The preachers getting rich from poor Americans

[Bendito]

Greetings Jim @Wired 4 Fishen

I was unaware that your pastors were being discussed here.....I had thought that it was a generic conversation with regard to rich prosperity type preachers.

I personally find it difficult to grasp how a pastor can get richer and richer by taking from his congregation. Media reports such as Joel Osteen refusing to open his church up for hurricane victims adds to this difficulty.

Brother Jim perhaps if you could share your personal experience this would be most helpful.

Blesssings

Sister Most of those pastors invest their own money and get rich. Jealousy and ignorance of facts produce most of the hate that people spout against them.

 

[Dave M]

didnt take long to look up this up at 47.28 show this mans heart, if you can not discern, pray for discerning gift, he is about the flesh and thats all. I pray for him as well as he is as blind as his followers. I am sure he believes what he says.

I am not attacking him, I am attacking his message he is a false teacher

 

[Christ4Ever]

Good question Nick....and truly, I do not have scripture for it....I see it though as, If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....I would not presume to judge a preacher who wins souls for the kingdom as being anything but the anointed....Yes they may have theirs weaknesses, (sins) but who does not? Are we free of sin that we can judge?

I agree with you on having weaknesses. As you say "who does not". I don't thing that being "sinless" is a prerequisite to being able to judge brother. :smile: I believe what is really needed is that the believer have discernment. The ability to know right from almost right is the way Charles Spurgeon said it. I look at the part where Brother Paul mentions the man seeking help, and being told by a person in the ministry that they couldn't help him, because if they helped him they'd have to help everyone. I don't see the justification they used as acceptable in anyway shape or form. I'm curious if the faith they have to believe that God could provide the millions/billions, but not enough for Him to provide them with the resources to help those who show up at the door? Or do they believe what they have was from their own strength and effort?

I scratch my head in wonder brother, as I'm sure you do as well, when contemplating the World through the lens of His Word. Heavy sigh brother. We'll know the truth of it one day!

With the Love of Christ Jesus. Thanks for listening.
YBIC
Nick
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[Bendito]

I agree with you on having weaknesses. As you say "who does not". I don't thing that being "sinless" is a prerequisite to being able to judge brother. :smile: I believe what is really needed is that the believer have discernment. The ability to know right from almost right is the way Charles Spurgeon said it. I look at the part where Brother Paul mentions the man seeking help, and being told by a person in the ministry that they couldn't help him, because if they helped him they'd have to help everyone. I don't see the justification they used as acceptable in anyway shape or form. I'm curious if the faith they have to believe that God could provide the millions/billions, but not enough for Him to provide them with the resources to help those who show up at the door? Or do they believe what they have was from their own strength and effort?

I scratch my head in wonder brother, as I'm sure you do as well, when contemplating the World through the lens of His Word. Heavy sigh brother. We'll know the truth of it one day!

With the Love of Christ Jesus. Thanks for listening.
YBIC
Nick
<><

That's true Nick....We need discernment and sinlessness before we judge anybody.....That means we can discern whether or not a message prached is right or not....To listen, apply it to ourselves,and grow thereby, or whether or not we should stay away from that preacher......But not to judge. because we are not sinless.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Thank you for your reply @Bendito

My understanding was that theses preachers get rich from donations and collection s from their congregation......whilst many in the congregation remain poor.

Here is are a couple of reports on Creflo Dollar


By 2007, he was preaching to a congregation of 30,000 members with $69 million in revenue through gross cash collections. Both his prosperity gospel-style teachings and his lavish lifestyle have been criticized. He owns two Rolls-Royces, a private jet, and three multi-million dollar homes.

Dollar is known for his controversial teachings regarding prosperity theology.He has long been criticized for living a lavish lifestyle. He owns two Rolls-Royces, a private jet, and high-end real estate such as a million-dollar home in Atlanta, a $2.5 million home in Demarest, New Jersey, and a home in Manhattan that he bought for $2.5 million in 2006 and sold for $3.75 million in 2012.Dollar has refused to disclose his salary. For declining to disclose any financial information to independent audit, Creflo Dollar Ministries received a grade of "F" (failing) for financial transparency by the organization Ministry Watch

 

[Bendito]

didnt take long to look up this up at 47.28 show this mans heart, if you can not discern, pray for discerning gift, he is about the flesh and thats all. I pray for him as well as he is as blind as his followers. I am sure he believes what he says.

I am not attacking him, I am attacking his message he is a false teacher

Dave.....You are judging him....."He is a false teacher" You said that.....If you were attacking his message you would have said the message was false teaching....

 

[Bendito]

Thank you for your reply @Bendito

My understanding was that theses preachers get rich from donations and collection s from their congregation......whilst many in the congregation remain poor.

Here is are a couple of reports on Creflo Dollar


By 2007, he was preaching to a congregation of 30,000 members with $69 million in revenue through gross cash collections. Both his prosperity gospel-style teachings and his lavish lifestyle have been criticized. He owns two Rolls-Royces, a private jet, and three multi-million dollar homes.

