The Antidote For Predestination/Election Controversy

[Joe in Arkansas]

Hi Joe,

Everyone is saved from their sinful flesh but only a few saints were made sinless so they could preach the gospel to find each other. Jesus was made sinless so he could be the first to preach the gospel and get it started. Peter was the only man who received faith from God before Jesus died but after his death, then God started his work of confession, repentance and forgiveness of sins in Peter's flesh to make him sinless so he could receive the knowledge of God, which is the truth and preach the same gospel that Jesus preached.

Jesus told all the sinners they would be saved when they die in the flesh according to the law. The penalty of sin is death so once a sinner dies in the flesh, he has paid his penalty in full. There is no other penalty attached to this, such as a hell where sinners are tormented forever. This is a pagan lie along with many other pagan lies that were added to the scriptures.

We were all created in the heavenly realm as images of thoughts within the thoughts of God. We were created to live for eternity but we need an earthly body to experience our thoughts in God. Since this age is limited to judge his people and have Jesus and us saints learn about who we are in him, our bodies only live up to a total of 120 years or less. This earth isn't prepared to handle anymore people than what we have so when this age ends, the earth's crust will be melted and all the mountains and oceans will disappear to make a lot more room for all God's created living things and their new immortal bodies.

The prophets, Jesus and us saints will be the first new people in paradise to get a new language formed and establish the new government where God in the flesh will reign over the Kingdom of God.

Not one of God's creation will be lost and everything was given over to the Word who will live forever on Mt.Zion in New Jerusalem, which are the bodies of the former prophets, Jesus and us saints.

Dear Brad,
I just responded to you in my last post before I saw this one. Do you have any scriptures to support all that you have stated above. I have studied and cannot think of a single scripture that supports most of what you said except for one statement you made, and I praise you for your faith in saying it. You said "Not one of God's creation will be lost". Thank you for sharing the Good News of the Gospel with that statement but as for the rest of your comments, I am at a loss as to where your understanding comes from.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

 

[RJ]

I Corinthians 15:22
22: For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 11: 32.
32: For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all.

Titus 2:11
11: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,

John 12: 47
47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

Isaiah 45: 22-25
22: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: ..To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'
24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.
25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory."


Isaiah 25: 6-9
6: On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wine on the lees well refined.
7: And he will destroy on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
8: He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.
9: It will be said on that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

Romans 14: 9-12
9: For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10: Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11: for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."
12: So each of us shall give account of himself to God.


I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Micah 4:
6: In that day, says the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted;
7: and the lame I will make the remnant; and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and for evermore.

Psalms 22: 27-29[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive. (This is only our flesh that perishes, not our created hearts, minds and souls in God)

Acts 17:
31: because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead."



I don't see anywhere in these scriptures where we need to make a decision for Christ in order to be saved. These scriptures tell me that all people will be saved and that only the prophets, Jesus and the saints were his special spokesman during this age. That's why they were special believers as you can see in this verse below.

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

I don't see anywhere in these scriptures where we need to make a decision for Christ in order to be saved. These scriptures tell me that all people will be saved and that only the prophets, Jesus and the saints were his special spokesman during this age. That's why they were special believers as you can see in this verse below.

There are so many scriptures that do point to him but your reply above does not deserve any reply from scripture, because your statement is so outrageous!

The only obvious reason you don't see any scriptures that point to Jesus Christ is because you do not have him living in you; your heart has been hardened like Pharoah's. And, you cant believe in the same Bible that I read because my Bible is all about Jesus Christ, from the begining all the way to the end of Revelation. The sole purpose of the Bible is to the glorification of Jesus Christ but, of course you don't believe that he is God either!

You must be Jehova Witness!!!

I thought this was a Jesus Christ forum, not a anti- Jesus Christ forum!

I have no doubt that you believe you will be saved in the end.

One difference, among many, between us is that I am saved now, in the flesh while living and breathing the same atmosphere that you breathe.

Thanks be to God for Jesus Christ for my Bible says: " Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are IN Christ.

 

[RJ]

None of the disciples chose to listen to the gospel Jesus preached. None of them chose God to reveal himself to them and give them faith. None of them chose to become sinless saints and preach the gospel.

Noah never chose to follow God and build an ark. Abraham, Israel, Moses, David or any other prophet chose to do the works they did for God.

