Should women be allowed to preach in churches?

[Bob Carabbio]

That's ok Paul...Keeping the lies out of the church was not your job...Preaching the truth was your job.

Don't be silly!! BOTH things were Paul's job. We only need to understand WHY he did what he did, and a little study of religious history gives the clue.

 

[Sue D.]

@Bob Carabbio -- I happen To be a woman as you can tell by my name. No reason for a woman To Feel 'muzzled' -- there are plenty of opportunities for 'us' to teach women's Bible studies or a young woman's Sunday School class.

God's Word is pretty straight forward -- Paul was told by the Holy Spirit what to write -- 1 Timothy 3 -- "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work......" The passage starts out Assuming that it's the men being talked to and to avoid any confusion upon reading , one of the first statements is to be 'the husband of one wife". That means being a man. Not a woman.

Knowing the history / background never hurts any. It can be interesting. But a person doesn't have to be a religious history person to be able to read Scripture and understand it. Especially something as basic as which gender is to stand behind a pulpit to preach.

Society has this 'thing' about women can do just as good a job as the men can. Which is probably true in many instances. But 'we' Are given those statements in Timothy and Titus regarding women Not preaching -- men are to do that.
And there Is also that verse that says to Not put a woman in a position where she could be in a position of authority over a man or men. To prevent problems.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Don't be silly!! BOTH things were Paul's job. We only need to understand WHY he did what he did, and a little study of religious history gives the clue.

I won't argue that Bob. When dealing with false teachers, Paul showed us how it was to be done...In essence...Keep teaching the t ruth. The false ones will be shown to be false and those who choose to follow the false ones will answer for why they followed the liar. THAT is what Paul taught.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I won't argue that Bob. When dealing with false teachers, Paul showed us how it was to be done...In essence...Keep teaching the t ruth. The false ones will be shown to be false and those who choose to follow the false ones will answer for why they followed the liar. THAT is what Paul taught.

Don't get me wrong Bob...I strongly believe women are called to preach and to teach just like men are...We CAN agree there.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

@Admon Mikha'el -- to be more specific. 1 Timothy 3:1-2 "This is a faithful saying. If a man desires the position of a bishop , he desires a good work. vs 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach, "

My point is...a guideline is NOT a rule, or a law. Its merely a suggestion To suggest that Paul said to Timothy "I do not permit woment to teach or preach?
1 Timothy 2:11-12
Then Paul answering the same question in 1 Corinthians 14:34-40 His answer would make him a big hippocrite, telling Timothy one thing and then the Corinthian folks something else...unless...unless We are missing something. Like Context.....

We tend to take the verse before, and the verse after, the selected verse, as being the context, but oftentimes its the chapter before and possibly the chapter after that provides context...Again, as our friend Bitch5 says...Mistranslation?

 

[PloughBoy]

I am old enough to know "women" and men, do what ever they want to do, in this world in their churches not matter what God or His Word has said in the name of Jesus name. And since the Creation of This world, no matter what God says! He will let them do whatsoever they may do, so man is ussless and it is a waste-less argument! Unti;l GODs comes Back with a "Iron Iron"!

If God wanted Woman to Preach, It would be more plainly, If He would have made a "Woman from Among "The 12 Apostles" who was Given To Jesus by His FAther "The LORD GOD Almight"! We would not have this debate today, So for now, let God be the Judge of The Quick and the dead who are False teachers of "The Sons of The Living GOD". They wiil receive they Just reward.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

My point is...a guideline is NOT a rule, or a law. Its merely a suggestion To suggest that Paul said to Timothy "I do not permit woment to teach or preach?
1 Timothy 2:11-12
Then Paul answering the same question in 1 Corinthians 14:34-40 His answer would make him a big hippocrite, telling Timothy one thing and then the Corinthian folks something else...unless...unless We are missing something. Like Context.....

We tend to take the verse before, and the verse after, the selected verse, as being the context, but oftentimes its the chapter before and possibly the chapter after that provides context...Again, as our friend Bitch5 says...Mistranslation?

Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.


a. Let a woman learn in silence: This unfortunate translation has led some to believe that it is forbidden for women to even speak in church meetings. Paul uses the same word translated silence in 1 Timothy 2:2, and it is translated peaceable there. The idea is without contention instead of total silence.


i. In other places in the New Testament, even in the writings of Paul, women are specifically mentioned as praying and speaking in the church (1 Corinthians 11:5). To learn in silence has the idea of women receiving the teaching of the men God has chosen to lead in the church, with submission instead of contention.


ii. Submission is the principle; to learn in silence describes the application of the principle.


iii. Some have said the reason for this is because in these ancient cultures (as well as some present-day cultures), men and women sat in separate sections. The thought is that women interrupted the church service by shouting questions and comments to their husbands during the service. Clarke expresses this idea: “It was lawful for men in public assemblies to ask questions, or even interrupt the speaker when there was any matter in his speech which they did not understand; but this liberty was not granted to women.”


b. With all submission: The word for submission here literally means, “To be under in rank.” It has to do with

I am old enough to know "women" and men, do what ever they want to do, in this world in their churches not matter what God or His Word has said in the name of Jesus name. And since the Creation of This world, no matter what God says! He will let them do whatsoever they may do, so man is ussless and it is a waste-less argument! Unti;l GODs comes Back with a "Iron Iron"!

If God wanted Woman to Preach, It would be more plainly, If He would have made a "Woman from Among "The 12 Apostles" who was Given To Jesus by His FAther "The LORD GOD Almight"! We would not have this debate today, So for now, let God be the Judge of The Quick and the dead who are False teachers of "The Sons of The Living GOD". They wiil receive they Just reward.

Mens reasoning instead of Gods Word? Are you smarter than God? You presume to speak for God but you don't even know His Word....Please don't insult us that way

 

[PloughBoy]

Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.


a. Let a woman learn in silence: This unfortunate translation has led some to believe that it is forbidden for women to even speak in church meetings. Paul uses the same word translated silence in 1 Timothy 2:2, and it is translated peaceable there. The idea is without contention instead of total silence.


i. In other places in the New Testament, even in the writings of Paul, women are specifically mentioned as praying and speaking in the church (1 Corinthians 11:5). To learn in silence has the idea of women receiving the teaching of the men God has chosen to lead in the church, with submission instead of contention.


ii. Submission is the principle; to learn in silence describes the application of the principle.


iii. Some have said the reason for this is because in these ancient cultures (as well as some present-day cultures), men and women sat in separate sections. The thought is that women interrupted the church service by shouting questions and comments to their husbands during the service. Clarke expresses this idea: “It was lawful for men in public assemblies to ask questions, or even interrupt the speaker when there was any matter in his speech which they did not understand; but this liberty was not granted to women.”


b. With all submission: The word for submission here literally means, “To be under in rank.” It has to do with

Mens reasoning instead of Gods Word? Are you smarter than God? You presume to speak for God but you don't even know His Word....Please don't insult us that way

In other words either i am speaking according to want is witten or I am a emeny of God's truth! a servant of the evil one? for you cannot serve the devil and God! Or sit at the table of demons. You cannot spilt the fence with God, you are either one or the other, so i do perceive i am label a "false teacher" of the faith, by your words.

these are you words: 'You presume to speak for God but you don't even know His Word....Please don't insult us that way" concerning me!
"I will not recant" in Post 46. What i had said.
And I will not say anything "evil" against you or consider you as a "ungodly' person and that you gives "ungodly conusell" To the "Saints of The Living God'. In which you have declared i have.

But since you have judge me is such matters, I consider it be place in the Hands of "My Father who is in Heaven" who have "Gifted" me into many Things pertaining to this life, Who you have label me as False and In error and Have perclaim I Have, "Insulted The Holy Spirt of GOD that is in HIS SONS, and THe Christ Jesus whom they are abiding in, and "Anointed by "Holy Spirit" who is The Spirit of The Living God" than dwells in them forever by Decree of "The TETRAGRAMMATON"!

I will not recant.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

In other words either i am speaking according to want is witter or I am a emeny of God's truth! a servant of the evil one? for you canot serve the devil and God! Or sit at the table of demons. You cannot spilt the fence with God, you are either one or the other, so i do perceive i am label a "false teacher" of the faith, by your words.

these are you words: 'You presume to speak for God but you don't even know His Word....Please don't insult us that way" concerning me!
"I will not recant" in Post 46. What i had said.
And I will not say anything "evil" against you or consider you as a "ungodly' person and that you gives "ungodly conusell" To the "Saints of The Living God'. In which you have declared i have.

