The 2 Kinds of Faith of Abraham

[GodB4Us]

@God's Truth

Believe it or not, there are 2 kinds of faith of Abraham towards God that has been addressed in scripture.

The faith without works is where Abraham believed God for why Paul referred to that faith as the same as faith in Jesus Christ for salvation without works..

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Then there is that faith of Abraham towards God about Him providing for His saints which requires works. Abaraham's faith that God will provide was demonstrated by his offering Isaac even at the altar.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Stepping out on faith that God will provide is what James was referring to here in regards to Abraham and Isaac. This is so because the name of the place is the exact faith of this historical moment of Abraham's faith in God to provide.

Genesis 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

So why was James referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide? The abuse & the neglect of the poor by the church.

James 2:1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

That was one of the abuse that the church was doing to the poor. Here is another abuse.

After church service, the church wanted to get out of helping the poor from the bounty collected at church service by issuing the church's faith in God to provide for the poor TO the poor so the poor will go away with nothing.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Keep all of those verses in context to this abuse the church was doing in verses 15 & 16 in getting out of helping the poor as James was rebuking the church for doing.

This is why I do not believe James was talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works as Paul says in Romans 4:1-5 when Paul had referred to Abraham's righteousness gained by believing God, which was not about Abraham's faith in God to provide when offering Isaac up on that altar. James states that those who profess faith in God to provide to the poor, have best lead by example to the poor or your faith is dead in the eyes of the poor.

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth

Believe it or not, there are 2 kinds of faith of Abraham towards God that has been addressed in scripture.

The faith without works is where Abraham believed God for why Paul referred to that faith as the same as faith in Jesus Christ for salvation without works..

No. Absolutely not.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul is speaking abut Abraham's faith versus Abraham's circumcision.

Abraham's faith ALWAYS included obedience to God.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

See that scripture I gave in Hebrews, it is Paul speaking of Genesis 12:4.

It is all before the faith of Abraham scriptures.

Abraham had faith and obedience, always, his faith was even tested by what he was asked to do and he did it, when he was ready to sacrifice Isaac.

Again, Paul is comparing Abraham's living faith/faith with obedience to his CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision in the flesh was the sign of the old covenant, and it was a sign that a person did the other purification works of the law.

Then there is that faith of Abraham towards God about Him providing for His saints which requires works. Abaraham's faith that God will provide was demonstrated by his offering Isaac even at the altar.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Stepping out on faith that God will provide is what James was referring to here in regards to Abraham and Isaac. This is so because the name of the place is the exact faith of this historical moment of Abraham's faith in God to provide.

Genesis 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

So why was James referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide? The abuse & the neglect of the poor by the church.

James and Peter both heard of people's false understanding of Paul's teaching, the false faith alone doctrine they thought Paul taught.

James says they are foolish for thinking faith alone saves, and Peter says they are unstable and ignorant, then he warns us to obey.

James 2:1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

That was one of the abuse that the church was doing to the poor. Here is another abuse.

After church service, the church wanted to get out of helping the poor from the bounty collected at church service by issuing the church's faith in God to provide for the poor TO the poor so the poor will go away with nothing.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Keep all of those verses in context to this abuse the church was doing in verses 15 & 16 in getting out of helping the poor as James was rebuking the church for doing.

I gave you scripture from James about Abraham and Rahab and it has nothing to do with giving to the poor. What then of the poor? They don't have money to give, now what? They only have to just believe too and not repent of their sins to get saved? We have to obey Jesus to get saved. Jesus tells us who he saves and why and how to be the one he saves. He tells us in great detail. He teaches exactly so that we can do it. You are going against it.

This is why I do not believe James was talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works as Paul says in Romans 4:1-5 when Paul had referred to Abraham's righteousness gained by believing God, which was not about Abraham's faith in God to provide when offering Isaac up on that altar. James states that those who profess faith in God to provide to the poor, have best lead by example to the poor or your faith is dead in the eyes of the poor.

You are doing big strides to try to protect and justify the false teachings of the faith alone crowd.

 

[GodB4Us]

You are doing big strides to try to protect and justify the false teachings of the faith alone crowd.

Yet keeping the faith in Jesus Christ is the good fight; not keeping the faith & works is the good fight. It is by believing in Him as our Good Shepherd is how we are following Him for why it is written that the just shall live by faith.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Works has its "profit" but not for obtaining salvation when that was already obtained by believing in Him.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Try not to use verse 8 as if that voids the truth in verses 4-7.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Try not to apply verse 10 as if that nullifies verses 8-9.

