The 2 Kinds of Faith of Abraham

[Garee]

I understand what you are saying but you cannot apply the words of James in that way.

What the church was doing in expressing TO the poor, the church's faith in God to provide for the poor, the church was doing it to get out of helping the poor after church service that were about to perish from the elements and starvation rather than meet the immediate needs of the poor from the collection done at church service.

So what the church was doing in disrespecting the poor from the beginning of that chapter to also giving them an empty blessing benediction of God's Providence to the poor after church service, Christ was not leading them to do that. It is in this, James was rebuking the church for doing, thinking that the church can get away with it by voicing faith in God to provide to the poor without leading by example ( the actual work expressing that church's faith ) to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were about to perish from starvation and the elements from the church's collection done at church service.

Thank you for sharing, and although I agree with the truth you shared regarding Philippians 2:13-14 & 2 Corinthians 4:7, the reference in James regarding Abraham's faith in God to provide, was James showing what the church was not doing when expressing their faith in God to provide to the poor by failing to lead by example for why the church's faith in God to provide is seen as dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide will not profit the poor nor save the poor from perishing from the elements and starvation..

I do not think you do understand the point I am making .It is exactly what the opening loving commandment requires . Not to have the power of God unseen Holy Spirit that works in us according to Philippians 2:13-14 & 2 Corinthians 4:7 in respect to any man seen to include the Son of man, Jesus our brother in the Lord.

Not such thing as church's faith they are the ones in 2 Corinthians 4:7 that have the treasure of the power but it is not of what the eyes see the temporal.

Believers walk or trust God not seen by the faith of Christ that does work in them according to Philippians 2:13-14.

The reference using the poor does not change the commandment in verse 1 but rather defines the parable the signified understanding . Therefore using the temporal things seen "clothing" as a way of showing. . not to have the un-seen faith of Christ that works in us in respect to persons which again includes the flesh of the Son of man Jesus who clearly said his own dying flesh it does not profit for any thing (no power John 6)

James 2:2-5 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Blasphemy is not having a clothing issue or fashion issue .

Blasphemy is attributing the power of the faith of God that alone works in us in respect to mankind seen "the church" violating. "Do not have" the opening commandment

James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

 

[God's Truth]

The blindness in our discussion is an errant NIV & NASB version of yours for why you cannot see the truth in His words as kept in the KJV.

I told you more than once that I can use any scripture you want.
Give the scripture and try to back up your false claim about me.
You have to ignore, twist, deny, a lot of scriptures to defend the false faith alone doctrine.

Jesus had shared the warning from the Father that we will need His help & discernment which Bible loved Him to keep His words for us to follow Him by and to use as meat in discerning good and evil by.

Jesus gives understanding to those who obey, and it is exactly what you go against, you go against obeying to get saved and to stay saved. You say to obey is to have faith and nothing else, yet that is not obeying, for Jesus tells us many things to do to get saved and to stay saved.

We are told to humble ourselves.
We are told to change and become like little children, little children who are in a position where they have to obey their parent.
Jesus says to repent of sins.
He tells us not to give up give out or give in.
You deny all that and say just believe.
We have to believe that we have to obey this man named Jesus, for the Jews believed in and belonged to God, and now they had to believe Jesus to remain God's.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

That scripture proves you wrong. It says if you love Jesus you will obey and the Father will love you and they will make their home with you.
Do you think "keep my words" means put them under your pillow?
It means obey his words.

Since we agree that the Holy Spirit will not use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people by turning it around for His own use by uttering His intercessions out loud, we compare the NASB with the KJV.

I have no idea what you said. Can you explain it better?

All Bible versions has this truth for John 16:13.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

John 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. NASB 1995

John 16:1313 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

Okay? All Bible versions testify that the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for His own use by uttering His intercessions out loud from Himself.

What are you talking about? You need to explain that.

I want to say that the Spirit of truth is only given to those who obey.

Acts 5:32​

​

King James Version​

​

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Now we go to Romans 8:26-27.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the [a]saints according to the will of God. NASB 1995

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

The NIV & the NASB just testified that the Holy Spirit can utter His own groanings out loud from Himself in giving His intercessions whereas the KJV maintains the truth in His words in John 16:13 by citing that the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings from Himself. In the KJV, this explains how the Spirit's silent intercessions ae given for each and every believer by how this "he" Whom is Christ Jesus that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16, is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father due to the truth that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man per 1 Timothy 2:5 as it is Christ alone that answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers per John 14:13-14. That is why everything that the Holy Spirit does in the ministry and in the Son's answers to prayers, the Holy Spirit gives the credit & glory to the Son for, per John 16:14-15.

I can't make out what you are trying to say about those scriptures and the different translations.