Not one saint chose to preach the gospel to a hostile world until they were killed.

Not one of us prophets and saints made choices to speak for God. That comes from the religious mindset who think there's some kind of free will. There is no free will because everything was planned before creation by God and it's going exactly to his plans. No one can change his will, no matter what you think.

Would you please tell me and the rest here at TJ, where you get your information and what Bible do you read?

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

I'm a preacher of the true gospel, which is the voice of God. The gospel is who I am in God and we know that as the Word. This Word is the knowledge of God and the truth.

Jesus was the first man to be sinless so he could receive this knowledge and preach the gospel when God saw that it was the appointed time for him to preach. With this gospel, he had to find a replacement for himself to keep the gospel going. Peter was only disciple who God revealed himself to and gave him faith. This was the moment that Jesus knew he had to die for the sins of all people.

Now he had Peter to take over and be the next sinless man to preach the gospel. Once Jesus died, then God started the process in Peter's flesh to confess, repent and forgive him of all his sins until he was a sinless saint. After a spirit of truth test like the one Jesus had in the wilderness to learn that our flesh will keep tempting us while preaching the gospel, then Peter was given a strong desire to preach the same gospel that Jesus preached, which is the voice of God.

All the prophets, Jesus and us saints were created together as the Word so we are brothers in Christ and sons of God. We know who we are by the knowledge we write and speak.

This knowledge we have is the truth and where all the scriptures came from. The written words are only testimonies to the Word in us and they were vulnerable to changes made by unauthorized sinners. The Jews who were captives of the Babylonians came back with the religious beast in their minds and it caused them to add pagan ideas to the scriptures. The Persians, Greeks, and Rome also had the religious beast in their minds from being world powers. Religions work great in finding warriors to recruit. The unity gives great power to go conquer other lands, people and their wealth.

All the saints who came after Jesus were preaching the gospel but the jealous Jews who had Jesus killed, convinced the Roman government that the saints would take over their empire so they passed a law to prohibit the gospel from being preached. This is what started the killing of saints and St. Paul was a part of that killing until God changed him into a sinless saint. He was also needed to bring the Word to the gentiles in their language.

After three hundred years of killing these saints, the Romans had to find a way to deceive their followers who were still sinners and obeying the commands that God spoke through the saints. Without a saint around with the truth in him, the Romans easily deceived these followers who became the first Roman Catholic Christians. The Roman leader, Constantine, was elected to figure out a way to keep these followers, turned Christians, from becoming new sinless saints and preach the gospel.

The best deception was the new testament writings that were writted by a few saints. The Romans deleted the teachings about the true gospel to make sure these followers couldn't connect it with their saints they followed. Then to make it more complicated, they added their pagan ideas to these writings and this is the new testament that Christians are using today. The cannot find the truth because the truth is in the true gospel I preach and there was a 1600+ famine of the Word since then. Amos 8: 11-12 is a prophecy that shows this famine would take place. Daniel wrote about this famine, too, but it's a very complicated symbolic writing which no sinner could learn from.

The beast that Daniel and John wrote about is the religious deception in the minds of sinners who don't have the truth in them. Satan is the symbolic name for the genetic sins of the flesh and he makes the sinner worship the beast. The mark of the beast represents all sinners who weren't created as the Word of God.

It's not that big of a deal. Everyone will be saved from their sinful flesh but those of us created as the Word will be the God on earth in paradise and everyone else will be the citizens of the new world.

Dear Brad,
I read with interest your post and must say that I have never heard anything like it before. From your post, are you saying that the scriptures have been changed by "the Romans" and what we have today is a completely corrupted text with no hope of learning truth from it? Without the original scriptures, we would all be at a loss as to know the truth. But God did protect the original Greek writings and I have no doubt that what we study today is God's Word. The translations are not God inspired however. The KJV translation is probably the best except for a few things that can (with proper study) be overcome - such as the translation of aion and its forms. That Greek word never meant everlasting when the text was written. It meant an age or a period of time that has a beginning and an ending. There are some other problems also but nothing as serious as the mistranslation of aionios. Do you know that the KJV as had over 1000 errors/revisions to it and still the word Easter is in the scripture? Of course, Easter is a pagan holiday that the church incorporated with the resurrection to help bring in more converts to the church. But as far as what you are saying in your posts, I have to agree with Larry and RJ. Your understanding is extra-biblical and is in conflict with the scriptures in many areas. I'm glad you believe Christ will not fail to save the world but I can't go along with you on anything else.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

None of the disciples chose to listen to the gospel Jesus preached. None of them chose God to reveal himself to them and give them faith. None of them chose to become sinless saints and preach the gospel.