Salvation is a free gift for all who believe in him for why it has to be separate from discipleship which requires us to obey Him by believing in Him to be our Good Shepherd in helping us to follow Him. That is the only way a saved believer can continue to rest in Him for all things as His New Covenant says so for why I can understand His request to me is to believe Him & scriptures agree in doing any work of God.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If you want to do any of God's work in your life, you are to believe Him that He will do His work in you & help you to do good works. So rely on Him all the time in His New Covenant to you, rather than looking to yourself in keeping a vain & empty pledge which can only deny your faith in Him to do.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[God's Truth]

Yet keeping the faith in Jesus Christ is the good fight; not keeping the faith & works is the good fight. It is by believing in Him as our Good Shepherd is how we are following Him for why it is written that the just shall live by faith.

Faith alone is dead. Why do you keep wanting to preach against obedience to Christ?

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul is talking about the remnant Jews. The Jews did the works of the law.
Do you understand that the works of the law are the purification/ceremonial works?

No such thing as it being some hard and strange thing to obey Jesus' powerful words that are Spirit and full of life.

What are you doing it not obeying him?

Works has its "profit" but not for obtaining salvation when that was already obtained by believing in Him.

No such thing as only believe. We have to believe that we have to obey him.
Are you going to keep saying that about Jesus that we just have to believe him and do nothing else?
You don't say anything about the scriptures I gave you where Jesus says obey him.

We are blessed by becoming a family member and friend if we do what Jesus says.


Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Look at that scripture more closely.
It speaks of a washing...it is about being washed by the Holy Spirit...being purified by the Holy Spirit...as opposed to the washing done before in the purification works...the righteous works of the purification works of the law.

Paul is explaining that it is not because of those works, because Jesus purifies us now. See the rest of Titus 5 where it tells us we were washed by Jesus instead of the works of the law where the people used to wash themselves:

5 He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

These are the righteous works of the law that the people used to have to do to justify themselves before the Lord:


The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

All the times Paul speaks of not of by works, he is speaking about how it is no longer of the purification works.

Keep reading Titus where you quoted and move to 9:

He also warns against people trying to find out if they are blood related to any of the prophets.
He says not to argue about the law.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

See, it is about the works of the law---the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL works of the law.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Try not to use verse 8 as if that voids the truth in verses 4-7.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I already gave you the scripture that says circumcision is the works of the law the pharisees used to boast in.
Why don't you go by the scriptures I give you or reply to them?

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Salvation is a free gift for all who believe in him for why it has to be separate from discipleship which requires us to obey Him by believing in Him to be our Good Shepherd in helping us to follow Him. That is the only way a saved believer can continue to rest in Him for all things as His New Covenant says so for why I can understand His request to me is to believe Him & scriptures agree in doing any work of God.

No such gospel.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We have to believe on Jesus---those people believed in GOD, now they have to believe in Jesus, they have to believe that they have to obey Jesus.

If you want to do any of God's work in your life, you are to believe Him that He will do His work in you & help you to do good works. So rely on Him all the time in His New Covenant to you, rather than looking to yourself in keeping a vain & empty pledge which can only deny your faith in Him to do.

So to you, obeying God is to deny faith in Him? You are badly mistaken.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Are you kidding? It is about living faith, faith with obedience. Look closer...


The Faith of Abel, Enoch, Noah

4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

The Faith of Abraham

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Do you see it now?

 

[GodB4Us]

Faith alone is dead. Why do you keep wanting to preach against obedience to Christ?

To obey the gospel is to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation is how we are saved. John 3:15-18

To share your faith in God to provide to the poor, you best lead by example by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that is about to perish from the elements and starvation otherwise your faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor since the poor sees your verbalized faith in God providing for the poor as "dead". That is what James was talking about in rebuking the church for disrespecting the poor by sharing their faith to the poor without leading by example.

 

[God's Truth]

To obey the gospel is to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation is how we are saved. John 3:15-18

To share your faith in God to provide to the poor, you best lead by example by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that is about to perish from the elements and starvation otherwise your faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor since the poor sees your verbalized faith in God providing for the poor as "dead". That is what James was talking about in rebuking the church for disrespecting the poor by sharing their faith to the poor without leading by example.

I hope you do more with what I said then repeat your beliefs.

Not everyone is gifted to provide to the poor, and, what of the saved poor who give nothing? I already gave you scripture FROM JAMES, from the very place in the Bible you think is only about the poor, but James speaks of RAHAB and ABRAHAM and it had nothing to do with feeding the poor.