Nowadays tongue speakers also falsely use the scripture Romans 8:26. Romans 8:26 says, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” However, speaking in tongues is “words” and not groans. This scripture is about when we are weak and all we can do is groan, as when we are in great despair–then the Spirit intercedes for us to God, for we do not even have to speak words. The Spirit doesn’t intercede for us by groaning to the Father for us, but intercedes for us with words that we were too distraught to say.

Scripture cannot go against scripture for why discernment from Him is needed to see the actual meat in His words to discern good & evil. So the NIV & the NASB is wrong. Wrong, Wrong. Wrong.

Here is something else the NIV & the NASB is wrong about.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NIV

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God [a]for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NASB 1995

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: KJV

Pledge is hardly an appeal nor vise versa and so discernment is needed from Him by discerning what that response actually is that saves us by going to 1 Corinthians 1:17-18 & 21.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

When you tell God you will die to the sins of the world and be crucified with Christ---your word to God has to be truthful!

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.​

21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. NIV

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in [a]cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who [b]are perishing, but to us who [c]are being saved it is the power of God.​

21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the [d]message preached to save those who believe. NASB 1995

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God..... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. KJV

You don't have understanding because you go against obeying, and obeying is how we get understanding. You go by what someone taught you, and they taught you wrong.
Paul was glad that he didn't baptize because people who were getting baptized were saying they were baptized unto the men that baptized them!

Paul did baptize some people, and, he would preach the word and Apollos would do the baptizing.

Not only that, preaching Christ crucified IS ABOUT DYING FOR THE SINS WE ARE TO REPENT OF DOING.

When one wants to get saved, they have to admit they are a sinner, confess their sins, and repent of them, THEN THEY HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS' shed blood on the cross washes those sins away.

No such thing as to obey means only believe and don't repent, or obey only by believing and be careful to do nothing else. NONSENSE.

Since scripture cannot go against scripture, the truth maintained in 1 Corinthians 1:21 in the NIV & the NASB 1995 & the KJV can be seen whereas the notion that we are in the process of being saved is in error in the NIV and the NASB 1995 but not in the KJV because the KJV is testifying to Paul's and other believer's current state as saved since having believed in the preaching of the cross of Jesus Christ.

So 1 Corinthians 1:21 in the NIV & the NASB is contrary and opposes how 1 Corinthians 1:18 & 1 Peter 3:21 testifies in those Bible versions for why the false teaching you are under is why you do not see the evil for doing a pledge to God which your pledge is about what you are going to do and not about believing what God is going to do per His New Covenant and denying what He has done for all those who believe in that preaching of the cross because they are saved.

I told you not to use the word pledge then. You can't let it go because you think it save you and your false beliefs and teachings.

If you die to sins of the world and crucify yourself with Christ, and then back out of it later---YOU ARE IN BAD TROUBLE, WHETHER YOU SAID you PLEDGE or PROMISED or NOT. Think about it. It is ridiculous what you are saying.

If you do not believe that about the Bible versions being wrong and the KJV has it right, then what about Romans 8:26-27 being wrong in the NIV & the NASB 1995? Are you going to concede that the Holy Spirit can now use tongues for private use just to defend that pledge to God or will the Lord help you swallow that pride in yourself for trying to keep a pledge to follow Him and instead rest in Him & all His promises to you to help you to follow Him by faith alone?

I prove nowadays tongues are false and I can use any version to prove it to you.
I can use KJV to prove to you that your false faith alone teaching is dead, like a dead body without the spirit that needs to be buried.
You won't receive the Spirit of God by faith alone.
There are so many scriptures that prove you wrong. I will remember to only use the KJV with you, since you try to twist out of the truth by complaining about other scriptures too much.

You cannot do both. Either you are following Him by keeping that pledge or you are following Him, believing Him to be the Good Shepherd & Friend that He is in helping you to follow Him because you trust in Him to keep His New Covenant to you? One is resorting to your own power and denying that power as coming from Him for how you are following Him while the other is testifying of Him as your Good Shepherd in seeking His glory for how you are following Him.

You won't receive any power if you don't obey Jesus' words, and he says a lot more than believe, and he never ever says believe that you don't have to obey, or believe that you don't have to do anything else, or believe that you don't have to repent.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul is speaking about the works of the law, which are the purification works. You misunderstand Paul. James and Peter heard of the people who misunderstand Paul about faith alone. James calls people such as yourself foolish, and Peter says they are ignorant and uneducated. See 2 Peter 3:16, 17.

By your pledge & the breaking of it, is the knowledge of sin for why it is not of faith but of the law.

I won't leave God, and I love His Covenant.

