The Church and its place in the Tribulation

[ChristianConsFurryGuy]

It is understandable that many of our brothers and sisters may be confused and unsure about the current climate of lawlessness and chaos around the world. Some are starting to see these as signs of the times that will bring us to the end of this age and usher the second coming of Jesus Christ. However, many churches are not talking about prophecy for fear of losing church-goers or 'triggering' them with thoughts of doom and gloom. Sure, the Tribulation is going to be a time like no other, but we can rest well in knowing that Jesus will not leave us here to suffer with the non-believers.

How do I know this?

Revelation 3:10 is a special message to the church that will be present around before the rapture. Many theologians already equate the 7 churches mentioned in the first chapters as being a timeline of the church. This church in particular--the church of Philadelphia-- is starting to see the coming persecution. But Jesus speaks comfort to them saying:

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Revelation 3:10, KJV)

Prophecy scholars say this is an indication that though the church will see persecution, God will rescue them from the final 7 year tribulation.

One thing you should consider: If you read the book of Revelation, you'll notice one interesting occurance. From Chapter 4 until 20, which encompasses the 7 year tribulation period, there is no mention of the church anywhere. They talk about the saints in various locations, but it is seen as only those that come to faith during the Tribulation. The church itself however is not mentioned. Don't you think that during this time, if the church was present there, they would be called out?

The answer: The church is not going through the Tribulation because it was raptured! Just as in Revelation 3:10, the Church is extracated from the Earth and returns to the Earth with Jesus at his second coming.

How do we know that these are the end times? It doesn't take a Bible scholar to see that something unnerving is going on with the world, but when we look at how the Bible tells us what is happening, we should be even more solid in our faith in Jesus and his second coming. Jesus himself told us of many signs that will come to indicate his second coming, many of which are showing up today in our news!

One in particular is a verse in Matthew 24:7:

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom...

If you actually took the time to study the original Greek , you would see the word 'nation' was from the Greek word "Ethnos" where we get the word "Ethnicity".

Do you see where I'm going? Instead of seeing this as one country rising against another, we now see "For Ethnicity shall rise against Ethnicity" Are we not now dealing with the BLM and Antifa movements, systematic racism and other such problems regarding race and nationality?

Let's not stop there. How about in verse 10:

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

The word "offended" in Greek is skandalizo, where we get the modern word "Scandal" While we have had our share of scandals, doesn't this also sound a lot like our current environment of people being offended easily--being 'Triggered'--as it were? People getting into their safe spaces to avoid dealing with people with different views? Even now you can't have a conversation with someone without them going full blown on you and despising you for your political or religious views. I myself have many friends who have dealt with those who have completely lost loved ones cause they just can't be accepted for their viewpoint.

This brings me to another verse in the same chapter, Verse 12:

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (Matthew 24:12 KJV)

Because of the lack of sincerity, compassion, and understanding, many people have simply just given in to offence, hatred, bigotry and disgust. How long will it be before this generation of teenagers, riddled with angst, virtue signaling and self-righteous selfishness turn their vitreol on the church and those who they see as racist, homophobic and bigoted. Isn't now the very words of truth considered such?

Just these few verses alone should be enough to make your hair stand on end, knowing that we are the terminal generation that will see Jesus return to the Earth! This alone should motivate all of you into action: preaching the word of God without fear, giving and serving others, studying and praying for God's guidance, and most importantly as it is written:

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Luke 21: 28 KJV)

 

[DieAmartyr]

It is understandable that many of our brothers and sisters may be confused and unsure about the current climate of lawlessness and chaos around the world. Some are starting to see these as signs of the times that will bring us to the end of this age and usher the second coming of Jesus Christ. However, many churches are not talking about prophecy for fear of losing church-goers or 'triggering' them with thoughts of doom and gloom. Sure, the Tribulation is going to be a time like no other, but we can rest well in knowing that Jesus will not leave us here to suffer with the non-believers.

How do I know this?

Revelation 3:10 is a special message to the church that will be present around before the rapture. Many theologians already equate the 7 churches mentioned in the first chapters as being a timeline of the church. This church in particular--the church of Philadelphia-- is starting to see the coming persecution. But Jesus speaks comfort to them saying:


Prophecy scholars say this is an indication that though the church will see persecution, God will rescue them from the final 7 year tribulation.