You don't deal with the scriptures and explanations I give, you merely repeat your false beliefs. You need to deal with the scriptures and explanation that I give too, it is what I do for you and that is how to discuss and debate, not just keep repeating and copy/pasting your beliefs and favorite scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

@GodB4Us

I hope you deal with all the scriptures I give to you where Jesus says IF you OBEY him then you are a disciple, a family member, a friend.

I hope you deal with all the scriptures I give you where Jesus says you will receive the Holy Spirit IF YOU OBEY.

I have given these scriptures to you many times, but you ignore them, you just keep copy/pasting your scriptures about something else.

 

[GodB4Us]

I hope you do more with what I said then repeat your beliefs.

Only because we have come to the crux in our discussion whereby God has to cause the increase, brother.

Not everyone is gifted to provide to the poor, and, what of the saved poor who give nothing? I already gave you scripture FROM JAMES, from the very place in the Bible you think is only about the poor, but James speaks of RAHAB and ABRAHAM and it had nothing to do with feeding the poor.

You don't deal with the scriptures and explanations I give, you merely repeat your false beliefs. You need to deal with the scriptures and explanation that I give too, it is what I do for you and that is how to discuss and debate, not just keep repeating and copy/pasting your beliefs and favorite scriptures.

The problem here is applying James words to why he was writing those words. From the beginning of chapter 2, James was addressing the church's disrespect of the poor and he still was, when the church was expressing their faith in God to provide TO the poor just to get out of helping the poor. That whole chapter was James rebuke to the church for disrespecting the poor and how they were doing it even by voicing their faith in God to provide for the poor without leading by example.

Maybe one day when the Lord leads you to read that chapter again, He will help you to see James rebuke towards that church disrespecting the poor that he was talking about how to apply their faith in God t provide TO the poor by leafing by example; hence that work of meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were about to perish from the elements and starvation.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[God's Truth]

Only because we have come to the crux in our discussion whereby God has to cause the increase, brother.

Stop ignoring the scriptures I give you. Stop merely copy/pasting.

The problem here is applying James words to why he was writing those words. From the beginning of chapter 2, James was addressing the church's disrespect of the poor and he still was, when the church was expressing their faith in God to provide TO the poor just to get out of helping the poor. That whole chapter was James rebuke to the church for disrespecting the poor and how they were doing it even by voicing their faith in God to provide for the poor without leading by example.

Maybe one day when the Lord leads you to read that chapter again, He will help you to see James rebuke towards that church disrespecting the poor that he was talking about how to apply their faith in God t provide TO the poor by leafing by example; hence that work of meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were about to perish from the elements and starvation.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

You refuse to address what I said. I GAVE YOU SCRIPTURES FROM JAMES ABOUT RAHAB AND ABRAHAM AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FEEDING THE POOR.

I think you have struggled with your false faith alone teachings and think you found a solution to the scripture in James about faith alone not saving anyone. You are wrong though, for faith alone is dead. There are many scriptures to show you this, but you REFUSE to address them.

 

[God's Truth]

@GodB4Us

If you look at all the scriptures I gave about faith with obedience, IN THIS THREAD ALONE, and you keep ignoring it, I don't see how you think you can think we are having a real discussion and debate for the truth.

Let's see how much you want to discuss. Deal with all those scriptures I gave about OBEYING.

 

[GodB4Us]

Stop ignoring the scriptures I give you. Stop merely copy/pasting.

You refuse to address what I said. I GAVE YOU SCRIPTURES FROM JAMES ABOUT RAHAB AND ABRAHAM AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FEEDING THE POOR.

But everything to do in what kind of faith James was referring to Abraham about which was about his faith in God to provide for His servants and the proof of that specific kind of faith is by the name of that site Jehovah-jireh..

I think you have struggled with your false faith alone teachings and think you found a solution to the scripture in James about faith alone not saving anyone. You are wrong though, for faith alone is dead. There are many scriptures to show you this, but you REFUSE to address them.

Faith in Jesus Christ for how we are saved without works is not dead.

If you share your faith to the poor that God will provide for them, then you have to lead by example when you see them about to perish from the elements and starvation from what God has provided you already for in leading by example or else in the eyes of the poor, your faith in God to provide will not profit the poor nor save the poor.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if requiring works.

 

[GodB4Us]

@GodB4Us

If you look at all the scriptures I gave about faith with obedience, IN THIS THREAD ALONE, and you keep ignoring it, I don't see how you think you can think we are having a real discussion and debate for the truth.