 

[Garee]

For any one to share their faith in God to provide for the poor in saying that to the poor, they should lead by example ( works ) in the eyes of the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that is about to perish from the elements and starvation. That is the kind of faith James was talking about that requires works, but faith in Jesus Christ requires no work les they deny Him as able to save them for all those that believe in Him to be saved. Jesus is indeed the Saviour,

James uses the poor as to clothing (what the eyes see) to help us understand how blasphemy against our unseen God is formed .Clothng is used a a metphor in that parable .A person must mix faith (eternal) with what the eyes see (temporal) if they desire to hear the understanding hid

Yes it requires the work of God working in us the power to both reveal the will and empower the Christian to perform it to his good eternal pleasure (the gospel)

The kind of faith James is speaking of is the exclusive faith of Christ as it is written .We have it in these earthen body of death but would never say it came from dying mankind .. who is working out the wage of sin (death) all the days of their lives .

Yoked with Christ' power (faith) our daily burden can be lighter and we have a living hope past the grave (not purgatory)

 

[GodB4Us]

God opens the eyes OF THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

You preach against obeying and repenting to get saved and to stay saved.

Proverbs 1:23 Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings.

God will have to open your eyes to the truth that the call to repentance in order to be saved by Him is by repenting from unbelief by believing in Him.

By His grace, I preach that believing in Him as our Savior as being able to save all those who believe in Him is how we are saved by Him; and I preach that we are to continue to believe in Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him daily. As it is, I am following Him by the grace of God by faith in Jesus C
Christ just as by that same grace of God & my faith in Him is how I have been saved by.

The difference between you and me is the emphasis is on yourself to do this by keeping a pledge whereas my emphasis is on believing on Jesus Christ to do it all.

I have repented by believing in Him for why I am saved since the calling of the gospel and I am repenting from sins daily by looking to the author & finisher of my faith to help me lay aside every weight & sin daily in thought word & deed.

Whereas by your pledge is the knowledge of sin for how you have not kept that pledge to God for why you will not be justified in trying to keep. You are under the law of that pledge for why & how you will be judged by His words, unless you repent, ask Jesus to set you free from that pledge, and rest in Him & His promises to you from the New Covenant that He will help you to follow Him. So believe in Him for all things.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Live by faith in Him if you wis to please God in what you are trusting Him for or else be judged by your pledge to Him thus displeasing God for not believing Him for all things, especially for following Him.

 

[GodB4Us]

I told you more than once that I can use any scripture you want.
Give the scripture and try to back up your false claim about me.
You have to ignore, twist, deny, a lot of scriptures to defend the false faith alone doctrine.

Jesus gives understanding to those who obey, and it is exactly what you go against, you go against obeying to get saved and to stay saved. You say to obey is to have faith and nothing else, yet that is not obeying, for Jesus tells us many things to do to get saved and to stay saved.

We are told to humble ourselves.

Humbling yourself is not what you are doing when you are living by a pledge to God as if that is the answer of a good conscience rather than believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is your work for why you are angry because you know you cannot keep that pledge perfectly.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

We are told to change and become like little children, little children who are in a position where they have to obey their parent.

Religiously? No. Surrendering from being religious thus becoming like children for all they can do is trust the Lord in taking Him at His word that by believing in Him is how we are all saved? Yes.

Jesus says to repent of sins.

In order to be saved, He calls us to repent from unbelief by believing in Him a the calling of the gospel to be saved for how we receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

That happened before any one confessed him with their mouths, before anyone came forward, and even before any one got water baptized in His name, thus proof that believing in Him is how we are saved.

He tells us not to give up give out or give in.
You deny all that and say just believe.

How is it to give up and give in when we are turning to Him to believe in Him, not only for salvation for having believed in Him but to keep on surrendering that trust in Him for following Him too as a child would.

We have to believe that we have to obey this man named Jesus, for the Jews believed in and belonged to God, and now they had to believe Jesus to remain God's.

That scripture proves you wrong. It says if you love Jesus you will obey and the Father will love you and they will make their home with you.
Do you think "keep my words" means put them under your pillow?
It means obey his words.

I obey His words by believing in Him that He will help me to abide in His words. That is what a Good Shepherd does and this Good Shepherd is God. I testify that He does a good job in helping me to follow Him being my Good Shepherd.

I have no idea what you said. Can you explain it better?

What are you talking about? You need to explain that.

I want to say that the Spirit of truth is only given to those who obey.

Acts 5:32​

​

King James Version​

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Again, The Holy Ghost is given to all those who believe in Him and that is what is meant by obeying Him. Did you not see the proof of the cause and effect in Acts 10:43-44?

I can't make out what you are trying to say about those scriptures and the different translations.


Nowadays tongue speakers also falsely use the scripture Romans 8:26. Romans 8:26 says, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” However, speaking in tongues is “words” and not groans. This scripture is about when we are weak and all we can do is groan, as when we are in great despair–then the Spirit intercedes for us to God, for we do not even have to speak words. The Spirit doesn’t intercede for us by groaning to the Father for us, but intercedes for us with words that we were too distraught to say.

