is strange that you mention the word faith so many times in your interpretation of Yeshua's message. Yet that word nor the implication of that word is used by the Messiah in regards to the final judgement. Adding words that were not originally there is a dangerous thing to do.

If you believe that salvation is achieved by faith alone, then what do you say about all the people who have lived and died and that never knew Yeshua and His story? What about the people who are born in the farthest reaches of the Amazon, the jungles and the secret places of the earth? According to the "faith alone" theory, all those people are condemned to eternal suffering in hell simply because they never heard His message or had faith in Him. That would not be the actions of the loving God that I serve.

Clearly the answer to this dilemma came from Yeshua. All will be judged by their works.

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; not by works, but by the blood of Jesus dying on the cross for us. I refer you to the scripture Jiggyfly recently posted in this thread and defer to the Holy Spirit.

Good question about the Amazon. I'm not sure. I recall a scripture in the Bible about all hearing the truth, but I don't remember the context or verbiage, so I can't quote a scripture. Nonetheless, God loves the folks in the Amazon jungle just the same and he knows their hearts. I feel they will only be held accountable for what they know; like a new born baby.

:heart3:

 

[Kinjaffa]

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; not by works, but by the blood of Jesus dying on the cross for us. I refer you to the scripture Jiggyfly recently posted in this thread and defer to the Holy Spirit.

Good question about the Amazon. I'm not sure. I recall a scripture in the Bible about all hearing the truth, but I don't remember the context or verbiage, so I can't quote a scripture. Nonetheless, God loves the folks in the Amazon jungle just the same and he knows their hearts. I feel they will only be held accountable for what they know; like a new born baby.

:heart3:

Again, if "We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ", why does Yeshua state MANY times that he will judge us by our works as to whether we receive eternal life or eternal suffering? Why didn't the King say, "I will judge them according to their faith"?

 

[strawberry]

Again, if "We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ", why does Yeshua state MANY times that he will judge us by our works as to whether we receive eternal life or eternal suffering? Why didn't the King say, "I will judge them according to their faith"?

Good Works = Good Fruit (produced by salvation/the Holy Spirit in us)

As I said, Jesus is describing works/actions "fruit of the spirit" produced by the "Holy Spirit" and not by the human mind and not in an effort to earn salvation. (Matthew 7:16-7:25)

When someone is saved, their 'works' follow suit; meaning, they have the Holy Spirit living inside of them and produce fruit accordingly: love, joy, forgiveness, kindness, faith. Jesus said "Ye shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:16).

(Matthew 7:16-7:25): Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Without faith in Jesus, without the Holy Spirit, we are dead.) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (We cannot do good works on our own; we need salvation/faith in Jesus/Holy Spirit.) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
​

 

[Kinjaffa]

Works = Fruit (produced by the Holy Spirit)

As I said, Jesus is describing works/actions "fruit of the spirit" produced by the "Holy Spirit" and not by the human mind and not in an effort to earn salvation. (Matthew 7:16-7:25)

When someone is saved, their 'works' follow suite; meaning, they have the Holy Spirit living inside of them and produce fruit accordingly: love, joy, forgiveness, kindness, faith. Jesus said "Ye shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:16).

(Matthew 7:16-7:25):
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The Greek word used here for "works" here is "Dunamis" which means to do miracles. It is not the "works" you are thinking of. That is why almost every English translation besides KJV uses the word "miracles".

Other than that, I agree whole heartedly that the fruits are proof of works. Which is what Yeshua will judge us on at the final judgement (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20).

 

[strawberry]

and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The Greek word used here for "works" here is "Dunamis" which means to do miracles. It is not the "works" you are thinking of. That is why almost every English translation besides KJV uses the word "miracles".

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Even more so, I think when Jesus is talking about judging works, he's talking about the supernatural products of salvation (the Holy Spirit working through us brought to us by God's grace through our faith in Jesus Christ) versus our own pursuits of the natural mind (i.e., trying to do good on our own). Those that are saved, have the Holy Spirit.