Noah never chose to follow God and build an ark. Abraham, Israel, Moses, David or any other prophet chose to do the works they did for God.

Not one saint chose to preach the gospel to a hostile world until they were killed.

Not one of us prophets and saints made choices to speak for God. That comes from the religious mindset who think there's some kind of free will. There is no free will because everything was planned before creation by God and it's going exactly to his plans. No one can change his will, no matter what you think.

Dear Brad,
I did want to also comment on these statements of yours above. All those prophets and saints you mentioned DID "choose" to do what they did. But the choice they made was caused by God. Making choices is not in conflict with scripture. However, the choices we make are directed by God and not from our own supposed free will. Free will is not the ability to make a choice - it is the ability to make a choice that is free from causality. God is the cause of all things, even our choices we make. Mankind does not have a free will. When I chose to follow Christ, it was a direct result of God doing all the little things in my life that caused me to make that choice. Likewise, when we sin, we do so willingly. But God is also responsible for our sinning because He made us carnal and our hearts wicked. We are all born miserable, wretched, poor, naked and blind. That is our created state - we are carnal. God even created Satan to deceive and tempt us to make sin abound even more. Make no mistake about it, God is responsible for all the evil in the world and He did it on purpose. Nothing in His creation is out of His control. It is all going just as He planned. There is plenty of scriptural support for this understanding. I could show you numerous scriptures if you are interested.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

As long as you keep thinking the Bible is the word of God, you will never know the truth. The gospel is what you need to listen to because he's the only source of truth there is. I'm the only saint on earth today preaching the gospel so if you can hear a little bit of the truth in my messages, keep listening my friend.

Dear Brad,
Now you are getting scary. I have no interest in listening to you further.

Joe in Arkansas

 

[soberxp]

Dear Boanerges,
Yes, to refuse the call of God will leave a person lost. But scripture clearly says that everyone in due time will accept the call of Jesus.

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

yes!my knee should bow of things in heavenThe greatest wealth of my life,but not everyone has seen things in heaven yet.

then THE BLESSING IS
1ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

first!we should lead our life in all godliness and honesty then
god will ...........have all godliness and honesty to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
second!
if all man lead their life in all godliness and honesty
god will ...........have all man to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I'm Chinese mother tongue.....not english mother tongue... what a joy!
you blind!!!!
praise lord
May the Lord bless you,----sober cross path

 

[jiggyfly]

That is not what the Strongs said and not what I said.

From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
What does a simple Websters Dictionary say about perpetual?

Perpetual
PERPET'UAL, a. [L. perpetuus, from perpes, perpetis; per and pes, from a root signifying to pass.]

1. Never ceasing; continuing forever in future time; destined to be eternal; as a perpetual covenant; a perpetual statute.

[Literally true with respect to the decrees of the Supreme Being.]

2. Continuing or continued without intermission; uninterrupted; as a perpetual stream; the perpetual action of the heart and arteries.

3. Permanent; fixed; not temporary; as a perpetual law or edict; perpetual love or amity, perpetual incense. Exo 30.

4. Everlasting; endless.

Destructions are come to a perpetual end. Psa 9.

5. During the legal dispensation. Exo 29.

Perpetual curacy, is where all the tithes are appropriated and no vicarage is endowed.

Perpetual motion, motion that generates a power of continuing itself forever or indefinitely, by means of mechanism or some application of the force of gravity; not yet discovered,and probably impossible.

Perpetual screw, a screw that acts against the teeth of a wheel and continues its action without end.







[/B]

One thing to keep in mind Larry is that while Strong's maybe an exhaustive concordance it is in no way an exhaustive Hebrew and Greek dictionary and it is also a biased work.