We agree that tongues are not for private use and that the real God's gift of tongues is for God to speak unto the people; NOT for the Holy Spirit to use for praying back to God in gibberish nonsense.

That is what John 16:13 testify of in ALL Bible versions that the Holy Spirit cannot utter anything from Himself, but speak what He hears and so any Bible veriosn that says otherwise as if the holy Spirit can utter groans or sighs, regardless of being wordless, is a lie as opposing what John 16:13 says in that Bible version.

When you tell God you will die to the sins of the world and be crucified with Christ---your word to God has to be truthful!

In context of that message, are you dead to the law or are you not under that pledge in seeking to obtain righteousness by keeping that pledge by the law? Then you are not dead if you are alive under the law keeping that pledge to God.

We are dead when we surrender and die to self thus denying ourselves as able to follow him, lea alone to save ourselves and believe that Jesus Christ is able to help us to follow Him for without Him, we can do nothing.

You don't have understanding because you go against obeying, and obeying is how we get understanding. You go by what someone taught you, and they taught you wrong.
Paul was glad that he didn't baptize because people who were getting baptized were saying they were baptized unto the men that baptized them!

Paul did baptize some people, and, he would preach the word and Apollos would do the baptizing.

Not the point Paul was making because of water baptism was necessary for salvation, he would be preaching both but he deferred from water baptism to testify that God is pleased to save those that believe the preaching of the cross.

Not only that, preaching Christ crucified IS ABOUT DYING FOR THE SINS WE ARE TO REPENT OF DOING.

Christ's purpose is for Him to destroy the works of the devil in our lives. He did not wait until we tried our best for us to be good enough to die for.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

You cannot do His work in you by making a pledge. That is why you are failing in keeping your pledge. Try trusting Him instead to keep His new Covenant to you & live by faith in Him as your Good Shepherd to you if you wish to follow Him.

When one wants to get saved, they have to admit they are a sinner, confess their sins, and repent of them, THEN THEY HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS' shed blood on the cross washes those sins away.

When sinners that are salves to sin know that Jesus is going to deliver them from their sins as well as give eternal life to all who believe in Him, then I can see why they would come to Him in placing all their hopes in Jesus Christ to do.

No such thing as to obey means only believe and don't repent, or obey only by believing and be careful to do nothing else. NONSENSE.

I told you not to use the word pledge then. You can't let it go because you think it save you and your false beliefs and teachings.

If you die to sins of the world and crucify yourself with Christ, and then back out of it later---YOU ARE IN BAD TROUBLE, WHETHER YOU SAID you PLEDGE or PROMISED or NOT. Think about it. It is ridiculous what you are saying.

I prove nowadays tongues are false and I can use any version to prove it to you.
I can use KJV to prove to you that your false faith alone teaching is dead, like a dead body without the spirit that needs to be buried.
You won't receive the Spirit of God by faith alone.
There are so many scriptures that prove you wrong. I will remember to only use the KJV with you, since you try to twist out of the truth by complaining about other scriptures too much.

You won't receive any power if you don't obey Jesus' words, and he says a lot more than believe, and he never ever says believe that you don't have to obey, or believe that you don't have to do anything else, or believe that you don't have to repent.

Actually, I find myself following Him a whole lot better when I trust Him in being my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him than I ever did in trying to keep any man made bondage. One of the reasons I am thankful to Him & will praise Him for in Heaven.

Paul is speaking about the works of the law, which are the purification works. You misunderstand Paul. James and Peter heard of the people who misunderstand Paul about faith alone. James calls people such as yourself foolish, and Peter says they are ignorant and uneducated. See 2 Peter 3:16, 17.

There is more to the law than just circumcision. When any one resort to their own power to make themselves good or to do good, by making a pledge to God, they are denying Him as able to do that as if His New Covenant is lacking something for God to do it for why they feel the need to make a pledge, thus adding to His Covenant which God abhors because they do not believe He can do it.

I won't leave God, and I love His Covenant.

You have been saved since you had believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead just like the Catholics are, but are still laboring in unbelief just as the Catholics are in their dead works of Catholicism.

These be works that deny Him and indeed denying the Lord that bought them, but regardless of the risk of being denied by Him in being left behind, they are still bought with a price and sealed as His to be still in His House as vessels unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even to those that believe in His name.

 

[GodB4Us]

James uses the poor as to clothing (what the eyes see) to help us understand how blasphemy against our unseen God is formed .Clothng is used a a metphor in that parable .A person must mix faith (eternal) with what the eyes see (temporal) if they desire to hear the understanding hid

Yes it requires the work of God working in us the power to both reveal the will and empower the Christian to perform it to his good eternal pleasure (the gospel)

The kind of faith James is speaking of is the exclusive faith of Christ as it is written .We have it in these earthen body of death but would never say it came from dying mankind .. who is working out the wage of sin (death) all the days of their lives .