"Not by might (literally meaning 'arms'), nor by power (physical activity), but by My Spirit (salvation/God working through us) saith the Lord," (Zechariah 4:6).
​

Our job as Christians is to submit to the Holy Spirit, but we are not perfect in this fleshly body and sometimes we fail at the submission part. That doesn't mean we're not saved or that we're damned to hell. I believe God perfects us as we try. Furthermore, I believe once saved (filled with the Holy Spirit) always saved, but that's for a different thread.

 

[Kinjaffa]

Strawberry, earlier you said that you are not sure what happens to those people who grow up in places like the Amazon/jungle and never get the chance to hear the story of Yeshua. Most Christians I have spoken to believe that these people are condemned to eternal punishment in hell. I have heard members of local Calvary Chapel churches as well as non denominational churches make this statement. To me it is absolute nonsense for people to believe that a loving God such as YHVH would condemn such people to eternal torment for something that is outside of their control. It seems that the answer to this dilemma is that Yeshua will judge these people by the works they did throughout their lives, just as He said He would in (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20). Again, if faith is required to receive eternal life, then how are people supposed to be saved if their living circumstances deny the acquisition of the knowledge in the bible and what the Son of God did for mankind?

 

[David777]

Back Kinjaffa.

I apologise for the delay, shopping and appointments.

So we know that Yeshua is God. We also know that Yeshua will establish a new covenant with all the nations see Isaiah 42:6-7. This new covenant will release those who dwell in darkness from the prison. This is fact.

Now, we also know that the law and sacrifices introduced to Israel thru Moses were a shadow of that which was to arrive later, check Jeremiah 31:34. Note: "I will put my laws in their hearts and i will write them on there minds". This is the shadow in the Old Testament which would arrive later namely in the messiah.

The sacrifices that the priests performed in Israel for Israel sin. Also, a shadow from Abraham, "Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together." Genesis 22:8.

"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! " John 1:29


Yes, a shadow again of the perfect sacrifice of the messiah for mankinds sin.

No doubt Kinjaffa you are aware of all this. This is important because it is through understanding that Yeshua accomplishes what we could not accomplish. That we are able to distinguish the difference between the Old Testament pattern. With the New Testament fulfilment by Yeshua.

So let's move even closer to answering your question aware of the messiah's real purpose.

Yeshua says in John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life.".

Further, John 3:16 "For God so loved the World that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Is this the doctrine of man, no these are the words of the messiah.

Thus, we understand that it is belief in Yeshua that is the fundamental requirement for salvation. The law is the predecessor of the Holy Spirit written in our hearts Kinjaffa. Do not confuse the redundant pattern of the Old Testament with the New Testament.

Law is for bad people, not to make them righteous, but to illustrate that they are not good.

That is why Israel could not obey the law, they were a stiff necked rebellious people like us.

You Kinjaffa have eternal citizenship if you believe in Yeshua, not through our own pathetic efforts at obedience to the Law.

Yeshua is the alpha and omega, all things hold together in Him, that is us.

The works that James mentions, are the outworking of our faith. Faith without works is dead.

How was my spelling Kinjaffa.

 

[strawberry]

@David777: But, but, what about the Holy Spirit? With belief comes the Holy Spirit, correct? BTW, loved that post!! I enjoyed reading it way too much!

@Kinjaffa: It's late where I am. I will reply tomorrow. Bless you all, GN, SD <3

 

[David777]

Good night sleep tight.

Dear Strawberry, I did mention the Holy Spirit,

"predecessor of the Holy Spirit written in our hearts".

You must have been tired.

 

[strawberry]

Dear Strawberry, I did mention the Holy Spirit,

"predecessor of the Holy Spirit written in our hearts".

You must have been tired.

Yes. :embarasse

I hope we will still be friends after all of this: you, me, Kinjaffa...
I've enjoyed the discussion. -hugs-

 

[David777]

Yo.

Friends for eternity Strawberry.

 

[David777]

Dear Kinjaffa.

Many people struggle with what you are struggling with Kinjaffa, the law.

Read this passage in John 15,


8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

9 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love."

10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

11 "These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.


13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
14 "You are My friends if you do what I command you".

