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The Church and its place in the Tribulation

Bless you

When speaking of Israel as 'today's Israel' it can still be confusing to some, because today there are still two Israels.

Israel, the Holy land as it is called and the Spiritual Israel.
I understand what you are posting.

Israel [land] is the land given to the Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and for all generations from his seed.
If this was true, with out conditions, then they would still have the land . as they did here
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Israel [spiritual] was the faithful Jews but under the new covenant it is the Body of Christ, the ekklesia, the born again from above believers, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue, regardless of Jew or Gentile, only the born again are the ekklesia, therefore only the born again can be part of the spiritual Israel.
agreed
 
After the death of Jesus the Jews were scattered all over the world

Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Prophesy confirms the Jews will return to the land of promise

Thus said the Lord God: ...you, O mountains of Israel, shall yield your produce and bear your fruit for My people Israel, for their return is near. For I will care for you: I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. I will settle a large population on you, the whole House of Israel; the towns shall be resettled, and the ruined sites rebuilt. I will multiply men and beasts upon you, and they shall increase and be fertile, and I will resettle you as you were formerly, and will make you more prosperous than you were at first. And you shall know that I am the Lord. I will lead... My people Israel to you, and they shall possess you. You shall be their heritage, and you shall not again cause them to be bereaved. (Ezek. 36:8-12)

The book of Ezekiel contains a dual prophecy to the People of Israel.

In its first part, God tells the Jewish People that the land assigned to them will remain desolate as long as it is occupied by strangers, and they remain in exile. And so it was - a bleak, barren, undeveloped land - for over 2000 years.

In the second half of the prophecy, God describes the signs of the incipient redemption - how the land would appear just before the Jewish People would return forever. This part of the promise, too, began to come true, during the decades preceding the establishment of the Jewish state in Eretz Israel. This is the State of Israel, referred to in a Jewish prayer as the "first flowering of our redemption". From the deep sleep of oblivion in the absence of its sons and daughters, the land finally awakened.

On May 14, 1948 the State of Israel was declared and God's promise that the Jewish people would again be sovereign in their land was fulfilled.

Today Jewish people from all over the world continue to return to Israel, where cities that were once destroyed by their enemies have been rebuilt and where the soil is bursting with fruit, trees and flowers, just as the prophet Ezekiel had foretold.
 
@Reba1

The land covenant is as I understand it, an enlargement of the land aspect of the Abrahamic covenant identified in Genesis 15:18 and 17:8.

It reaffirmed God’s commitment to give the land area to Israel, and in the process revealed further important truths relating to it.

The boundaries of the Promised Land given to Abraham and his descendants were indicated in Numbers 34, particularly verses 1 and 2

This is my understanding, you or others may wish to add to this.

Shalom
 
We can brother, but there is as we know, the spiritual Israel, and the land Israel given to Abraham and all descendants.

There has to be the physical place Israel for the Jews to return to, the place that was declared a state again on 14 May 1948.

But also as we know, Israel is just like the rest of the world, lost souls, living in sin, every form of sin, including LGBTQ+

We are to pray for both Israel's brother, the spiritual Israel, the body of Christ, and the place Israel, for one we weep and for the other we rejoice in the Lord.

May the Father's will be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen
I fully understand what you are saying concerning the earthly and the promises made by GOD to those who walks this earth. But there is something else, for it is "Hidden" in Christ Jesus" therefore and it is Impossible to speak of those Things that are "REAL" and the things that belongs to The Spiritual" and "The Purpose of GOD"! For it is "Revealed" in The OLD Testament within It's "covenants" but only can be "Unlock" by the Revelation" of "JESUS The "ANOINTED of GOD" and that is where, it gets "Personal".

Everyone has the right to believe what so ever that person believes and excepts. They believe so they speak, for we believe and therefore we speak, for we judge no man, in the things that person allows for himself. For many believe that, mankind has a "freedom of His own will", I don't in reality, and i am not going to argument to defend my case or attack his. For we all will stand before "The Bema Seat":pensive:

To me the nation of "Israel" is no difference than The Nations of The Ethiopians! For There is NO Respect of Persons with GOD.