Yoked with Christ' power (faith) our daily burden can be lighter and we have a living hope past the grave (not purgatory)

Sometimes believers can engage in dead works that deny Him, this voiding faith and why some will be naked of their wedding garment for why they will get left behind, but they are still saved because they have been bought with a price & sealed as His for why He will finish His work even in those left behind by burning off of that foundation all works that deny Him till all that remains is that foundation as well as the seal of adoption that is not going any where.

Hence where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House for they are the ones that did not depart from iniquity for why they were denied by Him.

The call to depart from iniquity is given to all saved believers, both carnal saints and former believers, so that by trusting Him to help them see the truth, they can lean on Him to depart from iniquity to be received as that vessel unto honor in His House for when the Bridegroom comes.

 

[God's Truth]

God will have to open your eyes to the truth that the call to repentance in order to be saved by Him is by repenting from unbelief by believing in Him.

Paul taught people who never even heard of our God, so how are they going to repent of not believing in Him?

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

We are told to REPENT, and that is OF SINS.

The difference between you and me is the emphasis is on yourself to do this by keeping a pledge whereas my emphasis is on believing on Jesus Christ to do it all.

I believe in what Jesus says, and I trust him. Jesus says if you do this and do that, then he will save me and give me his Spirit.
It is about trusting him.

I have repented by believing in Him

That is not what scripture says to repent by believing in Him.
We are to confess our sins and repent of them and believe his blood washes those sins away.

for why I am saved since the calling of the gospel and I am repenting from sins daily by looking to the author & finisher of my faith to help me lay aside every weight & sin daily in thought word & deed.

You sound like you still struggle too much. It gets easier if you know the truth and repent.

Whereas by your pledge is the knowledge of sin for how you have not kept that pledge to God for why you will not be justified in trying to keep.

What? lol You better acknowledge your sin to be save. What makes you think I have not kept my pledge? Not be justified in trying to keep? Jesus helps those who try to stop sinning, it is to them he helps.

You are under the law of that pledge for why & how you will be judged by His words, unless you repent, ask Jesus to set you free from that pledge, and rest in Him & His promises to you from the New Covenant that He will help you to follow Him. So believe in Him for all things.

Oh so now you admit we have to repent of doing wrong. Except you are the one who needs to repent for believing and preaching a false doctrine. You can do it, I have done it before, and was blessed greatly for it.

Live by faith in Him if you wis to please God in what you are trusting Him for or else be judged by your pledge to Him thus displeasing God for not believing Him for all things, especially for following Him.

No such thing as repenting for obeying God.

 

[God's Truth]

Humbling yourself is not what you are doing when you are living by a pledge to God as if that is the answer of a good conscience rather than believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is your work for why you are angry because you know you cannot keep that pledge perfectly.

You have an imagination. I am not angry for obeying God, there is nothing I would rather be doing. If I am not obeying then I am sinning. Jesus' words are powerful, they are Spirit and life. If you don't obey you won't get the Spirit and life. We eat Jesus by obeying Jesus.

Religiously? No. Surrendering from being religious thus becoming like children for all they can do is trust the Lord in taking Him at His word that by believing in Him is how we are all saved? Yes.

Becoming as a child means be ready to do everything God the Father says to do.

In order to be saved, He calls us to repent from unbelief by believing in Him a the calling of the gospel to be saved for how we receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That is a mantra of false teachers, they say repent of unbelief. Who but Satan is behind that false teaching to tell us not to repent of sins?

That happened before any one confessed him with their mouths, before anyone came forward, and even before any one got water baptized in His name, thus proof that believing in Him is how we are saved.

They confessed their sins and then were water baptized. Water baptism is a ceremony, a symbol of what has already happened in one's heart.

When a person is water baptized, they repent of their sins, they promise to die to the sins of the world, they are then crucifying themselves with Christ, they fall back as if dead, they go under the water as if buried, they rise up out of the water with their sins washed away by the word and the blood of Christ, they now live their new born again life to please Jesus.

How is it to give up and give in when we are turning to Him to believe in Him, not only for salvation for having believed in Him but to keep on surrendering that trust in Him for following Him too as a child would.

Children have to do what their parent says to do. Jesus says you will never enter unless you do that, become as a little child. Jesus also says repent or perish. Jesus doesn't say just believe or perish.

I obey His words by believing in Him that He will help me to abide in His words.

We have to believe that we have to obey him.

That is what a Good Shepherd does and this Good Shepherd is God. I testify that He does a good job in helping me to follow Him being my Good Shepherd.

Repent then for preaching false faith alone doctrine, you telling people not to repent of their sins to get saved.

Again, The Holy Ghost is given to all those who believe in Him and that is what is meant by obeying Him. Did you not see the proof of the cause and effect in Acts 10:43-44?.

Believe we have to obey him.

