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The 2 Kinds of Faith of Abraham

What commandments are we to do in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost at our salvation?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Think about that for a moment with Him because we need Jesus Christ in us so we can do His commandments.
Jesus tells us how to get saved.
You don't know that?
He tells us we have to admit we are sinners.
We have to be as little children, little children have to do everything their parent says to do.
We have to humble ourselves, confess our sins, and repent of them, and call on Jesus to help us, to save us, to give us his Spirit.

The New Testament/New Covenant started with John the baptizer who prepared the way for Jesus , when he had the people repent of their sins.

Since this is pretty important, Jesus would have cited His commandments leading up to verse 15 in order to get that promise of the Holy Ghost at our salvation.
What?
Are you blind to all the teachings from Jesus?
John 14:1
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

He said to believe "Me' as God over and over and that is the commandments He has been saying for His disciples to get the Holy Ghost at their salvation moment after He has gone to ( ascended to ) the Father.
We have to believe we have to obey Jesus.
Get out of the snare of the devil.
Who but the devil would be behind people thinking they don't have to obey?


Some scriptures say ‘believe’ some say ‘obey’, for to believe in Jesus means we have to OBEY HIM.

King James Bible

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


New American Standard Bible

John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

So those are the commandments in John 14:15 for believers to receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at their salvation moment when they are born again of the Spirit by believing in Him.
Nonsense.
Why do you fight so hard against obeying Jesus?
Have you ever given up any sin for Jesus, any?
 
Yes. I do have a problem with pledge, because you do not seem to see the consequence for making a pledge to God and yet it is okay if you break it but keep on trying?

#1 God cannot help you keep your pledge. It is your pledge and therefore by His words, you have to do it ALL.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

God warns saints not to make vows they cannot finish nor pay in full as He will destroy the works of your hands; signaling your pledge is your work; and not His work. Making a pledge can cause your flesh to sin by breaking that pledge.
DO YOU PLAN ON BREAKING THE VOW TO GOD ABOUT DYING TO THE SINS OF THE WORLD?

Did you tell God you would die to the sins of the world? If yes, it is a vow, because you are in big trouble if you said you pledge, or vow, or if you just said, "I die to the sins of the world and live to please Jesus" but not do it!!!

If you didn't, then you didn't come into the covenant.

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

So the idea that God will give grace for you to keep trying to keep that pledge, God forbids because Christ is not a minister of sin.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If we could make ourselves good husbands and good fathers and good Christians and do good by making a pledge to follow Jesus, why did Jesus even bother to come? Christ would have died in vain.
You asked me this before AND I TOLD YOU, BUT YOU KEEP copy/pasting the same thing as if I didn't reply.

Do you not know why Jesus came and died for us?

I don't think you know.
That is why Jesus was speaking against believers making oaths and expounded by saying not to even swear by that oath the seriousness of you desiring to keep that pledge when YOU cannot do His work in you for following Him.

You either believe Him that He will help you to follow Him by faith in Him & all His promises to us that is from His New Covenant or you do not believe Him that He is able to fulfill and finish His New Covenant to you.
Good grief man, it only takes one scripture to make me believe the truth. You read a lot of scriptures that say obey, and you read a lot that says believe.
You don't nullify the scriptures that say obey to try to justify a fake faith alone doctrine.

Jesus' words are Spirit and life. You wont' have the Spirit and life if you don't eat Jesus, we eat Jesus by obeying Jesus.
 
King James Bible

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


New American Standard Bible

John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
That is why I go by the KJV because obeying is by believing the Son as not obeying is by not believing the Son. That is why I keep telling you that believing in Him is how we are saved; that is how we obey the gospel by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Nonsense.
Why do you fight so hard against obeying Jesus?
Have you ever given up any sin for Jesus, any?
I tried to give up sins the best I can but I find He does a better job when I trust Him to deliver me from my sins and is still keeping me from them as well as this former dog from my former vomit. Kudos to Jesus for how I am following Him.

So when you find yourself frustrated by your pledge in following Jesus, try asking Him to do it and maybe you will see that our confidence is supposed to be on Him all the time for following Him as He will finish His work in us to His glory.
 
DO YOU PLAN ON BREAKING THE VOW TO GOD ABOUT DYING TO THE SINS OF THE WORLD?

