The Rapture

[Bill]

As a believer -- we Should be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen Willingly. And God's Word Should be affecting the way we live.

@lecoope -- those who are left behind after the Church has been raptured up, referring to your post #170 -- those raptured up will be believers. The indwelling Holy Spirit has kept them safely 'saved' until they are with Jesus Christ. But you're talking about those left down here on earth. Non-believers. Either those who have actively rejected Jesus Christ' salvation Or those too young to understand and are growing up during the seven years of tribulation. But Scripture tells us that God will send a great delusion to those who have already rejected. They Won't all of a sudden 'see the truth' and come to Christ. There probably will be those left behind who haven't actively rejected Christ ,they just didn't accept Him, yet. But during the 7 yrs. of tribulation, life is going to be Hard. And those who Do Accept Christ will become martyrs. But those 7 yrs. are mainly for the Jewish population -- God's chosen people who rejected Him and are still alive. They will have a second chance to accept Christ as their Messiah, but it will be hard for them, also.

So -- a person Could die 'tonight' in an accident or be alive when the rapture Does take place. So it Is a good idea to make sure 'now' of our personal Salvation. No one is assured of 'tomorrow'.

A true Jew is not one who has the physical circumcision, but whose heart is circumcised.

We are the Jews of Revelations

 

[Bill]

T

NO matter what your stance on the timing of the rapture (because there is a rapture), the way you live should not be effected one way or another, if the timming of the rapture effects the way you live, you might need to recheck if you are a Christian

its the BIBLE the WORD of GOD we need to read all of it many times over and over including the book of Revelations!!!! .

-----------these people do not appear to be killed they just came out of the great tribulation
Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


___________The people appear to have been killed in the tribulation and possibly at other times in history but definatley in the tribulation,
Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.


I personally dont see how anyone could claim 100% of the timing of the rapture, but on the other hand I dont see how anyone can deny there is going to be a rapture

There is a lot of confusion. Of this i am certain. The Devil has made his way into all churches. There are no churches now that do not have some form of error.

Much teaching has been altered over the years. An example has to do with "who are the Jews" of Rev.

We are the Jews of Rev. Paul tells us this. "A true Jew is one whose heart is circumcised "

If Jesus dwells in your heart, then your heart has been circumcised.

 

[Bill]

[QUOTE="Bill, post: 321193, member: 33283. The ungodly are not going to bother reading the bible..

WOW I hope I am misunderstanding this, because we were all once ungodly yet we now read the bible, you just gave up on all unsaved people with this statement, just like you and I were once unsaved. Please tell me I am not understanding you correctly[/QUOTE]
I never give up . Because all are the potential Children of God. I will give up my life to the very end, reaching out to all who can be.

But there are some who with all the evedence before then, who will never believe. They will say, i am my own god.

 

[Dave M]

WOW I hope I am misunderstanding this, because we were all once ungodly yet we now read the bible, you just gave up on all unsaved people with this statement, just like you and I were once unsaved. Please tell me I am not understanding you correctly

I never give up . Because all are the potential Children of God. I will give up my life to the very end, reaching out to all who can be.

But there are some who with all the evedence before then, who will never believe. They will say, i am my own god.[/QUOTE]


Bill thanks for clearing that up I did not think you were the type to give up on people, Praise be to God

 

[Sue D.]

A true Jew is not one who has the physical circumcision, but whose heart is circumcised.

We are the Jews of Revelations

I'm a Gentile -- not a Jew. I've accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior.

And, speaking of the Jews -- they are God's chosen people. And, yes, there Are two kinds of Jews -- those who chose to follow Old Testament Jewish beliefs and those who are born Jewish. And you are possibly of the belief that the Church is an extension of Israel. Which it is Not. The Church is separate.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes it would be correct to say we are caught up with Jesus upon his return.

It is this nonsense of escaping planet earth before Christ's return i have issues with

There will be no escaping plant Earth for Anyone except maybe in sci-fi movies. There Are those who believe that Mars would be a good place to extend 'our' life because This world is getting more and more messed up. And God's Word Does tell us that in the end -- this world Will be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will be brought down from heaven by God, Himself.

 

[Sue D.]

There is a lot of confusion. Of this i am certain. The Devil has made his way into all churches. There are no churches now that do not have some form of error.

Much teaching has been altered over the years. An example has to do with "who are the Jews" of Rev.

We are the Jews of Rev. Paul tells us this. "A true Jew is one whose heart is circumcised "

If Jesus dwells in your heart, then your heart has been circumcised.

You're right -- there are No churches that do not have some form of error -- because we are all human. But there is one that I know that stays as close to God's Word as possible. Well -- several that I know about.

And, in the New Testament -- the Jewish world wanted to combine salvation by grace With old testament practice of physical circumcision. The Abrahamic covenant was 'sealed' so to speak by circumcision. And a lot of it was for cleanliness for males. And it was done on the 8th day after birth of the child.

God wants to have relationship with 'us' rather than having 'us' just following rules and regulations.

 

[lecoope]

There is confussion on timelines. Ppl keep trying to figure out when all these things will take place.

But i am telling you , untill the Great Day of the Lord is revealed , no one will know with any certainty. And it will show most theories that are preached in todays world to be farlse.

We CAN know what John has revealed to us.

 

[lecoope]

A true Jew is not one who has the physical circumcision, but whose heart is circumcised.