Just like you acting like "keep his words" don't mean obey, you think it means put his words under your pillow?

These be works that deny Him and indeed denying the Lord that bought them,

Obeying Jesus doesn't deny him! Trying to be justified by the old law and get circumcised in the flesh and observe special days is denying him. Want to offer animal sacrifices is denying him.

but regardless of the risk of being denied by Him in being left behind, they are still bought with a price and sealed as His to be still in His House as vessels unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even to those that believe in His name.

We have to repent of our sins, our sins.

To repent is to be sorry for your sins and have every intention of stopping them.

Acts 8:22 Repent, therefore, of your wickedness,

Did you read that? Repent not just of unbelief, but of wickedness.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14 (NIV)

 

[Garee]

You have an imagination. I am not angry for obeying God, there is nothing I would rather be doing. If I am not obeying then I am sinning. Jesus' words are powerful, they are Spirit and life. If you don't obey you won't get the Spirit and life. We eat Jesus by obeying Jesus.

Becoming as a child means be ready to do everything God the Father says to do.

That is a mantra of false teachers, they say repent of unbelief. Who but Satan is behind that false teaching to tell us not to repent of sins?

They confessed their sins and then were water baptized. Water baptism is a ceremony, a symbol of what has already happened in one's heart.

When a person is water baptized, they repent of their sins, they promise to die to the sins of the world, they are then crucifying themselves with Christ, they fall back as if dead, they go under the water as if buried, they rise up out of the water with their sins washed away by the word and the blood of Christ, they now live their new born again life to please Jesus.


Children have to do what their parent says to do. Jesus says you will never enter unless you do that, become as a little child. Jesus also says repent or perish. Jesus doesn't say just believe or perish.

We have to believe that we have to obey him.

Repent then for preaching false faith alone doctrine, you telling people not to repent of their sins to get saved.

Believe we have to obey him.

Just like you acting like "keep his words" don't mean obey, you think it means put his words under your pillow?

Obeying Jesus doesn't deny him! Trying to be justified by the old law and get circumcised in the flesh and observe special days is denying him. Want to offer animal sacrifices is denying him.

We have to repent of our sins, our sins.

To repent is to be sorry for your sins and have every intention of stopping them.

Acts 8:22 Repent, therefore, of your wickedness,

Did you read that? Repent not just of unbelief, but of wickedness.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14 (NIV)

Repentance is a work that God works in us .It involves two turnings ,Him turning us so that then we can return to Him as he comforts us


His faith working in us to both will and perform it to His good pleasure. Natural man cannot repent he has no power (faith)

 

[GodB4Us]

Paul taught people who never even heard of our God, so how are they going to repent of not believing in Him?

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

We are told to REPENT, and that is OF SINS.

Paul told them about Jesus Christ so they can believe in Him as that UNKNOWN God to be saved.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

By the time Paul had told them of God having raised Jesus Christ from the dead, mockers had cut in and interrupted him, but some say they will hear of the matter regarding Jesus Christ later on from Paul again.

Not really a good reference for either side of this discussion because Paul never said what they needed to repent from even though he did go to the trouble to tell them about Jesus Christ for why I see that the moment they believe in Him, they are saved.

I believe in what Jesus says, and I trust him. Jesus says if you do this and do that, then he will save me and give me his Spirit.
It is about trusting him.

I'd say He said when we believe in Him, we are saved per John 3:15 plain and simple. That is the simplicity of the gospel for it pleases God to save those who believe in Him.

That is not what scripture says to repent by believing in Him.

Acts 10:43-44 did for how the Gentiles got the Holy Ghost. I do not see them doing anything but once they hread the word that by believing in Him is how they get the remission of sins, they got the gift of the Holy Ghost then & there.

We are to confess our sins and repent of them and believe his blood washes those sins away.

If a sinner was informed that Jesus will save them from their sins as well as give them eternal life, then all that is asked of them is to believe in Jesus Christ.

Discipleship can be seen as doing that which you had quoted as we look to Jesus christ daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that ace as a saved believer so we can be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House.

You sound like you still struggle too much. It gets easier if you know the truth and repent.

I do not struggle any more when He has set me free from all commitments, pledges, promises, and man made covenant with my mouth to finally rest in Him and all His promises to me under the New Covenant as I see Him helping me to follow Him when I rely on Him all the time.

What? lol You better acknowledge your sin to be save. What makes you think I have not kept my pledge? Not be justified in trying to keep? Jesus helps those who try to stop sinning, it is to them he helps.

When you try to encourage others not to give up but keep on trying to keep that pledge, you pretty much admitted that man can fail at keeping that pledge as if by personal knowledge.

Oh so now you admit we have to repent of doing wrong. Except you are the one who needs to repent for believing and preaching a false doctrine. You can do it, I have done it before, and was blessed greatly for it.

No such thing as repenting for obeying God.

