The church is being deceived to believe in a dual natured false Messiah and they do not know!

[Sue D.]

Everyone's spirit came from God. And upon 'our' salvation, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us.

You're wanting to rewrite Scripture to make sense to You,. We Need to accept God's Word the way it's given to us. Because it is God's Word to us.

Jesus Christ was born into this world in order that we would know that He experienced life here just like we do. Except without sinning. He 'job' was to point us to the Father in heaven. Yes, He Did know that.

It's a lot like We are 'perfected' by the things 'we' suffer as believers here on earth. 'we' are told that as a believer , we Will suffer persecution in some form or another. Some will be more obvious than others -- maybe being laughed at at work -- maybe fired from a needed job because we won't be 'nice' to the boss. or do something we know is illegal for the sake Of. Depending on where we live / individual circumstances. But as we stand up for God's Word / Biblical ethics / morality -- we Will find that we Aren't alone.

But 'we' will never become Perfect while here on earth.

Jesus Christ was here setting an example for believers. Demonstrating that there Is something / someOne bigger / better 'out there' than we see 'here'.

Using the term "Immanuel' tells us that He truly was a fulfilled prophesy from Isaiah. While here on Earth -- He was the Man Christ Jesus / Jesus Christ.

It's Because of Jesus Christ that we Can be reconciled. And that was God's plan.

John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word and the Word was With God....... the Word being Jesus Christ. And the Word Was God. Jesus was both God and Man while here on earth. He Had to be Both 100 % divine and 100% human in order to be able to die for our sins and rise again bodily -- to be able to take care of our sinfulness. To show that He was Indeed, the Son of God and not simply another religious teacher of that day.

 

[Curtis]

My first question would be in your definition of WORD. How can we prove that the WORD of God was not just simply the PLAN of God that was fulfilled by JESUS in the flesh?

The Word of God is a person, not a plan! Jesus (the Word of God) came to execute the "plan" (also known as the will of God) of his Father. For any "plan" to be successful requires "wisdom" which is what Jesus is!

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[Curtis]

So in sending his word it had a goal to accomplish and Jesus did just that accomplish salvation for mankind.

Who do you think created ALL things visible, and invisible?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[Samson2020]

If Jesus was wisdom as you say then why did he need to be ministered to by Angels in the wilderness? Why did he need to be tempted by Satan as Satan was a created being and in the trinity doctrine it would mean that the thing created was tempting the creator?

 

[Curtis]

If Jesus was wisdom as you say

It is not what I said, it is what scripture says!

 

[Samson2020]

Could you provide that scripture please. I believe your quoting 1 Co 1:30 that states Jesus was made unto us WISDOM FROM GOD, NOT THAT JESUS WAS JUST WISDOM HIMSELF, as we know he did not know all things. He was the WAY unto SONship if you will he opened it up and you too can follow if you have faith to see the eventual outcome for yourself. If not then you will not receive what you had no faith in to obtain. What I'm saying is that he came to us as a human without the weight of a canal mind, grew up then got Baptized by his Father with the spirit and at that moment became a New creature as the heavens were opened up to him. After his ministry death and resurrection he was glorified and declared to be a God as a reward for his servantship and sacrifice. It is at this moment that the scriptures referring to him to be a God are fulfilled. Where there was once one now there are two. A Father and a Son who is a GOD but in subjection to his Father. As long as he was just a man that became a GOD we then have a chance to attain to the same level he did if we carry our cross and follow him. But if he started out as a GOD then you have no chance of attaining to that same level, as you are not a GOD to begin with He tells us in Revelation that he that overcomes will I grant to sit in my throne even as I overcame (what did he as GOD need to overcome) and am sit down in my Fathers throne. Proving again the time line of when he became a GOD! AFTER he overcame, not before. And if this is our reward it will not happen until we also overcome.

 

[Curtis]

Could you provide that scripture please. I believe your quoting 1 Co 1:30 that states Jesus was made unto us WISDOM FROM GOD, NOT THAT JESUS WAS JUST WISDOM HIMSELF

1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[Curtis]

we know he did not know all things.

Joh 16:30 Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God.”

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Now you have to decide what "part" of Jesus Christ "knew all things", and what part of the Son man "did not know all things"?

 

[Samson2020]

Agreed but it doesn't say that Jesus was wisdom. It says that he was the wisdom of GOD. In that what was accomplished by him was the way God had ordained to reconcile us all and Jesus was here to show us that WAY as a servant that became obedient unto the death of the cross. He knew what his Father had planned for him which was for us but yet he could not tell us as were told he would not open his mouth to speak unless it was in a parable.

I suppose the stumbling block, either way, is that my children did not exist until they were begotten of me. So how do we assert that Jesus who was begotten of the Father existed as a GOD prior to being begotten of GOD? Unless you understand where we all came from in the first place which was from GOD. MY Bible says that we came out from GOD have our existence in GOD and return to GOD. So in saying that, we were all there in the beginning of his plan to create or bring MANY SONS UNTO GLORY. If we came out from him which the Bible says we did then we are as old as he is spiritually speaking for we were and are
a part of him. The rib of God spiritually the Bride of Christ, just like the rib of Adam physically was Eve.

 

[Samson2020]

That verse you quote is similar to the verses of Jobs friends that got it wrong. It's black and white letters. They the disciples said we know you know all things but they were wrong because he said at least wicee that he did not know the hour nor the day of the end, nor who the father was going to seat at his left or right hand in the kingdom. Nice try but twisted to fit.