One thing you should consider: If you read the book of Revelation, you'll notice one interesting occurance. From Chapter 4 until 20, which encompasses the 7 year tribulation period, there is no mention of the church anywhere. They talk about the saints in various locations, but it is seen as only those that come to faith during the Tribulation. The church itself however is not mentioned. Don't you think that during this time, if the church was present there, they would be called out?

The answer: The church is not going through the Tribulation because it was raptured! Just as in Revelation 3:10, the Church is extracated from the Earth and returns to the Earth with Jesus at his second coming.

How do we know that these are the end times? It doesn't take a Bible scholar to see that something unnerving is going on with the world, but when we look at how the Bible tells us what is happening, we should be even more solid in our faith in Jesus and his second coming. Jesus himself told us of many signs that will come to indicate his second coming, many of which are showing up today in our news!

One in particular is a verse in Matthew 24:7:



If you actually took the time to study the original Greek , you would see the word 'nation' was from the Greek word "Ethnos" where we get the word "Ethnicity".

Do you see where I'm going? Instead of seeing this as one country rising against another, we now see "For Ethnicity shall rise against Ethnicity" Are we not now dealing with the BLM and Antifa movements, systematic racism and other such problems regarding race and nationality?

Let's not stop there. How about in verse 10:



The word "offended" in Greek is skandalizo, where we get the modern word "Scandal" While we have had our share of scandals, doesn't this also sound a lot like our current environment of people being offended easily--being 'Triggered'--as it were? People getting into their safe spaces to avoid dealing with people with different views? Even now you can't have a conversation with someone without them going full blown on you and despising you for your political or religious views. I myself have many friends who have dealt with those who have completely lost loved ones cause they just can't be accepted for their viewpoint.

This brings me to another verse in the same chapter, Verse 12:



Because of the lack of sincerity, compassion, and understanding, many people have simply just given in to offence, hatred, bigotry and disgust. How long will it be before this generation of teenagers, riddled with angst, virtue signaling and self-righteous selfishness turn their vitreol on the church and those who they see as racist, homophobic and bigoted. Isn't now the very words of truth considered such?

Just these few verses alone should be enough to make your hair stand on end, knowing that we are the terminal generation that will see Jesus return to the Earth! This alone should motivate all of you into action: preaching the word of God without fear, giving and serving others, studying and praying for God's guidance, and most importantly as it is written:

The church has no place in the Tribulation because it is gone. Many believers will be left behind for things that seem trivial to us like high heels, makeup, jewelry, tv, secular music, ladies wearing pants, hair dye, short hair, fake nails, plastic surgery, but these things are property of satan and cannot enter heaven. These believers left behind will only get into heaven if they endure the tortures of the Antichrist for 10 days before being beheaded and refuse to bow before him. That is the only way .

 

[DanielVision]

The Greek work for 'keep' in Rev 3:10 is tereo. It means: to guard, by keeping an eye on, take care of, to keep on in a state in which he is.
The same word is found in Mt 23:3, Mt 17:36 and Mt 28:20. The same Greek word is translated as observe, they watched and to observe.
The church of Smyrna has nothing bad said about it but has to be tested for 10 days, including prison and death but they are promised a crown. We tend to point to Philadelphia as the true church but all 7 churches are promised victory if they persevere.

 

[Dave M]

The Greek work for 'keep' in Rev 3:10 is tereo. It means: to guard, by keeping an eye on, take care of, to keep on in a state in which he is.
The same word is found in Mt 23:3, Mt 17:36 and Mt 28:20. The same Greek word is translated as observe, they watched and to observe.
The church of Smyrna has nothing bad said about it but has to be tested for 10 days, including prison and death but they are promised a crown. We tend to point to Philadelphia as the true church but all 7 churches are promised victory if they persevere.

it sounds to me like your saying something that came to me today,, and I have never ever ever herd anyone spoken of, let me just confirm, are you saying that Jesus is giving instructions to the churches on how to get through the tribulation ?

 

[Dave M]

but it is seen as only those that come to faith during the Tribulation.

