Should Christians be Pacifist?

[MedicBravo]

I don't understand the point of setting a standard or being an example if that standard is not to be followed?

Of course Jesus encountered opposition and evil in his daily ministry on earth. He responded to it not by forceful resistance but in overcoming evil with good.

He lived out what he taught: do not resist an evildoer.

Part of the great comission to the disciples is to "teach them [all nations] to obey everything I have commanded you.

Jesus did what none of us could ever do.
Let's try something else.
Did Adam, Eve, or Jesus ever take a dump?
Yes. Can you prove it by your standards or most people's flawed standards? No.
Adam and Eve were 100% human; be it closer to God than anyone else but still needed water and food with the healthiest, most pure body a human can save still needed to eliminate waste.
Jesus as fully human and fully God needed sleep, food, water (hydration), clothing, etc.
You can prove He slept at least once on a boat but only through eye-witness testimony.

I'll state it again:
A slap is one thing. Not life-threatening. If the slaps continued and got harder turning into fists then it's no longer an insult. It is an attackof which on the face can cause loss of an eye. Back then, losing an eye was far more serious than it is today. In fact, maiming someone by an eye, ear, hand, or foot would require a hefty payment by the other person and righteously so from the courts decision. Some form of this existst today in many countries.

Persecution is one thing.
What the Muslims did to cause Catholics to start the Crusades to stop them is another. Here, the Catholics are doing their duty and command from God to stop evil and protect Christians from them.

I could list a number of "What if..." examples.
You, nor anyone, else can NOT argue one verse. That by defintion is cherry picking.
Jesus was also ensuring prophesy. As human, we was very scared of His upcoming torture and death "Pass this cup from me." remember?
Purposefully dying for Jesus makes you or someone else no better than one who is outnumbered, taken from one's home or wherever and executed for being a Christian.

 

[Hekuran]

Jesus did what none of us could ever do.
Let's try something else.
Did Adam, Eve, or Jesus ever take a dump?
Yes. Can you prove it by your standards or most people's flawed standards? No.
Adam and Eve were 100% human; be it closer to God than anyone else but still needed water and food with the healthiest, most pure body a human can save still needed to eliminate waste.
Jesus as fully human and fully God needed sleep, food, water (hydration), clothing, etc.
You can prove He slept at least once on a boat but only through eye-witness testimony.

I'll state it again:
A slap is one thing. Not life-threatening. If the slaps continued and got harder turning into fists then it's no longer an insult. It is an attackof which on the face can cause loss of an eye. Back then, losing an eye was far more serious than it is today. In fact, maiming someone by an eye, ear, hand, or foot would require a hefty payment by the other person and righteously so from the courts decision. Some form of this existst today in many countries.

Persecution is one thing.
What the Muslims did to cause Catholics to start the Crusades to stop them is another. Here, the Catholics are doing their duty and command from God to stop evil and protect Christians from them.

I could list a number of "What if..." examples.
You, nor anyone, else can NOT argue one verse. That by defintion is cherry picking.
Jesus was also ensuring prophesy. As human, we was very scared of His upcoming torture and death "Pass this cup from me." remember?
Purposefully dying for Jesus makes you or someone else no better than one who is outnumbered, taken from one's home or wherever and executed for being a Christian.

I have literally no idea what you are arguing for here. I've not asked for proof of anything.

I'm not arguing from one verse either. The message of non-violent response to evil is consistent through the words of Jesus, Paul and Peter. It's also prominent in the book of Revelation.

 

[Bill Taylor]

It remains true that you are reading into the text things that are not there.

It is a matter of fact, not of opinion, that Paul makes no mention of war in Romans 12, and he certainly does not make a justification for war.

You are falsely accusing me of giving you my opinion. When I surrendered my will and pride I completely surrendered and was indwelt by Ruah, The Helper Yashua promised, do you not know Him?

 

[Bill Taylor]

You're throwing out some pretty odd accusations here: I'm a false teacher, I believe you're destined for hellfire, I'm giving suicidal advice to children, and finally I am putting Paul's authority above God.

None of these is remotely true.

If you want to discuss issues with me, let's discuss based on the things I have actually said. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me; knocking down this series of wild speculations about me is a bit tiresome.

