The Antidote For Predestination/Election Controversy

RJ · Oct 3, 2010

1 Timothy 1–5

In Chapter 2, verses 3-6, Paul sets aside any rational belief in which only certain people are chosen by God for salvation.

"… God our Savior … desires ALL MEN [emphasis added] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom FOR ALL [emphasis added], the testimony borne at the proper time."

Obviously, all men will not accept the free but priceless gift of life, forgiveness, salvation.

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" (John 5:39-41).

Be it pride or arrogance, none can claim ignorance, for the seeking heart will find his answer:

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him (Matthew 7:7-11)!

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

So we see from these passages the certainty that God's will for all men is their salvation. And He has provided the way—one mediator for all, Christ Jesus.

Boanerges · Oct 3, 2010

God opened the door to all who would come (1Ti 2:4). So while predestination is indeed a fairly prominent feature in the Epistles and not to be dismissed it is according to the foreknowledge of choices we make (1Pe 1:2), predestinated according to those He called (Rom 8:29-30) and man can chose reject the call of God (Isa 66:4).
Al these factors fit together nicely when you consider all the information the scriptures give on the subject and predestination fits together with free will quite nicely. God paid the price to save all men (1Jn 2:2) and wills that all be saved and yet not all will come.

Faith4Bride · Oct 21, 2010

RJ said:
1 Timothy 1–5

In Chapter 2, verses 3-6, Paul sets aside any rational belief in which only certain people are chosen by God for salvation.

"… God our Savior … desires ALL MEN [emphasis added] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom FOR ALL [emphasis added], the testimony borne at the proper time."

Obviously, all men will not accept the free but priceless gift of life, forgiveness, salvation.

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" (John 5:39-41).

Be it pride or arrogance, none can claim ignorance, for the seeking heart will find his answer:

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him (Matthew 7:7-11)!

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

So we see from these passages the certainty that God's will for all men is their salvation. And He has provided the way—one mediator for all, Christ Jesus.

I am sorry I dont believe you have accomplished what you set out to do.

RJ · Oct 22, 2010

Faith4Bride said:
I am sorry I dont believe you have accomplished what you set out to do.

That's fine.

RJ · Oct 22, 2010

Boanerges said:
God opened the door to all who would come (1Ti 2:4). So while predestination is indeed a fairly prominent feature in the Epistles and not to be dismissed it is according to the foreknowledge of choices we make (1Pe 1:2), predestinated according to those He called (Rom 8:29-30) and man can chose reject the call of God (Isa 66:4).
Al these factors fit together nicely when you consider all the information the scriptures give on the subject and predestination fits together with free will quite nicely. God paid the price to save all men (1Jn 2:2) and wills that all be saved and yet not all will come.

I like this, " when you consider all the information that God gives you" !

Joe in Arkansas · Oct 22, 2010

RJ said:
1 Timothy 1–5

"… God our Savior … desires ALL MEN [emphasis added] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom FOR ALL [emphasis added], the testimony borne at the proper time."

Obviously, all men will not accept the free but priceless gift of life, forgiveness, salvation.

I"m sorry but scripture does say that all men (not just a few) will accept the "free but priceless gift of life, forgiveness, and salvation". It is true that not all men will be in the church, but scripture clearly teaches that all men will be saved at the end of the harvest (end of the final age before Christ turns over the Kingdom to the Father). The church is merely the first fruits of the harvest. Why do you believe that God will not harvest the remaining crop? Even the poorly translated scripture you quoted above says that God will save all men. The verse when properly translated reads "...will have all men be saved and ...". But even if it should read "desires" as your translation says, all men will still be saved. Since when does God Almighty not get His desires??? Scripture (not mainstream Christianity) clearly teaches that God will have ALL desires:

 Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do. (Darby)

Isa 46:10-11 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

2 Chron 20:6 and he said, Jehovah, God of our fathers, art not thou God in the heavens, and rulest thou not over all the kingdoms of the nations? And in thy hand there is power and might, and none can withstand thee. (Darby)

