Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[vhusley]

Seeing he informs us in Mathew 24 no sign is given to wonder after and things like wars and rumor of wars ,earth quakes and such will continue till the end.

What sign are you wondering after in a hope it will fulfill other prophecy ?

We know the Son of man fulfilled the sign of the Jonas the prophet

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

. Who are they that make up the evil generation?

Come on man. Really? So Jesus is not returning to rapture the church away? And then to reign over the New Kingdom? Let’s not waste time and bandwidth arguing over things that are so obviously scriptural.

 

[vhusley]

Jesus will come again, but he is the perfect that came the first time.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

When we were children is about being under the old law.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

So now that Jesus has come, we are no longer as a child. The perfect has come.

We no longer see through a glass darkly, for they have seen him face to face.


12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

The Old Testament believers waited a long time for God to reveal Jesus to us, and in the New Testament time people prophesied about what God finally revealed to us what He wanted us to know. We have the mysteries revealed, and we have all the teachings we need to lead us to eternal life, we cannot add or subtract from the finished work, we cannot add new prophecies and knowledge to the Bible. The perfect has come.

When you only have prophesy in part (as in the Old Testament times), the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled, and more prophecy is needed, it is imperfect. However, when there is fulfillment of prophecy (as in the New Testament times), then we have full understanding; so then, it is perfect and, that which is perfect is come.

Did Paul see Him “face-to-face”? Did the church at Corinth to whom he was writing? Have we seen Jesus face-to-face?
Come on guy, you’re grasping for straws here. Your argument is falling apart…….Biblically.

 

[vhusley]

Jesus will come again, but he is the perfect that came the first time.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

When we were children is about being under the old law.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

So now that Jesus has come, we are no longer as a child. The perfect has come.

We no longer see through a glass darkly, for they have seen him face to face.


12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

The Old Testament believers waited a long time for God to reveal Jesus to us, and in the New Testament time people prophesied about what God finally revealed to us what He wanted us to know. We have the mysteries revealed, and we have all the teachings we need to lead us to eternal life, we cannot add or subtract from the finished work, we cannot add new prophecies and knowledge to the Bible. The perfect has come..

As this exchange with you is becoming fruitless, I will make this my final comment on the matter. Although this should be blatantly obvious, Paul says “when the perfect comes….” as in future-tense. Jesus had already come, died, and been resurrected long before Paul wrote this.
What you are claiming makes no sense in the context in which Paul is writing it. Paul is obviously speaking of something that will happen in the future.

 

[God's Truth]

“And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; UNTIL we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” - Ephesians 4:11-13

So no more apostles or prophets? So we (believers) have all attained the unity of faith? We, as the church have reached full maturity in our knowledge of the Son of God, “to a measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ? Because if not (and we obviously haven’t) then God’s Word clearly tells us through Paul, that we STILL need the fivefold ministry…..including Apostles and Prophets.

I give you solid scripture that you cannot refute. And you keep giving out Reformed Church/Calvinistic talking points. Calvinism and Reformed theology has some things right, but a lot wrong my friend. Thief is a spirit of pride and arrogance that has permeated it. God’s Word is complete, inerrant, and sufficient….but knowledge (or supposed knowledge) of it alone cannot save.
Knowledge of the Gospel message is awesome….but that can’t save a
Person. Gods Word MUST be APPLIED! The blood of Jesus MUST be applied. There MUST be a supernatural occurrence….a baptism of the Spirit. A person MUST take on Christ. Worship MUST be more than just words.
God is spirit and MUST be worshipped IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH!
The Reformed church, in its comfortable self-assurance that it “stands on the truth of scripture alone” (sola scriptura) , quite often completely misses the whole APPLICATION of it.

Thank God for His mercies….taking me out of Calvinism and out of Reformed Theology and into Apostolic truth….into the Spirit-filled church!

All denominations teach falseness, there are no more churches as there were during the laying of the foundation. An Apostle is someone who learned something first. There are no more Apostles. The churches nowadays teach falseness from men an women. Churches and pastors were needed in the New Testament times because the scriptures were being written, prophecies and teachings were being shared, but we have all of God's words that we need to know and do to have Jesus become our Teacher.