American Standard Version
for there is no respect of persons with God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For there is no partiality with God.
New International Version
For God does not show favoritism.

(Galatians 1)BSB
"I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!



Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. For I certify to you, brothers, that the gospel I preached was not devised by man. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

Just because i was born in the USA and appreciate the country that GOD has place me in. Does not mean that The USA :religious or theological thought patterns are my Guides! For I am "BORN of GOD" and if anyone thinks that I am less or my Brothers and sisters in Christ than The Nation of "Israel" for we are "Greater"! I know my Bible! I don't have a church! for the only thing I got Is "GOD"! and If it takes more, then I am "Cow" out of luck.

and please don't even try to quote "The Letter to The Romans", not until it has become a part of your "soul". So that you don't have to look it up but Know it. and it has become a part of you.:pensive: Living.

So let each one, embrace what he knows. and what his Father have taught him. One Father, One Faith, One Baptism, One LORD, One Spirit. One GOD.:pensive:

For we are Different, for we are "The Hidden" in "Christ Jesus"! For we are "The Peculiar People". Many do not realize this or understand it, and this is why they do not understand this kind of "Grace":pensive: They know the word, they know the definition, but truly, they really, really don't know "grace".

You're different:pensive: No, You are different. You are set apart.:pensive: Stop letting those Nominal christians place you into a box, they know nothing about. the only things they know, is words. They are "wells without water". and some of their wells runs deep.

If this world cannot knock you out of the Box, they sure will clutter your Box.
 
(Galatians 1)BSB
1Therefore, since you have been raised with Christ, strive for the things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
 
@Reba1

The land covenant is as I understand it, an enlargement of the land aspect of the Abrahamic covenant identified in Genesis 15:18 and 17:8.

It reaffirmed God’s commitment to give the land area to Israel, and in the process revealed further important truths relating to it.

The boundaries of the Promised Land given to Abraham and his descendants were indicated in Numbers 34, particularly verses 1 and 2

This is my understanding, you or others may wish to add to this.

Shalom
lost me
 
I fully understand what you are saying concerning the earthly and the promises made by GOD to those who walks this earth. But there is something else, for it is "Hidden" in Christ Jesus" therefore and it is Impossible to speak of those Things that are "REAL" and the things that belongs to The Spiritual" and "The Purpose of GOD"! For it is "Revealed" in The OLD Testament within It's "covenants" but only can be "Unlock" by the Revelation" of "JESUS The "ANOINTED of GOD" and that is where, it gets "Personal".

Everyone has the right to believe what so ever that person believes and excepts. They believe so they speak, for we believe and therefore we speak, for we judge no man, in the things that person allows for himself. For many believe that, mankind has a "freedom of His own will", I don't in reality, and i am not going to argument to defend my case or attack his. For we all will stand before "The Bema Seat":pensive:

To me the nation of "Israel" is no difference than The Nations of The Ethiopians! For There is NO Respect of Persons with GOD.

American Standard Version
for there is no respect of persons with God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For there is no partiality with God.
New International Version
For God does not show favoritism.

(Galatians 1)BSB
"I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!



Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. For I certify to you, brothers, that the gospel I preached was not devised by man. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

Just because i was born in the USA and appreciate the country that GOD has place me in. Does not mean that The USA :religious or theological thought patterns are my Guides! For I am "BORN of GOD" and if anyone thinks that I am less or my Brothers and sisters in Christ than The Nation of "Israel" for we are "Greater"! I know my Bible! I don't have a church! for the only thing I got Is "GOD"! and If it takes more, then I am "Cow" out of luck.

and please don't even try to quote "The Letter to The Romans", not until it has become a part of your "soul". So that you don't have to look it up but Know it. and it has become a part of you.:pensive: Living.