HI CC
Can you point out scripture that says people are coming to faith during the tribulation??? I could never find any,

But I can find in the bible in revelation Revelation 9:21 that says NO ONE is repenting there fore no one is coming to faith.,

I can also find in the bible wear it says the great falling away from God happens in end times 2 Thessalonians 2:3, some claim there is a great revival but it says in the bible the opposite.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

 

[Dave M]

when you read the letter to the 7 churches it is clear Jesus has issue with most of them (not all) and we are told all through our the NT that it is a time of joy to be in trials because it is for our own good to be tested and refined and made more mature in our walk with Christ. The 7 churches represent the 7 personalities that make up the church, and it seems to me most of us need refining and purifying so it just makes sense we are going through this time of trial. I can give you plenty of scripture that says its a good thing to go through tough times, I can find no scripture saying we will escape them.

James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

Romans 12:12
Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.

Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:18
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

 

[DanielVision]

it sounds to me like your saying something that came to me today,, and I have never ever ever herd anyone spoken of, let me just confirm, are you saying that Jesus is giving instructions to the churches on how to get through the tribulation ?

The 7 churches seem to be 7 groups of believers that are present at the start of the tribulation. The 144,00 are the believers that make it to the end. My theory is that the 144,000 come from these 7 groups, well 6 of them.. Smyrna doesn't make it through the tribulation; they are put to death.
In Matthew 10 Jesus sends His 12 disciples out, and they are told they would go to prison and be put to death. In Luke chapter 10 Jesus sends out 72 others but they are not told they would die or go to prison. That's 84 total people that Jesus sent out. In Matthew 25 all 10 bridesmaid's are waiting on God to return but only half are patient enough to stay awake. My theory is that only half of the 144,000 will be patient enough to wait until the end which is 72,000. Smyrna would have 12,000 that would keep the faith under persecution. Making up the 84,000. That's also 1,000 people for every month of the tribulation, 84 months. It's also 12,000 from each of the 7 churches and 7,000 from each of the 12 tribes. I arrive at Smyrna having 12,000 because if 6 of the churches make up 144,000 then that's 24,000 each so Smyrna would have 24,000 to start but the same logic would apply that only half make it.

 

[Dave M]

The 7 churches seem to be 7 groups of believers that are present at the start of the tribulation. The 144,00 are the believers that make it to the end. My theory is that the 144,000 come from these 7 groups, well 6 of them.. Smyrna doesn't make it through the tribulation; they are put to death.
In Matthew 10 Jesus sends His 12 disciples out, and they are told they would go to prison and be put to death. In Luke chapter 10 Jesus sends out 72 others but they are not told they would die or go to prison. That's 84 total people that Jesus sent out. In Matthew 25 all 10 bridesmaid's are waiting on God to return but only half are patient enough to stay awake. My theory is that only half of the 144,000 will be patient enough to wait until the end which is 72,000. Smyrna would have 12,000 that would keep the faith under persecution. Making up the 84,000. That's also 1,000 people for every month of the tribulation, 84 months. It's also 12,000 from each of the 7 churches and 7,000 from each of the 12 tribes. I arrive at Smyrna having 12,000 because if 6 of the churches make up 144,000 then that's 24,000 each so Smyrna would have 24,000 to start but the same logic would apply that only half make it.

very interesting, I have not digested all of it. But I am thinking you believe the church to be a spiritual Jew and part of Israel ?

Romans 2:28-29
For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

 

[Bill]

It is understandable that many of our brothers and sisters may be confused and unsure about the current climate of lawlessness and chaos around the world. Some are starting to see these as signs of the times that will bring us to the end of this age and usher the second coming of Jesus Christ. However, many churches are not talking about prophecy for fear of losing church-goers or 'triggering' them with thoughts of doom and gloom. Sure, the Tribulation is going to be a time like no other, but we can rest well in knowing that Jesus will not leave us here to suffer with the non-believers.

How do I know this?

Revelation 3:10 is a special message to the church that will be present around before the rapture. Many theologians already equate the 7 churches mentioned in the first chapters as being a timeline of the church. This church in particular--the church of Philadelphia-- is starting to see the coming persecution. But Jesus speaks comfort to them saying:


Prophecy scholars say this is an indication that though the church will see persecution, God will rescue them from the final 7 year tribulation.