 

[God's Truth]

Did Paul see Him “face-to-face”? Did the church at Corinth to whom he was writing? Have we seen Jesus face-to-face?
Come on guy, you’re grasping for straws here. Your argument is falling apart…….Biblically.

The perfect already came. That is about Jesus. The New Testament times are when we were given the Jesus, his words, his teachings, his sacrifice, his testimony.

 

[God's Truth]

As this exchange with you is becoming fruitless, I will make this my final comment on the matter. Although this should be blatantly obvious, Paul says “when the perfect comes….” as in future-tense. Jesus had already come, died, and been resurrected long before Paul wrote this.
What you are claiming makes no sense in the context in which Paul is writing it. Paul is obviously speaking of something that will happen in the future.

Paul speaks to people and explains things from the Old Testament times to the New Testament times. Just like people teach wrong about Paul and say in Romans 7 he is speaking of himself after being saved still sinning as always.

 

[God's Truth]

No unbelievers of foreign languages are hearing nowadays tongue speakers and coming to believe in Jesus because they hear the truth spoken in their earthly language by those who never learned their language. Those who spoke tongues in the Bible times spoke it before knowing anything about it and weren’t taught how to do it as people are now. Tongues are for a sign to Jewish unbelievers OF ANOTHER LANGUAGE. If an unbeliever comes in and does not understand other languages…he will think they are out of their mind (1 Cor 14:23). Speaking in tongues is to speak real human languages that are foreign to the speaker.

 

[God's Truth]

Tongues are not for believers it is for unbelievers (1 Cor 14:22). The gift of tongues is a gift for a sign to the Jews (Isaiah 28:11, 12; 1 Cor 14:21; Acts 2:5, 8, Acts 10:44), during the laying of the foundation of the church. Speaking in tongues by the Gentiles also showed the Jews that God granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life (Acts 11:18). The sign has been given, and the foundation has since been laid (Eph 2:20), and tongues has ceased just as the Bible said it would.

 

[God's Truth]

Speaking in tongues would be “stilled” (1 Cor 13:8), stilled when prophecies ceased and knowledge of the mystery was revealed. Tongue speakers spoke mysteries (1 Cor 14:2); consequently, the mystery of the gospel has been given (Eph 6:19), the mystery has been revealed (Col 1:26).

 

[Waggles]

Time to shake the dust off my feet and to move on.
Some are just too hard of heart to allow living water to soften their hardened clay.

 

[God's Truth]

Nowadays tongue speakers also falsely use the scripture Romans 8:26. Romans 8:26 says, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” However, speaking in tongues is “words” and not groans. This scripture is about when we are weak and all we can do is groan, as when we are in great despair–then the Spirit intercedes for us to God, for we do not even have to speak words. The Spirit doesn’t intercede for us by groaning to the Father for us, but intercedes for us with words that we were too distraught to say.

 

[vhusley]

Time to shake the dust off my feet and to move on.
Some are just too hard of heart to allow living water to soften their hardened clay.

Amen!
It saddens me that so many who claim they follow Jesus, will never surrender to the Holy Spirit enough to experience that powerful, beautiful, intimate relationship with the Lord.

Some will devote so much time and mental energy attempting to disprove to others that which their unyielded hearts will not allow them to see or experience for themselves. if they would only devote that much energy to seeking spiritual truth, elevated faith, and righteousness….

 

[vhusley]

Nowadays tongue speakers also falsely use the scripture Romans 8:26. Romans 8:26 says, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” However, speaking in tongues is “words” and not groans. This scripture is about when we are weak and all we can do is groan, as when we are in great despair–then the Spirit intercedes for us to God, for we do not even have to speak words. The Spirit doesn’t intercede for us by groaning to the Father for us, but intercedes for us with words that we were too distraught to say.

By what “words” does the Holy Spirit speak to the Father? In what language then? Aramaic? Greek? English?

 

[God's Truth]

By what “words” does the Holy Spirit speak to the Father? In what language then? Aramaic? Greek? English?

Whatever language Jesus wants to speak.

 

[vhusley]

Whatever language Jesus wants to speak.

Is this answer grounded in scripture, or just what you believe?

And the “tongues of angels”….would that be one the actual languages developed and spoken by men?
And if so, what language did they use before man appeared on earth?