Again, I look to Jesus Christ to help me to repent as well as doing the things He wants me to do, like love my enemies, because I can do nothing without Him.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

By believing in Him that He will help me to repent is obeying God.

 

[God's Truth]

Repentance is a work that God works in us .It involves two turnings ,Him turning us so that then we can return to Him as he comforts us

We have to repent of our sins to get saved. Do you believe that? God does not make us do anything. What is this turning stuff you are talking about?

His faith working in us to both will and perform it to His good pleasure.

His faith working in us? Can you give scriptures for what you say?

Natural man cannot repent he has no power (faith)

You are a Protestant and have been taught wrong. I know that sounds hard to hear, but I had to repent for following falseness myself before I had the truth.
the natural man means the man who only wants to sin with his flesh and doesn't want to repent of his sins.

 

[GodB4Us]

We have to repent of our sins to get saved. Do you believe that? God does not make us do anything. What is this turning stuff you are talking about?

@Garee @Phedup @Bethel @NetChaplain @Chad @Christ4Ever @Bill @PloughBoy @Mayflower @Sue D. @AnneOminous @GRACE ambassador @Slic_Shoes @Rookster @Waggles @Admon Mikha'el

It is the Father that draws all men unto the Son John 6:44

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

As it is the Father that hides it from the prudent & he wise and yet reveals His Son unto babes for how any of us can believe in Him to be saved per Matthew 11:25-27.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So our believing in Him is how we are saved since our believing in Him is a work manifested by God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So it is the Father that gives us to the Son for the Son to save us by our believing in Him which is a work of God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That is why how we are saved is not done by the will of the flesh nor by the will of man as if by a pledge but by God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

His faith working in us? Can you give scriptures for what you say?

Faith is also a fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Faith being a fruit of righteousness is by Jesus Christ FYI.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

You are a Protestant and have been taught wrong. I know that sounds hard to hear, but I had to repent for following falseness myself before I had the truth.

It does not matter what denomination any saved believer is in; they are to prove all things trusting Jesus Christ to help them use the meat of His words in scripture ( I rely on the KJV ) to discern good & evil by His words. A cult has been described as teaching 9 truths and one lie but that can happen to any saved believer in their walk with Him. This is why we are not to follow a specific leader blindly because they can go astray and wind up leading the whole flock astray. We are to follow Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd; in being His disciples and not of a church nor of a famous Christian leader. Even to prove or reprove by Him what we have leaned so we may bear more fruit in the knowledge of Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

the natural man means the man who only wants to sin with his flesh and doesn't want to repent of his sins.

Seeing how warnings are given to believers not to sow to the works of the flesh is to acknowledge that saved believers are tempted to sin daily for why we are running that race by faith in Jesus Christ as the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

For the sinner that wants to be saved and thus delivered from his sins, they need to believe that is what Jesus Christ came to do so they will no longer live in sin because after they are saved by Jesus Christ by believing in Him, they are to continue to believe in Him as their Good Shepherd, the author & finisher of their faith to keep them from their sins as in leading them away from temptations and delivering them from the evil one because we are warned that the devil is a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, even saved believers still.

That is why our walk with Him is not as a religious man walks where the world praises the man for keeping his pledge religiously but our walk with Him is of faith for why people & ourselves will see God's work in us and praise God for.

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

 

[Garee]

We have to repent of our sins to get saved. Do you believe that? God does not make us do anything. What is this turning stuff you are talking about?

Christian's to include the Son of man Jesus living in a earthen body of death have no power to turn and repent .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Since the power is not of us he must first turn us by His power and then in return being empowered we can repent and return to Him.

Clearly two works of turning . Remember according to the two parables as parallels ( Jonas compared with the Son of man Jesus) Jonas was dragged or drawn to perform the will of the father and Jesus repented and did the will of the father with delight


Jerimiah 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[Daniel L.]

Paul is speaking about the works of the law

Not when he speaks of Abraham, because there was no law of Moses at the time of Abraham, only the Law of God. So what Paul is saying, is that Abraham was justified without any works of any kind, neither of the law of Moses nor of the Law of God. He is saying: faith alone without any works at all, so no man can boast.

-Now, you will have to choose whom will ye serve, "the one who justifies the ungodly", or the True God of Abraham:

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Exodus 23:7 [...] I will not justify the wicked.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Daniel L.]

there are 2 kinds of faith

Yes, dead faith and True Faith, only one of these saves, you know which one it is. By dead faith shall no flesh be justified.

 

[God's Truth]

Christian's to include the Son of man Jesus living in a earthen body of death have no power to turn and repent .

Of course we can turn and have the power to do so.