Let's see how much you want to discuss. Deal with all those scriptures I gave about OBEYING.

I had applied those verses on what it is we are obeying and that is by believing in Him for everything. When I see any of His commandments and I see it is impossible for me to do like love my enemy, I look to Jesus to help me to do this, even if it means just to forgive him thus not taking vengeance because he does not know what he is doing since Christ was sent into the world to save sinners like him too, and not just me.

I am not under any pledge when I am under His New Covenant by believing Him. That is how the little children enter therein because all hey can do is trust the Lord at His word that He will perform the New Covenant which is to His glory, not ours.

 

[God's Truth]

But everything to do in what kind of faith James was referring to Abraham about which was about his faith in God to provide for His servants and the proof of that specific kind of faith is by the name of that site Jehovah-jireh..

Faith in Jesus Christ for how we are saved without works is not dead.

If you share your faith to the poor that God will provide for them, then you have to lead by example when you see them about to perish from the elements and starvation from what God has provided you already for in leading by example or else in the eyes of the poor, your faith in God to provide will not profit the poor nor save the poor.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if requiring works.

Nonsense. Faith alone is dead, it cannot save anyone.

 

[God's Truth]

I had applied those verses on what it is we are obeying and that is by believing in Him for everything. When I see any of His commandments and I see it is impossible for me to do like love my enemy, I look to Jesus to help me to do this, even if it means just to forgive him thus not taking vengeance because he does not know what he is doing since Christ was sent into the world to save sinners like him too, and not just me.

I am not under any pledge when I am under His New Covenant by believing Him. That is how the little children enter therein because all hey can do is trust the Lord at His word that He will perform the New Covenant which is to His glory, not ours.

The kingdom of heaven already belongs to little children, if they die before growing up, they go to Jesus.

You are no little child. You must become as one if you want to be saved. You have to do what Jesus says, for he tells us grown people how to become as little children so we can enter.

 

[God's Truth]

@GodB4Us

Deal with these scriptures.

None of them say what you say.

Nowhere does Jesus say what you say.

Jesus doesn't say blessed rather are those who don't do anything I say except believe.

Jesus doesn't say that.

False teachers confused you.

We are blessed by becoming a family member and friend if we do what Jesus says.


Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

 

[GodB4Us]

@GodB4Us

Deal with these scriptures.

None of them say what you say.

Nowhere does Jesus say what you say.

Jesus doesn't say blessed rather are those who don't do anything I say except believe.

Jesus doesn't say that.

False teachers confused you.

We are blessed by becoming a family member and friend if we do what Jesus says.


Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

Luke 11:28 is Jesus addressing a woman to defer her from doing that which she was doing.

Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

So what was He deferring the woman to the word of God to do rather than honor His mother, Mary? What every believer is under judgment to do; the only way to honor the Father is by only honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

But guess what? I needed His help to serve Him and nothing else in His name when I was confronted by that holy laughter movement and so what boast in my choice to serve the Lord Jesus Christ only when I had to rely on Him to help me to do that?

As for Matthew 12:50, how does one do the will of the Father in becoming His brother, sister, and mother? By believing in Him. That is how one gets the seal of adoption whereby we call God Father.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

John 15:14 is something you should consider in regards to that "pledge" of yours because in context, this was written.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

So how can you obey by doing the best you can by keeping that pledge when He has chosen you to d His work in because of His new Covenant of what He will do for you to bear much fruit and all He asks of you is to believe Him.

Because earlier He said this;

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 8:31 is Jesus acknowledging the believers and signified how they shall be His disciples if they continue to follow His teaching but to which I point out that it is by my believing in Him in helping me to follow Him is the first commandment for abiding in Him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

See how I apply all of your references about obeying in how I obey? By believing in Him to help me to follow Him. Jesus Christ really is the Good Shepherd and so you should obey Him by believing in Him so you can rest in Him for all things, not just for salvation that you are saved no matter what, but for following Him to bear fruit as His disciples till one day He brings us Hoem perfect as vessels unto honor in His House which is to His glory, not for anything we did.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus addressing a woman to defer her from doing that which she was doing.

You think you just nullified Jesus saying we have to obey by saying that?

So what was He deferring the woman to the word of God to do rather than honor His mother, Mary?

What? Jesus says those who obey are his mother and brother and sister.

What every believer is under judgment to do; the only way to honor the Father is by only honoring the Son.

