The preachers getting rich from poor Americans

[Bendito]

So -- what Does it mean.

It means "forsake not the gathering of yourselves together." For example; You know, Sue, that my Lady and I do not attend church...We do not, however forsake the gathering of ourselves together.....If my Lady and I get together, the Holy Spirit joins us because of our praise to God, we are gathered together...scripturally. If I get on my knees and spend time in the Word, and the Holy Spirit is teaching me, I am gathered together...scripturally. How many times have I gone to church and the Holy Spirit was bound, unable to take part, because of legalism and or unbelief? That was not gathering of selves together....Where there is unbelief there is no unity of spirit.

 

[Dave M]

I got a problem too brother.

They are not practicing what they preach.

So you are suggesting it is alright for a ministry to be worth 50 to 150 million dollars.

When people are hard up, living on the streets etc etc

I think not brother.

They are drawing large salaries from the ministries also.

these ministries tell people what they want to here thus they have a large following, just like the bible tells us will happen

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luke 12:33-34

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luke 12:33-34

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

So -- as a believer -- it's none of my business as to What anyone else is doing? Shouldn't we be concerned about other's ? I think So. How are we going to be able To minister to others if, as you say, we are not to be concerned -- that what's going on with others is none of 'my ' business.

We Pray and if the Father wants us to speak to them we will have what they need.

However that's a far cry from what we were talking about seeing how it started with you saying we can tell there hearts by their cars and homes and where they shop etc.

Okay --NOW you're adding that church services are over with and some of the men are choosing to go to the lake to have some fun. That is changing the previous qualifiers.
And, yes, of Course it's perfectly okay To go have fun and when that situation Does arise -- you Are there to minister To that person.

No mam no adding or trickery.
You said Christians being at the lake on weekends and how that was wrong.

So I asked what did it say to you that A Pastor and Brothers went fishing with me.
See you quickly assumed the worse but had No Idea about the truth......its the same with judging people by their stuff.

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Your next post #74 doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does.
They take everything the ministry has and add up a dollar figure and say that is what the Pastor is worth or has.

Most cases the pastor doesn't own any of it.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I got a problem too brother.

They are not practicing what they preach.

So you are suggesting it is alright for a ministry to be worth 50 to 150 million dollars.

When people are hard up, living on the streets etc etc

I think not brother.

They are drawing large salaries from the ministries also.

Do you personally know any of them?
Do you know any one who knows them personally?
Do you know where every dime comes from or where it goes?

Pretty sure you will have to answer no to every question.

So how can you make such a judgment on them?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

these ministries tell people what they want to here thus they have a large following, just like the bible tells us will happen

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,

Greetings Dave,
I will ask you the same.

Do you personally know any of them?
Do you know any one who knows them personally?
Do you know where every dime comes from or where it goes?

Have you a real knowledge of what they teach

Pretty sure you will have to answer no to every question.

So how can you make such a judgment on them?

 

[Bendito]

The pastor of those ministries often make investments with their own money, guided by the Lord...You could do the same if you trusted God to guide you.. I know of one of them, was told by the Lord to buy a certain piece of land...While it looked worthless to him, he bought it anyway....A year later the state bought it from him to build an interchange for the freeway....God does bless his people....If they will trust Him.
The thing is..."Christians make assumptions based on simple jealousy or the like to pass judgment on others. THAT is sin.

 

[Sue D.]

It means "forsake not the gathering of yourselves together." For example; You know, Sue, that my Lady and I do not attend church...We do not, however forsake the gathering of ourselves together.....If my Lady and I get together, the Holy Spirit joins us because of our praise to God, we are gathered together...scripturally. If I get on my knees and spend time in the Word, and the Holy Spirit is teaching me, I am gathered together...scripturally. How many times have I gone to church and the Holy Spirit was bound, unable to take part, because of legalism and or unbelief? That was not gathering of selves together....Where there is unbelief there is no unity of spirit.

As you and your wife get together, the Holy Spirit indwells each believer, so, yes, He is there -- but that does Not make 'three of you". Three of you would be you, your wife and another believer = three, Gathered together means more than one person. = two or more.

The Holy Spirit indwells each believer -- so in any congregation where there are believers -- the Holy Spirit is Not bound at all. Legalism or unbelief does Not hinder the working Of the Holy Spirit. Because part of the role Of the Holy Spirit Is to convict either a non-believer Or a believer who needs 'convicting'.

My suggestion is that you and your wife find other people to read Scripture with and pray with.

 

[Bendito]

As you and your wife get together, the Holy Spirit indwells each believer, so, yes, He is there -- but that does Not make 'three of you". Three of you would be you, your wife and another believer = three, Gathered together means more than one person. = two or more.

