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Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

The perfect already came. Jesus is the perfect that came the first time, and the scriptures give us the perfect law, the scriptures are finished, we have all we need to know to become perfect in Christ.
“but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away…..
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” 1 Corinthians 13:10-12

What does Paul mean by “face-to-face”?
Btw, this was obviously written after Jesus’ resurrection.

The “perfect” will be when Christ returns to fulfill all prophesy. When the dead in Christ shall rise and the church will be raptured to Him to be completed in perfection through Him, to know Him “face-to-face” as Paul says, and to reign with Him.
 
Go in the morgues and hospitals and prove it.
No one is getting raised from the dead after four days, and no one born blind is given sight, and no one born paralyzed can walk. There is no such thing as tongues and prophecies anymore, they have ceased, and there are no more Apostles.
Wow. Such small faith in what God can do…..
….and yes, what He can do THROUGH us…especially when we become willing, yielded, empty vessels.

I’ve witnessed miraculous operation of the Holy Spirit….and Praise God for it!
 
This is where guidance of the Holy Spirit into deeper understanding of God’s Word is essential.
We have to be careful about our doctrines and study the scriptures carefully.
You see, there is more than just the “Gift of Tongues.” There are actually 4 different kinds of tongues of which the Aposrle Paul makes clear distinction in his letters to the churches at Corinth and Rome.
There are tongues as a sign for believers and tongues as a sign for unbelievers. There is a tongue for edification of the church and a tongue for the edification of the individual. (Essentially, tongues for public and for private.)
Paul also speaks of tongues for intercession, where the Holy Ghost uses a born-again believer as an empty vessel to pray through with “groanings that cannot be understood.” This latter “tongue” is certainly not a known language and certainly not of the Spiritual Gifts of which Paul speaks.
No. That is a misunderstanding of the scriptures.
 
“but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away…..
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” 1 Corinthians 13:10-12

What does Paul mean by “face-to-face”?
Btw, this was obviously written after Jesus’ resurrection.

The “perfect” will be when Christ returns to fulfill all prophesy. When the dead in Christ shall rise and the church will be raptured to Him to be completed in perfection through Him, to know Him “face-to-face” as Paul says, and to reign with Him.
The perfect already came.
 
No. That is a misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Oh really? Show me.
Did Paul then contradict himself when he wrote of tongues that edify the individual and tongues that edify the church (the Gift…the one that must be interpreted)?
Of what was he speaking when he wrote of praying “in the Spirit” and “praying with his mind”? And since tongues (according to you) have ceased, and the miraculous gifts (according to you) were only for the Apostolic age, perhaps you can interpret these words of scripture that Paul wrote to the growing, expanding church….
“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.”
 
That would make sense, except that “the perfect” of which scripture speaks, is not referring to the completion of the Bible.

What else do you think it does refer to?

Why would it be impossible to deceive the elect if it did not refer to the whole book of law the Bible needed when trying the spirits to see if they are loosed from above bound on earth ?

The book of the law contains no philosophical theories of men .

Do you think there are laws missing by which we could know him more intimately or adequately?
 
What else do you think it does refer to?

Why would it be impossible to deceive the elect if it did not refer to the whole book of law the Bible needed when trying the spirits to see if they are loosed from above bound on earth ?

The book of the law contains no philosophical theories of men .

Do you think there are laws missing by which we could know him more intimately or adequately?
There is THE law that is “written on our hearts” by God’s Holy Spirit.
 
Thats not what He said. He said they shall lay their hands on the sick and they shall recover. Does Heart disease and inoperable cancer count??



Probably should reread that as it was God that was doing the miraculous works just as He did with Jesus in order to validate the words Jesus spoke.

Good point.

If we would attribute the unseen work of the gospel to the literal hands as a will of man . Then we have set up pantheon of Greek gods coming down in the likeness of corrupter humans an abomination or blasphemy .

The laying on of hands is a ceremonial law just as bowing or folding of ones hands a hope that God will move

The gospel the power of or faith of God unto salvation

Acts 14:7-14 And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, (blasphemy)
 
Do you believe that God no longer gives/calls apostles and prophets? Basically, what I’m asking is, do you believe those offices have ceased as well?
There is no such thing as Apostles anymore. They were the firsts. As for Prophets, there are no more prophecies.
 
Oh really? Show me.
Did Paul then contradict himself when he wrote of tongues that edify the individual and tongues that edify the church (the Gift…the one that must be interpreted)?

Only the real tongues were edifying. Tongue speaking edifies (nurtures) only the tongue speaker when no one understands because the tongue speaker feels blessed that God gave them an amazing gift. How greatly edifying it is for oneself just to have such a gift; that is the only way it edifies when you don’t understand what you are saying.