The scripture you quoted above continues on and adds a key piece of information. Here is the full thought of that verse in the KJV:


1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The salvation of mankind does not happen all at once, but it will happen in "due time". The church will be saved first and will rule and reign will Christ. But the church will also be used in the final age (I call it the Lake of Fire age) to bring in the final and full harvest of mankind as represented by the Feast of Tabernacles. Mainstream Christianity cannot see past the Feasts of weeks (or First Fruits) when the Church receives its salvation at the 1st resurrection. God's plan for man continues on much further and is not complete until all men are saved. Christ will not lose anyone. Have you never looked closely at these verses:


John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The Father has given "all things" to Christ which most certainly includes all men. And John 6:37 states that everyone that the Father has given to Christ will come to Christ and He will not cast them out.

Again in John:


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

All men will be drawn to Christ (in due time) and will be raised up at the last day. The "last day" occurs at the time represented by the Feast of Tabernacles and not when Christ returns for His bride, the church. And what is Christ saying to those lost souls at the Feast of Tabernacles? Here is what He says:

 John 7:37-38 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The last day occurs at the end of the Lake of Fire age prior to Christ turning over the Kingdom to the Father. What does Christ say at that time? The same thing of course, only this time, scripture shows us that His Bride, the church will be saying it with Him:

 Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Christ was given the mission to "save the world" and Christ will not fail to save the world. However, the mainstream church teaches that Christ will fail and fail miserably. If God is love and love does not fail, how can Christ fail to save the world??? He can't fail and won't fail.

 1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 Cor 13:8 Love never fails;

And this parable teaches the same thing:


Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The "woman" is God the Father, the "leaven" is the world and Christ is the "three measures of meal". Christ is currently hidden in the world but just like leaven, He will not cease His work until the whole is leavened (all men saved). He came to save the world and He will do just that. The mainstream church just does not have the faith to believe it nor do they understand His plan to accomplish His mission.

I could go on and on with more scriptures but I have found that if a person will not believe these few scriptures I quoted above, then they will not believe no matter how many more I point out.

I'm sorry I have been so direct in my statements above and I hope I have not offended you but the mainstream teaching of "eternal hell" for those who reject Christ now is so hideous that I always get passionate when I refute it. I would love to share more scriptures with you on this subject if you have an interest to know more.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

Boanerges · Oct 22, 2010

I was not offended in the least but I am in total disagreement with you on this issue.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jesus Himself taught more about hell than anyone. I have known one who died cursing God- that one will not dwell eternally in His presence.
To refuse the call of God is quite scriptural and is rooted in the freewill that God has given man:
Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Joe in Arkansas · Oct 22, 2010

Boanerges said:
I was not offended in the least but I am in total disagreement with you on this issue.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jesus Himself taught more about hell than anyone. I have known one who died cursing God- that one will not dwell eternally in His presence.
To refuse the call of God is quite scriptural and is rooted in the freewill that God has given man:
Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Dear Boanerges,
Yes, to refuse the call of God will leave a person lost. But scripture clearly says that everyone in due time will accept the call of Jesus.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Do you not believe this double witness of scripture I just quoted?

Those persons in the symbolic "lake of fire" will be judged and caused to repent & accept Christ, just as those in His church have previously done. There is no scripture that places a time limit on Christ's mercy. There is however, a time limit on entering His church which is a special blessing bestowed upon those persons whom Christ has chosen. Do you not remember these scriptures:

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Psa 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Lam 3:22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1 Tim 4:10-11 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

Christ is the "Saviour of all men" but He has given a special salvation to those who believe first. How can Christ be the Saviour of all men if He do not save all men? To believe what you believe, a person must add the word "potential" to the verse - "who is the potential Saviour of all men, ...". Christ said not to add words to scripture, even if you are only doing it in your mind. Can't you objectively read this verse in 2 Tim and understand that it simply says that Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially those who believe but not exclusively.