Did you tell God you would die to the sins of the world? If yes, it is a vow, because you are in big trouble if you said you pledge, or vow, or if you just said, "I die to the sins of the world and live to please Jesus" but not do it!!!

If you didn't, then you didn't come into the covenant.
By believing in Him is how you enter into that New covenant with Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

This is the new Covenant testifying to what God is going to do. How can man add to it with their filthy rags of righteousness by adding a pledge to God as if God needs a pledge from them to do His Covenant? Where in God's New Covenant is He asking man anything to do like making a pledge? Nowhere in sight. Was hat an oversight or is He telling us He is going tio do this from which all a child can do is believe Him. So you better believer Him.

Hebrews 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Easy believism in Jesus Christ as our Savior that He will save all those who believe in Him is for salvation just as easy believism in Him as our Good Shepherd is how we follow Him, because we are taking Him at His Word, the New Covenant, that He is going to do it.


Easy believism as it is applied today as if no one has to do good after they are saved is NOT the easy believism in the Bible. The esy believism in the Bible has the just living by faith in Jesus Christ for all things, that they are saved simply for believing in Him and they can follow Him by believing Him to be our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him because that is what a Good Shepherd does to His sheep. Do you believe Him as able to do that or do you still believe you have to resort to your own power by your religious flesh and will power to follow Him?
You asked me this before AND I TOLD YOU, BUT YOU KEEP copy/pasting the same thing as if I didn't reply.

Do you not know why Jesus came and died for us?

I don't think you know.

To save sinners from their sins as well as give them eternal life for all those who believe in Him and to have an abundant life in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.
Good grief man, it only takes one scripture to make me believe the truth. You read a lot of scriptures that say obey, and you read a lot that says believe.
Post #23 in this hread is proof that to believe in Him is all that is required from us to "obey" Him.
You don't nullify the scriptures that say obey to try to justify a fake faith alone doctrine.
When you had compared John 3:36 in the KJV with the NASB, to believe in Jesus Christ is obeying Jesus Christ whereas not believing in Jesus Christ is NOT obeying Jesus Christ.
Jesus' words are Spirit and life. You wont' have the Spirit and life if you don't eat Jesus, we eat Jesus by obeying Jesus.
Jesus said that so we may believe Him and His words for life.

Look a hat He has said earlier for how believers were to receive the bread of life that gives life to the world and He was not talking about communion either.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

Jesus had told them how to receive this bread of life by coming to & believing in Him, but they still had their mind set n eating that bread like their fathers did in the wilderness in eating manna from heaven for why they did not believe Him.

More proof on how we are saved? Read on.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There you go. Scripture citing the Father's will on how we are saved plainly enough.
 
That is why I go by the KJV because obeying is by believing the Son as not obeying is by not believing the Son.
You think the KJV doesn't say we have to obey Jesus?
You are not blessed as a disciple, family member, and friend if you don't obey Jesus.

We are blessed as a disciple, family member, and friend if we do what Jesus says.


Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.


That means you are not blessed and saved unless you obey him.
That is why I keep telling you that believing in Him is how we are saved; that is how we obey the gospel by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The gospel of Jesus is about repenting of your sins.

Peter was speaking the gospel message to Cornelius and his whole household, and in the message it speaks about John's baptism of repentance.

Acts 10:37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—


Obeying God is who God gives His Spirit to.
The reason Peter went to Cornelius' house is because Cornelius was a RIGHTEOUS MAN who feared God, and he was praying to God.



Acts 10:1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”


Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."
I tried to give up sins the best I can but I find He does a better job when I trust Him to deliver me from my sins and is still keeping me from them as well as this former dog from my former vomit. Kudos to Jesus for how I am following Him.
You still had to repent of those sins. You still had to have every intention of stopping that sin and even try to do it yourself.
So when you find yourself frustrated by your pledge in following Jesus,
I died to the sins of the world and prove my repentance, and any sins that I can't stop on my own Jesus helps me---it doesn't mean what you teach---it doesn't mean we don't have to do what Jesus says to do and repent of our sins to get saved.

God saves repentant sinners.
try asking Him to do it and maybe you will see that our confidence is supposed to be on Him all the time for following Him as He will finish His work in us to His glory.
You are trying to justify not obeying Jesus and repenting of sins to get saved.