But guess what? I needed His help to serve Him and nothing else in His name when I was confronted by that holy laughter movement and so what boast in my choice to serve the Lord Jesus Christ only when I had to rely on Him to help me to do that?

That doesn't mean God doesn't want you to get out of other false beliefs.

As for Matthew 12:50, how does one do the will of the Father in becoming His brother, sister, and mother? By believing in Him. That is how one gets the seal of adoption whereby we call God Father.

Jesus says you become BLESSED as a family member BY OBEYING HIM.

Don't let this happen to you, brother. Read and believe and don't try to escape what is written.

So how can you obey by doing the best you can by keeping that pledge when He has chosen you to d His work in because of His new Covenant of what He will do for you to bear much fruit and all He asks of you is to believe Him.

We have to believe that we have to obey him. Jesus tells us how to become a child of God and then he will help us after that.

 

[God's Truth]

John 15:14 is something you should consider in regards to that "pledge" of yours because in context, this was written.

You have a big problem with the word pledge.
When you die to the sins of the world is that a pledge? Did you promise to die to the sins of the world?

Romans 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jesus said that to his apostles. He said that to them so that they would not leave him.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Again, Jesus is speaking to HIS APOSTLES, and is warning them not to leave him.

John 8:31 is Jesus acknowledging the believers and signified how they shall be His disciples if they continue to follow His teaching but to which I point out that it is by my believing in Him in helping me to follow Him is the first commandment for abiding in Him.

You don't get IN him until you obey him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

See how I apply all of your references about obeying in how I obey? By believing in Him to help me to follow Him. Jesus Christ really is the Good Shepherd and so you should obey Him by believing in Him so you can rest in Him for all things, not just for salvation that you are saved no matter what, but for following Him to bear fruit as His disciples till one day He brings us Hoem perfect as vessels unto honor in His House which is to His glory, not for anything we did.

You are going against Jesus who tell us how to be the one he saves.
Jesus says plainly to obey him.
Why do you want to keep going against that and say, no, and to only believe?

 

[GodB4Us]

You think you just nullified Jesus saying we have to obey by saying that?

What? Jesus says those who obey are his mother and brother and sister.


That doesn't mean God doesn't want you to get out of other false beliefs.

Jesus says you become BLESSED as a family member BY OBEYING HIM.

Don't let this happen to you, brother. Read and believe and don't try to escape what is written.


We have to believe that we have to obey him. Jesus tells us how to become a child of God and then he will help us after that.

What commandments are we to do in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost at our salvation?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Think about that for a moment with Him because we need Jesus Christ in us so we can do His commandments.

Since this is pretty important, Jesus would have cited His commandments leading up to verse 15 in order to get that promise of the Holy Ghost at our salvation.

John 14:1
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

He said to believe "Me' as God over and over and that is the commandments He has been saying for His disciples to get the Holy Ghost at their salvation moment after He has gone to ( ascended to ) the Father.

So those are the commandments in John 14:15 for believers to receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at their salvation moment when they are born again of the Spirit by believing in Him.

 

[GodB4Us]

You have a big problem with the word pledge.
When you die to the sins of the world is that a pledge? Did you promise to die to the sins of the world?

Romans 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.


Jesus said that to his apostles. He said that to them so that they would not leave him.


Again, Jesus is speaking to HIS APOSTLES, and is warning them not to leave him.

You don't get IN him until you obey him.

You are going against Jesus who tell us how to be the one he saves.
Jesus says plainly to obey him.
Why do you want to keep going against that and say, no, and to only believe?

Yes. I do have a problem with pledge, because you do not seem to see the consequence for making a pledge to God and yet it is okay if you break it but keep on trying?

#1 God cannot help you keep your pledge. It is your pledge and therefore by His words, you have to do it ALL.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

God warns saints not to make vows they cannot finish nor pay in full as He will destroy the works of your hands; signaling your pledge is your work; and not His work. Making a pledge can cause your flesh to sin by breaking that pledge.

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

So the idea that God will give grace for you to keep trying to keep that pledge, God forbids because Christ is not a minister of sin.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If we could make ourselves good husbands and good fathers and good Christians and do good by making a pledge to follow Jesus, why did Jesus even bother to come? Christ would have died in vain.

That is why Jesus was speaking against believers making oaths and expounded by saying not to even swear by that oath the seriousness of you desiring to keep that pledge when YOU cannot do His work in you for following Him.

You either believe Him that He will help you to follow Him by faith in Him & all His promises to us that is from His New Covenant or you do not believe Him that He is able to fulfill and finish His New Covenant to you.