As far as your comment on "free will", it is contrary to scripture. It is merely a church tradition. Scripture clearly says that God controls us and our wills. Yes, we have a will but it is not "free". Below is what scripture says about our wills and who controls them:

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps. (Darby)

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us. (Darby)

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

I have discussed God's plan for the Salvation of mankind and our lack of "free will" many times in the past with many other people. Those who have believed that Christ is NOT the Savoiur of all men and that man is free to do and think as he pleases, simply have not believed the scriptures even when confronted with them. They have allowed church tradition to rule supreme over scripture - just as the Pharisees in Jesus' time allowed their traditions to rule over scripture. It is no different now. If you don't have a love for the truth and search for it as for hidden treasure, the Lord will not allow you to find it.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

If the knowledge of God was laid out for the world to see as the mainstream church would have you believe, then why does scripture tell us to "search for it as for hidden treasures"??? God has hidden His truth and only reveals it to those HE chooses. We have no say in the matter. God rules supreme in all matter of this world (His world and His creation). The mainstream church raises man up to where man can overcome God's will. Man has no such power. Scripture says that God will save all men through His unfailing love but the mainstream church says that most men will reject His love and never come to Christ. I believe God and the scripture. In God's eyes, man is nothing. God will do all that He pleases to do.

Dan 4:35 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Darby)

God is in complete control over His creation. Nothing happens without God causing it to happen. NO ONE can go against God's will and subvert it. God created Satan to be evil and to do all the evil he does. Satan was not a mistake nor are all the people who currently reject God. All people will be saved in accordance with God's plan and in His timing - not one second early and not one second late. Where O' where is our faith to believe God and His Word? It is all but gone. No wonder Christ questioned whether or not He would find any faith on the earth when He returns.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

RJ · Oct 22, 2010

Joe in Arkansas said:
Dear Boanerges,
Yes, to refuse the call of God will leave a person lost. But scripture clearly says that everyone in due time will accept the call of Jesus.

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Do you not believe this double witness of scripture I just quoted?

Those persons in the symbolic "lake of fire" will be judged and caused to repent & accept Christ, just as those in His church have previously done. There is no scripture that places a time limit on Christ's mercy. There is however, a time limit on entering His church which is a special blessing bestowed upon those persons whom Christ has chosen. Do you not remember these scriptures:

Psa 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Lam 3:22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

1 Tim 4:10-11 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

Christ is the "Saviour of all men" but He has given a special salvation to those who believe first. How can Christ be the Saviour of all men if He do not save all men? To believe what you believe, a person must add the word "potential" to the verse - "who is the potential Saviour of all men, ...". Christ said not to add words to scripture, even if you are only doing it in your mind. Can't you objectively read this verse in 2 Tim and understand that it simply says that Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially those who believe but not exclusively.

As far as your comment on "free will", it is contrary to scripture. It is merely a church tradition. Scripture clearly says that God controls us and our wills. Yes, we have a will but it is not "free". Below is what scripture says about our wills and who controls them:

John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps. (Darby)

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us. (Darby)

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

I have discussed God's plan for the Salvation of mankind and our lack of "free will" many times in the past with many other people. Those who have believed that Christ is NOT the Savoiur of all men and that man is free to do and think as he pleases, simply have not believed the scriptures even when confronted with them. They have allowed church tradition to rule supreme over scripture - just as the Pharisees in Jesus' time allowed their traditions to rule over scripture. It is no different now. If you don't have a love for the truth and search for it as for hidden treasure, the Lord will not allow you to find it.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

If the knowledge of God was laid out for the world to see as the mainstream church would have you believe, then why does scripture tell us to "search for it as for hidden treasures"??? God has hidden His truth and only reveals it to those HE chooses. We have no say in the matter. God rules supreme in all matter of this world (His world and His creation). The mainstream church raises man up to where man can overcome God's will. Man has no such power. Scripture says that God will save all men through His unfailing love but the mainstream church says that most men will reject His love and never come to Christ. I believe God and the scripture. In God's eyes, man is nothing. God will do all that He pleases to do.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Darby)