We have to repent of our sins and believe his shed blood on the cross washes those sins away.
 
By believing in Him is how you enter into that New covenant with Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

This is the new Covenant testifying to what God is going to do. How can man add to it with their filthy rags of righteousness by adding a pledge to God as if God needs a pledge from them to do His Covenant? Where in God's New Covenant is He asking man anything to do like making a pledge? Nowhere in sight. Was hat an oversight or is He telling us He is going tio do this from which all a child can do is believe Him. So you better believer Him.

Hebrews 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


It is Abraham's faith versus circumcision.

Read a little bit further from the scripture you posted.



BUT NOTE THAT YOU POSTED HEBREWS WHEN IT SHOULD BE ROMANS.

So you might see the truth if you read a little farther.

You were taught wrong by false teachers.



Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

It is about ABRAHAM AND PERTAINING TO THE FLESH, AS IN CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH.
Read a little farther down, Paul even says the word, CIRCUMCISION.

9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.


So you see, it is faith versus the purification work of circumcision of the flesh.
You have to think about it if you want the truth.
 
By believing in Him is how you enter into that New covenant with Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

This is the new Covenant testifying to what God is going to do. How can man add to it with their filthy rags of righteousness by adding a pledge to God as if God needs a pledge from them to do His Covenant? Where in God's New Covenant is He asking man anything to do like making a pledge? Nowhere in sight. Was hat an oversight or is He telling us He is going tio do this from which all a child can do is believe Him. So you better believer Him.

Hebrews 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Easy believism in Jesus Christ as our Savior that He will save all those who believe in Him is for salvation just as easy believism in Him as our Good Shepherd is how we follow Him, because we are taking Him at His Word, the New Covenant, that He is going to do it.


Easy believism as it is applied today as if no one has to do good after they are saved is NOT the easy believism in the Bible. The esy believism in the Bible has the just living by faith in Jesus Christ for all things, that they are saved simply for believing in Him and they can follow Him by believing Him to be our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him because that is what a Good Shepherd does to His sheep. Do you believe Him as able to do that or do you still believe you have to resort to your own power by your religious flesh and will power to follow Him?


To save sinners from their sins as well as give them eternal life for all those who believe in Him and to have an abundant life in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.

Post #23 in this hread is proof that to believe in Him is all that is required from us to "obey" Him.

When you had compared John 3:36 in the KJV with the NASB, to believe in Jesus Christ is obeying Jesus Christ whereas not believing in Jesus Christ is NOT obeying Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that so we may believe Him and His words for life.

Look a hat He has said earlier for how believers were to receive the bread of life that gives life to the world and He was not talking about communion either.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

Jesus had told them how to receive this bread of life by coming to & believing in Him, but they still had their mind set n eating that bread like their fathers did in the wilderness in eating manna from heaven for why they did not believe Him.

More proof on how we are saved? Read on.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There you go. Scripture citing the Father's will on how we are saved plainly enough.

We have to believe that we have to obey this man named Jesus.

The Jews believed in God the Father and KNEW THEY HAD TO OBEY GOD.

Now, they had to go through JESUS to REMAIN God's.

It doesn't mean they only have to believe and not do right.

That is dead faith.

No such thing as obeying is to believe we only have to believe and not obey!
 
This is the new Covenant testifying to what God is going to do. How can man add to it with their filthy rags of righteousness by adding a pledge to God as if God needs a pledge from them to do His Covenant? Where in God's New Covenant is He asking man anything to do like making a pledge? Nowhere in sight. Was hat an oversight or is He telling us He is going tio do this from which all a child can do is believe Him. So you better believer Him.
You were taught by false teachers about the filthy rags scripture.

It is a dumb Calvin/Luther false teaching. It is never ever wrong to obey God. Obeying God does not make what we do as a filthy rag.

God did not like it that the Jews could sin, do a righteous act and give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins.
They weren't sorry for their sins.
They wouldn't stop sinning, they would not repent.
It made their righteous blood offerings like a filthy rag offering.


Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!

Their offerings were meaningless because they were not sorry for their sins.


Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Meaningless Offerings

10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.


Did you read that? The people were bad sinners and didn't repent of their sins, but would come to give an animal for a blood offering, and since the offerings were from unrepentant sinners, it make the blood offerings a filthy rag offering.