John was very close to Jesus. John told us that Jesus gave us but one Royal Law, Love others as Yeshua has loved us. This is what appears to cause the difficulty. Jesus mentions the law, but He is not talking about the Mosaic Law is He. No, He is talking about what sums up all the law, Love. That is our outstanding debt to Yeshua.

 

[Kinjaffa]

I apologise for the delay, shopping and appointments.

So we know that Yeshua is God. We also know that Yeshua will establish a new covenant with all the nations see Isaiah 42:6-7. This new covenant will release those who dwell in darkness from the prison. This is fact.

Now, we also know that the law and sacrifices introduced to Israel thru Moses were a shadow of that which was to arrive later, check Jeremiah 31:34. Note: "I will put my laws in their hearts and i will write them on there minds". This is the shadow in the Old Testament which would arrive later namely in the messiah.

The sacrifices that the priests performed in Israel for Israel sin. Also, a shadow from Abraham, "Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together." Genesis 22:8.

"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! " John 1:29


Yes, a shadow again of the perfect sacrifice of the messiah for mankinds sin.

No doubt Kinjaffa you are aware of all this. This is important because it is through understanding that Yeshua accomplishes what we could not accomplish. That we are able to distinguish the difference between the Old Testament pattern. With the New Testament fulfilment by Yeshua.

So let's move even closer to answering your question aware of the messiah's real purpose.

Yeshua says in John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life.".

Further, John 3:16 "For God so loved the World that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Is this the doctrine of man, no these are the words of the messiah.

Thus, we understand that it is belief in Yeshua that is the fundamental requirement for salvation. The law is the predecessor of the Holy Spirit written in our hearts Kinjaffa. Do not confuse the redundant pattern of the Old Testament with the New Testament.

Law is for bad people, not to make them righteous, but to illustrate that they are not good.

That is why Israel could not obey the law, they were a stiff necked rebellious people like us.

You Kinjaffa have eternal citizenship if you believe in Yeshua, not through our own pathetic efforts at obedience to the Law.

Yeshua is the alpha and omega, all things hold together in Him, that is us.

The works that James mentions, are the outworking of our faith. Faith without works is dead.

How was my spelling Kinjaffa.

I agree with James when he said many times that "Faith without works is dead." This destroys your argument that Faith alone will grant eternal life. Because in that argument, if your faith is dead, then you will not experience eternal life.

When Yeshua told us to believe in Him, He is requiring an act of obedience. Obedience to his words. Words which CLEARLY state that we must do works. If this was not true, He would not have commanded us to love one another.

David, according to your argument, people who are born in the secret places of the world are condemned to eternal hell. Simply because of the geographic place of their birth, they were never exposed to the story of Christ. Since you say that one must have "faith in Jesus Christ" in order to experience life, how are these people supposed to do so? How do you sleep at night?!?!?! Do you not realize that Yeshua will do EXACTLY what He said He would do? He will judge EVERYONE, all peoples, all nations by their WORKS!!! Read (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20).

 

[David777]

Dear Kinjaffa.

Your reply stated,

"David, according to your argument, people who are born in the secret places of the world are condemned to eternal hell. Simply because of the geographic place of their birth, they were never exposed to the story of Christ. Since you say that one must have "faith in Jesus Christ" in order to experience life, how are these people supposed to do so? How do you sleep at night?!?!?! Do you not realize that Yeshua will do EXACTLY what He said He would do? He will judge EVERYONE, all peoples, all nations by their WORKS!!! Read (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20)."

I sleep the same as you do Kinjaffa. Yeshua has absolute authority and control of the destiny of all people. It is not my Gospel that I carry Kinjaffa, it is Yeshua's Gospel that I believe in.

Of course Yeshua judges our behaviour Kinjaffa. This behaviour is dictated by what we believe. If you believe in the words of Yeshua then you will of course forgive others. But, the Truth remains "that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Surely Kinjaffa you noticed when ever Jesus healed He usually commented on the persons faith. Faith is always necessary.

These are the true words of the messiah. Yeshua has told us.