God is in complete control over His creation. Nothing happens without God causing it to happen. NO ONE can go against God's will and subvert it. God created Satan to be evil and to do all the evil he does. Satan was not a mistake nor are all the people who currently reject God. All people will be saved in accordance with God's plan and in His timing - not one second early and not one "born anew"second late. Where O' where is our faith to believe God and His Word? It is all but gone. No wonder Christ questioned whether or not He would find any faith on the earth when He returns.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

I have heard this "Universalism" before, you even believe in the end, that the Devil will be reconcilled.

Christ will judge EVERYONE in the end and every knee will bow but not every bowed knee will be saved. Those unsaved,will be judged at the Great White Throne after the one thousand year reign of Christ on earth, at which time I am sure Christ reminds them of their Apostasy, then it's off to eternal Hell!

For me and the rest of the true Christians, he will say: 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

Jesus said " Truly, truly , I say to you, unless one is born anew, he can not see the Kingdom of God. "Being "Born Again" with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, or our Spiritual birth, God calls us Holy and Righteous and that is now and our savaltion is now. You must be in the flesh to be "Born Again", once a person dies in the flesh and who is not saved, they also die spiritually, for there is no "born anew" from that point.

I would advice others to error on the safe side and seek God and his saving Grace now and not wait for some theory to inevitably save you in the end!

Boanerges · Oct 22, 2010

Joe in Arkansas said:
But scripture clearly says that everyone in due time will accept the call of Jesus.

I would dearly love to see the scripture reference for that. Not everyone obeys God my friend.

Joe in Arkansas · Oct 22, 2010

Dear RJ,
Please don't put me in a box marked "universalism". I have not studied universalism and do not know whether I agree with it or not. My understanding of scripture comes from scripture and not from some prepackaged belief.

Yes, Christ will judge everyone. Without judgment, no one would be saved. Christ is judging His Church right now. He is not judging anyone else at this time. Do you know why judgment is a necessary component of our salvation? This is why :

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night, yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early; for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Without judgment, we would continue in our sins. Christ came to give us life and for us to have it more abundantly.

John 10:10 ...I came to give them life and for them to have it more abundantly.

Christ gave life to all men at the cross. Now, the penalty of sin (which is death) has been paid whether you believe in Christ or not. Christ forgave us (all men) and will give all men life again after we die. Death will not hold anyone now. Christ will resurrect us all back to life; His church first at the 1st resurrection and later, everyone else at the 2nd resurrection. If Christ had not paid the sin debt for all men, then not everyone could be resurrected. But Christ came to give all men "abundant life" which is a life free from sin. Judgment must occur to remove the sin from our lives. The sin debt has been paid at the cross but Christ must still do something to stop us from continuing to sin. That something is judgment. The church first and later, everyone else in the symbolic "lake of fire". In that lake of fire, people will learn righteousness. Then at the end, Christ will accept all men into the Kingdom of Heaven which is not a location but a state of being. That is what it is all about - to make sons & daughters of God in His image. We all have to know and experience evil in order to know what good is. Later, Christ will teach and empower us to reject the evil and accept only the good. It is a painful process to be birthed into a son of God but that is the way God has chosen to do it. He will not miscarry his children. He will see to it that all men are born again. After all, we are all his children and He loves us all. He has the power to accomplish His plan for us. And yes, His plan includes Satan and the fallen angels. Have you not ever read Col 1:16-20, Acts 3:20-21

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and Heb 9:26? Please read them. Clearly, from these scriptures you can understand that God is going to reconcile all things from His creation back to Him. That most certainly includes Satan and the fallen angels and ALL men. What is it about these scriptures that makes you believe God is NOT going to reconcile all things to Him at the end of the ages?