But since you have judge me is such matters, I consider it be place in the Hands of "My Father who is in Heaven" who have "Gifted" me into many Things pertaining to this life, Who you have label me as False and In error and Have perclaim I Have, "Insulted The Holy Spirt of GOD that is in HIS SONS, and THe Christ Jesus whom they are abiding in, and "Anointed by "Holy Spirit" who is The Spirit of The Living God" than dwells in them forever by Decree of "The TETRAGRAMMATON"!

I will not recant.

Of course! That is your covenant right! Still I choose God's Word over yours. That's MY covenat right

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

According to God's Word, women have the right, the responsiblily to preach the good Word to everybody around them, exactly the same as men. As I pointed out, WOMEN were the first called to carry the good news.

 

[PloughBoy]

Of course! That is your covenant right! Still I choose God's Word over yours. That's MY covenat right

call it what you please!

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

call it what you please!

Let me ask you something....If one does not believe ALL of God's Word, the way it is written, is he/ she a believer at all? My reasoning is...If God is wrong,or lying on one point, how can I trust anything else He says?

 

[PloughBoy]

According to God's Word, women have the right, the responsiblily to preach the good Word to everybody around them, exactly the same as men. As I pointed out, WOMEN were the first called to carry the good news.

So was the little kids in the Market place!

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

So was the little kids in the Market place!

I'm sorry...This is not one of my good days...What kids in what marketplace?

 

[PloughBoy]

Now , i do like to have fun! I get into lot of trouble on here! I do perceive you next! I going to sit back and watch! LOL! Like :"The Watchman on The Wall"

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Now , i do like to have fun! I get into lot of trouble on here! I do perceive you next! I going to sit back and watch! LOL! Like :"The Watchman on The Wall"

Enjoy...I'm outta here

 

[PloughBoy]

Kill the Shepherd and the sheep will scatter, Shoot the Chief and the braves will ride off, And wolves hunts in Packs! They have Alpha males and Alpha Females! step out in front of the Pack if you want too!

 

[Sue D.]

Maybe I need to rephrase -- God's Word says and God's Word is to be our authority -- 1 Timothy 3 -- A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, , temporate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable able to teach;. --- the key here is the 'husband'.

And each born again believer is to be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. And That is different than being behind a pulpit preaching. Reost #50.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Maybe I need to rephrase -- God's Word says and God's Word is to be our authority -- 1 Timothy 3 -- A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, , temporate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable able to teach;. --- the key here is the 'husband'.

And each born again believer is to be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. And That is different than being behind a pulpit preaching. Reost #50.

It might be good to dig into that Sue...Here, put the Hebrew on the keywords ... It is necessary, therefore, for the congregational Mashgiach Ruchani to be without reproach, ba’al isha echat (a one woman man/master, see OJB p.258, 1Sm 2:22-25, i.e., kedushah and tahorah characterized by heterosexuality, exclusivity, and fidelity), drug-free and clear-headed, a man of seichel, practiced in derech eretz and hachnosas orchim (hospitality), skillful as a rabbinic moreh (yeshiva teacher),

Even learned translators can get lazy... What is God really trying to tell us? It seems that it was somewhat obfuscated

 

[Sue D.]

It might be good to dig into that Sue...Here, put the Hebrew on the keywords ... It is necessary, therefore, for the congregational Mashgiach Ruchani to be without reproach, ba’al isha echat (a one woman man/master, see OJB p.258, 1Sm 2:22-25, i.e., kedushah and tahorah characterized by heterosexuality, exclusivity, and fidelity), drug-free and clear-headed, a man of seichel, practiced in derech eretz and hachnosas orchim (hospitality), skillful as a rabbinic moreh (yeshiva teacher),

Even learned translators can get lazy... What is God really trying to tell us? It seems that it was somewhat obfuscated

Well -- other than that being Way over my head.

A man is meant to be the natural leader -- both of the family -- church -- Jesus Christ was God incarnate. He came into this world as a man. Not a woman. God uses both men and women / boys and girls / teens, etc. to share God's Word with others. But the pulpit ministry is meant for men only. It feels like the intended order. Not emotional feelings but the internal 'gut' feeling.

the term 'obfuscated' -- I've heard that before but will look up it's meaning again. "making a message hard to understand"

At Bible study it was stated -- most of the time, the obvious answer is the most correct.