The Rapture

[Beresheet]

Sue I appreciate your comments about my post on the rapture. Your are right that only God knows when Christ will return to earth. But He is not here for a rapture. At this time when Christ returns, he is here to see if God’s children have read with understanding God’s word and to put Satan/anti christ in chains and will keep him bound for 1000 years during the millennium where all of Gods children that felled to overcome in these flesh bodies will be taught God’s word for 1000 years and Satan be loosed once again to test God’s children once again at the end of the millennium.

As previously mentioned, anti christ will not be a flesh being or man, but is Satan Himself. When the archangel Michael unchains him in heaven and releases him back on earth to test God’s children to see if they have consumed God’s word. I know the tribulation started out to be a total of seven years but Christ shortened the time. You can not over look that fact Sue. Matthew and Mark both tell us that. Christ shortened the tribulation cause anti christ was so good at deceiving the children that no flesh would be saved.

Sue you are mistaken about when God’s children were in spiritual bodies because your not familiar with the first world age where God first created all His children known as the sons of God. This was pre Genesis 1:2The souls/spirit of the sons of God are the same souls/spirits that are in these flesh bodies of today. God didn’t destroy the sons of God at Satan attempted overthrow. God just removed them from the earth and set up a plan of salvation. Satan did not overthrow anything but he tried to. That attempted overthrow by Satan changed Gods original plans for His children. After the attempted overthrow God set up the plan of salvation. God did not have or did He need a plan of salvation till after Satan’s attempted overthrow.

God putting the sons of God back on earth after Satan’s attempted overthrow in a sinful environment was part of the testing of Gods children. There would not be much of a test if the sinfulness was not around.

I know my not believing in the rapture makes me very unpopular on this site but I just don’t see where it says Jesus is coming to fly us away. I do see in Ezekiel 13:20 where God is against those who hunt the souls to make them fly. A rapture would take away everyones free will to choose. Each individual must be given the opportunity to choose which Christ to follow. We have two super natural entities about to show up on the earth, both are claiming to be Jesus Christ. Are you going to follow the first Christ that comes to earth or the second Christ that comes to earth. That is a choice that everyone that is still alive here on earth in these flesh bodies will have to make. The choice will not be made for you. Having free will you will have to choose to follow the first Christ that comes to earth or you will choose to wait on the second Christ that comes to earth. Either way each individual will have to make that choice on their own. To make the mistake and choose the wrong Christ is failure and one must be taught in the millennium, that one thousand year period where Satan is bound and only the cold hard truth of God’s word is taught.

The Bible verse that seems to assure the rapture is for real is 1 Thess 4:17 to meet the Lord in the air. That is not even the subject here. The subject here is, Paul does want you to be ignorant where ghe dead are, God’s children which have already died in these flesh bodies. The subject here is located at 1 Thess 4:13. This verse to meet the Lord in the air has fooled many. The word air used here has nothing to do with atmosphere, up in the sky or flying away. This word air here means the breath of life body, the soul or spirit. Look this word air up in the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance. You will see it has nothing to do with rapture.

 

[norapture]

The rapture is when Christ is going to come in the air and take up the Church -- all born-again believers -- to be with Him. Every one Else will still be here. And Scripture says that No one -- except God Himself knows when That event will take place.

@ Sue D are you saying no one knows when the rapture will take place?

What about his coming , does anyone know when it will take place?

 

[Sue D.]

@ norapture -- that's what Scripture says that no one -- Except , God Himself -- knows the time of the rapture taking place. And there is the on-going debate about the timing Of the rapture / pre- trib / mid-trib and post-trib. rapture. The Trib = tribulation. There will be a 7 yr period of tribulation in the future And after That time is when Jesus Christ Will come to the earth -- standing on the Mt. Olives. And He will reign , Himself, out of Jerusalem for 1,000 yrs.

So -- there is the question of When the rapture Will take place -- before the trib / mid-way Through or at the end Of. the seven years of tribulation. And midway Through that 7 years, there will be the Great Tribulation.

All we Do know is that it all Will take place. In the future. And That is why each person Needs to be prepared spiritually. Being a born-again believer / having accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior and lord. Because Those believers are the one's Being raptured up and out of this world. I use the term 'born-again' believers because a Lot of people Do believe in God and in Jesus Christ. They believe in their Head, but haven't believed in a Personal way - in their heart. And the Heart belief is what makes them a 'born-again' believer. That is found in John 3. The conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus. Everyone is born physically or we wouldn't be here. It's the being born Again, spiritual birth that's essential.

The rapture is the up-gathering of the born-again believers = the Church. Christ will meet us in the air.

the 2nd coming is when He will actually come back to earth.

 

[norapture]

@ norapture -- that's what Scripture says that no one -- Except , God Himself -- knows the time of the rapture taking place. And there is the on-going debate about the timing Of the rapture / pre- trib / mid-trib and post-trib. rapture. The Trib = tribulation. There will be a 7 yr period of tribulation in the future And after That time is when Jesus Christ Will come to the earth -- standing on the Mt. Olives. And He will reign , Himself, out of Jerusalem for 1,000 yrs.