Matt 21:31 ...and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.

There was no question whether they would make it into the Kingdom of Heaven or not. Christ knows that even the Pharisees will make it at the end. There is an order and a time for all men to enter into the Kingdom. All men will make it, but just not at the same time.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

Boanerges · Oct 22, 2010

RJ said:
I have heard this "Universalism" before, you even believe in the end, that the Devil will be reconcilled.

You are quite correct RJ. To believe in Universalism one needs a very large pair of scissors with which they could curt out a lot of New Testament Scripture including the ones written in red (Christ's own Words). In a way universalism is it's own form of predestination as Universalists believe all will be saved in spite of rejecting Christ and living like the devil himself.

Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

O Judas and his sure punishment Jesus Himself said:
Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

RJ · Oct 22, 2010

Boanerges said:
You are quite correct RJ. To believe in Universalism one needs a very large pair of scissors with which they could curt out a lot of New Testament Scripture including the ones written in red (Christ's own Words). In a way universalism is it's own form of predestination as Universalists believe all will be saved in spite of rejecting Christ and living like the devil himself.

Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

O Judas and his sure punishment Jesus Himself said:
Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

I agree.

There is one critical flaw in the doctrine of Universalism, in that, if this doctrine were true, it would render God and Jesus out to be liars and false. Pauls said you could believe in the cross but if you did not believe in this one thing that give life, you were to be pitied among all men and so goes Univeralism.

This one thing is the ressurrected life of Jesus Christ. If you believe in the resurrection and have recieved the resurrected life of Christ then you know the truth, there is no Universalism. The ressurected life of Christ is what gives each Christian new spiritual life , now in the flesh. It is meant for the living, the Holy Spirit indwells the flesh spiritually. You, we, Christians, are resurrected to eternal life now; we were resurrected with Christ and have been made to sit in the heavenlys with him now! If you do not have the Holy Spirit in you now and you die, you die both in the flesh and in the spirit. Universalism would make the Resurrection null an void; there would be no reason for it if everyone is saved in the end!

RJ · Oct 22, 2010

Joe in Arkansas said:
Dear RJ,
Please don't put me in a box marked "universalism". I have not studied universalism and do not know whether I agree with it or not. My understanding of scripture comes from scripture and not from some prepackaged belief.

Yes, Christ will judge everyone. Without judgment, no one would be saved. Christ is judging His Church right now. He is not judging anyone else at this time. Do you know why judgment is a necessary component of our salvation? This is why :

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night, yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early; for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Without judgment, we would continue in our sins. Christ came to give us life and for us to have it more abundantly.

John 10:10 ...I came to give them life and for them to have it more abundantly.

Christ gave life to all men at the cross. Now, the penalty of sin (which is death) has been paid whether you believe in Christ or not. Christ forgave us (all men) and will give all men life again after we die. Death will not hold anyone now. Christ will resurrect us all back to life; His church first at the 1st resurrection and later, everyone else at the 2nd resurrection. If Christ had not paid the sin debt for all men, then not everyone could be resurrected. But Christ came to give all men "abundant life" which is a life free from sin. Judgment must occur to remove the sin from our lives. The sin debt has been paid at the cross but Christ must still do something to stop us from continuing to sin. That something is judgment. The church first and later, everyone else in the symbolic "lake of fire". In that lake of fire, people will learn righteousness. Then at the end, Christ will accept all men into the Kingdom of Heaven which is not a location but a state of being. That is what it is all about - to make sons & daughters of God in His image. We all have to know and experience evil in order to know what good is. Later, Christ will teach and empower us to reject the evil and accept only the good. It is a painful process to be birthed into a son of God but that is the way God has chosen to do it. He will not miscarry his children. He will see to it that all men are born again. After all, we are all his children and He loves us all. He has the power to accomplish His plan for us. And yes, His plan includes Satan and the fallen angels. Have you not ever read Col 1:16-20, Acts 3:20-21

and Heb 9:26? Please read them. Clearly, from these scriptures you can understand that God is going to reconcile all things from His creation back to Him. That most certainly includes Satan and the fallen angels and ALL men. What is it about these scriptures that makes you believe God is NOT going to reconcile all things to Him at the end of the ages?

