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The offer of Salvation is universal, but the application is only : "by Faith".

Words have certian connotations and you might hear a word and for you it means something for which you find it is not the best word to use to communicate a point in a sentence. I think you are stuck on the word offer and the connotations you have associated with that word.

The dictionary defines the word gift as:
noun: gift; plural noun: gifts
a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
"a Christmas gift"


The dictionary defines the word offer as:
verb
verb:
  1. present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired.
    "may I offer you a drink?"


    noun
    noun: offer; plural noun: offers
    an expression of readiness to do or give something if desired.
    "he had accepted Mallory's offer to buy him a drink"
@Brightfame52

The words have overlap. The emphasis on the word gift has to do with it being free.
The emphasis on the word offer has to with the recipient having the opportunity to accept of reject.

However both components are present in both words. Gifts can be rejected just like offers can be rejected.
So all gifts, in that sense are offers. The primary difference is simply that all offers are not gifts, because
not all offers are "free". And all gifts have to be free. But an offer could be "free".

And if someone presented an "offer" which was truly "free" then it would be a gift.
It is like rectangles and squares my friend.

You are smart, you know this. All squares are rectangles (because rectangle is a 4 sided figure), but not all rectangles
are squares (because a square has the added criteria of having the sides equal).

Similarly, all gifts are offers (because both can be rejected), but not all offers are gifts, because a gift must
be free and not all offers are free. So the word gift is like he square (has the added criteria of being free), the
world offer is like the rectangle.

And for the purpose of this discussion, the offer of Salvation that is being mentioned, is an offer which is free, therefore
putting it also into the category of a gift.

Any questions?
 
I did grace through faith is the gift obtained through faith.
Creative!!!

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Seems the scripture itself says something different than your "paradigm" claims.

Everybody only remains alive by Grace (unmerited favor), instead of having been judged on the spot when they fell into SIN, and sent to hell.

The passage is clear that FAITH (and that not of yourself) is God's gift. Rom 10:17.
 
Creative!!!

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Seems the scripture itself says something different than your "paradigm" claims.

Everybody only remains alive by Grace (unmerited favor), instead of having been judged on the spot when they fell into SIN, and sent to hell.

The passage is clear that FAITH (and that not of yourself) is God's gift. Rom 10:17.
Creative way you have to ignore that grace is the gift obtained by faith. How long have you been a Calvinist ?Hebrew 11:6 says those who go to God must believe that He is NOT that God gifts faith to believe in Him.
 
Creative way you have to ignore that grace is the gift obtained by faith.
EVERYBODY lives (Physically) by grace. It's the natural state of all humanity.
How long have you been a Calvinist ?
I've never been a "Calvinist" - I don't do "Systematics".
Hebrew 11:6 says those who go to God must believe that He is.
Sure - no problem. the devils believe in God.
NOT that God gifts faith to believe in Him.
However Romans 10:17 states that Faith comes by God's WORD, which when God CONVICTS YOU of your Sin - that's potentially the beginning of Faith, if you surrender to Him, and repent.
 
EVERYBODY lives (Physically) by grace. It's the natural state of all humanity.

I've never been a "Calvinist" - I don't do "Systematics".

Sure - no problem. the devils believe in God.

However Romans 10:17 states that Faith comes by God's WORD, which when God CONVICTS YOU of your Sin - that's potentially the beginning of Faith, if you surrender to Him, and repent.
So you dismiss Hebrews 11:6 because the devils believe in God ? Agree God’s word and believing the scripture is the beginning of faith.
 
Words have certian connotations and you might hear a word and for you it means something for which you find it is not the best word to use to communicate a point in a sentence. I think you are stuck on the word offer and the connotations you have associated with that word.

The dictionary defines the word gift as:
noun: gift; plural noun: gifts
a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
"a Christmas gift"


The dictionary defines the word offer as:
verb
verb:
  1. present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired.
    "may I offer you a drink?"


    noun
    noun: offer; plural noun: offers
    an expression of readiness to do or give something if desired.
    "he had accepted Mallory's offer to buy him a drink"
You seem to be stuck on the word offer, nowhere is that word used in reference to salvation or eternal life. Both are Promised and Given by God, not offered Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given not offered him power over all flesh, that he should give not offer eternal life to as many as thou hast given not offer him.
 
@Brightfame52

The words have overlap. The emphasis on the word gift has to do with it being free.
The emphasis on the word offer has to with the recipient having the opportunity to accept of reject.

However both components are present in both words. Gifts can be rejected just like offers can be rejected.
So all gifts, in that sense are offers. The primary difference is simply that all offers are not gifts, because
not all offers are "free". And all gifts have to be free. But an offer could be "free".

