Talk Jesus Statement of Faith

[First and the Last]

@Christ4Ever , hey Chris, just out of curiosity, why is it that certain doctrines are off limits? I think this would be a great discussion.

What was being said is that most forums where the trinity and oneness doctrines are being refuted back and forth if they don't align with the Trinity get banned, But not here unless you get out of control.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever , hey Chris, just out of curiosity, why is it that certain doctrines are off limits? I think this would be a great discussion.

Who is Chris?
So far "off limits" has not precluded anyone from starting threads, and having these conversations, have they?

The issue is rarely just the topic itself, but usually the manner in which those who are attempting to "push" their own positions treat the others who believe differently. Also, that they have knowingly joined a site that per its SOF, they disagree with to the point that they take a "take no prisons" approach in their responses. Again, behavioral, more than topical and is why you know that some have been banned from Talk Jesus for.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Curtis]

The reason why many do not believe in the “trinity” of God or any other statements concerning speaking in tongues or the gifts of the Holy Spirit is that they have been taken “captive” by the forces of darkness by leaning on logical analytical resonings that come from man’s carnal unrenrewed mind.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men's ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).(AMP)

 

[Butch5]

What was being said is that most forums where the trinity and oneness doctrines are being refuted back and forth if they don't align with the Trinity get banned, But not here unless you get out of control.

Yeah, Chris and I have discussed this doctrine before

 

[B-A-C]

For someone trying to use scripture to show a plurality of God (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost) undermines this scriptures and the Bible will never contradict itself.

We believe God is only one God. Not multiple Gods, not three Gods. But three persons make up that one God.
Three persons make up my one family.

Why can't one God be more than one person?
One army can be thousands of people.

 

[Butch5]

We believe God is only one God. Not multiple Gods, not three Gods. But three persons make up that one God.
Three persons make up my one family.

Why does one God have to be one person?

Hi B-A-C

I would submit because God is referred to as "He". He is a personal pronoun for one individual being. If I was to speak od your family I would say they, not He. Even if you spoke of you and your sons. I would say they, not He.

That begs the question, why does the Bible say He instead of them?

 

[B-A-C]

I would submit because God is referred to as "He". He is a personal pronoun for one individual being. If I was to speak od your family I would say they, not He. Even if you spoke of you and your sons. I would say they, not He.

That begs the question, why does the Bible say He instead of them?

It depends on the context. The Smith family is represented by their daughter, she is over there. "She" is the Smith family in that context.

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Sometimes the Bible says "our". Not He.

 

[Curtis]

There is no object that can be used to describe the trinity of God that can fully give man this understanding. Some people try to use a three leaf clover to try to give how God can be three individual persons but being one God. That would mean God the Father as being 1/3 of the Godhead which not true. God the Father is 100% God not 1/3 God. The same with the Son of God not being 1/3 of the Godhead. Jesus is 100% God. The Holy Spirit also being 100% God.

The only thing that comes remotely close to how three make up one God is man himself who was made in the image and likeness of God.

The superior trinity of God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = one God.

The inferior trinity of man is body, soul, and spirit = one man.

 

[First and the Last]

We believe God is only one God. Not multiple Gods, not three Gods. But three persons make up that one God.
Three persons make up my one family.

Why can't one God be more than one person?
One army can be thousands of people.

All the fullness of the Godhead will only ever dwell in Christ (One Person), Even if He were three persons.

Col. 2:9 For in him (Christ Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[First and the Last]

The superior trinity of God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = one God.

The inferior trinity of man is body, soul, and spirit = one man.

With this analogy we have humans whose body, soul, and spirit cannot be separated except in death, But God can be separated and split up. We are made in His image and should be able to separate our body, soul and spirit at will.

 

[Butch5]

Who is Chris?
So far "off limits" has not precluded anyone from starting threads, and having these conversations, have they?