Matt 21:31 ...and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.

There was no question whether they would make it into the Kingdom of Heaven or not. Christ knows that even the Pharisees will make it at the end. There is an order and a time for all men to enter into the Kingdom. All men will make it, but just not at the same time.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

With all due respect, you put yourself in that box my friend, not I. You can call it what you want but, your doctrine that you espouse has a name, it is called Universalism!

Joe in Arkansas · Oct 22, 2010

RJ said:
With all due respect, you put yourself in that box my friend, not I. You can call it what you want but, your doctrine that you espouse has a name, it is called Universalism!

Dear RJ,
I have posted many scriptures that state Christ is the Savior of the world and has the power to complete this task given to Him by the Father. You have not addressed those scriptures but rather have ignored them. If the doctrine of hell that the mainstream churches preach is true, then Christ would be the worst monster that has ever lived - to torture most of mankind in fire for eternity for no redeeming purpose whatsoever. Even this carnal world knows that doing such a thing would be evil. Christ said to love you enemies and do good to them. The Christ the churches teach say that He hates His enemies and will burn them without end. Can't you see the contradiction in the true Christ of scripture and the one taught by mainstream Christian tradition? It is no wonder why so many people in the world will not follow the Christ espoused by the worldly churches. Where is the love in torturing someone without end? If you would do such a thing in this country, you would be put in prison for life and be thought of as evil. But yet the churches say that Christ will do this horrible deed on an infinitely higher scale and then say it is justice. It makes me sick to hear this doctrine of hell preached. It is not scripture and my God of love would never do such a thing. Either Christ is love and mercy or He is not because scripture says He does not change. When He died on the cross, He forgave us our sins. When do you supposed He changed His mind on this?? Think about the doctrine of hell for a few minutes. It is hard to do because it is so horrible. Only Satan could come up with something this bad to discredit Christ with this world. It is no wonder why scripture says that Christ is "hidden" in this world because the true Christ is not preached from the pulpits. Please respond to my scriptures that say Christ is the world's Savior and explain to me why you can't believe them. Don't show me other mistranslated scriptures that you think contradict the ones I quoted. Scripture does not contradict itself. Also, please explained to me from scripture why you believe that Christ's love for this world will fail for most people and why you don't believe the scripture that says that "love does not fail"? You believe Christ's love will fail the billions and billions of people that the doctrine of hell says will be tortured forever for no redeeming purpose at all. That would be failure of the highest magnitude!

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

Faith4Bride · Oct 22, 2010

RJ said:
1 Timothy 1–5

In Chapter 2, verses 3-6, Paul sets aside any rational belief in which only certain people are chosen by God for salvation.

"… God our Savior … desires ALL MEN [emphasis added] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom FOR ALL [emphasis added], the testimony borne at the proper time."

Obviously, all men will not accept the free but priceless gift of life, forgiveness, salvation.

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" (John 5:39-41).

Be it pride or arrogance, none can claim ignorance, for the seeking heart will find his answer:

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him (Matthew 7:7-11)!

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

So we see from these passages the certainty that God's will for all men is their salvation. And He has provided the way—one mediator for all, Christ Jesus.

The problem here is that election and predestination are very real and very clear teachings of scripture. To believe that a few verses will prove them false when the bible clearly declares them is an issue.

Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The word is clear that God has chosen us in him- before the foundation of the world- This shows us that before the world was made God chose us in him and He chose us to be holy and without blame before him in love.

It tells us that he has predestined us to adoption according to the good pleasure of His will.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

He tells us that we were predestined according to Gods purpose and will- not because of ourselves, what we are , would be, would choose, but because only of Gods will who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

The deal is this people like to believe that they had control of their own salvation. They like to say " i chose christ" " i made that step" " i prayed the prayer" " i made a decision".- Then they can look at the lost and think that they should just choose like you did.