 

[God's Truth]

Is your answer grounded in scripture, or just what you believe?

Are you saying Jesus can't speak any language he wants to speak?

And the “tongues of angels”….would that be one the actual languages developed and spoken by men?
And if so, what language did they use before man appeared on earth?

Some tongue speakers say speaking in tongues is the language of angels, in that when the language of angels is spoken, it is not understandable to humans, unless the hearer is granted to hear and understand in their earthly language. They say that when the people were speaking in tongues at Pentecost they were speaking in angel language.

However, even if that is so, angels are to minister to humans, and humans are to understand in human languages, earthly languages.

Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

So even if the biblical speaking in tongues did not sound like any earthly language to those not given to hear and understand, the tongues that people were speaking were still heard and understood as different earthly foreign languages….by the foreigners themselves (see Acts 2:6 and 2:11).

Again, the language angels need to minister to us is with our earthly languages. Therefore, like the foreigners in the Bible who understood those speaking in tongues in their native language, we too would need to understand in our language what the angels were saying to us.

 

[Shaolin]

Speaking in tongues was a gift given during the laying of the foundation, it is a gift that has ceased, along with prophecies. The foundation has been laid a long time ago. There are no new prophecies and there are no tongues.

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To put it bluntly, you don't know what you are talking about...

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

The Spirit through Paul is explicit...God "has appointed in the church." That means, as long as the church is on the earth, there will be those things that He has appointed to be in the church. Secessionism came from calvin, and along with all the rest of his false doctrines, this is one of the most heinous.

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[Shaolin]

The gift of tongues is a gift for a sign to the Jews (Isaiah 28:11, 12; 1 Cor 14:21; Acts 2:5, 8, Acts 10:44), during the laying of the foundation of the church. Speaking in tongues by the Gentiles also showed the Jews that God granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life (Acts 11:18). The sign has been given, and the foundation has since been laid (Eph 2:20), and tongues has ceased just as the Bible said it would.

After I was saved, I was talked into believing speaking in tongues was real for our days, and I was taught how to do it and I even believed I could interpret what was said. One day someone asked me to teach them about it so I went to the Bible to give them scriptures on it, but then realized it was not right what I was doing. I realized I was not careful about accepting teachings by mere humans, and should have checked with the Bible before I accepted something as truth.

The believers in the Bible times who spoke in tongues, they spoke in tongues supernaturally. The believers who supposedly speak in tongues nowadays, they speak gibberish and believe God turns their gibberish into supernatural language, and that is a false doctrine.

This sounds like nothing more than your biased carnal mind that has been brainwashed by people who didn't know what they were talking about.

Most people who hold this view, hold it because they have never operated in any gift of the Spirit and don't like the idea, in their pride, that they don't have one. Usually, this is because such a person was never really saved. They believed lies about how to get saved (usually out of calvinism or some church where the pastor taught calvinist nonsense without realizing what he was really doing) and so never got saved. Scripture is clear, anyone who has been saved and is presently walking with God according to "the way of God" (Acts 18:24-26) has the indwelling Spirit within them, which means - according to I Corinthians 12 - that they have at least one of the spiritual gifts.

The only people who grace a church landscape that do not have a spiritual gift, are those who think they are saved and walking with God but are not...so they come up with this nonsense belief above.

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[Shaolin]

As this exchange with you is becoming fruitless, I will make this my final comment on the matter. Although this should be blatantly obvious, Paul says “when the perfect comes….” as in future-tense. Jesus had already come, died, and been resurrected long before Paul wrote this.
What you are claiming makes no sense in the context in which Paul is writing it. Paul is obviously speaking of something that will happen in the future.

God's truth person has a lot of issues and problems, that is why I finally had to put him on ignore...

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[Shaolin]

All denominations teach falseness, there are no more churches as there were during the laying of the foundation. An Apostle is someone who learned something first. There are no more Apostles. The churches nowadays teach falseness from men an women. Churches and pastors were needed in the New Testament times because the scriptures were being written, prophecies and teachings were being shared, but we have all of God's words that we need to know and do to have Jesus become our Teacher.

Ah...one of the hallmarks of a false deceived teacher..."I don't attend a church because..."

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