The issue is rarely just the topic itself, but usually the manner in which those who are attempting to "push" their own positions treat the others who believe differently. Also, that they have knowingly joined a site that per its SOF, they disagree with to the point that they take a "take no prisons" approach in their responses. Again, behavioral, more than topical and is why you know that some have been banned from Talk Jesus for.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

My apologies Nick. For some reason I was thinking Chris. I wasn't necessarily speaking of Talk Jesus. In my earlier post I said, my hats off to the Mods here for not banning people who disagree. Many forums do.

I can see why a person would join a group even if they didn't believe the statement of faith. One reason is if they haven't thought through their beliefs. For instance, most Christians I speak with say they believe the Nicene Creed and they also say they believe the Trinity doctrine. That's not really possible as they contradict one another.

I was on another forum. I won't name it. There was a discussion about the Trinity. The Mods told me that in order to post in that particular subforum it was require that I believe the Nicene Creed. I told them I do. They said my posts on the Trinity showed otherwise. We had a private discussion and I showed them beyond doubt that their beliefs were not in accord with the Nicene Creed. It was to the point that they had no reply. What we had was untold Christians on this forum who beleived wholeheartedly that they were adhering to the Nicene creed and some posting in a thread that required belief in the Nicene Creed and yet none of them actually believed the Nicene Creed. Even the Mods, who saw evidence beyond reproof that showed they weren't holding to the Nicene Creed refused to move on their position. Instead, in the face of all of the evidence, held to their position and basically reprimanded me. They didn't ban me because they could disprove my argument.

They put the doctrine off limits. By doing so they didn't have to try to explain it and no one could question it.

The problem they have with this is, if the doctrine they put off limits is wrong then there's no chance to ever come to the truth.

Another reason I can see for joining a group would be to help them see the truth that you believe they hold in error. If these was just some hypothetical concepts it wouldn't matter. But they're not, this is God's word. There's not really anything more important except God Himself. It's only natural for a Christian who cares for his brothers and sisters to warn them if the bridge is out.

I have a friend who is a Calvinist and believes he was chosen and that can't be changed. Some of the things he does don't align with Christ and Christianity. Shouldn't I warn him of the danger of that path? I think we'd all agree he should be warned. Even if I'm wrong about his path, if I believe he's in danger shouldn't I warn him?

 

[Butch5]

It depends on the context. The Smith family is represented by their daughter, she is over there. "She" is the Smith family in that context.

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Sometimes the Bible says "our". Not He.

Hi BAC

All that's suggested here is that there is at least one more being in the form of God. God spoke of Himself and someone else .

Consider I taught a class on modeling clay and said to the students, let's make figurines in our image. I think people would understand that as the student were told to make figurines in human likeness. I don't think anyone would assume that me and my students were all one.

 

[B-A-C]

I don't think anyone would assume that me and my students were all one.

Exactly, you're not "one", but you're all human. Or, in this case, you're all God.

 

[Butch5]

Exactly, you're not "one", but you're all human. Or, in this case, you're all God.

Agreed, but human isn't a "he". In that scenario all three are God. What then is God?

 

[First and the Last]

Exactly, you're not "one", but you're all human. Or, in this case, you're all God.

But only ONE would have all the fullness of the Godhead.

 

[MedicBravo]

Just how far are we allowed to stray from our Statement of Faith?
We have some who don’t believe the trinity, we have others that believe the most outlandish doctrines.
Just wondering.

The absurd argument of "The word isn't in the Bible so Jesus/God never spoke on it or the issue so x, y, or z is not a sin." They show lack of understanding of concepts and not all words exist in say English exist in other languages; i.e. Ancient Greek & Hebrew to Modern English.
The easiest and fastest way to explain God in this, is that He IS a triune (three persons in one and one in three) being. One's opinion that He isn't is untrue and claiming He isn't is blasphemy.
No Christian can call himself/herself one and believe God is NOT trinitarian.