The problem is that salvation is not by " decision" it is not by " choice" it is not by saying a prayer.

Salvation is by grace through FAITH.

That means that you must first have faith to gain access into the grace of God which saves.

And Faith is a gift of God!

Some are ordained to eternal life. Some are not. Blessed is he who the Lord causes to come unto him.

As far as 1 tim this is what it says in context:

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men;

1Ti 2:2 for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity.

1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, [himself] man, Christ Jesus,

1Ti 2:6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony [to be borne] in its own times;

1Ti 2:7 whereunto I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I speak the truth, I lie not), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

The point here is not about God having all individual men to be saved. When he says in context who would have all men to be saved we have to look at what he said first. He said to make supplication for all men KINGS AND THOSE IN HIGH PLACES.- Then he makes sure to mention that he preaches to gentiles.

This is about God saving all kinds of men, jews, gentiles, poor, rich, slave, free(for example) in this case he is pointing out that God would even have people like kings and those in high places to be saved.

The word of God is true and what God would have, He will have. If God " would that all men be saved" and it meant individual men then all individual men would be saved because God says he will accomplish all his good pleasure.

Over and over this idea is repeated in the NT to show that God has moved from saving only israel- to all nations, tongues, peoples, tribes etc...

Faith4Bride · Oct 22, 2010

RJ said:
1 Timothy 1–5

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him (Matthew 7:7-11)!

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

So we see from these passages the certainty that God's will for all men is their salvation. And He has provided the way—one mediator for all, Christ Jesus.

Matt 7 and 2 peter 3 are speaking only to believers in the context of beleivers, not the world. and yes all creation is without excuse- that does not mean that election or predestination is any less true.

RJ · Oct 23, 2010

Joe in Arkansas said:
Dear RJ,
I have posted many scriptures that state Christ is the Savior of the world and has the power to complete this task given to Him by the Father. You have not addressed those scriptures but rather have ignored them. If the doctrine of hell that the mainstream churches preach is true, then Christ would be the worst monster that has ever lived - to torture most of mankind in fire for eternity for no redeeming purpose whatsoever. Even this carnal world knows that doing such a thing would be evil. Christ said to love you enemies and do good to them. The Christ the churches teach say that He hates His enemies and will burn them without end. Can't you see the contradiction in the true Christ of scripture and the one taught by mainstream Christian tradition? It is no wonder why so many people in the world will not follow the Christ espoused by the worldly churches. Where is the love in torturing someone without end? If you would do such a thing in this country, you would be put in prison for life and be thought of as evil. But yet the churches say that Christ will do this horrible deed on an infinitely higher scale and then say it is justice. It makes me sick to hear this doctrine of hell preached. It is not scripture and my God of love would never do such a thing. Either Christ is love and mercy or He is not because scripture says He does not change. When He died on the cross, He forgave us our sins. When do you supposed He changed His mind on this?? Think about the doctrine of hell for a few minutes. It is hard to do because it is so horrible. Only Satan could come up with something this bad to discredit Christ with this world. It is no wonder why scripture says that Christ is "hidden" in this world because the true Christ is not preached from the pulpits. Please respond to my scriptures that say Christ is the world's Savior and explain to me why you can't believe them. Don't show me other mistranslated scriptures that you think contradict the ones I quoted. Scripture does not contradict itself. Also, please explained to me from scripture why you believe that Christ's love for this world will fail for most people and why you don't believe the scripture that says that "love does not fail"? You believe Christ's love will fail the billions and billions of people that the doctrine of hell says will be tortured forever for no redeeming purpose at all. That would be failure of the highest magnitude!