No such thing in the scriptures that say we don't, what you say is from false teachers.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We don't have the power to purify ourselves to reconcile us to God, but we definitely have power to obey God.
Think about it more, for you never obeyed your parents in anything? You never obeyed your teacher? You grew up and never obeyed the rules of the road to get your license? You never obeyed your governments laws, your boss, a map to get where you wanted to go, a car manual to fix your car?
You know you have. We can read what Jesus tells us to do and do it, for that is how to be saved.

God doesn't give His Holy Spirit to those who don't first believe Him and repent of their sins.

Since the power is not of us he must first turn us by His power and then in return being empowered we can repent and return to Him.

That is not in the scriptrues.

Clearly two works of turning . Remember according to the two parables as parallels ( Jonas compared with the Son of man Jesus) Jonas was dragged or drawn to perform the will of the father and Jesus repented and did the will of the father with delight

What? Where do you get Jesus repented?

By the way, God does not drag us, what you are saying is a protestant's mantra.

Jerimiah 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

That passage says we have to repent of our sins. It is about how we have to repent. Now do know that those who belong to God, believe God chastens them, disciplines them when they do wrong. So the passage lets us know that we have to repent of our sins to get saved, and to stay saved.

 

[GodB4Us]

Yes, dead faith and True Faith, only one of these saves, you know which one it is. By dead faith shall no flesh be justified.

What faith is Paul talking about here that requires no works?

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

So what faith was James really talking about that requires works?

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James was talking about the church giving a blessing to the departing poor that God will provide for them by saying "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled" to the poor, as if by voicing that, God will make it happen to the poor, without leading by example to the poor by meeting their immediate needs from the collection done at church service.

It is in the eyes of the poor that the church's faith in God to provide that is dead seeing how the church was unwilling to lead by example and so the church's faith will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements & starvation.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

Once saved, believers are to trust Jesus Christ in being their personal Good Shepherd to help them lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son ( 1 John 1:3-9 ) to be received by the Bridegroom when He comes. If they are not found abiding in Him when He comes, then by any iniquity that denies Him, He will deny them, but even if they believe not in Him any more, He still abides. 2 Timothy 2:11-13

This is why even former believers are still to be called to depart from iniquity so they can avoid being denied by Him in becoming forever that vessel unto dishonor in His House as left behind form the rapture event; 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & 1 Corinthians9:24-27 & Revelation 2:18-25 & 2 Corinthians 5:7-11

 

[God's Truth]

Not when he speaks of Abraham, because there was no law of Moses at the time of Abraham, only the Law of God.

God told Abraham to get circumcised in the flesh.
It is faith versus the circumcision.
It is NOT faith versus obeying God and doing right like repenting of sins.

Circumcision in the flesh is the sign that a person is in a covenant with God and does the other purification works.

So what Paul is saying, is that Abraham was justified without any works of any kind,

Never.

Even before Abraham's faith is mentioned, Abraham OBEYING is mentions first.


Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.


Here in Hebrews, Paul QUOTES the old testament in Genesis, AND HE defends faith AND OBEDIENCE:


Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

neither of the law of Moses nor of the Law of God.

God had many laws that Abraham obeyed.

Genesis 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Genesis 26:4-5I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.

He is saying: faith alone without any works at all, so no man can boast.

No way, for faith alone is death and the BOASTING was done by the Jews who could boast in the purification works, they could boast in how many foreskins they took.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

-Now, you will have to choose whom will ye serve, "the one who justifies the ungodly", or the True God of Abraham:

What? Why are you making them two different?

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Exodus 23:7 [...] I will not justify the wicked.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

So now it sounds like you believe we have to believe and obey to get saved. You have some corrections to do with your beliefs.

 

[Daniel L.]

What faith is Paul talking about here that requires no works?

Paul was talking about dead faith, without works.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

Yes, he is:

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

There is no other faith:

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The faith that justifies, is the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

God told Abraham to get circumcised in the flesh.

Yes, and "Abraham obeyed my voice [...]". Abraham was justified after he did the works. When He believed God, he already had done the works and now, only needed faith to be justified, so when he believed he was seen as righteous, because his Faith was True Faith, with all the works he did. Had Abraham not obeyed God, he wouldn't have been justified, because he would have had dead faith, and wouldn't have been blessed.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, and "Abraham obeyed my voice [...]". Abraham was justified after he did the works. When He believed God, he already had done the works and now, only needed faith to be justified, so when he believed he was seen as righteous, because his Faith was True Faith, with all the works he did. Had Abraham not obeyed God, he wouldn't have been justified, because he would have had dead faith, and wouldn't have been blessed.

It is faith versus circumcision, not faith versus obedience.

Abraham's faith would be dead if he only had faith.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

The only time the KJV mentions faith alone, is to warn us of what kind of faith not to have.

No one is saved by faith alone first and then is expected to be obedience. We have to come to Jesus in faith and obedience to get saved. We have to come to Jesus and repent of our sins. We have to confess and repent of our sins to get saved, and to stay saved.