The Holy Spirit indwells each believer -- so in any congregation where there are believers -- the Holy Spirit is Not bound at all. Legalism or unbelief does Not hinder the working Of the Holy Spirit. Because part of the role Of the Holy Spirit Is to convict either a non-believer Or a believer who needs 'convicting'.

My suggestion is that you and your wife find other people to read Scripture with and pray with.

My Lady, me, and the Holy Spirit make three. Then our daughter, when she joins us makes four. and anybody else that joins us.....And of course...the Word is there.....
But why would you say that unbelief or legalism does not hinder the Holy Spirit....Here's an instance. ....
Matthew 13:58

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. He could not because of unbelief.

 

[Sue D.]

The Holy Spirit is Always at work -- convicting, teaching, comforting, etc.

The Holy Spirit does Not equal a human person being present. He 'resides' in a born-again believer -- but is Not a human being present. so, you're also suggesting that since you have a Bible that you're reading that That constitutes yet Another 'person' being present.?

You're trying to find excuses in Scripture.

 

[Bendito]

The Holy Spirit is Always at work -- convicting, teaching, comforting, etc.

The Holy Spirit does Not equal a human person being present. He 'resides' in a born-again believer -- but is Not a human being present. so, you're also suggesting that since you have a Bible that you're reading that That constitutes yet Another 'person' being present.?

You're trying to find excuses in Scriptre.

I would not minimize the Holy Spirit, Sue. If you don't count the Holy Spirit as part of your group, you wind up with all sorts of silly doctrines going on....In a born again person, (I no longer call them believers) the Holy Spirit is, as you say, convicting, teaching, comforting. If He is ignored though, as happens so often, He might as well be locked in a closet...He is the main member of a gathering...and is too often ignored.
And just for your information....I need no excuse to stay away from the organized churches....I have good reason to stay away.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I'm curious as to why Christians are so disobedient to the Word, criticizing Gods anointed...This goes against the Word and is encouraged by so many "believers" and allowed by this Christian Forum. Why is that?

Hello Brother Bendito,
I was not going to comment on this but I read the above, and a question came to mind. How do you know the people that are being spoken of here are as you say "Gods anointed"?
I find hardly a difference between the Priesthood of our Lord's Earthly Ministry day who would be according to all accounts "Gods anointed". Or are you saying like David did concerning Saul, when he had the opportunity kill him, but did not because he was God's anointed? And so believe that even the charlatan can be God's anointed and should be left to God to deal with?

The sad thing about all this brother is that they too will be judged and even more harshly for they are called to be and are not, what they should be doing and do not. Our Lord was accused of many things, but evidence could not be found of any wrong doing. Only lies presented. If truth is communicated by our Brother Paul in this thread. Then at the very least charity is most lacking.

Additionally my concern is that they could easily be identified as those who were spoken of in Matthew 7:15, as being in sheeps clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves. For the sake of their souls I truly hope this is not the case.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Bendito]

Hello Brother Bendito,
I was not going to comment on this but I read the above, and a question came to mind. How do you know the people that are being spoken of here are as you say "Gods anointed"?
I find hardly a difference between the Priesthood of our Lord's Earthly Ministry day who would be according to all accounts "Gods anointed". Or are you saying like David did concerning Saul, when he had the opportunity kill him, but did not because he was God's anointed? And so believe that even the charlatan can be God's anointed and should be left to God to deal with?

The sad thing about all this brother is that they too will be judged and even more harshly for they are called to be and are not, what they should be doing and do not. Our Lord was accused of many things, but evidence could not be found of any wrong doing. Only lies presented. If truth is communicated by our Brother Paul in this thread. Then at the very least charity is most lacking.

Additionally my concern is that they could easily be identified as those who were spoken of in Matthew 7:15, as being in sheeps clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves. For the sake of their souls I truly hope this is not the case.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Good question Nick....and truly, I do not have scripture for it....I see it though as, If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....I would not presume to judge a preacher who wins souls for the kingdom as being anything but the anointed....Yes they may have theirs weaknesses, (sins) but who does not? Are we free of sin that we can judge?

 

[Sue D.]

I would not minimize the Holy Spirit, Sue. If you don't count the Holy Spirit as part of your group, you wind up with all sorts of silly doctrines going on....In a born again person, (I no longer call them believers) the Holy Spirit is, as you say, convicting, teaching, comforting. If He is ignored though, as happens so often, He might as well be locked in a closet...He is the main member of a gathering...and is too often ignored.
And just for your information....I need no excuse to stay away from the organized churches....I have good reason to stay away.