So -- there is the question of When the rapture Will take place -- before the trib / mid-way Through or at the end Of. the seven years of tribulation. And midway Through that 7 years, there will be the Great Tribulation.

All we Do know is that it all Will take place. In the future. And That is why each person Needs to be prepared spiritually. Being a born-again believer / having accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior and lord. Because Those believers are the one's Being raptured up and out of this world. I use the term 'born-again' believers because a Lot of people Do believe in God and in Jesus Christ. They believe in their Head, but haven't believed in a Personal way - in their heart. And the Heart belief is what makes them a 'born-again' believer. That is found in John 3. The conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus. Everyone is born physically or we wouldn't be here. It's the being born Again, spiritual birth that's essential.

The rapture is the up-gathering of the born-again believers = the Church. Christ will meet us in the air.

the 2nd coming is when He will actually come back to earth.

@ Sue D can you post where you read that no one knows the day or hour of the rapture?

And what about his 2nd coming will any one know the day or hour ?

 

[Sue D.]

@norapture -- the passage is Matthew 24:36 -- as for the 2nd coming -- that is talked about in Daniel 7 and 8 or so. World events leading up to His 2nd coming. That event is different from the rapture.

 

[norapture]

@norapture -- the passage is Matthew 24:36 -- as for the 2nd coming -- that is talked about in Daniel 7 and 8 or so. World events leading up to His 2nd coming. That event is different from the rapture.

@ Sue D when you read Matthew 24, you do understand that Jesus is talking about his 2nd coming , and if you look at verse 29 and 30 he plainly says it is after the tribulation, that the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven then , talking about after the tribulation, please go and read Matthew 24 , Mark 13 and also Luke 21 slowly and let it ponder in your heart what Jesus is talking about .

 

[Sue D.]

@norapture -- Matthew 24 is a very thought-provoking chapter --. And it's Also true that That verse applies to Both happenings.

Look closer at Mark 13 : 32 "no one knows about the day or hour , not even the angels in heaven , nor the Son, but only the Father."

The events in Luke 21 -- we see lots of this happening now in various countries -- it won't get any better. And that's why there's a question with some as to the timing of the rapture. Portions of Rev. tell about even Worse activities from the heavens coming down on earth.

But -- we Still don't know an exact day or hour and that's what you asked about.

Lots of us want to know Exactly -- so we can plan ahead? Wait until the last minute? No one Likes being kept in suspense. It goes against our nature. But God is in charge.

Yes, by all means "let it ponder in your heart what Jesus is talking about". Are 'we' spiritually ready to be in 'eternity' Now? It Could happen that 'we' get hit by a drunk driver or by someone running a red light -- tomorrow.

 

[norapture]

@norapture -- Matthew 24 is a very thought-provoking chapter --. And it's Also true that That verse applies to Both happenings.

Look closer at Mark 13 : 32 "no one knows about the day or hour , not even the angels in heaven , nor the Son, but only the Father."

The events in Luke 21 -- we see lots of this happening now in various countries -- it won't get any better. And that's why there's a question with some as to the timing of the rapture. Portions of Rev. tell about even Worse activities from the heavens coming down on earth.

But -- we Still don't know an exact day or hour and that's what you asked about.

Lots of us want to know Exactly -- so we can plan ahead? Wait until the last minute? No one Likes being kept in suspense. It goes against our nature. But God is in charge.

Yes, by all means "let it ponder in your heart what Jesus is talking about". Are 'we' spiritually ready to be in 'eternity' Now? It Could happen that 'we' get hit by a drunk driver or by someone running a red light -- tomorrow.

@ Sue all these chapters are talking about is Jesus's coming , not no rapture, but what will happen before he returns , and what will happen when he returns .

Don't get me wrong I do believe we that are a living and remain to his coming will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
I know why most people say rapture meaning caught up , but even so it's not a event , the event is the coming of the Lord , being caught up is what happens at the event ( coming of the Lord )
See Jesus never said he was coming back before the tribulation but after,
So people began to say, he is coming back in stages, like oh he is coming for the bride before the tribulation, and then he is coming back for the tribulation saints at the end, And oh the resurrection it happens in stages to like before the tribulation, then again for the tribulation saints at the end,
well lets just add whatever we need to to fit our believe.
Paul said at the last Trump we shall not ALL sleep but we All shall be changed, so if ALL believers are change who is left but unbelievers, then the wrath will happen, all saints will be standing on a sea of glass with the Lord when he pours out his wrath ( Revelations 15 verse 1&2 )

Jesus said let the wheat and tares grow together unto the end , then he would separate them . Question
Unto the end of what ?

 

[Bendito]

@norapture -- Matthew 24 is a very thought-provoking chapter --. And it's Also true that That verse applies to Both happenings.

Look closer at Mark 13 : 32 "no one knows about the day or hour , not even the angels in heaven , nor the Son, but only the Father."

The events in Luke 21 -- we see lots of this happening now in various countries -- it won't get any better. And that's why there's a question with some as to the timing of the rapture. Portions of Rev. tell about even Worse activities from the heavens coming down on earth.

