So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!

[Dave M]

You only fall into unbelief if at first you mustered up your own belief. A Christian who is vetted by God and grafted into His family is given a real faith to believe Jesus is Lord. There is absolutely NO such thing as an atheist who was once a true Christian.

wonder why Paul warns us then that even though we have been grafted in, we to just like many Jews can be grafted out. So we can see from Romans 11 it is clear that a person that is grafted in can also be grafted out, it says to fear not to get comfortable, you see human God knows us better then we know ourselfs, when every we get to comfortable we become prideful, no wear in the bible does it preach to be comfortable, it preaches work out salvation in fear and trembling to endure to the end, not in some made up false comfort zone where we can fall into temptation and out of the will of God, so many people think they know better then God, and they make up things in there head, that is not in the word of God,,, trust in God not our self !!

Paul is talking to people who were grafted in warning them they can be grafted out just as easily, so you can see from Gods word that you are incorrect, about people not being grafted out or walking away from salvation, loosing faith, it happens. Its warned about all through scripture

Romans 11
That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you..

 

[KingJ]

wonder why Paul warns us then that even though we have been grafted in, we to just like many Jews can be grafted out. So we can see from Romans 11 it is clear that a person that is grafted in can also be grafted out, it says to fear not to get comfortable, you see human God knows us better then we know ourselfs, when every we get to comfortable we become prideful, no wear in the bible does it preach to be comfortable, it preaches work out salvation in fear and trembling to endure to the end, not in some made up false comfort zone where we can fall into temptation and out of the will of God, so many people think they know better then God, and they make up things in there head, that is not in the word of God,,, trust in God not our self !!

Paul is talking to people who were grafted in warning them they can be grafted out just as easily, so you can see from Gods word that you are incorrect, about people not being grafted out or walking away from salvation, loosing faith, it happens. Its warned about all through scripture

Romans 11
That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you..

With all due respect, just like @B-A-C , you are dancing around the point / s being made in the OP.

Try and focus on the example of Judas on which this thread is chiefly based.

Question - If Judas died before getting an opportunity to betray Jesus, would he be in heaven today? Yes or No?

Note that his heart desired to commit a very large mortal sin but he just never got the opportunity.

Please answer with a Yes or No, and then you can explain why you believe such.

 

[Dave M]

I have stated my belief about Judas in this thread, it's not my call to say if he would of gone to heaven, that alone is for God to decide. I did state I do not think he was ever saved, as he had no fruit, he was stealing from the Treasury.

 

[Bill]

You only fall into unbelief if at first you mustered up your own belief. A Christian who is vetted by God and grafted into His family is given a real faith to believe Jesus is Lord. There is absolutely NO such thing as an atheist who was once a true Christian.

Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins!

1 Cor 12:3 No one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says 'Let Jesus be cursed! ' and no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here.

Non-OSAS believers seem to think God is a human that vet's people for heaven like it is His first day at His job.

You and I will like for ETERNITY with God. You are still NOT dealing with the fact that someone like Judas would NEVER have been in heaven if he died before betraying Jesus.

You keep dancing around this!



You are taking this thread into a full OSAS verse non OSAS discussion. I asked you so nicely to focus on the Judas example.

If you knew what a Christian was, you would know that it is impossible for them to be a fig tree that does not bear fruit.

You have seemingly not read or grasped my OP!!! Would someone who just gave their life for you, not be able to make you a cup of tea?



There is a truth to sanctification for many in the church. But we know that not all who say ''Lord, Lord'' are saved and born again Christians that would die for Jesus. Please read my OP. If anyone is not able to die for Jesus, they are NOT a Christian. Anyone able to die for Jesus would NEVER be among those branches removed. How many posts are you going to type dancing around this fact?

Matt 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven! 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.

How many more posts before you ''''grasp''''' that a person that can be a martyr for Jesus would never be among the ''evildoers''?

Because you are NOT properly reading my OP I need to re-type it here!! For the people in Rev 2:10 only martyrdom = crown. Crown = Christian = martyrdom. Num 23:19 says God does not change and Acts 10:23 says God is no respecter of persons. All these verses you quoted, need to be read through this lens of what it takes to be a Christian so that you, I and everyone can grasp what a Christian actually is.

Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Your hypothesis is based on there is no free will.

 

[KingJ]

Your hypothesis is based on there is no free will.

If you get that from my post, you have not properly read it.