One thing you should consider: If you read the book of Revelation, you'll notice one interesting occurance. From Chapter 4 until 20, which encompasses the 7 year tribulation period, there is no mention of the church anywhere. They talk about the saints in various locations, but it is seen as only those that come to faith during the Tribulation. The church itself however is not mentioned. Don't you think that during this time, if the church was present there, they would be called out?

The answer: The church is not going through the Tribulation because it was raptured! Just as in Revelation 3:10, the Church is extracated from the Earth and returns to the Earth with Jesus at his second coming.

How do we know that these are the end times? It doesn't take a Bible scholar to see that something unnerving is going on with the world, but when we look at how the Bible tells us what is happening, we should be even more solid in our faith in Jesus and his second coming. Jesus himself told us of many signs that will come to indicate his second coming, many of which are showing up today in our news!

One in particular is a verse in Matthew 24:7:



If you actually took the time to study the original Greek , you would see the word 'nation' was from the Greek word "Ethnos" where we get the word "Ethnicity".

Do you see where I'm going? Instead of seeing this as one country rising against another, we now see "For Ethnicity shall rise against Ethnicity" Are we not now dealing with the BLM and Antifa movements, systematic racism and other such problems regarding race and nationality?

Let's not stop there. How about in verse 10:



The word "offended" in Greek is skandalizo, where we get the modern word "Scandal" While we have had our share of scandals, doesn't this also sound a lot like our current environment of people being offended easily--being 'Triggered'--as it were? People getting into their safe spaces to avoid dealing with people with different views? Even now you can't have a conversation with someone without them going full blown on you and despising you for your political or religious views. I myself have many friends who have dealt with those who have completely lost loved ones cause they just can't be accepted for their viewpoint.

This brings me to another verse in the same chapter, Verse 12:



Because of the lack of sincerity, compassion, and understanding, many people have simply just given in to offence, hatred, bigotry and disgust. How long will it be before this generation of teenagers, riddled with angst, virtue signaling and self-righteous selfishness turn their vitreol on the church and those who they see as racist, homophobic and bigoted. Isn't now the very words of truth considered such?

Just these few verses alone should be enough to make your hair stand on end, knowing that we are the terminal generation that will see Jesus return to the Earth! This alone should motivate all of you into action: preaching the word of God without fear, giving and serving others, studying and praying for God's guidance, and most importantly as it is written:

Just an answer to your title .

The Church and its place in the Tribulation.

"Buckle your seatbelts Dorthy because Kansas is going bye bye"

 

[Dave M]

Just an answer to your title .

The Church and its place in the Tribulation.

"Buckle your seatbelts Dorthy because Kansas is going bye bye"

the church is to be the light in tribulation it will be a glorious time for the church to shine, unfortunatley it will be a surprise to the luke warm christians that have prepared themselves. the church is mentioned through out the whole book of revelation.

 

[Bill]

the church is to be the light in tribulation it will be a glorious time for the church to shine, unfortunatley it will be a surprise to the luke warm christians that have prepared themselves. the church is mentioned through out the whole book of revelation.

Brother, even those on fire will be caught. When the 6th seal breaks , there will be no denieghing where we are in revelations

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

It is understandable that many of our brothers and sisters may be confused and unsure about the current climate of lawlessness and chaos around the world. Some are starting to see these as signs of the times that will bring us to the end of this age and usher the second coming of Jesus Christ. However, many churches are not talking about prophecy for fear of losing church-goers or 'triggering' them with thoughts of doom and gloom. Sure, the Tribulation is going to be a time like no other, but we can rest well in knowing that Jesus will not leave us here to suffer with the non-believers.

How do I know this?

Revelation 3:10 is a special message to the church that will be present around before the rapture. Many theologians already equate the 7 churches mentioned in the first chapters as being a timeline of the church. This church in particular--the church of Philadelphia-- is starting to see the coming persecution. But Jesus speaks comfort to them saying:


Prophecy scholars say this is an indication that though the church will see persecution, God will rescue them from the final 7 year tribulation.

