Talk Jesus Statement of Faith

[First and the Last]

The problem I think doesn't lie in the fact that Jesus is Fully God. It lies in the fact that some believe the Son is Eternally God. The Son is not eternal but begotten at a specific time. And was and is fully God from the moment of conception.

 

[Curtis]

The problem I think doesn't lie in the fact that Jesus is Fully God. It lies in the fact that some believe the Son is Eternally God. The Son is not eternal but begotten at a specific time. And was and is fully God from the moment of conception.

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If Jesus is the "brightness of God's Glory" that makes him (Jesus) God eternal and if he is not then God the Father does not exist!
The Glory of the Father (Jesus Christ) has been in existence as long as the Father has been in existence which is forever!

 

[First and the Last]

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If Jesus is the "brightness of God's Glory" that makes him (Jesus) God eternal and if he is not then God the Father does not exist!
The Glory of the Father (Jesus Christ) has been in existence as long as the Father has been in existence which is forever!

Hebrews 1 can be viewed as a restatement of John 1 in that God the Father was made flesh. Hebrews 1:2 says that God has spoken to us by His Son; John 1:14 says the Word was made flesh, and John 1:18 says the Son has declared God the Father. From these verses we understand that the Son is not distinct from the Father in personality but is the mode by which the Father revealed Himself to humanity.

Jesus Christ the Man is not eternal. He had a childhood, grew up and died on the cross and now has a resurrected body. Only the full deity of God resident in His body is eternal. To say the Son is eternal is to deny the existence of the human body which had to die on the cross.

 

[First and the Last]

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If Jesus is the "brightness of God's Glory" that makes him (Jesus) God eternal and if he is not then God the Father does not exist!
The Glory of the Father (Jesus Christ) has been in existence as long as the Father has been in existence which is forever!

The Bible defines the Son of God as the child born of Mary, not as the eternal Spirit of God (Luke 1:35). “Son of God” may refer to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh—that is, deity in the human nature.

“Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms “Son of God,” “Son of man,” and “Son” are appropriate and biblical. However, the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

The Son of God is not a distinct person in the Godhead but the physical expression of the one God. The Son is “the image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:13-15) and “the express image of his [God’s] person” (Hebrews 1:2-3). Just as a signature stamp leaves an exact likeness on paper, or just as a seal leaves an exact impression when pressed in wax, so the Son of God is the exact expression of the Spirit of God in flesh. Humans could not see the invisible God, so God made an exact likeness of Himself in flesh, impressed His very nature in flesh, came Himself in flesh, so that humans could see and know Him.

 

[Curtis]

The Bible defines the Son of God as the child born of Mary, not as the eternal Spirit of God (Luke 1:35). “Son of God” may refer to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh—that is, deity in the human nature.

“Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms “Son of God,” “Son of man,” and “Son” are appropriate and biblical. However, the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

The Son of God is not a distinct person in the Godhead but the physical expression of the one God. The Son is “the image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:13-15) and “the express image of his [God’s] person” (Hebrews 1:2-3). Just as a signature stamp leaves an exact likeness on paper, or just as a seal leaves an exact impression when pressed in wax, so the Son of God is the exact expression of the Spirit of God in flesh. Humans could not see the invisible God, so God made an exact likeness of Himself in flesh, impressed His very nature in flesh, came Himself in flesh, so that humans could see and know Him.

Wow, I thought Jesus said before Abraham existed he existed. ( John 8:58) Did Baby Jesus the Son of God create the world after being born of Mary?
Who visited Abraham on the planes along with two other angels. How could Abraham have seen Jesus before Jesus's birth? ( John 8:56 ) Was Jesus called the Son of God when he said this?

Was Jesus the Son of God before his incarnation?

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jesus was the Son of God before his physical birth if not who did God send?

 

[Butch5]

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If Jesus is the "brightness of God's Glory" that makes him (Jesus) God eternal and if he is not then God the Father does not exist!
The Glory of the Father (Jesus Christ) has been in existence as long as the Father has been in existence which is forever!

That's assuming you understand exactly what Paul meant by the Glory of God. Paul didn't say Jesus was eternally the express image of God.

This argument tries to rationalize a doctrine into existence. It's busy way of inference. However, it's not a necessary inference.

What we need are clear statements from Scripture. Paul state explicitly that one is saved through faith. Therefore we can argue that the Bible teaches salvation through faith. There's no question here. It's not a matter of inference. It's a plain crystal clear statement. Salvation is through faith. This is the kind of statement we need if we're going to claim the Bible teaches something. Just because we believe point A and point B is inferred from point A doesn't mean the Bible teaches point B. Maybe we are misunderstanding point A and are thus drawing an incorrect inference about point B.

 

[First and the Last]

Wow, I thought Jesus said before Abraham existed he existed. ( John 8:58) Did Baby Jesus the Son of God create the world after being born of Mary?
Who visited Abraham on the planes along with two other angels. How could Abraham have seen Jesus before Jesus's birth? ( John 8:56 ) Was Jesus called the Son of God when he said this?

Was Jesus the Son of God before his incarnation?

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jesus was the Son of God before his physical birth if not who did God send?

One way that God revealed Himself in the Old Testament and dealt with humans on their level was through the use of theophanies. A theophany is a visible manifestation of God, and we usually think of it as temporary in nature. As we have seen, God is invisible to humans. To make Himself visible, He manifested Himself in a physical form. Even though no humans can see the Spirit of God, they can see a representation of God. Below are some ways in which God chose to manifest Himself in the Old Testament. God and two angels appeared in the form of three men (18:2) and ate food provided by Abraham. The two angels left to go to Sodom while God remained to talk to Abraham (Genesis 18:22; 19:1).