I can only assume you believe a Christian who has chosen to jump off the ''fence'' by let's say, being a martyr for Jesus, '''loses his free will'' to also betray Jesus? If this is not your belief, please explain what you mean.

You guys are mostly trolling and not reading / dealing with arguments raised. Could also be you 'all are just unable to deal with the points being raised.

There comes a point where dancing around facts is intentional.

 

[B-A-C]

Did Judas betray Jesus?

A friend can betray you. An enemy can not.

Luke 10:20 "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."

Was Judas's name recorded in heaven?

Mark 3:14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach,
Mark 3:15 and to have authority to cast out the demons.
Mark 3:16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter),
Mark 3:17 and James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder");
Mark 3:18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot;
Mark 3:19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Was Judas one of the twelve? Was he appointed by Jesus? Did he preach the gospel? Did he have the authority to cast out demons?
Could he cast out demons by his own power? Does Satan cast out his own demons?

Luke 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases.

John 6:66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67 So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
John 6:69 "We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"
John 6:71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

Jesus said to the "twelve". In all the verses above, it would seem that Judas was one of the twelve. Not eleven, twelve.
Jesus asked "the twelve" you don't want to go away also, do you? Peter said they all believed Jesus was the Holy One of God, and
they had nowhere else to go.

Jesus knew Judas was going to betray Him, but did Jesus make him betray Him? Was Judas already guilty before he actually
committed the act, or was he innocent until that moment he kissed Jesus in the garden?

Psa 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Exod 32:32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I think some people put so much emphasis on "God knows the future", that they forget He also knows the present.
He knows where people's hearts are today, right now in this moment. It may change next week, next month, next year.
But today, He knows their heart,

Luke 6:16; Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Judas wasn't always a traitor. He "became" a traitor.

John 13:2 During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
Judas wasn't always going the wrong direction. At some point, he "turned aside".
Acts 1:25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
Judas was an apostle.
Luke 6:13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:

Eleven of them weren't apostles, twelve of them were.

Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

 

[Dave M]

the one thing I always wondered about was Judas forgiven? I don't think so, but he was sorry, he was so sorry he hung himself.

 

[B-A-C]

the one thing I always wondered about was Judas forgiven? I don't think so, but he was sorry, he was so sorry he hung himself.

Good question.

Matt 27:3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Matt 27:4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!"
Matt 27:5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
Matt 27:6 The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood."
Matt 27:7 And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers.
Matt 27:8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
Matt 27:9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;
Matt 27:10 AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER'S FIELD, AS THE LORD DIRECTED ME."

( see Zech 11:13 )

But Judas wasn't the only apostle to betray Jesus.

Matt 26:34 Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times."
Matt 26:75 And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, "Before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." And he went out and wept bitterly.

Was Peter still saved at that moment? In fact...

Mark 14:50 And they all left Him and fled.

Exod 16:4 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

 

[Br. Bear]

Exod 16:4 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction.

A day's portion every day

Give us this day our daily bread


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

Your hypothesis is based on there is no free will.

It is next to impossible to separate the tenants of Calvinism. Once you start going down the road with one of the tenants,
you have to accept the others as well. There really is no such thing as a 2, 3 or 4 point Calvinist. It's really all or none.

You can almost watch the progression in every case.

You start with OSAS for example.
Then you start telling yourself God wouldn't save anyone who doesn't stay saved.
So, then you move to the next tenant, predestination.
God knows who is going to stay saved, so He only picks certain people to be saved.
So, then you move to the next tenant, irresistible grace.
Once God picks you, there's nothing you can do to "not" be saved, even if you don't want to be.

... and so on, and so forth.

 

[KingJ]

It is next to impossible to separate the tenants of Calvinism. Once you start going down the road with one of the tenants,
you have to accept the others as well. There really is no such thing as a 2, 3 or 4 point Calvinist. It's really all or none.

You can almost watch the progression in every case.

You start with OSAS for example.
Then you start telling yourself God wouldn't save anyone who doesn't stay saved.
So, then you move to the next tenant, predestination.
God knows who is going to stay saved, so He only picks certain people to be saved.
So, then you move to the next tenant, irresistible grace.
Once God picks you, there's nothing you can do to "not" be saved, even if you don't want to be.

... and so on, and so forth.

Absolute nonsense! Limited atonement is pure evil.

 

[KingJ]

Did Judas betray Jesus?