Although it is useful I find that there are some other reference works which are much more exhaustive and accurate than Strong's definitions of the Hebrew and Greek words used in the scriptures. As church history has proven time and again, one should be careful not to confuse Church doctrine and dogma as the spiritual Truth.:wink:

 

[jiggyfly]

As long as you keep thinking the Bible is the word of God, you will never know the truth. The gospel is what you need to listen to because he's the only source of truth there is. I'm the only saint on earth today preaching the gospel so if you can hear a little bit of the truth in my messages, keep listening my friend.

Well Brad, seems because of your claim here you will have to preach your gospel somewhere else, it's not needed here @TalkJesus.

 

[soberxp]

Well Brad seems because of your claim here you will have to preach your gospel somewhere else, it's not needed here @TalkJesus.

I agree with u....

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Luk 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

<TABLE class=forumline cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>1Ti 1:15 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Boanerges]

All will come to Christ when He calls. He just is not calling everyone at this time

This scripture (which I have posted 2x in this thread) plainly declares that God called these folks and they did not answer that call ( red emphasis mne):

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

i

Why do you not accept these verses as truth?

I have no trouble accepting the truth of the verses but I do have a problem with your flawed interpretation .
In truth- if there is even one verse that says all will not be saved the matter is either closed or your need to use scissors on your bible:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
No my freind it is you who are ignoring verse to support your doctrine. This is a method used by the WatchTower . They feel that since there are more verse stating Jesus was a created being than verses stating He is God that the former is true and the latter false. In fact a correct interpretation is to view one in the light of the other.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Boanerges]

One thing to keep in mind Larry is that while Strong's maybe an exhaustive concordance it is in no way an exhaustive Hebrew and Greek dictionary and it is also a biased work. Although it is useful I find that there are some other reference works which are much more exhaustive and accurate than Strong's definitions of the Hebrew and Greek words used in the scriptures. As church history has proven time and again, one should be careful not to confuse Church doctrine and dogma as the spiritual Truth.

I appreciate that my friend. I am not limited to the Strongs although I fail to see any bias in it demonstrated I do think it has it's limitations.
Perhaps you could give an example of it's inaccuracies?

 

[soberxp]

This scripture (which I have posted 2x in this thread) plainly declares that God called these folks and they did not answer that call ( red emphasis mne):

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

i
I have no trouble accepting the truth of the verses but I do have a problem with your flawed interpretation .
In truth- if there is even one verse that says all will not be saved the matter is either closed or your need to use scissors on your bible:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
No my freind it is you who are ignoring verse to support your doctrine. This is a method used by the WatchTower . They feel that since there are more verse stating Jesus was a created being than verses stating He is God that the former is true and the latter false. In fact a correct interpretation is to view one in the light of the other.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

<TABLE class=forumline cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:1 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:2 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:3 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:4 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:5 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:6 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:7 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:8 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:9 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:10 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:11 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:12 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:13 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:14 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:15 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:16 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:17 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:18 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:19 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:20 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:21 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:22 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:23 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:24 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:25</TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:26 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:27 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row2 noWrap height=25>히 12:28 </TD><TD class=row2 width="99%">Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: </TD></TR><TR><TD class=row1 noWrap height=25>히 12:29 </TD><TD class=row1 width="99%">For our God is a consuming fire. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

my friend,this is my mission

 

[Boanerges]

Dan 12:2 And manyH7227 of them that sleepH4480 H3463 in the dustH6083 of the earthH127 shall awake,H6974 someH428 to everlastingH5769 life,H2416 and someH428 to shameH2781 and everlastingH5769 contempt.H1860

Eastons Bible Dictionary
Everlasting
Eternal, applied to God (Gen_21:33; Deu_33:27; Psa_41:13; Psa_90:2). We also read of the “everlasting hills” (Gen_49:26); an “everlasting priesthood” (Exo_40:15; Num_25:13). (See ETERNAL.)
---------------------

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
עלם עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.