But -- we Still don't know an exact day or hour and that's what you asked about.

Lots of us want to know Exactly -- so we can plan ahead? Wait until the last minute? No one Likes being kept in suspense. It goes against our nature. But God is in charge.

Yes, by all means "let it ponder in your heart what Jesus is talking about". Are 'we' spiritually ready to be in 'eternity' Now? It Could happen that 'we' get hit by a drunk driver or by someone running a red light -- tomorrow.

Nobody knows the time or the hour of the rapture, it's true....but when the rapture happens you can almost pinpoint the time of His return.....to within a day or two.

 

[Bendito]

@ Sue all these chapters are talking about is Jesus's coming , not no rapture, but what will happen before he returns , and what will happen when he returns .

Don't get me wrong I do believe we that are a living and remain to his coming will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
I know why most people say rapture meaning caught up , but even so it's not a event , the event is the coming of the Lord , being caught up is what happens at the event ( coming of the Lord )
See Jesus never said he was coming back before the tribulation but after,
So people began to say, he is coming back in stages, like oh he is coming for the bride before the tribulation, and then he is coming back for the tribulation saints at the end, And oh the resurrection it happens in stages to like before the tribulation, then again for the tribulation saints at the end,
well lets just add whatever we need to to fit our believe.
Paul said at the last Trump we shall not ALL sleep but we All shall be changed, so if ALL believers are change who is left but unbelievers, then the wrath will happen, all saints will be standing on a sea of glass with the Lord when he pours out his wrath ( Revelations 15 verse 1&2 )

Jesus said let the wheat and tares grow together unto the end , then he would separate them . Question
Unto the end of what ?

Wow! So you're saying....Jesus returns, His feet touch the Earth and you will go flying into the air to meet Him, but He's already on the ground....Very interesting.

 

[norapture]

Nobody knows the time or the hour of the rapture, it's true....but when the rapture happens you can almost pinpoint the time of His return.....to within a day or two.

@Bendito so you disagree with Jesus when he says no one knows when he is coming back, because in scripture he is talking about his coming, that it will be after the tribulation and nobody knows the day or hour.
But I will say this show me one scripture, where Jesus says himself
that he is coming back before the tribulation.

 

[norapture]

Wow! So you're saying....Jesus returns, His feet touch the Earth and you will go flying into the air to meet Him, but He's already on the ground....Very interesting.

I guess you didn't take time to read what I said , cause I said we will be caught up to meet him in the air, then we will be with him for evermore even when his feet tough the ground , unless you are saying we won't be with him when his feet tough the ground.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito so you disagree with Jesus when he says no one knows when he is coming back, because in scripture he is talking about his coming, that it will be after the tribulation and nobody knows the day or hour.
But I will say this show me one scripture, where Jesus says himself
that he is coming back before the tribulation.

It's painfully obvious that you did NOT read what I wrote.....Try this....Listen (read) not with the intent of replying, read instead with the intent of understanding...

What did I say....No man can know the day nor the hour.....See above? You look silly when you do that. But you can easily deduce the time of His return. Just to help you catch on....The rapture is NOT the second coming.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito so you disagree with Jesus when he says no one knows when he is coming back, because in scripture he is talking about his coming, that it will be after the tribulation and nobody knows the day or hour.
But I will say this show me one scripture, where Jesus says himself
that he is coming back before the tribulation.

No....You do your own search of the Word....The Bible is full of that information...Look it up. Your purpose here is not to learn but to prove me wrong and you right...But this is NOT a contest.

 

[Bendito]

I guess you didn't take time to read what I said , cause I said we will be caught up to meet him in the air, then we will be with him for evermore even when his feet tough the ground , unless you are saying we won't be with him when his feet tough the ground.

Yup...You really do need to get into the Word!

 

[norapture]

It's painfully obvious that you did NOT read what I wrote.....Try this....Listen (read) not with the intent of replying, read instead with the intent of understanding...

What did I say....No man can know the day nor the hour.....See above? You look silly when you do that. But you can easily deduce the time of His return. Just to help you catch on....The rapture is NOT the second coming.

Ok what is the rapture ? If it's not the coming of the Lord ,

 

[norapture]

Yup...You really do need to get into the Word!

So are you saying we won't be with him when his feet tough the ground?

 

[Bendito]

Ok what is the rapture ? If it's not the coming of the Lord ,

Why do I feel that you are still challenging instead of asking for an answer? The Rapture, the catching up of the Bride is where Jesus comes into the atmosphere, His feet do NOT touch the ground...He comes with a shout, a trumpet blast (Not one of the seven in Revelation, and the voice of an archangel....The bride will meet Him in the air, but His feet do not touch the ground until He returns seven years later The rapture....The tribulation period....The second coming.

 

[Bendito]

So are you saying we won't be with him when his feet tough the ground?

The Bride will be with Him....Not necessarily all "Christians" Just the Bride

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- the Bride = the Church = all born-again believers. And That means that this 'group' Will be caught up to be with Jesus Christ.