A friend can betray you. An enemy can not.

Luke 10:20 "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."

Was Judas's name recorded in heaven?

Mark 3:14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach,
Mark 3:15 and to have authority to cast out the demons.
Mark 3:16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter),
Mark 3:17 and James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder");
Mark 3:18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot;
Mark 3:19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Was Judas one of the twelve? Was he appointed by Jesus? Did he preach the gospel? Did he have the authority to cast out demons?
Could he cast out demons by his own power? Does Satan cast out his own demons?

Luke 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases.

John 6:66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67 So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
John 6:69 "We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"
John 6:71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

Jesus said to the "twelve". In all the verses above, it would seem that Judas was one of the twelve. Not eleven, twelve.
Jesus asked "the twelve" you don't want to go away also, do you? Peter said they all believed Jesus was the Holy One of God, and
they had nowhere else to go.

Jesus knew Judas was going to betray Him, but did Jesus make him betray Him? Was Judas already guilty before he actually
committed the act, or was he innocent until that moment he kissed Jesus in the garden?

Psa 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Exod 32:32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I think some people put so much emphasis on "God knows the future", that they forget He also knows the present.
He knows where people's hearts are today, right now in this moment. It may change next week, next month, next year.
But today, He knows their heart,

Luke 6:16; Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Judas wasn't always a traitor. He "became" a traitor.

John 13:2 During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
Judas wasn't always going the wrong direction. At some point, he "turned aside".
Acts 1:25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
Judas was an apostle.
Luke 6:13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:

Eleven of them weren't apostles, twelve of them were.

Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

You appear to be dancing around the point made.

For clarity, please answer this question with a YES or a NO.

Would Judas go to heaven for all ETERNITY if he died just before He betrayed Jesus. Yes or No?

 

[B-A-C]

Would Judas go to heaven for all ETERNITY if he died just before He betrayed Jesus. Yes or No?

In my opinion, yes. He wasn't guilty until he actually committed the sin, not before.

 

[KingJ]

In my opinion, yes. He wasn't guilty until he actually committed the sin, not before.

Thanks for your honesty. Now you just need to grasp that that is literal insanity . On par with God being fine with putting a pedophile with children.

In your view, someone who is capable of a mortal sin of betraying Jesus could make it into heaven for ALL eternity. You need more faith in God's ability to vet someone before He makes them a new creation! Only He can do this Jer 17:9-11 and as per the OP, better grasp what in fact a Christian is.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here.

Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

In your defense, you do believe a Christian must constantly examine themselves to be in Christ, making our disagreement a Rom 14:5 type immaterial matter. But I must be honest, it is rather annoying how you are keep pushing the discussion into an insulting OSAS vs non OSAS direction, clouding the underlying point of the OP, which is to ensure people take conversion to Christianity VERY seriously! Surely you can witness with and agree with that! God is not fooled by fake conversions of airy fairy commitment!

 

[Rhema]

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"

απεκριθη (ANSWERED) αυτοις (TO THEM) ο (THE) ιησους (JESUS) ουκ (NOT) εγω (I) υμας (Y'ALL) τους (THE) δωδεκα (TWELVE) εξελεξαμην (WERE OUT-SELECTED) και (AND) εξ (OUT) υμων (OF Y'ALL) εις (INTO) διαβολος (SLANDEROUS) εστιν (ONE IS)

LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon for "diabolos" ("devil")

A.slanderous, backbiting​

Rhema
(For what it's worth...)

 

[Rhema]

In my opinion, yes. He wasn't guilty until he actually committed the sin, not before.

Well we do have this passage:

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.​

(John 6:66-71 KJV)

Peter said "we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ," to which Jesus said, "Well.... one of y'all is slanderous (a backbiter)," which would seem to mean doesn't really believe.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Bill]

If you get that from my post, you have not properly read it.

I can only assume you believe a Christian who has chosen to jump off the ''fence'' by let's say, being a martyr for Jesus, '''loses his free will'' to also betray Jesus? If this is not your belief, please explain what you mean.

You guys are mostly trolling and not reading / dealing with arguments raised. Could also be you 'all are just unable to deal with the points being raised.

There comes a point where dancing around facts is intentional.

"There is absolutely NO such thing as an atheist who was once a true Christian."

This is what i based my statement on. "Your hypothesis is based on there is no free will."