And if someone presented an "offer" which was truly "free" then it would be a gift.
It is like rectangles and squares my friend.

You are smart, you know this. All squares are rectangles (because rectangle is a 4 sided figure), but not all rectangles
are squares (because a square has the added criteria of having the sides equal).

Similarly, all gifts are offers (because both can be rejected), but not all offers are gifts, because a gift must
be free and not all offers are free. So the word gift is like he square (has the added criteria of being free), the
world offer is like the rectangle.

And for the purpose of this discussion, the offer of Salvation that is being mentioned, is an offer which is free, therefore
putting it also into the category of a gift.

Any questions?
Gods Gifts cant be rejected, thats nonsense and unhear of in scripture Rom 11:29

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

James 1:17

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
 
You seem to be stuck on the word offer, nowhere is that word used in reference to salvation or eternal life. Both are Promised and Given by God, not offered Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given not offered him power over all flesh, that he should give not offer eternal life to as many as thou hast given not offer him.
OOooh ok,

So the difference for you is gift means that you automatically have it?

And offer means that you can take or leave. Is that your point?
 
Gods Gifts cant be rejected, thats nonsense and unhear of in scripture Rom 11:29

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

James 1:17

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

The repentance means that God does not take it back. That is true.

But you don't think that people have freewill to reject Jesus's gift?

Have you ever known people who had the anointing of the Holy Spirit but lost it due to their lifestyles?
Shall we look at the Old Testament? King Saul, Samson?

New Testament, although not explicitly stated, when the disciples were performing the miracles
Judas was with them. Do you think Judas performed any miracles with power?
What did Jesus said when they bragged and said, "Lord even the demons submit to us"?
He said don't rejoice at this but rejoice that your name is written in the Book of Life.
 
The repentance means that God does not take it back. That is true.

But you don't think that people have freewill to reject Jesus's gift?

Have you ever known people who had the anointing of the Holy Spirit but lost it due to their lifestyles?
Shall we look at the Old Testament? King Saul, Samson?

New Testament, although not explicitly stated, when the disciples were performing the miracles
Judas was with them. Do you think Judas performed any miracles with power?
What did Jesus said when they bragged and said, "Lord even the demons submit to us"?
He said don't rejoice at this but rejoice that your name is written in the Book of Life.
God gives it, so its received. No such thing as offering the Gift of Eternal life, or the Gift of Salvation, thats folklore.
 
God gives a Gift, so its automatically received.

Ok, I think that is the point of difference right there.

The term Gift for you means given and receiving and my understanding was something different.

So let us go with your definition of gift meaning "given and received".
Then what do you make of verses that tell us that God does not force Godself on us?

**************************Read carefully the part below, please and see if you follow my logic, if you don't follow my logic, let me know
which points don't connect for you. ***************


Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

You might be thinking, how in the world is the verse above related to not forcing God'self on us?
Well read it again.

God is pleased by faith; this faith requires us to believe, this is what
we do(required of us). And this is precisely how
we receive the gift given, we receive it by faith. Therefore if you are using a term which defines God doing
the giving and the believing (since it can't be refused in your mind), then that might be problematic. I could accept you
saying that God gives us the gift of faith to receive the gift, but that is different then God doing the believing for us. Correct?

So your definition of faith
which allows no room for refusal of the item being given, does not seem to work well with what
we know about God's character which does not force on others, and does not fit with the method through which scripture tells
us this "gift" must be received, which is by faith. And unless you say that God is not only giving but also believing for us, therefore ensuring
we receive it because God also did the faith part for us. But if God is doing the faith part for us, you could see how it really takes away

the individual's responsibility to believe if you are telling them that God is doing the believing(faith) for them to receive the gift.

(1) Is that what you are saying, God believes (has faith to receive the gift) for us?
(2) Or are you saying that this gift is not receive by faith, God just gives it to us?
(3) Or maybe you are saying that God will only give the gift to those who have faith, therefore it will always be received?

**Seems maybe like you are saying #3. Which in that sense I can see why the word offer would offend you.
And in that case, if it is #3, then it is more like God waiting for whoever has faith and then responding, less
about just giving the "gift of salvation", but responding to those who show faith with the "gift". Because
if the faith is there, then it will of course be accepted and refusal is not an option in this sense.
 
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Ok, I think that is the point of difference right there.

The term Gift for you means given and receiving and my understanding was something different.

So let us go with your definition of gift meaning "given and received".
Then what do you make of verses that tell us that God does not force Godself on us?

**************************Read carefully the part below, please and see if you follow my logic, if you don't follow my logic, let me know
which points don't connect for you. ***************


Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

You might be thinking, how in the world is the verse above related to not forcing God'self on us?
Well read it again.