-------------------------


Vines Expositiry Dictionary of the Old Testament
Ever, Everlasting

`olam (H5769), "eternity; remotest time; perpetuity." This word has cognates in Ugaritic, Moabite, Phoenician, Aramaic, Arabic, and Akkadian. It appears about 440 times in biblical Hebrew and in all periods.
First, in a few passages the word means "eternity" in the sense of not being limited to the present. Thus, in Ecc_3:11 we read that God had bound man to time and given him the capacity to live "above time" (i.e., to remember yesterday, plan for tomorrow, and consider abstract principles); yet He has not given him divine knowledge: "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."
Second, the word signifies "remotest time" or "remote time." In 1Ch_16:36, God is described as blessed "from everlasting to everlasting" (KJV, "for ever and ever"), or from the most distant past time to the most distant future time. In passages where God is viewed as the One Who existed before the creation was brought into existence, `olam (or `olam) may mean: (1) "at the very beginning": "Remember the former things [the beginning things at the very beginning] of old: for I am God, and there is none else..." (Isa_46:9); or (2) "from eternity, from the pre-creation, till now": "Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old [from eternity]" (Psa_25:6). In other passages, the word means "from (in) olden times": "...Mighty men which were of old, men of renown" (Gen_6:4). In Isa_42:14, the word is used hyperbolically meaning "for a long time": "I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself...." This word may include all the time between the ancient beginning and the present: "The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied..." (Jer_28:8). The word can mean "long ago" (from long ago): "For [long ago] I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands..." (Jer_2:20). In Jos_24:2, the word means "formerly; in ancient times." The word is used in Jer_5:15, where it means "ancient": "Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation...." When used with the negative, `olam (or `olam) can mean "never": "We are thine: thou never barest rule [literally, "not ruled from the most distant past"] over them..." (Isa_63:19). Similar meanings emerge when the word is used without a preposition and in a genitive relationship to some other noun.
With the preposition `ad, the word can mean "into the indefinite future": "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever" (Deu_23:3). The same construction can signify "as long as one lives": "I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide for ever" (1Sa_1:22). This construction then sets forth an extension into the indefinite future, beginning from the time of the speaker.
In the largest number of its occurrences, `olam (or `olam) appears with the preposition le. This construction is weaker and less dynamic in emphasis than the previous phrase, insofar as it envisions a "simple duration." This difference emerges in 1Ki_2:33, where both phrases occur. Le`olam is applied to the curse set upon the dead Joab and his descendants. The other more dynamic phrase (`ad `olam), applied to David and his descendants, emphasizes the ever-continued, ever-acting presence of the blessing extended into the "indefinite future": "Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever [le `olam]: but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever [`ad `olam] from the Lord." In Exo_21:6 the phrase le `olam means "as long as one lives": "...And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever." This phrase emphasizes "continuity," "definiteness," and "unchangeability." This is its emphasis in Gen_3:22, the first biblical occurrence of `olam (or `olam): "...And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever...."
The same emphasis on "simple duration" pertains when `olam (or `olam) is used in passages such as Psa_61:8, where it appears by itself: "So will I sing praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows." The parallelism demonstrates that `olam (or `olam) means "day by day," or "continually." In Gen_9:16, the word (used absolutely) means the "most distant future": "And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature...." In other places, the word means "without beginning, without end, and ever-continuing": "Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength" (Isa_26:4).
The plural of this word is an intensive form.

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

Dan 12:2 And manyH7227 of them that sleepH4480 H3463 in the dustH6083 of the earthH127 shall awake,H6974 someH428 to everlastingH5769 life,H2416 and someH428 to shameH2781 and everlastingH5769 contempt.H1860

Eastons Bible Dictionary
Everlasting
Eternal, applied to God (Gen_21:33; Deu_33:27; Psa_41:13; Psa_90:2). We also read of the “everlasting hills” (Gen_49:26); an “everlasting priesthood” (Exo_40:15; Num_25:13). (See ETERNAL.)
---------------------

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
עלם עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.