You were taught wrong, now you are taught right! Repent of the false beliefs and stop believing and teaching your falseness.
 
It is Abraham's faith versus circumcision.

Read a little bit further from the scripture you posted.



BUT NOTE THAT YOU POSTED HEBREWS WHEN IT SHOULD BE ROMANS.

So you might see the truth if you read a little farther.

You were taught wrong by false teachers.



Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

It is about ABRAHAM AND PERTAINING TO THE FLESH, AS IN CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH.
Read a little farther down, Paul even says the word, CIRCUMCISION.

9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.


So you see, it is faith versus the purification work of circumcision of the flesh.
You have to think about it if you want the truth.
Yeah I goofed on the wrong reference. Thanks for the correction but the reference still applies for why Abraham was counted righteous because he believed God. That is the truth pointed out in that reference.
 
We have to believe that we have to obey this man named Jesus.

The Jews believed in God the Father and KNEW THEY HAD TO OBEY GOD.

Now, they had to go through JESUS to REMAIN God's.

It doesn't mean they only have to believe and not do right.

That is dead faith.

No such thing as obeying is to believe we only have to believe and not obey!
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 
Believe it or not, there are 2 kinds of faith of Abraham towards God that has been addressed in scripture.

The faith without works is where Abraham believed God for why Paul referred to that faith as the same as faith in Jesus Christ for salvation without works..
There are two kinds of faiths or powers to believe un seen. Satan the counterfeiter would have mankind to believe it is all one in the same faith like many of the wiles.

One generated by the fleshly mind of man inspired from earth as personal opinion and another as it is written the law of God inspired from heaven .Therefore two different teaching masters the temporal flesh seen and the eternal Holy Spirit not seen.

James 2 seems to be great place to search out the matter of faith (power of God). James 2 begins with a loving commandment ...not to have the power of Christ's labor of love or work of faith shown by the three days and nights propmised labor demonstration of the Son and the father in respect to flesh of any man or creature.

The word faith in chapter of James 2 is a faith generated by the mind of God not seen . We could say "do not have the power of Gods faith in respect to Abraham or Rehab he works with us the treasure of the power is not of us.

Note. . faith or works Christ . . . . . . . not generated by the creature mankind but is generated by the Faithfull Creator who is not a man as us. Let there be and it was good the good testimony of faith (Christs )in us our rest.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

When it comes to biblical works yoked with him our load can be ligher if we hear his voice and not hareden . But faith is a works . Lke a fire creahker both as need to bring glory . Fireworks
 
Yeah I goofed on the wrong reference. Thanks for the correction but the reference still applies for why Abraham was counted righteous because he believed God. That is the truth pointed out in that reference.
I gave you scripture that says it is faith versus CIRCUMCISION and you just dismissed the truth.
 
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
You don't even know that is about the JEWS who didn't want to stop doing the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL works of the law.

You weren't taught by Jesus you were taught by false teachers.
 
I gave you scripture that says it is faith versus CIRCUMCISION and you just dismissed the truth.
And
You don't even know that is about the JEWS who didn't want to stop doing the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL works of the law.

You weren't taught by Jesus you were taught by false teachers.
Is there blindness? Sure, but why blame the other when God has to open the eyes & the ears to see and hear the truth in His words even for myself?

Since this is a war of principality, then maybe it is best we take a break from these discussions and pray for each other instead, okay brother?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Because once our open discussions descend to judging the other rather than addressing the issue, then it becomes an argument instead, and it can allow the devil to tempt us into biting & devouring one another and so let this not be. since it is on God to cause the increase.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
 
There are two kinds of faiths or powers to believe un seen. Satan the counterfeiter would have mankind to believe it is all one in the same faith like many of the wiles.

One generated by the fleshly mind of man inspired from earth as personal opinion and another as it is written the law of God inspired from heaven .Therefore two different teaching masters the temporal flesh seen and the eternal Holy Spirit not seen.

James 2 seems to be great place to search out the matter of faith (power of God). James 2 begins with a loving commandment ...not to have the power of Christ's labor of love or work of faith shown by the three days and nights propmised labor demonstration of the Son and the father in respect to flesh of any man or creature.

The word faith in chapter of James 2 is a faith generated by the mind of God not seen . We could say "do not have the power of Gods faith in respect to Abraham or Rehab he works with us the treasure of the power is not of us.