God is pleased by faith; this faith requires us to believe, this is what
we do(required of us). And this is precisely how
we receive the gift given, we receive it by faith. Therefore if you are using a term which defines God doing
the giving and the believing (since it can't be refused in your mind), then that might be problematic. I could accept you
saying that God gives us the gift of faith to receive the gift, but that is different then God doing the believing for us. Correct?

So your definition of faith
which allows no room for refusal of the item being given, does not seem to work well with what
we know about God's character which does not force on others, and does not fit with the method through which scripture tells
us this "gift" must be received, which is by faith. And unless you say that God is not only giving but also believing for us, therefore ensuring
we receive it because God also did the faith part for us. But if God is doing the faith part for us, you could see how it really takes away

the individual's responsibility to believe if you are telling them that God is doing the believing(faith) for them to receive the gift.

(1) Is that what you are saying, God believes (has faith to receive the gift) for us?
(2) Or are you saying that this gift is not receive by faith, God just gives it to us?
(3) Or maybe you are saying that God will only give the gift to those who have faith, therefore it will always be received?

**Seems maybe like you are saying #3. Which in that sense I can see why the word offer would offend you.
And in that case, if it is #3, then it is more like God waiting for whoever has faith and then responding, less
about just giving the "gift of salvation", but responding to those who show faith with the "gift". Because
if the faith is there, then it will of course be accepted and refusal is not an option in this sense.
I think I got it now based on how you were looking at it, and how you were defining gift vs offer.
 
Ok, I think that is the point of difference right there.

The term Gift for you means given and receiving and my understanding was something different.

So let us go with your definition of gift meaning "given and received".
Then what do you make of verses that tell us that God does not force Godself on us?

**************************Read carefully the part below, please and see if you follow my logic, if you don't follow my logic, let me know
which points don't connect for you. ***************


Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

You might be thinking, how in the world is the verse above related to not forcing God'self on us?
Well read it again.

God is pleased by faith; this faith requires us to believe, this is what
we do(required of us). And this is precisely how
we receive the gift given, we receive it by faith. Therefore if you are using a term which defines God doing
the giving and the believing (since it can't be refused in your mind), then that might be problematic. I could accept you
saying that God gives us the gift of faith to receive the gift, but that is different then God doing the believing for us. Correct?

So your definition of faith
which allows no room for refusal of the item being given, does not seem to work well with what
we know about God's character which does not force on others, and does not fit with the method through which scripture tells
us this "gift" must be received, which is by faith. And unless you say that God is not only giving but also believing for us, therefore ensuring
we receive it because God also did the faith part for us. But if God is doing the faith part for us, you could see how it really takes away

the individual's responsibility to believe if you are telling them that God is doing the believing(faith) for them to receive the gift.

(1) Is that what you are saying, God believes (has faith to receive the gift) for us?
(2) Or are you saying that this gift is not receive by faith, God just gives it to us?
(3) Or maybe you are saying that God will only give the gift to those who have faith, therefore it will always be received?

**Seems maybe like you are saying #3. Which in that sense I can see why the word offer would offend you.
And in that case, if it is #3, then it is more like God waiting for whoever has faith and then responding, less
about just giving the "gift of salvation", but responding to those who show faith with the "gift". Because
if the faith is there, then it will of course be accepted and refusal is not an option in this sense.
I never said anything about God forcing anything, you must have the wrong poster. My statement says when God gives a Gift its received. God gives the Gift of Eternal life by giving a New birth. The New Birth is accompanied with Faith and Repentance, and all other Spiritual Blessings.
 
I never said anything about God forcing anything, you must have the wrong poster. My statement says when God gives a Gift its received. God gives the Gift of Eternal life by giving a New birth. The New Birth is accompanied with Faith and Repentance, and all other Spiritual Blessings.
Understood. Thanks.
 
Greetings,

may I take this to another level?

I never said anything about God forcing anything, you must have the wrong poster. My statement says when God gives a Gift its received. God gives the Gift of Eternal life by giving a New birth. The New Birth is accompanied with Faith and Repentance, and all other Spiritual Blessings.

God gives gifts so that we can and should and do give them to others ... not for ourselves to keep and 'enjoy'.

When we do not share out the gifts given, we are, in effect, stealing or robbing others of what God has given us, as stewards, to give them.

Remember the feeding of the thousands? Jesus gave the food to the Disciples. Not so that they could have dinner but to give to those whom it was given.

Stagnant waters become lifeless and undrinkable. The Life we are given must 'flow' as rivers of living water.


Bless you ....><>
 
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