What happens to people in remote places. I would assume that Yeshua deals with these people the same as He would deal with those who were deceased before the messiah's sacrifice. These are the people Yeshua created, they are His. They are not my people Kinjaffa, my faith is that Yeshua is Love.

Faith triggers the actions that people perform, not vica-versa.

 

[strawberry]

This destroys your argument that Faith alone will grant eternal life. Because in that argument, if your faith is dead, then you will not experience eternal life.

No, we are both saying faith and works. However, I'm talking more in terms of a specific order of things (i.e., cause and effect, good works being the effect of faith/salvation). Here's a model of what I've been trying to communicate ,
in chronological order of the arrows:

(Holy Spirit Required):

Faith --> Salvation --> Good Works

(Salvation being the catalyst for Good Works.)

...One must be saved (spirit-filled) before they are capable of doing any good works. Someone who is not saved, might attempt good works (via head knowledge [or faith in themselves or something else]), but that is insufficient and the product is not the same (no matter how well intended). To truly do the kinds of good works that Yeshua describes in Matthew 25:35, one must already be saved and filled with God's love. In other words, I'm saying faith in Yeshua, salvation, is the catalyst for all good works. (In this first model, we can easily judge the tree by its fruit. Only the spirit-filled individual bears good fruit.)

Kinjaffa, I'm with you on your thoughts about those living in the Amazon that may never hear the truth; I have a hard time believing God will send them to hell. God is truly good. I think there is a scripture somewhere that all will hear the truth, but if not, have faith that God will be merciful.

Feedback welcome.
​

Here's what I understood you to communicate:

(Holy Spirit Optional):

[Faith -->] Good Works --> Salvation

(Good Works being the catalyst for Salvation.)

...In this model, the Holy Spirit is optional and may dwell in an individual where the outcome doesn't lead to salvation. This model takes into consideration that one might live in the Amazon jungle and never hear God's word; thus, never receive the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Holy Spirit doesn't have much influence on ones decisions to do good nor does it influence Yeshua's judgement; in other words, good works may come from head knowledge. The wellspring is irrelevant, since the outcome will be the same: if one does good works, their reward is salvation.

Please, correct me if I misunderstood you.
​

 

[Kinjaffa]

Your reply stated,

"David, according to your argument, people who are born in the secret places of the world are condemned to eternal hell. Simply because of the geographic place of their birth, they were never exposed to the story of Christ. Since you say that one must have "faith in Jesus Christ" in order to experience life, how are these people supposed to do so? How do you sleep at night?!?!?! Do you not realize that Yeshua will do EXACTLY what He said He would do? He will judge EVERYONE, all peoples, all nations by their WORKS!!! Read (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20)."

I sleep the same as you do Kinjaffa. Yeshua has absolute authority and control of the destiny of all people. It is not my Gospel that I carry Kinjaffa, it is Yeshua's Gospel that I believe in.

Of course Yeshua judges our behaviour Kinjaffa. This behaviour is dictated by what we believe. If you believe in the words of Yeshua then you will of course forgive others. But, the Truth remains "that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Surely Kinjaffa you noticed when ever Jesus healed He usually commented on the persons faith. Faith is always necessary.

These are the true words of the messiah. Yeshua has told us.

What happens to people in remote places. I would assume that Yeshua deals with these people the same as He would deal with those who were deceased before the messiah's sacrifice. These are the people Yeshua created, they are His. They are not my people Kinjaffa, my faith is that Yeshua is Love.

Faith triggers the actions that people perform, not vica-versa.

You are a professional at dodging questions. I will go ahead and be nice and give you the answer.

People who are born, live and die in remote places, never hearing the testimony of Christ will be judged by their works. Just as we are all going to be judged by our works at the final judgement. Read (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20) to understand this.

If you believe that salvation is only achieved through faith, then those people in the remote places were condemned to eternal suffering from the get-go. I've got news for you, that would not be the actions of the loving God that I serve, YHVH. He is holy, and perfect. Full of love and mercy. To believe that He would condemn these remote and uninformed people to eternity in hell simply because they never knew that they needed to have faith to experience eternal life is garbage and unethical.