It is a false edification when one is performing nonsense babbling.
Of what was he speaking when he wrote of praying “in the Spirit” and “praying with his mind”? And since tongues (according to you) have ceased, and the miraculous gifts (according to you) were only for the Apostolic age, perhaps you can interpret these words of scripture that Paul wrote to the growing, expanding church….
“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.”
The false nowadays tongue speaking is commonly called a “prayer language.” Those practicing the false tongue speaking believe they are speaking a prayer language, and that in this type of praying it is somehow deeper and more personal than praying with their native language with words they understand. However, that is not scriptural, and that even goes against the Word of God which says you will have a fruitless mind if you pray like that. Surely, a fruitless mind is not something one should be aiming for in personal prayer times.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

It is important to realize that after the believers in the bible had the gift of speaking in tongues for the sign to the Jews…they kept the gift even when the Jews of other languages were not around. Therefore, the tongue speakers spoke only to God when they spoke in tongues they themselves did not understand and when no Jews from other languages were there, because, God, of course, can understand all the earthly languages the tongue speakers were speaking. How is that beneficial to anyone, even to the speaker when they can’t understand what they are saying?

Again, if there were no other people of other languages around to understand the tongue speaker, and if the tongue speaker themselves cannot interpret what they say and there was no other interpreter, then they are to be quiet and only speak to God, and this speaking edified (nurtured) only themselves. Only the real tongues were edifying. Tongue speaking edifies (nurtures) only the tongue speaker when no one understands because the tongue speaker feels blessed that God gave them an amazing gift. How greatly edifying it is for oneself just to have such a gift; that is the only way it edifies when you don’t understand what you are saying.
 
“but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away…..
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” 1 Corinthians 13:10-12

What does Paul mean by “face-to-face”?
Btw, this was obviously written after Jesus’ resurrection.

The “perfect” will be when Christ returns to fulfill all prophesy. When the dead in Christ shall rise and the church will be raptured to Him to be completed in perfection through Him, to know Him “face-to-face” as Paul says, and to reign with Him.
In the Old Testament, old law times, people saw darkly, dimly, they only had prophecy in part, and they were as children, until Jesus came the first time.

Now read this next scripture, it says when perfect is comes which is in part shall be done away.
We have all the prophecies we needed, the mysteries have been revealed, they aren't in part as they once were during the Old Testament times.



10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Now read about when I was a child and what that means.
It is about being under the Old Testament times. Paul refers to that time as the people being as a child, because they didn't have Jesus yet.



Galatians 4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:


Did you read that? When we were children is about being under the old law.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
So now that Jesus has come, we are no longer as a child. The perfect has come.


11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

We no longer see through a glass darkly, for they have seen him face to face.


12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

See here how Peter explains it:

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

The Old Testament believers waited a long time for God to reveal Jesus to us, and in the New Testament time people prophesied about what God finally revealed to us what He wanted us to know. We have the mysteries revealed, and we have all the teachings we need to lead us to eternal life, we cannot add or subtract from the finished work, we cannot add new prophecies and knowledge to the Bible. The perfect has come.

When you only have prophesy in part (as in the Old Testament times), the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled, and more prophecy is needed, it is imperfect. However, when there is fulfillment of prophecy (as in the New Testament times), then we have full understanding; so then, it is perfect and, that which is perfect is come.

The perfect Jesus Christ came, he gave his perfect teachings about the perfect New Covenant, he gave the perfect sacrifice, and we are made perfect by his blood and obeying his perfect words.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Bible has everything we need to know for salvation, for our being perfect.
When we have faith in Jesus’ blood and obey Jesus’ teachings, it is when and how we are made perfect.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

The nowadays tongue speakers claim that tongue speaking will not cease until Jesus comes again. However, we have the perfect now because Jesus came the first time, and the apostles, who were sent to lay the foundation and build upon it.

Again, Jesus the perfect came the first time, and gave the perfect law, and he is the perfect sacrifice who makes us perfect. The Bible is finished and we have Christ revealed, the mystery has been given we are no longer as children speaking as children under the old law.
 
Wow. Such small faith in what God can do…..
….and yes, what He can do THROUGH us…especially when we become willing, yielded, empty vessels.

I’ve witnessed miraculous operation of the Holy Spirit….and Praise God for it!

Don't tell me I have small faith. I have a powerful testimony.
Jesus is the Truth, and we have God's Truth and not some sects truth.
 
Sure seems to be a sudden onrush of members coming onto TalkJesus promoting other gospels ...
Jesus is not God - Jesus became a god after he ascended - the Bible has been rewritten by Trinitarians - the scriptures are not true - tongues are not genuine - tongues are babbling -
the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased - Pentecostal saints are liars -
Must be the very last of the last days. The enemy is really pressing in for an allout last ditch assault.
 
Sure seems to be a sudden onrush of members coming onto TalkJesus promoting other gospels ...
Jesus is not God - Jesus became a god after he ascended - the Bible has been rewritten by Trinitarians - the scriptures are not true - tongues are not genuine - tongues are babbling -
the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased - Pentecostal saints are liars -
Must be the very last of the last days. The enemy is really pressing in for an allout last ditch assault.
I am new here and I don't know about everyone's beliefs here, but I can imagine. I know Jesus is God. As for you speaking about the last days...the scriptures say knowledge will increase.
 
The nowadays tongue speakers claim that tongue speaking will not cease until Jesus comes again. However, we have the perfect now because Jesus came the first time, and the apostles, who were sent to lay the foundation and build upon it.
Well that is just your opinion, your understanding on this.
In the end God proves you wrong.
 
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