-------------------------


Vines Expositiry Dictionary of the Old Testament
Ever, Everlasting

`olam (H5769), "eternity; remotest time; perpetuity." This word has cognates in Ugaritic, Moabite, Phoenician, Aramaic, Arabic, and Akkadian. It appears about 440 times in biblical Hebrew and in all periods.
First, in a few passages the word means "eternity" in the sense of not being limited to the present. Thus, in Ecc_3:11 we read that God had bound man to time and given him the capacity to live "above time" (i.e., to remember yesterday, plan for tomorrow, and consider abstract principles); yet He has not given him divine knowledge: "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."
Second, the word signifies "remotest time" or "remote time." In 1Ch_16:36, God is described as blessed "from everlasting to everlasting" (KJV, "for ever and ever"), or from the most distant past time to the most distant future time. In passages where God is viewed as the One Who existed before the creation was brought into existence, `olam (or `olam) may mean: (1) "at the very beginning": "Remember the former things [the beginning things at the very beginning] of old: for I am God, and there is none else..." (Isa_46:9); or (2) "from eternity, from the pre-creation, till now": "Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old [from eternity]" (Psa_25:6). In other passages, the word means "from (in) olden times": "...Mighty men which were of old, men of renown" (Gen_6:4). In Isa_42:14, the word is used hyperbolically meaning "for a long time": "I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself...." This word may include all the time between the ancient beginning and the present: "The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied..." (Jer_28:8). The word can mean "long ago" (from long ago): "For [long ago] I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands..." (Jer_2:20). In Jos_24:2, the word means "formerly; in ancient times." The word is used in Jer_5:15, where it means "ancient": "Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation...." When used with the negative, `olam (or `olam) can mean "never": "We are thine: thou never barest rule [literally, "not ruled from the most distant past"] over them..." (Isa_63:19). Similar meanings emerge when the word is used without a preposition and in a genitive relationship to some other noun.
With the preposition `ad, the word can mean "into the indefinite future": "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever" (Deu_23:3). The same construction can signify "as long as one lives": "I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide for ever" (1Sa_1:22). This construction then sets forth an extension into the indefinite future, beginning from the time of the speaker.
In the largest number of its occurrences, `olam (or `olam) appears with the preposition le. This construction is weaker and less dynamic in emphasis than the previous phrase, insofar as it envisions a "simple duration." This difference emerges in 1Ki_2:33, where both phrases occur. Le`olam is applied to the curse set upon the dead Joab and his descendants. The other more dynamic phrase (`ad `olam), applied to David and his descendants, emphasizes the ever-continued, ever-acting presence of the blessing extended into the "indefinite future": "Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever [le `olam]: but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever [`ad `olam] from the Lord." In Exo_21:6 the phrase le `olam means "as long as one lives": "...And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever." This phrase emphasizes "continuity," "definiteness," and "unchangeability." This is its emphasis in Gen_3:22, the first biblical occurrence of `olam (or `olam): "...And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever...."
The same emphasis on "simple duration" pertains when `olam (or `olam) is used in passages such as Psa_61:8, where it appears by itself: "So will I sing praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows." The parallelism demonstrates that `olam (or `olam) means "day by day," or "continually." In Gen_9:16, the word (used absolutely) means the "most distant future": "And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature...." In other places, the word means "without beginning, without end, and ever-continuing": "Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength" (Isa_26:4).
The plural of this word is an intensive form.

Dear Larry,
As I have said before, the translations have changed the meaning of certain words to accommodate their doctrines. This verse in Daniel you quoted is not exception. Here is a proper translation from Young Literal Translation:

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May the Lord Bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

This scripture (which I have posted 2x in this thread) plainly declares that God called these folks and they did not answer that call ( red emphasis mne):

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

i
I have no trouble accepting the truth of the verses but I do have a problem with your flawed interpretation .
In truth- if there is even one verse that says all will not be saved the matter is either closed or your need to use scissors on your bible:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
No my freind it is you who are ignoring verse to support your doctrine. This is a method used by the WatchTower . They feel that since there are more verse stating Jesus was a created being than verses stating He is God that the former is true and the latter false. In fact a correct interpretation is to view one in the light of the other.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Dear Larry,
The verse you quoted in Isaiah is before the ministry of Christ occurred on earth. Christ said if I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me. The verse you quoted was a general call to the nation of Israel which of course they refused. If Christ calls a person today, they will be drawn to Him - and I'm not talking about a preacher making a call to a person. It is Christ's work and He will call each and every person in due time. Most are not being called in this age.

Now concerning your second point, what is your "interpretation" of those verses I quoted - you did not say? You said that you accept them as truth, but what truth are you receiving from them? The verse you quoted about the narrow and wide gates is perfectly consisted with what I believe and teach. If you understand the conversion process, we all must be "destroyed" and born again. Those going to the narrow gate must spiritually be destroyed in this life so as to be raised a new creature in Christ. Christ also referred to it as a seed falling to the ground and being raised up. Paul referred to this conversion process as the death of the "old man" or our carnal nature. Being "destroyed" is essential for conversion. Those who are not converted now will miss aionios life but they will still be destroyed (converted) in the Lake of Fire. Did you know that Jesus was destroyed and was raised again? Being destroyed is not eternal as you state. In our conversion, we too will be destroyed and raised a new creature (spiritually speaking):

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.