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

<SUP>12</SUP>But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? <SUP id=en-NIV-28716 class=versenum>13</SUP>If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. <SUP id=en-NIV-28717 class=versenum>14</SUP>And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. <SUP id=en-NIV-28718 class=versenum>15</SUP>More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. <SUP id=en-NIV-28719 class=versenum>16</SUP>For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. <SUP id=en-NIV-28720 class=versenum>17</SUP>And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. <SUP id=en-NIV-28721 class=versenum>18</SUP>Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. <SUP id=en-NIV-28722 class=versenum>19</SUP>If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. 1 COR 12:18

Again, to not except the reason and timing of the resurrection, is the same as not believing in it and to be pitied! <SUP>18</SUP>Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. Get it? Paul is saying here that you must be "Born Again" in this life; if you die in this life without Christ, you are lost my friend! End of subject!

Faith4Bride · Oct 23, 2010

,Universalism is an emotion based theology.

The amount of scriptures that confirm that not all will be saved is amazing when studied.

Universalism always rests on a couple verses, devoid of the rest of scripture which then are twisted to mean what the emotion wants because the rest of scripture is not relied upon to interpret them.

These arguements always come with judgements against God and are emotionally driven.
"what kinda God would do that" " i wouldnt serve a God like that" etc...

Jesus in one chapter clearly gives us three witnesses that prove everyone will not be saved.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

It is clear that their worm will not die, and their fire will NEVER BE QUENCHED.

Joe in Arkansas · Oct 23, 2010

RJ said:
<sup>12</sup>But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? <sup id="en-NIV-28716" class="versenum">13</sup>If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. <sup id="en-NIV-28717" class="versenum">14</sup>And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. <sup id="en-NIV-28718" class="versenum">15</sup>More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. <sup id="en-NIV-28719" class="versenum">16</sup>For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. <sup id="en-NIV-28720" class="versenum">17</sup>And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. <sup id="en-NIV-28721" class="versenum">18</sup>Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. <sup id="en-NIV-28722" class="versenum">19</sup>If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. 1 COR 12:18

Again, to not except the reason and timing of the resurrection, is the same as not believing in it and to be pitied! <sup>18</sup>Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. Get it? Paul is saying here that you must be "Born Again" in this life; if you die in this life without Christ, you are lost my friend! End of subject!

Dear RJ,
Since when is being "lost" ever said to be for eternity? Christ came to save those who are lost. In fact, we are all lost before we come to Christ. There are zero scriptures that say you cannot be saved at a future time and there are plenty that say a lost person can be saved. Missing the 1st resurrection means that you have missed having life during the Kingdom Age when Christ will rule over mortal man with His church. After this age, the 2nd resurrection occurs and the judgment occurs for the lost and they are cast in the Lake of Fire which is on the new earth. They will be judged and from that judgment learn righteousness and will be saved into the Kingdom on the last day. They will receive salvation in Christ by the same process that the church did. Then Christ will turn over the Kingdom (having reconciled all things through His blood) to God the Father.

We are all lost and Christ came to find the lost. Where is your scripture that says He will quit before the job is done. This idea that He quits and admits failure comes only from church tradition and not scripture.

You still have not responded to the simple, straightforward statements of scripture that say Christ will save the world. I will narrow it down to a triple witness of scripture for you - please tell me why you believe these scriptures are untrue and will never happen:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Matt 18:11-14 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

We are all lost and have gone astray (Isa 53:5-6). If it is not God's will for even one person to stay in their lost condition, then just who do you believe can thwart God's will? Of course, the answer is no one can - man has no such power to be able to withstand God's will.

Second witness of scripture:

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Every knee will confess that Jesus is Lord and this can only be done by having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3). This act of acceptance is done to the glory of the Father. It is not a forced confession of faith, but one done out of love for Christ.

Third witness of scripture:

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

This scripture plainly states that "all things" will be restored to God. Just who or what does that leave out?

I could go on and on with many more such scriptures but if you can't believe these three, you would not believe a dozen more just like them.

May the Lord bless you in your study of His Word,
Joe in Arkansas

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