Dollar is known for his controversial teachings regarding prosperity theology.He has long been criticized for living a lavish lifestyle. He owns two Rolls-Royces, a private jet, and high-end real estate such as a million-dollar home in Atlanta, a $2.5 million home in Demarest, New Jersey, and a home in Manhattan that he bought for $2.5 million in 2006 and sold for $3.75 million in 2012.Dollar has refused to disclose his salary. For declining to disclose any financial information to independent audit, Creflo Dollar Ministries received a grade of "F" (failing) for financial transparency by the organization Ministry Watch

And....? Have you, has any other member of this forum personally investigated the finances of these people? Has anyone watched to see what these people do with their own money? I think not.....That causes ignorance of facts....No grounds for any kind of judgment.

 

[Brother-Paul]

What I think needs to be clear here is, we are not judging these people, we are just making known public knowledge of their accounts, which shows their net earnings.

Also as stated by others the amount of jets they have and other luxuries. They live in luxury whilst preaching the the gospel and asking for donations, which appear to be a one way system.

We are sharing these things because people have been drawn in to giving, thinking they will be blessed, and the only ones gaining are the pastors, with other peoples money.

We will all have to account for what we do and say in this life.

Important read... Matt 25:42-46

 

[Dave M]

Dave.....You are judging him....."He is a false teacher" You said that.....If you were attacking his message you would have said the message was false teaching....

dear brother you are only seeing what you want to to see not what is actually there, I posted exactly what he said was wrong in the time frame he said it, I judge him not only his false teaching I judge and I stated what he said when he said it

the Rich guy with the big house is who we are supposed to be is what he said

 

[Bendito]

What I think needs to be clear here is, we are not judging these people, we are just making known public knowledge of their accounts, which shows their net earnings.

Also as stated by others the amount of jets they have and other luxuries. They live in luxury whilst preaching the the gospel and asking for donations, which appear to be a one way system.

We are sharing these things because people have been drawn in to giving, thinking they will be blessed, and the only ones gaining are the pastors, with other peoples money.

We will all have to account for what we do and say in this life.

Important read... Matt 25:42-46

You actually have personal knowledge of their financial activities? Really? Or is that knowledge borrowed from other sources?

 

[Bendito]

dear brother you are only seeing what you want to to see not what is actually there, I posted exactly what he said was wrong in the time frame he said it, I judge him not only his false teaching I judge and I stated what he said when he said it

Dave, dear Dave You are only seeing what you want to see..... You posted a clip on Grace in Finance.....What is Grace? Most Christians do not even know that....So how can they say this man is wrong? They don't know.

 

[Dave M]

Dave, dear Dave You are only seeing what you want to see.....

so you agree with KC that we are supposed to ALL be rich and live in big houses???

 

[Brother-Paul]

Look at the reason for the post, it is not judging, it is making known to the public their net worth, yet they continue to ask for more money, what for brother, more jets, more luxuries, worldly treasures.

Like so many, they are preaching what puts people in front of them, equivelent to filing the pews. But they are only preaching what suits them, they are pulling heart strings and using God's Word to do it.

 

[Bendito]

so you agree with KC that we are supposed to ALL be rich and live in big houses???

I hear in his clip that with the blessing of God in our finances, came a strong desire to give. That is scriptural...blessed to be a blessing....At the same time, it is not wrong to live lavishly.....You should get used to living lavishly because you will not be living in a hovel in heaven.
Now.....define Grace....He is talking about Grace in our finances....and here is another question for you Dave....Have you ever been homeless? With a family? What good did that do for you spiritually? NONE! You're preaching out of ignorance my dear friend.

 

[Dave M]

You should get used to living lavishly because you will not be living in a hovel in heaven.

that is false and not from the bible brother, the bible teaches us NOT NOT to like this world as it is temporary and we should not get used to it, Love you brother I correct you with love and respect but the bible tells us we are here a short period of time and not to care for the riches of this world

 

[Bendito]

The reason people criticize the lifestyle of these preachers in not bible. Its simple jealousy....They want that kind of lifestyle themselves and won't believe for it. Copeland is right in this clip. Poverty is a spiritual issue......It's a mindset....Rich people can have the same attitudes.

 

[Dave M]

Have you ever been homeless? With a family? What good did that do for you spiritually

Dear brother the best blessing of my life came when I was close to homeless, having to move back in with my parents as an adult, that is when I found the Lord I thank God for me being alomost homeless

 

[Dave M]

The reason people criticize the lifestyle of these preachers in not bible. Its simple jealousy....They want that kind of lifestyle themselves and won't believe for it.

again wrong wrong wrong, look at all th egreat missionaries that do Gods work they live humble lives, you have been fed lies my brother

 

[Dave M]

You're preaching out of ignorance my dear friend.

brother you are following out of blindness and being led by the flesh your post show it loud and clear I love you but you need much help

 

[Bendito]

again wrong wrong wrong, look at all th egreat missionaries that do Gods work they live humble lives, you have been fed lies my brother

A person, no matter who they are, are where they are because that's where they choose to be. Who are you listening to?