One thing you should consider: If you read the book of Revelation, you'll notice one interesting occurance. From Chapter 4 until 20, which encompasses the 7 year tribulation period, there is no mention of the church anywhere. They talk about the saints in various locations, but it is seen as only those that come to faith during the Tribulation. The church itself however is not mentioned. Don't you think that during this time, if the church was present there, they would be called out?

The answer: The church is not going through the Tribulation because it was raptured! Just as in Revelation 3:10, the Church is extracated from the Earth and returns to the Earth with Jesus at his second coming.

How do we know that these are the end times? It doesn't take a Bible scholar to see that something unnerving is going on with the world, but when we look at how the Bible tells us what is happening, we should be even more solid in our faith in Jesus and his second coming. Jesus himself told us of many signs that will come to indicate his second coming, many of which are showing up today in our news!

One in particular is a verse in Matthew 24:7:



If you actually took the time to study the original Greek , you would see the word 'nation' was from the Greek word "Ethnos" where we get the word "Ethnicity".

Do you see where I'm going? Instead of seeing this as one country rising against another, we now see "For Ethnicity shall rise against Ethnicity" Are we not now dealing with the BLM and Antifa movements, systematic racism and other such problems regarding race and nationality?

Let's not stop there. How about in verse 10:



The word "offended" in Greek is skandalizo, where we get the modern word "Scandal" While we have had our share of scandals, doesn't this also sound a lot like our current environment of people being offended easily--being 'Triggered'--as it were? People getting into their safe spaces to avoid dealing with people with different views? Even now you can't have a conversation with someone without them going full blown on you and despising you for your political or religious views. I myself have many friends who have dealt with those who have completely lost loved ones cause they just can't be accepted for their viewpoint.

This brings me to another verse in the same chapter, Verse 12:



Because of the lack of sincerity, compassion, and understanding, many people have simply just given in to offence, hatred, bigotry and disgust. How long will it be before this generation of teenagers, riddled with angst, virtue signaling and self-righteous selfishness turn their vitreol on the church and those who they see as racist, homophobic and bigoted. Isn't now the very words of truth considered such?

Just these few verses alone should be enough to make your hair stand on end, knowing that we are the terminal generation that will see Jesus return to the Earth! This alone should motivate all of you into action: preaching the word of God without fear, giving and serving others, studying and praying for God's guidance, and most importantly as it is written:

.
Its true...Beleivers will be caught up and will not go through the tribulation. But what about unbelieving Church people?

 

[Bill]

.
Its true...Beleivers will be caught up and will not go through the tribulation. But what about unbelieving Church people?

They will go through it , the only caught up will be caught up to reality. No more dream world .
But the Christians, the True Christians will be able to handle what is thrown at them , because they were prepared .

Following foolish teachings of the great escape , will cause many " strong " Christians to leave the Church and its teachings. They will harken to the Father of lies.

And those who teach this falsehood , some will learn to " Finally listen to the Holy Spirit" , but not many.

Churches will have to set aside thier differences , pettiness, to learn to work together . They will become the Remnant Church. As was fortold in Scripture.

Yes , even what is left of the Catholic Church , the true church , will become part of the remnant church.

All these Christians will have Gifts that far surpass anything you now have. It is only because you dont use faith to use them.

Learn the peace of God in your hearts. Learn to recognize it and all will be much easier for you .

Even now though, you shut me out . I can see it.

Everything i have said will come to pass

 

[Bill]

the church is to be the light in tribulation it will be a glorious time for the church to shine, unfortunatley it will be a surprise to the luke warm christians that have prepared themselves. the church is mentioned through out the whole book of revelation.

Absolutely correct my friend. The Remnant will shine like a becon . The darkness will come against them like a rush of water, remember Christ built His Church on a Rock , and this Rock is immoveable. The Darkness will not win , the Darkness will not know what hit them

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

You are not forced by God to believe His Word...But your belief is not requisite to it happening....Just so you know.
The Rapture is spoken of in the Word and will happen and all of the believers WILL be caught up...The rest, those who do not believe that don't have to worry whether its true or not because they WILL go through the tribulation. Your choice.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

the church is to be the light in tribulation it will be a glorious time for the church to shine, unfortunatley it will be a surprise to the luke warm christians that have prepared themselves. the church is mentioned through out the whole book of revelation.