Note. . faith or works Christ . . . . . . . not generated by the creature mankind but is generated by the Faithfull Creator who is not a man as us. Let there be and it was good the good testimony of faith (Christs )in us our rest.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

When it comes to biblical works yoked with him our load can be ligher if we hear his voice and not hareden . But faith is a works . Lke a fire creahker both as need to bring glory . Fireworks
For any one to share their faith in God to provide for the poor in saying that to the poor, they should lead by example ( works ) in the eyes of the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that is about to perish from the elements and starvation. That is the kind of faith James was talking about that requires works, but faith in Jesus Christ requires no work les they deny Him as able to save them for all those that believe in Him to be saved. Jesus is indeed the Saviour,
 
And

Is there blindness? Sure, but why blame the other when God has to open the eyes & the ears to see and hear the truth in His words even for myself?
You have blindness when you don't see that the Jews didn't want to give up the purification works of the law.
They didn't want to believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

They wanted to keep living by sacrificing lambs to take away their sins.
Since this is a war of principality, then maybe it is best we take a break from these discussions and pray for each other instead, okay brother?
I pray for you, but I won't ever stop talking about the truth.
Because once our open discussions descend to judging the other rather than addressing the issue,
Judging? You want me to go through all your posts to me and show you judging?
then it becomes an argument instead, and it can allow the devil to tempt us into biting & devouring one another and so let this not be. since it is on God to cause the increase.
No such thing what you say. Paul argued and debated boldly and publicly. We have to go by what Jesus says, not by what your false teachers taught you.
 
For any one to share their faith in God to provide for the poor in saying that to the poor, they should lead by example ( works ) in the eyes of the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that is about to perish from the elements and starvation. That is the kind of faith James was talking about that requires works, but faith in Jesus Christ requires no work les they deny Him as able to save them for all those that believe in Him to be saved. Jesus is indeed the Saviour,

You seem to miss the point the faith revealed in James 2 is the exclusive faith that comes from the work of Christ who worked in Abraham and Rehab . . not from them .No power to believe is attributed to the flesh .

Faith is a work (Let there be) it cannot be separated from the testimony (and it was good).

Note . . .(my addition to keep a point)

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works,(Christ's working in him to both will and do the good pleasure of the father ) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith (Christ's) wrought with his (Christ's power) works, and by works (Christs) was faith (Christ's) made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works (Christ) a man is justified, and not by faith (Christ's) only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Philipians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:


2 Corothians 4:13 7 But we (including our brother in the lord Jesus) have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.(including our brother in the lord Jesus)
 
You seem to miss the point the faith revealed in James 2 is the exclusive faith that comes from the work of Christ who worked in Abraham and Rehab . . not from them .No power to believe is attributed to the flesh .

Faith is a work (Let there be) it cannot be separated from the testimony (and it was good).

Note . . .(my addition to keep a point)

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works,(Christ's working in him to both will and do the good pleasure of the father ) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith (Christ's) wrought with his (Christ's power) works, and by works (Christs) was faith (Christ's) made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works (Christ) a man is justified, and not by faith (Christ's) only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Philipians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:


2 Corothians 4:13 7 But we (including our brother in the lord Jesus) have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.(including our brother in the lord Jesus)
I understand what you are saying but you cannot apply the words of James in that way.

What the church was doing in expressing TO the poor, the church's faith in God to provide for the poor, the church was doing it to get out of helping the poor after church service that were about to perish from the elements and starvation rather than meet the immediate needs of the poor from the collection done at church service.

So what the church was doing in disrespecting the poor from the beginning of that chapter to also giving them an empty blessing benediction of God's Providence to the poor after church service, Christ was not leading them to do that. It is in this, James was rebuking the church for doing, thinking that the church can get away with it by voicing faith in God to provide to the poor without leading by example ( the actual work expressing that church's faith ) to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were about to perish from starvation and the elements from the church's collection done at church service.

Thank you for sharing, and although I agree with the truth you shared regarding Philippians 2:13-14 & 2 Corinthians 4:7, the reference in James regarding Abraham's faith in God to provide, was James showing what the church was not doing when expressing their faith in God to provide to the poor by failing to lead by example for why the church's faith in God to provide is seen as dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide will not profit the poor nor save the poor from perishing from the elements and starvation..
 