As I have said before, Christ spoke in symbolic language to hide His meaning so that He can reveal the spiritual message to those He chooses at a later time. Even the apostles could not understand His spiritual messages until they were later converted:




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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Matt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:



<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


Doesn't it seem strange to you that if Christ is really trying to save the world at this time, that He would keep His truth hidden? Just as the parable of the 3 measures of meal spiritually states, Christ is hidden in the world today. He only reveals Himself to those He has chosen. Seems very odd in deed, if He really loves us and there will be no second chances for those who reject Him. And of course, they reject Him because He has not revealed Himself to them yet. It is not their time yet. They do not have eyes that can see or ears that can hear anything spiritual. They are carnal to the core. They must be destroyed and born again to understand. They must be converted and that is a work of God. Remember the gifts and calling of God are WITHOUT repentance (Rom 11:29). Christ must first call us and give us "gifts" before we can repent. If Christ does not do this first, the person will remain carnal without any spiritual understanding. I am assuming this is new to you since I know that do not teach this in any church at I know. Conversion is a work of Christ. We are saved by Him and not from our free will to choose Him. We must be destroyed to be born again.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas



Lastly, please don't compare me with the Watch Tower Organization. I don't compare you with the Catholic Church because they also believe in hell as you do.


May the Lord bless you,
Joe in Arkansas

 

[Boanerges]

my friend,this is my mission

That comment was not directed to you my friend and I have not objected to anything you have posted. Keep up the good work.

 

[Boanerges]

Dear Larry, The verse you quoted in Isaiah is before the ministry of Christ occurred on earth.

These scriptures you're dragging into this thread are out of context for who you are. You don't have any understanding to use scriptures because you don't have the truth in you.

So when you quote the Old Testament it is applicable but when I quote it it is pre- Christ and of no import?

 

[Boanerges]

Dear Larry, As I have said before, the translations have changed the meaning of certain words to accommodate their doctrines. This verse in Daniel you quoted is not exception. Here is a proper translation from Young Literal Translation:

And there is the crux of the whole discussion. You would have me believe that every major bible translator for the last 1,000 or so years has purposely pushed an agenda and has mistranslated their works to reflect that conspiracy. So far I have view 26 translations and the Youngs is the only one that agrees with you. This reminds me of those stuck on King James Only and has extremely limited academic support.
So either you are right that 2,000 years of Christian bible students, scholars and translators have missed the mark and you along with one obscure translation are here to correct the rest of the world or you are in error.
I personally will side with the 25 Bible translations and what I have found studying them.
The good news- if I am right but you are born again that doctrine will not keep you out of heaven.
If you are right then even the devils in hell will be saved. So when all is said and done other than create confusion this discussion is of very little eternal import.
Have a blessed day,
your brother Larry.

 

[Joe in Arkansas]

And there is the crux of the whole discussion. You would have me believe that every major bible translator for the last 1,000 or so years has purposely pushed an agenda and has mistranslated their works to reflect that conspiracy. So far I have view 26 translations and the Youngs is the only one that agrees with you. This reminds me of those stuck on King James Only and has extremely limited academic support.
So either you are right that 2,000 years of Christian bible students, scholars and translators have missed the mark and you along with one obscure translation are here to correct the rest of the world or you are in error.
I personally will side with the 25 Bible translations and what I have found studying them.
The good news- if I am right but you are born again that doctrine will not keep you out of heaven.
If you are right then even the devils in hell will be saved. So when all is said and done other than create confusion this discussion is of very little eternal import.
Have a blessed day,
your brother Larry.

Dear Larry,
Yes, I am saying they are all wrong. The majority is always wrong when it comes to knowing God and His Word. Was it not the majority who crucified Christ? Was it not the majority that persecuted the prophets? Nothing has changed. The called are many but the chosen are few. It is better to follow Christ alone than to follow the many to the gate that leads to destruction.

Luke 21:8 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

I wish you well,
Joe in Arkansas