 

[Curtis]

But if he started out as a GOD then you have no chance of attaining to that same level, as you are not a GOD to begin with He tells us in Revelation that he that overcomes will I grant to sit in my throne even as I overcame (what did he as GOD need to overcome) and am sit down in my Fathers throne.

If Jesus is our savior then what did he do to save us? How can anyone overcome?

1Jn 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

What is the percentage of those who are born of God who overcomes? 100%!! "Everyone born of God..."

What is it that causes a person to be an overcomer?

1Jn 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Our faith is what causes a person to be an overcomer. Where did that faith come from?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (KJV)

Somebody might say to me, "Brother Curtis my Bible translation says it a different way"

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (ESV)

Nobody, no matter who they are can have "faith in the Son of God" until they first have the "faith of the Son of God"!!!

Faith comes only from the Son of God who is the Word of God from which it comes!

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Our faith is Jesus's faith that overcame the world!

 

[Curtis]

Agreed but it doesn't say that Jesus was wisdom. It says that he was the wisdom of GOD.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If the Word "was" God, then God "is" the Word!

 

[Curtis]

how do we assert that Jesus who was begotten of the Father existed as a GOD prior to being begotten of GOD?

Luk 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luk 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Luk 20:44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Obviously the religious leaders could not understand how Jesus Christ could be called the son of David when David lived long before Christ incarnation on earth. That is because they did not have a clue to who Jesus really was as God who always existed before his incarnation!

 

[Samson2020]

1Jn 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. When you use this you imply Jesus needed faith himself to overcome the world in your post. How could that be if he was God? But wait he was made a man so faith for him was a necessity just as it is for us.
Did Jesus ever display Faith in the Father, many many times! Where did his faith come from? GOD his Father. The faith that we have is the same faith that he received and it came from the same Father.
Kinda funny you would use two different translations where one says the faith IN the Son, and the other the faith OF the Son for the same verse then slap them together to say one must have faith of the Son before they can have faith in the Son. Never saw that done before but whatever makes your mind at ease is ok by me.

 

[Bill]

Your doctrine would require 2 Gods during the period of the Mosaic law, young Jesus GOD and the GOD himself, and we have been told many many times by God that there is no other God besides me "I know of none."
The whole point to this is that if Jesus were GOD in the flesh why was it necessary for him to be "perfected by the things he suffered". As God he should have been perfect already???? To go a bit further, if he was just a man that became a NEW creature through HOLY GHOST baptism (which if he were GOD that wouldn't have been necessary), that went on to become a GOD as GOD declares him to be a GOD right? Then this is also your goal and obtainable for he paved the WAY. What I'm saying is that if you cannot see what he was and what he became then you could never have the faith to obtain what he got. And as everything is obtained by Faith with our Father those who couldn't possibly imagine this outcome could have no faith in it, therefore left out. But with trinity there can be no goal set that high because you would need to start off as a GOD.

In the concept of God being duel, as 1 God .

Why when God says to Moses ' I am who am " why can not this be translated correctly into English . Its because the word for I in ancient Hebrew ( and this word is only used in reference with God) grammatically it is a singular plural noun . In other words it would be the same as saying ' I's am who am '

 

[Samson2020]

In the concept of God being duel, as 1 God .

Why when God says to Moses ' I am who am " why can not this be translated correctly into English . Its because the word for I in ancient Hebrew ( and this word is only used in reference with God) grammatically it is a singular plural noun . In other words it would be the same as saying ' I's am who am '

You miss the entire point in having a HIGHER FAITH as usual, pick out a word or a single sentence then try to turn the reader away from the entire post. But God wil allow the hungry seeker to find it and disregard the deflection you bring.

 

[Bill]

1Jn 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. When you use this you imply Jesus needed faith himself to overcome the world in your post. How could that be if he was God? But wait he was made a man so faith for him was a necessity just as it is for us.
Did Jesus ever display Faith in the Father, many many times! Where did his faith come from? GOD his Father. The faith that we have is the same faith that he received and it came from the same Father.
Kinda funny you would use two different translations where one says the faith IN the Son, and the other the faith OF the Son for the same verse then slap them together to say one must have faith of the Son before they can have faith in the Son. Never saw that done before but whatever makes your mind at ease is ok by me.

But there is no doubt that the ' mystery ' of the Triune God isnt for all to fully understand.

Hard enough for many to grasp the union of the Holy Spirit . To understand it isnt ' Just Love " but it is Its own Entity.

The best discription i know of the Holy Spirit , it is Gods love for the Son and The Sons love for God.

 

[Sue D.]

The 'mystery' is 'Christ in us, the hope of glory'.

1Jn 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. When you use this you imply Jesus needed faith himself to overcome the world in your post. How could that be if he was God? But wait he was made a man so faith for him was a necessity just as it is for us.
Did Jesus ever display Faith in the Father, many many times! Where did his faith come from? GOD his Father. The faith that we have is the same faith that he received and it came from the same Father.
Kinda funny you would use two different translations where one says the faith IN the Son, and the other the faith OF the Son for the same verse then slap them together to say one must have faith of the Son before they can have faith in the Son. Never saw that done before but whatever makes your mind at ease is ok by me.

What passage are you referring to -- 'faith In // faith Of / the Son. The context of the verses is important.

 

[Dave M]

Just how important is i

But there is no doubt that the ' mystery ' of the Triune God isnt for all to fully understand.

Can you know Jesus with out understanding it??

 

[Samson2020]

To Sue
Post #111 refer to Galatians 2:20 KJV AND ESV Translations. Per Curtis.