 

[Kinjaffa]

No, we are both saying faith and works. However, I'm talking more in terms of a specific order of things (i.e., cause and effect, good works being the effect of faith/salvation). Here's a model of what I've been trying to communicate ,
in chronological order of the arrows:

(Holy Spirit Required):

Faith --> Salvation --> Good Works

(Salvation being the catalyst for Good Works.)

...One must be saved (spirit-filled) before they are capable of doing any good works. Someone who is not saved, might attempt good works (via head knowledge [or faith in themselves or something else]), but that is insufficient and the product is not the same (no matter how well intended). To truly do the kinds of good works that Yeshua describes in Matthew 25:35, one must already be saved and filled with God's love. In other words, I'm saying faith in Yeshua, salvation, is the catalyst for all good works. (In this first model, we can easily judge the tree by its fruit. Only the spirit-filled individual bears good fruit.)

Kinjaffa, I'm with you on your thoughts about those living in the Amazon that may never hear the truth; I have a hard time believing God will send them to hell. God is truly good. I think there is a scripture somewhere that all will hear the truth, but if not, have faith that God will be merciful.

Feedback welcome.
​

Here's what I understood you to communicate:

(Holy Spirit Optional):

[Faith -->] Good Works --> Salvation

(Good Works being the catalyst for Salvation.)

...In this model, the Holy Spirit is optional and may dwell in an individual where the outcome doesn't lead to salvation. This model takes into consideration that one might live in the Amazon jungle and never hear God's word; thus, never receive the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Holy Spirit doesn't have much influence on ones decisions to do good nor does it influence Yeshua's judgement; in other words, good works may come from head knowledge. The wellspring is irrelevant, since the outcome will be the same: if one does good works, their reward is salvation.

Please, correct me if I misunderstood you.
​

"...One must be saved (spirit-filled) before they are capable of doing any good works." ----- This is simply not true. My great grandfather is 98 years old and the nicest person I have ever known. If anyone in my family needs something, they only have to ask and he will help, even from his wheel chair. Although he has done great works for nearly a full century, he is a devout atheist and therefore not "spirit-filled".

Regarding the people born in remote places like the Amazon, you said, "I have a hard time believing God will send them to hell." ------- Why don't you believe that God will send these people to hell? Didn't you tell me that you must have faith in Christ in order to escape that punishment? These people clearly don't have faith in Christ since they don't even know who He is. My advice is to read (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20) to see how the King will judge people, whether they go to heaven or hell.

 

[David777]

Hello again Kinjaffa.

You stated:

"You are a professional at dodging questions. I will go ahead and be nice and give you the answer.

People who are born, live and die in remote places, never hearing the testimony of Christ will be judged by their works. Just as we are all going to be judged by our works at the final judgement. Read (Matthew 25)(John 5)(Revelation 20) to understand this.

If you believe that salvation is only achieved through faith, then those people in the remote places were condemned to eternal suffering from the get-go. I've got news for you, that would not be the actions of the loving God that I serve, YHVH. He is holy, and perfect. Full of love and mercy. To believe that He would condemn these remote and uninformed people to eternity in hell simply because they never knew that they needed to have faith to experience eternal life is garbage and unethical. "

Kinjaffa, I did not avoid the question, I answered the question.
You think that I avoided the question. You think that a person is saved by what actions they perform. Why, because you quoted from James, therefore Kinjaffa must be correct.

Did not Yeshua state that no one is good except the Father in Heaven. Yes, He did state this, our nature is corrupt Kinjaffa.
No person can be good enough to pass the perfect test that Yeshua requires us to pass Kinjaffa. That is why we trust Yeshua to get us through. Yeshua stands between His Father and us.

Abraham was not justified by what he did. Abraham believed Yeshua and he was justified, kinjaffa. So was Moses, why? Because they believed what they were told. It is the simple way we operate Kinjaffa. Faith is first, then we act. Scripture does say our works are as filthy rags to Yeshua. We could never stand before Yeshua because of what we have done. Yeshua would destroy us, we are not perfect just forgiven.