So let each one, embrace what he knows. and what his Father have taught him. One Father, One Faith, One Baptism, One LORD, One Spirit. One GOD.:pensive:

For we are Different, for we are "The Hidden" in "Christ Jesus"! For we are "The Peculiar People". Many do not realize this or understand it, and this is why they do not understand this kind of "Grace":pensive: They know the word, they know the definition, but truly, they really, really don't know "grace".

You're different:pensive: No, You are different. You are set apart.:pensive: Stop letting those Nominal christians place you into a box, they know nothing about. the only things they know, is words. They are "wells without water". and some of their wells runs deep.

If this world cannot knock you out of the Box, they sure will clutter your Box.


My dear brother, I understand what you say maybe more than you realise, I agree with many things you say.

But at times we have to try explain things of the world that relate to scripture and things of the spirit relating to scripture, the two as stated earlier and as we know are poles apart,.,

The discussion here in this thread is something that should be easy to reply to, Israel, but which Israel? The land given to Abraham or the spiritual Israel? It depends on what someone is saying as to which Israel they are referring to, we agree I am sure. Forums are a wonderful thing, but they can be most frustrating at times, a lot of discussions would not run to such length if we were face to face. But we are to look for the good in the bad, or not so good, it is a blessing to talk with brothers and sisters in Christ online, and others.

The other point we are all aware of brother, we are all growing in faith, we are all at different stages on the journey, we all know more about one subject than another, for me every day is a school day, until my last breath there will always be something to learn, I am always happy to say, on this topic this is the limit of my understanding at this stage.

Yes my friend, we are set apart, we are a peculiar people, but we are adopted, accepted by God, even at the sinner of sinners stage, that is truly amazing.

As for me, I am not tied to a denomination, I am not a member of a church, but I am a member of the Body of Christ, I am a spiritual stone, I submit myself totally to God through Jesus and thank him daily that he still has a job for me in this wicked world.

You say my friend 'I do not have a church' Praise the Lord. Even those who are trained ministers, who claim to have a church, don't have one. Even the congregations that say my church this and my church they are so blinkered, they do not have a church. Not one person on earth has a church, regardless of what they think and say, no not one.

There is only one church brother, the body of Christ, the ekklesia, we are part of it when born again from above, together we are spiritual stones, in the Body of Christ, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue, providing we are born again from above.

Thanks be to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in Jesus Name. Amen.
 
My dear brother, I understand what you say maybe more than you realise, I agree with many things you say.

But at times we have to try explain things of the world that relate to scripture and things of the spirit relating to scripture, the two as stated earlier and as we know are poles apart,.,

The discussion here in this thread is something that should be easy to reply to, Israel, but which Israel? The land given to Abraham or the spiritual Israel? It depends on what someone is saying as to which Israel they are referring to, we agree I am sure. Forums are a wonderful thing, but they can be most frustrating at times, a lot of discussions would not run to such length if we were face to face. But we are to look for the good in the bad, or not so good, it is a blessing to talk with brothers and sisters in Christ online, and others.

The other point we are all aware of brother, we are all growing in faith, we are all at different stages on the journey, we all know more about one subject than another, for me every day is a school day, until my last breath there will always be something to learn, I am always happy to say, on this topic this is the limit of my understanding at this stage.

Yes my friend, we are set apart, we are a peculiar people, but we are adopted, accepted by God, even at the sinner of sinners stage, that is truly amazing.

As for me, I am not tied to a denomination, I am not a member of a church, but I am a member of the Body of Christ, I am a spiritual stone, I submit myself totally to God through Jesus and thank him daily that he still has a job for me in this wicked world.

You say my friend 'I do not have a church' Praise the Lord. Even those who are trained ministers, who claim to have a church, don't have one. Even the congregations that say my church this and my church they are so blinkered, they do not have a church. Not one person on earth has a church, regardless of what they think and say, no not one.

There is only one church brother, the body of Christ, the ekklesia, we are part of it when born again from above, together we are spiritual stones, in the Body of Christ, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue, providing we are born again from above.

Thanks be to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in Jesus Name. Amen.

Well said all Israel is not Israel just as all who name the name Christian are not Christians .
 
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