Bendito -- You give yourself excuses to stay away from organized churches. Now - maybe - a person lives in an area where there are no good organized churches. But I'd sort of wonder How that person came to 'faith in Christ' in the 1st place. That person would have had to be around some believer to be able To hear and accept the Gospel unto salvation. Or maybe by listening to a good preacher on TV. In which case -- there would be a need to visit with a local pastor and share what you've learned. Even missionaries who go to foreign countries and are not initially around other believers , have support from other missionaries or church people --they go through screening to find out what they Do believe According to Scripture. They are Not in isolation. Missionaries reach out to others to form Bible studies and churches. That is there entire purpose.

So to say that it's just you and your wife and maybe your daughter to fellowship with-- is isolating yourselves from needed Christian fellowship. Everyone needs to be around others to give another perspective of passages of Scripture.

Scripture Does give specific guidelines / qualifications for pastors / deacons. So, yes, a congregation Is responsible for having a pastor who follows those qualifications.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

How do you know the people that are being spoken of here are as you say "Gods anointed"?

They would not have been able to do what they have if they were not anointed.

If truth is communicated by our Brother Paul in this thread. Then at the very least charity is most lacking.

If ? There is no truth in these media articles. What is been presented is False.

Better Question to ask is.....
Do the sources know personally these men of God or have anything to do with their ministry? That would be No!

Do they have accurate information? Again No they do not.

I am not saying all the ministries that have been on tv are correct for their are huksters out there but that is up to God to deal with them.

With that said.......if you are going to allow members to bash Pastors and which have no real clue then don't condemn those who stand up for them.

Let's see how those same members would respond if we start a thread bashing their pastors.

I sit under at least three that have been mentioned in various threads and I know that what they say is incorrect.

Brother Nick I am in no way writing with an attitude but with Love for my Pastors.

Blessings and Love in Christ

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- You give yourself excuses to stay away from organized churches. Now - maybe - a person lives in an area where there are no good organized churches. But I'd sort of wonder How that person came to 'faith in Christ' in the 1st place. That person would have had to be around some believer to be able To hear and accept the Gospel unto salvation. Or maybe by listening to a good preacher on TV. In which case -- there would be a need to visit with a local pastor and share what you've learned. Even missionaries who go to foreign countries and are not initially around other believers , have support from other missionaries or church people --they go through screening to find out what they Do believe According to Scripture. They are Not in isolation. Missionaries reach out to others to form Bible studies and churches. That is there entire purpose.

So to say that it's just you and your wife and maybe your daughter to fellowship with-- is isolating yourselves from needed Christian fellowship. Everyone needs to be around others to give another perspective of passages of Scripture.

Scripture Does give specific guidelines / qualifications for pastors / deacons. So, yes, a congregation Is responsible for having a pastor who follows those qualifications.

As I said Sue....I need no excuse to stay away from organized churches....So I make no excuse...I did not come to the in a church but in a bar. Yes, Jesus DOES go to bars... I ran a bar, and lived there too. A man came to see me, sent by his wife, who I had been watching for almost a year...That lady shone with the love of God....Where did I watch her? When she came to the store that I also ran. She would also run her hand along the shiny bar counter and often there was a scrap of paper on hte bar when she left....containing a scripture verse. The things she did, the things she said, carried only one message...."Jesus loves you, and He wants a relationship with you. She is a believer....So anyway, she sent her husband, who is a Christian, and I might add, a slick salesman to give me the Word....He tried to lead me to the Lord, but I did not trust him. and when he asked me if I wanted to pray with him, or pray silently following him, he gave me my escape route. LOL I could not wait for him to leave although I knew that all he said was true....All I could see was the witness of his wife. So when I was alone, finally, I prayed then and received Jesus....Went to church and was condemned by the Christians there because I ran a bar. My introduction to Christian churches....Keep them Sue....You need them.
You say I would need to visit a pastor to tell him I was saved? Yeah....he's the one who led the condemnation in his church.....even preached against me.

The problem is, Sue the churches have formulas for everything. But little truth. But here I go again. I'm not allowed to share what I feel here, when I feel, on TJ so I'll shut up.

 

[Dave M]

With that said.......if you are going to allow members to bash Pastors and which have no real clue then don't condemn those who stand up for them.

, I pray God opens your eyes. These tv preachers preach only what appeals to the flesh every message is about giving to get, please seek discernment brother, maybe we should post a video from KC seeing him say its time to increase your wealth by tithing, that my freind is the wrong heart, love you Jim and hate to see you so deceived by these men, but I wont argue with you as the Love of Chist is what unites us,

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Brother Nick I am in no way writing with an attitude but with Love for my Pastors

Greetings Jim @Wired 4 Fishen

I was unaware that your pastors were being discussed here.....I had thought that it was a generic conversation with regard to rich prosperity type preachers.

I personally find it difficult to grasp how a pastor can get richer and richer by taking from his congregation. Media reports such as Joel Osteen refusing to open his church up for hurricane victims adds to this difficulty.

Brother Jim perhaps if you could share your personal experience this would be most helpful.

Blesssings