You have blindness when you don't see that the Jews didn't want to give up the purification works of the law.
They didn't want to believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

They wanted to keep living by sacrificing lambs to take away their sins.

I pray for you, but I won't ever stop talking about the truth.

Judging? You want me to go through all your posts to me and show you judging?

No such thing what you say. Paul argued and debated boldly and publicly. We have to go by what Jesus says, not by what your false teachers taught you.
The blindness in our discussion is an errant NIV & NASB version of yours for why you cannot see the truth in His words as kept in the KJV. Jesus had shared the warning from the Father that we will need His help & discernment which Bible loved Him to keep His words for us to follow Him by and to use as meat in discerning good and evil by.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Since we agree that the Holy Spirit will not use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people by turning it around for His own use by uttering His intercessions out loud, we compare the NASB with the KJV.

All Bible versions has this truth for John 16:13.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

John 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. NASB 1995

John 16:1313 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

Okay? All Bible versions testify that the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for His own use by uttering His intercessions out loud from Himself. Now we go to Romans 8:26-27.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the [a]saints according to the will of God. NASB 1995

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

The NIV & the NASB just testified that the Holy Spirit can utter His own groanings out loud from Himself in giving His intercessions whereas the KJV maintains the truth in His words in John 16:13 by citing that the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings from Himself. In the KJV, this explains how the Spirit's silent intercessions ae given for each and every believer by how this "he" Whom is Christ Jesus that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16, is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father due to the truth that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man per 1 Timothy 2:5 as it is Christ alone that answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers per John 14:13-14. That is why everything that the Holy Spirit does in the ministry and in the Son's answers to prayers, the Holy Spirit gives the credit & glory to the Son for, per John 16:14-15.

Scripture cannot go against scripture for why discernment from Him is needed to see the actual meat in His words to discern good & evil. So the NIV & the NASB is wrong. Wrong, Wrong. Wrong.

Here is something else the NIV & the NASB is wrong about.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NIV

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God [a]for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NASB 1995

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: KJV

Pledge is hardly an appeal nor vise versa and so discernment is needed from Him by discerning what that response actually is that saves us by going to 1 Corinthians 1:17-18 & 21.

1 Corinthians 1:
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. NIV

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in [a]cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who [b]are perishing, but to us who [c]are being saved it is the power of God.


21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the [d]message preached to save those who believe. NASB 1995

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God..... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. KJV

Since scripture cannot go against scripture, the truth maintained in 1 Corinthians 1:21 in the NIV & the NASB 1995 & the KJV can be seen whereas the notion that we are in the process of being saved is in error in the NIV and the NASB 1995 but not in the KJV because the KJV is testifying to Paul's and other believer's current state as saved since having believed in the preaching of the cross of Jesus Christ.

So 1 Corinthians 1:21 in the NIV & the NASB is contrary and opposes how 1 Corinthians 1:18 & 1 Peter 3:21 testifies in those Bible versions for why the false teaching you are under is why you do not see the evil for doing a pledge to God which your pledge is about what you are going to do and not about believing what God is going to do per His New Covenant and denying what He has done for all those who believe in that preaching of the cross because they are saved.

If you do not believe that about the Bible versions being wrong and the KJV has it right, then what about Romans 8:26-27 being wrong in the NIV & the NASB 1995? Are you going to concede that the Holy Spirit can now use tongues for private use just to defend that pledge to God or will the Lord help you swallow that pride in yourself for trying to keep a pledge to follow Him and instead rest in Him & all His promises to you to help you to follow Him by faith alone?

You cannot do both. Either you are following Him by keeping that pledge or you are following Him, believing Him to be the Good Shepherd & Friend that He is in helping you to follow Him because you trust in Him to keep His New Covenant to you? One is resorting to your own power and denying that power as coming from Him for how you are following Him while the other is testifying of Him as your Good Shepherd in seeking His glory for how you are following Him.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

By your pledge & the breaking of it, is the knowledge of sin for why it is not of faith but of the law.
 
Is there blindness? Sure, but why blame the other when God has to open the eyes & the ears to see and hear the truth in His words even for myself?
God opens the eyes OF THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

You preach against obeying and repenting to get saved and to stay saved.


Proverbs 1:23 Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings.
 
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