 

[B-A-C]

In your view, someone who is capable of a mortal sin of betraying Jesus could make it into heaven for ALL eternity. You need more faith in God's ability to vet someone before He makes them a new creation! Only He can do this Jer 17:9-11 and as per the OP, better grasp what in fact a Christian is.

This idea of mortal sins and venial sins is missing you up here. All sin leads to death.
Well OK, the Bible says "one" sin doesn't. All the other, 9,999 sins lead to death.

1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Committing adultery is just as bad as murder. If you've broke one law ( any of the 616 in the OT ) you're just as guilty as if you broke all of them. If you show favoritism, or envy, or tell a lie, or commit fornication, you're just as guilty as if you broke any of the other laws.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All sin, any sin, leads to death. There are no little white lies, there are no fifty shades of grey sins. It's all sin.

Now, having said all that, if you're capable of committing 'ANY' sin, and you can still make it to heaven, it's only by the blood of Jesus
and the grace of God, and there is only one sin that the Bible says can't be forgiven. It isn't murder. In fact some of the people crying for Jesus to be crucified were likely saved later.

Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified."
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Even those who crucified Jesus can be forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit.

One more reason to "bash" Catholics, Protestant don't believe in mortal and venial sins.

If murder can never be forgiven, then David, Paul, Samson, Elijah, Gideon, Joshua, Barak, and a dozen others can never be saved.

 

[Twistie]

Why I don't claim the title of Christian... I see most Christians produce worldly fruits also many like to argue bicker debate and demean others who don't see as they do..
The Lord said follow me n no matter how many times I've looked and seeked for a title He claimed I find not one time He claimed Himself as a Christian not speak the word Christian it was man that started that as far as I can come to understand I know the Lord said Mine is a nation of priest I know He said Ye are my witnesses I know He said to be followers of Him I know He tells His children to separate and to turn from evil n there's no except in His sentence..

Idk I just don't get why many are so much more proud of the name Christian instead of just following the ways of the Lord and learning to do good like He tells His children to do

One can not claim to them learning to do good while arguing demeaning bickering n what ever else that comes along with the Christian church being in Total separation and division for the Lord has told us a house divided will fall n to think His word will not be fulfilled ya r just fooling yourself n ya r full of pride or ya don't believe the Word

Better is a dry morsel, and quietness therewith, than an house full of sacrifices with strife.

 

[KingJ]

This idea of mortal sins and venial sins is missing you up here. All sin leads to death.
Well OK, the Bible says "one" sin doesn't. All the other, 9,999 sins lead to death.

1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Committing adultery is just as bad as murder. If you've broke one law ( any of the 616 in the OT ) you're just as guilty as if you broke all of them. If you show favoritism, or envy, or tell a lie, or commit fornication, you're just as guilty as if you broke any of the other laws.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All sin, any sin, leads to death. There are no little white lies, there are no fifty shades of grey sins. It's all sin.

Now, having said all that, if you're capable of committing 'ANY' sin, and you can still make it to heaven, it's only by the blood of Jesus
and the grace of God, and there is only one sin that the Bible says can't be forgiven. It isn't murder. In fact some of the people crying for Jesus to be crucified were likely saved later.

Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified."
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Even those who crucified Jesus can be forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit.

One more reason to "bash" Catholics, Protestant don't believe in mortal and venial sins.

If murder can never be forgiven, then David, Paul, Samson, Elijah, Gideon, Joshua, Barak, and a dozen others can never be saved.

Truth, but half truth!

Judas did not hang himself because he thought about betraying Jesus! Imagine that!

You quoted Matt 5:28 but not Matt 5:32? Why? = Half truth!

The fact is that you believe God cannot vet a persons heart! You believe God is a fool that would allow a person with a rotten heart into heaven. Judas had a very rotten heart. He was a mortal sinner. He would have pulled a Lucifer type stunt in heaven if he was ever placed there.

As I have said in my OP, with all due respect, you and many others have absolutely no clue as to what a Christian is.

We will never commit a mortal sin in heaven because we have passed a session of judgement by God! Did Paul ever continue in this sin of murdering Christians? In Rom 7:15 was he referring to a mortal sin? Yes or No? Please, stop dancing around facts! . Just because Catholics teach mortal and venial sins, does not make it false.

Example, will someone who has shown 10/10 love for you in laying their lives down for yours, ever truly be able to murder you in the future? Of course NOT!

That is why there is an eternal bond between God and mankind in heaven!!!