In this verse, Jesus is speaking to the Jews and telling them that Abraham, their forefather, looked forward to the time when Jesus would come into the world. The phrase "to see my day" suggests that Abraham anticipated the coming of the Messiah, which is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Jesus was the Son of God before His existence only in the mind and plan of God. Not in actuality until His conception.

As for as Rom. 8:3 "God sending His Son" is not sending Him from heaven but of sending Him out in the world after His baptism by John.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus was the Son of God before His existence only in the mind and plan of God. Not in actuality until His conception.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Did Jesus enjoy God’s glory with him only in God the Father mind? Sorry, Jesus (also known as Yashua) created all things that exists. Jesus has always existed with both the Father and the Holy Spirit from eternity past and forever. Jesus the eternal Son of God put on a physical body by manifesting himself in the flesh using a body that his Father had prepared for him.( Heb 10:5 ) This was only the method God used to send his eternal Son.

 

[Curtis]

As for as Rom. 8:3 "God sending His Son" is not sending Him from heaven but of sending Him out in the world after His baptism by John.

Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jhn 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

 

[MedicBravo]

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Did Jesus enjoy God’s glory with him only in God the Father mind? Sorry, Jesus (also known as Yashua) created all things that exists. Jesus has always existed with both the Father and the Holy Spirit from eternity past and forever. Jesus the eternal Son of God put on a physical body by manifesting himself in the flesh using a body that his Father had prepared for him.( Heb 10:5 ) This was only the method God used to send his eternal Son.

All three existed as the Bible says from before Time, Space, and Matter. Whatever "First and Last' suggested is absurd.
People have a problem with putting God in a box.

 

[B-A-C]

Mic 5:2; "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

John 8:56; "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
John 8:57; So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
John 8:58; Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

John 17:5; "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Heb 7:3; Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

Rev 22:13; "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

John 17:24; "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Dan 3:24; Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astounded and stood up in haste; he said to his high officials, "Was it not three men we cast bound into the midst of the fire?" They replied to the king, "Certainly, O king."
Dan 3:25; He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!"

 

[B-A-C]

John 3:13; "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

John 6:33; "For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."

John 6:38; "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Rom 8:3; For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

1Jn 1:2; and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Gal 4:4; But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

Heb 1:2; in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

 

[Curtis]

The eternal Son of God who created all things by direction of His Father and through the help of the Holy Spirit, Jesus who existed eternally put on flesh and blood.

Heb 2:14 Since all of these sons and daughters have flesh and blood, Jesus took on flesh and blood to be like them. He did this so that by dying he would destroy the one who had power over death (that is, the devil).(GW)

 

[Curtis]

Eph 3:9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Rev 4:11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

 

[First and the Last]

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Did Jesus enjoy God’s glory with him only in God the Father mind? Sorry, Jesus (also known as Yashua) created all things that exists. Jesus has always existed with both the Father and the Holy Spirit from eternity past and forever. Jesus the eternal Son of God put on a physical body by manifesting himself in the flesh using a body that his Father had prepared for him.( Heb 10:5 ) This was only the method God used to send his eternal Son.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” (John 1:1, 14). Literally, the Word (God) was tabernacled or tented among us. When did God tabernacle or robe Himself in flesh? In Jesus Christ. Both verses prove that Jesus is God—that He is God manifest (revealed, made known, made evident, displayed, shown) in flesh.

John 1 beautifully teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh. In the beginning was the Word (Greek, Logos). The Word was not a separate person or a separate god any more than a man’s word is a separate person from him. Rather the Word was the thought, plan, or mind of God. The Word was with God in the beginning and actually was God Himself (John 1:1). The Incarnation existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” (I John 5:7).

Although this verse of Scripture is often used by those who believe in three persons of God, it actually refutes this view, for it says that “these three are one.” Some interpret this phrase to mean one in unity as husband and wife are one. But it should be pointed out that this view is essentially polytheistic. If the word one referred to unity instead of a numerical designation, then the Godhead could be viewed as many gods in a united council or government. If unity were meant, the verse should have read, “These three agree as one.”

It is also interesting to note that this verse does not use the word Son, but Word. If Son were the special name of a distinct person in the Godhead, and if this verse were trying to teach distinct persons, why did it use Word instead of Son? Son does not refer primarily to deity, but Word does. The Word is not a distinct person from the Father any more than a man and his word are distinct persons. Rather, the Word is the thought, plan, or mind of God and also the expression of God.

If there is an Eternal Son it would have been used here. Flesh is not eternal. He existed as the Word of God (which is no more separate than a man and his word) before His incarnation.

 

[First and the Last]

Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jhn 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

We also need to understand Jesus is fully God and fully Man. Sometimes He acts and speaks as Man and sometimes He acts and speaks as God.

 

[First and the Last]

The eternal Son of God who created all things by direction of His Father and through the help of the Holy Spirit, Jesus who existed eternally put on flesh and blood.

Heb 2:14 Since all of these sons and daughters have flesh and blood, Jesus took on flesh and blood to be like them. He did this so that by dying he would destroy the one who had power over death (that is, the devil).(GW)

The word became flesh. Not eternal Son. Jesus did not exist eternally but was born in time. And also died before rising again.

 

[First and the Last]

“Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms “Son of God,” “Son of man,” and “Son” are appropriate and biblical. However, the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

 

[Curtis]

this verse does not use the word Son, but Word. If Son were the special name of a distinct person in the Godhead, and if this verse were trying to teach distinct persons, why did it use Word instead of Son?

Joh 1:14 The Word became a human being. He made his home with us. We have seen his glory. It is the glory of the one and only Son. He came from the Father. And he was full of grace and truth. (NiRV)

 

[Curtis]

the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,