One question Dave....If the church is not a light to the nations now, how will it be so in the tribulation? And the church in general is a light to nobody.

 

[Dave M]

One question Dave....If the church is not a light to the nations now, how will it be so in the tribulation? And the church in general is a light to nobody.

The true church is a light to the nations now, AMEN.. has been and always will be, you don't see it on the news, you may see it on youtube if you look close enough, but to really experience it you need to be part of it. AMEN I know people who who have sold everything they own,, to start orphanages and lead street kids to Christ, that is the light of the world shining, I know people who dont chase the American dream but chase people for Christ sake,,,,, I know people who do street ministry 24/7 proclaiming at the top of there lungs JESUS SAVES, this is the church shinning, if we are not living for Christ now we certainly won't die for him when our time of persecution comes IMO.

Who do you think is ministering to street children in Africa right now ?? the light
who do think is ministering to the local drug addicts and homeless in our local cities right now ?? the light
who do thing makes up the house churches in places like china right now? the light
who do think brings Jesus to places that Muslim rules and christians are killed for there faith?? the Light

I see the Light all over this world shinning right now, in a very dark time in history.

The gospel is being spread to every nation on the planet, that does not happen with out the light.

 

[Dave M]

.The rest, those who do not believe that don't have to worry whether its true or not because they WILL go through the tribulation. Your choice.

do you have any scripture to support this, the rapture happens at the end of tribulation when the elect are gather up. Not one place in scripture says the rapture happens before tribulation not one place. you can read into scripture and speculate and make it say what you want but NOT one place says the rapture happens before tribuatlion, but scriptures does say the gathering of the elect happens after tribulation

furthermore are belief on the timing of the rapture has NOTHING to do with weather or not we will be raptured, why would anyone say such a thing?

 

[Bill]

You are not forced by God to believe His Word...But your belief is not requisite to it happening....Just so you know.
The Rapture is spoken of in the Word and will happen and all of the believers WILL be caught up...The rest, those who do not believe that don't have to worry whether its true or not because they WILL go through the tribulation. Your choice.

Ahhh , but you are . Forced . To a degree to obey God. Not to recieve the Mark of the Beast. You do it at your own pearl.

And know, it will be the toughest decision you will ever make as a Christian.

On the one hand, you will have God's Word. And on the other, the starvation of your family, your children crying.

It will not avail you to try being the sacrificial lamb in this matter either. As those who accept will be separated from those who dont.

This is why its so important to be prepared. Both in heart and mind.

There is one more thing , about the passages, pertaining to the Mark of the Beast. They were written solely for the Christians.

In contrast, because of your faith. There will be great miracles happening daily. God will feed His own.

These Remenant will be on fire for God.

Have you ever wondered what was ment where it is written . Fire will come from the mouths of The Two Witnesses . It is the Fire of the Word of God.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The true church is a light to the nations now, AMEN.. has been and always will be, you don't see it on the news, you may see it on youtube if you look close enough, but to really experience it you need to be part of it. AMEN I know people who who have sold everything they own,, to start orphanages and lead street kids to Christ, that is the light of the world shining, I know people who dont chase the American dream but chase people for Christ sake,,,,, I know people who do street ministry 24/7 proclaiming at the top of there lungs JESUS SAVES, this is the church shinning, if we are not living for Christ now we certainly won't die for him when our time of persecution comes IMO.

Who do you think is ministering to street children in Africa right now ?? the light
who do think is ministering to the local drug addicts and homeless in our local cities right now ?? the light
who do thing makes up the house churches in places like china right now? the light
who do think brings Jesus to places that Muslim rules and christians are killed for there faith?? the Light

I see the Light all over this world shinning right now, in a very dark time in history.

The gospel is being spread to every nation on the planet, that does not happen with out the light.

Dave I did not say that some Christians are awake...but the majority of Christians are not..They are asleep...The majority of Christians are compromising with the world, to make a living, to live quietly and so on...Watching TV programs that even the lost would not watch, compromising their values for the sake of convenience