 

[Butch5]

The absurd argument of "The word isn't in the Bible so Jesus/God never spoke on it or the issue so x, y, or z is not a sin." They show lack of understanding of concepts and not all words exist in say English exist in other languages; i.e. Ancient Greek & Hebrew to Modern English.
The easiest and fastest way to explain God in this, is that He IS a triune (three persons in one and one in three) being. One's opinion that He isn't is untrue and claiming He isn't is blasphemy.
No Christian can call himself/herself one and believe God is NOT trinitarian.

Case in point!

Does that mean Paul wasn't a Christian?

 

[First and the Last]

The absurd argument of "The word isn't in the Bible so Jesus/God never spoke on it or the issue so x, y, or z is not a sin." They show lack of understanding of concepts and not all words exist in say English exist in other languages; i.e. Ancient Greek & Hebrew to Modern English.
The easiest and fastest way to explain God in this, is that He IS a triune (three persons in one and one in three) being. One's opinion that He isn't is untrue and claiming He isn't is blasphemy.
No Christian can call himself/herself one and believe God is NOT trinitarian.

When someone says Three separate and distinct persons of God. Any form or fashion the word separate makes it Tritheism not Monotheism. Separation is not ONE.

 

[Curtis]

Why was the church so concerned about the doctrine of the Trinity? Is it really essential to hold to the full deity of the Son and the Holy Spirit? Yes it is, for this teaching has implications for the very heart of the Christian faith. First, the atonement is at stake. If Jesus is merely a created being and not fully God, then it is hard to see how he, a creature, could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins. Could any creature, no matter how great, really save us? Second, justification by faith alone is threatened if we deny the full deity of the Son. (This is seen today in the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in justification by faith alone.) If Jesus is not fully God, we would rightly doubt whether we can really trust him to save us completely. Could we really depend fully on any creature for our salvation? Third, if Jesus is not infinite God, should we pray to him or worship him? Who but an infinite, omniscient God could hear and respond to all the prayers of all God’s people? And who but God himself is worthy of worship? Indeed, if Jesus is merely a creature, no matter how great, it would be idolatry to worship him—yet the New Testament commands us to do so (Phil. 2:9–11; Rev. 5:12–14). Fourth, if someone teaches that Christ was a created being but nonetheless one who saved us, then this teaching wrongly begins to attribute credit for salvation to a creature and not to God himself. But this wrongfully exalts the creature rather than the Creator, something Scripture never allows us to do.

From Systematic Theology Second Edition by "Wayne Gruden"

 

[Butch5]

Why was the church so concerned about the doctrine of the Trinity? Is it really essential to hold to the full deity of the Son and the Holy Spirit? Yes it is, for this teaching has implications for the very heart of the Christian faith. First, the atonement is at stake. If Jesus is merely a created being and not fully God, then it is hard to see how he, a creature, could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins. Could any creature, no matter how great, really save us? Second, justification by faith alone is threatened if we deny the full deity of the Son. (This is seen today in the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in justification by faith alone.) If Jesus is not fully God, we would rightly doubt whether we can really trust him to save us completely. Could we really depend fully on any creature for our salvation? Third, if Jesus is not infinite God, should we pray to him or worship him? Who but an infinite, omniscient God could hear and respond to all the prayers of all God’s people? And who but God himself is worthy of worship? Indeed, if Jesus is merely a creature, no matter how great, it would be idolatry to worship him—yet the New Testament commands us to do so (Phil. 2:9–11; Rev. 5:12–14). Fourth, if someone teaches that Christ was a created being but nonetheless one who saved us, then this teaching wrongly begins to attribute credit for salvation to a creature and not to God himself. But this wrongfully exalts the creature rather than the Creator, something Scripture never allows us to do.

From Systematic Theology Second Edition by "Wayne Gruden"

This is all based on your beliefs. Have you considered that maybe some of those beliefs ie. assumptions aren't correct?