We are the Jews of Revelations

Sorry, Bill, but this is myth: Paul's rapture is for the Gentile Church. The 70th week is for Daniel's people: Jews and Hebrews from other tribes. Yes, they are living in Israel today. Paul's rapture will take all those that are In Christ out before the 70th week begins. Therefore most of Revelation is for THEM, not the church.

 

[Sue D.]

The rapture is for All who have trusted Christ as their personal Savior.
The 70th week is for the Jews who are willing to accept Christ as their Promised Messiah.

All Scripture is for all who are willing to read it. For our knowledge of what is to come. What we read, we can share with others and then, hopefully, 'they' will come to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, also.

 

[Dave M]

so who are those standing before the thrown and when did they get there?? Why are they standing before the throne, and not under the alter like the other one in revelations??

Revelation 7:9-17
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.

 

[lecoope]

The rapture is for All who have trusted Christ as their personal Savior.
The 70th week is for the Jews who are willing to accept Christ as their Promised Messiah.

All Scripture is for all who are willing to read it. For our knowledge of what is to come. What we read, we can share with others and then, hopefully, 'they' will come to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, also.

I agree, the scriptures are for all who will read, but the 70th week is for ISRAEL:

Dan. 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

 

[lecoope]

so who are those standing before the thrown and when did they get there?? Why are they standing before the throne, and not under the alter like the other one in revelations??

Revelation 7:9-17
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.

You can post these two scriptures together, as if they go together, but that would be pulling scripture from its context. That is a no no! They don't go together because they have different contexts. What "great tribulation" are they coming out of? John has not yet started the 70th week in His narrative, MUCH LESS arrived at the second half of the week where Jesus said the days of great tribulation would come.

There is no hint that this great crowed, TOO LARGE TO NUMBER have been slain! The slain during the days of GT will NOT be "too large to number." But the dead in Christ, with those alive in Christ - who are caught up to heaven (John 14 and 1 Thes. 4) will be a HUGE crowd, too large to number. This crowd is the just raptured church. They are very much alive and with their resurrection bodies.

The "great tribulation" they came out of, one by one, is the church age. There have always been martyrs and will be until the new heaven and new earth.

 

[Sue D.]

There has Always been tribulation for believers -- we're warned of that as believers , we will Always endure hardships because of our faith. However, the ' tribulation' they will be coming out of is referring to the 7 yrs. of tribulation after the Church has been removed. And the Great Tribulation is referring to the last 3 1/2 yrs. of the 7 yr period of tribulation.

Doesn't the context in Revelation 7 suggest that this scene is happening in heaven. vs 13.

My understanding has been that during the 7 yrs tribulation time, the 144,000 Jews from every tribe who have been sealed, will be in the 'field' evangelizing the Jews and anyone else who's willing to listen. But primarily the Jewish population.

 

[lecoope]

Sue, I must disagree. John has not yet started the 70th week in chapter 7. He is still in church age - but at the very end of the church age. The 70th week will begin with the 7th seal opened in chapter 8. John does not get to the last half of the week until chapter 12 and after, and it will be later in the last half when the image is set up and people are forced to worship the image or die - or take the mark or die. Those days will not begin until after chapter 14. Therefore to imagine something in chapter 7 has happened in the last half of the week is just pulling something out of context.

 

[lecoope]

By the way, "Edit" and font color, edit, among other things, has disappeared.

 

[Dave M]

so what part of tribulation are the two witnesses in ? when they die there bodies lie in the street for 3.5 days, when they witness they witness for 3.5 years I think, lots of 3.5 stuff going on in tribulation.

when does the beast come out of the water they speak of?? at the end of 3.5 years or the beginning of tribulation?

thanks

 

[Dave M]

You can post these two scriptures together, as if they go together, but that would be pulling scripture from its context. That is a no no! They don't go together because they have different contexts. What "great tribulation" are they coming out of? John has not yet started the 70th week in His narrative, MUCH LESS arrived at the second half of the week where Jesus said the days of great tribulation would come.

There is no hint that this great crowed, TOO LARGE TO NUMBER have been slain! The slain during the days of GT will NOT be "too large to number." But the dead in Christ, with those alive in Christ - who are caught up to heaven (John 14 and 1 Thes. 4) will be a HUGE crowd, too large to number. This crowd is the just raptured church. They are very much alive and with their resurrection bodies.

The "great tribulation" they came out of, one by one, is the church age. There have always been martyrs and will be until the new heaven and new earth.

that was my entire point in posting two scriptures one points to people dying and the other points to people appearing, yet they are both in heaven, my real curiosity is why does it say came they out of the "great" tribulation instead of just the tribulation as my understanding is the "great" tribulation does not occur until after 3.5 years of the regular tribulation, but I agree these people before the throne do not have appeared to be killed like the people under the throne, giving the rapture much more evidence of happening.

 

[Dave M]

If Jesus is coming back in his second coming with ALL of his saints, how do you suppose he is going to do that without first coming to get his saints
before that day?

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

does this mean at a certain point during the tribulation, no one is saved any longer is there a time period referernce this?? such as people are still getting saved up to the first 3.5 years but not after????

 

[Sue D.]

Referring to #195 -- Lecoope -- I've also just noticed a few things have disappeared. And -- the 70th year has not happened yet. That is what the 7 yr tribulation time is about.