You are disagreeing with Ruah, not me. The scriptures, Yahovah and, Yashua never disagree but you are.

 

[Hekuran]

You are disagreeing with Ruah, not me. The scriptures, Yahovah and, Yashua never disagree but you are.

What you have written contains basic factual errors. You seem to be claiming that your words are directly guided by the Holy Spirit.

There are two logical options here.

First option is that the Holy Spirit has made a mistake.

Second logical option is that you are not guided by the Spirit as accurately as you believe.

Logical option two is more likely, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brethren,
I do believe we have moved away from the subject at hand into another area that very little to do with Pacifism. So, it would do us well to move on to other subjects/threads.
We can agree to disagree, as it pertains to Pacifism, and yet though I hope to never be having to be in a situation whereby force has to be applied, I trust that my God can take care of whatever situation arises as well and that He will do so. Which I am sure all can agree with. No one goes out seeking to use force upon others, or to be in situations that would call for it. Let us hope and pray that we are not faced with such situations in the future, but if so, that the Holy Spirit will guide us to respond as He would want us to.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Bill Taylor]

What you have written contains basic factual errors. You seem to be claiming that your words are directly guided by the Holy Spirit.

There are two logical options here.

First option is that the Holy Spirit has made a mistake.

Second logical option is that you are not guided by the Spirit as accurately as you believe.

Logical option two is more likely, wouldn't you agree?

If you were relying on the guidence that is rewarded as a result of complete submission we might have differing slants on this item of faith but they would not grind against one another.

I know you are an educated man, a man of letters possibly. I, on the other hand, am a self-taught man, having grown up changing schools at least twice a year with a transcript that looks pitiful. My mother did thirteen turns in prison by the time I was 18. When I tested the recruiter had my transcript and required I pass an IQ Test with a score of 100 or better to go to Aviation School at Ft. Rucker. I scored 130 on that and took my GED before Basic Combat Training.

During those eight years I continued my education through Mail Courses, except for the thirty months when I did those three tours when I earned the five Hash Marks on my right arm. I am not given to the Leftest Instruction found on the Holy Scriptures found in most institutions today.

I feel (unresearched) the Left Leaning are the ones that divided the Scriptures into verses, that in truth do not exist. Without the later imposed chapters and verses these letters all flow together and both Major and Minor Contexts just pop out for us to see.

There is nothing wrong with the scriptures you use. With better than 34 years and no less than 16, maybe 17 reads of the Bible, I had to resolve the conflict any Lost Person sees with your verses and the verses that call on us to defend our nation, home, wives, and children unto death. Several of us have posted many more verses calling us to violent action.

At some point, we had to reconcile all of these verses into meaning one thing or another. The correct answer does not come from a Proph. in college, nor does it come from a Pastor that is leaning on worldly teaching.

It might be worth noting on your note-pad that you are trying to convince Teachers of the Gospel that the Holy Spirit dwelling in us is a liar. NOPE!

 

[Bill Taylor]

What you have written contains basic factual errors. You seem to be claiming that your words are directly guided by the Holy Spirit.

There are two logical options here.

First option is that the Holy Spirit has made a mistake.

Second logical option is that you are not guided by the Spirit as accurately as you believe.

Logical option two is more likely, wouldn't you agree?

Ruah never makes mistakes and no man on this Earth despises combat more than he who has watched the life drain from the eye of the man he just killed in close-quarter combat. But I hate evil for my loved ones than I despise the evil I know that lives on me.

Take away the presence and guidance of Ruah and I am worth less than a used spitball. I do as Ruah leads.

 

[Hekuran]

Ruah never makes mistakes and no man on this Earth despises combat more than he who has watched the life drain from the eye of the man he just killed in close-quarter combat. But I hate evil for my loved ones than I despise the evil I know that lives on me.

Take away the presence and guidance of Ruah and I am worth less than a used spitball. I do as Ruah leads.

As @Christ4Ever has gently reminded us, the conversation is drifting. And I think we are long beyond the point of productive discussion.

 

[Bill Taylor]

As @Christ4Ever has gently reminded us, the conversation is drifting. And I think we are long beyond the point of productive discussion.

I would have ended replies to this thread some time ago, were I able.

 

[Br. Bear]

Closed for a while


Post in Peace