The Rapture

[JesusIs4Me]

The Antichrist makes a "covenant" with Israel at the very beginning of the tribulation period, which is after the rapture of the Church. This "covenant" sets the beginning of the seven year tribulation.

Dan 9:27 And he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many for one week [seven years]. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and upon the wing or pinnacle of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate, until the full determined end is poured out on the desolator.

In then in the middle of this seven year period the Antichrist breaks his promise which starts the "great tribulation."

I understand your point of view but in light of the reality of the mark of the beast system that will be demanded for all to take in order to buy and sell to survive in this new world order, Christians will be dying from the onset of what I call the hour of temptations that shall try all upon the earth for which I deem it as the great tribulation period. Mid-way the Jews are going to be attacked, but that reference is only for signifying when that man of sin will be revealed; it doesn't really say that is when the great tribulation starts. I just believe that Jesus refer to that "time" when the man of sin is revealed as that time being of the great tribulation period. Christians dying before that man of sin is revealed would be a great tribulation to them.

Of course, I have no reference to specifically prove how I apply the great tribulation to start other than by why I see it as applying towards the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth as the beast will wage war on the saints at the onset of the great tribulation where upon midway, the Jews will be joining Christians as targets as the beast will seek to wipe them out also by then.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Alan....The rapture has everything to do with salvation...He saves us from sin and the reprecussions of it.

The rapture is not about salvation in Jesus Christ, but about running that race in being His disciples to be received by the Bridegroom when He comes so as to avoid being excommunicated from the Marriage Supper table for being in unrepentant iniquity. We have to run as saved believers because if we run to obtain salvation, then we are in iniquity of denying Him that we are saved by Him as our Saviour because we are saved by simply believing in Him.

Discipleship has to be separate from salvation, otherwise no one can know that they are saved or when they are saved if they run that race.to obtain salvation. It is important to run that race by faith in the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so we can be accepted by Him as vessels unto honor in His House. Those in unrepentant iniquity will become castaways and receive the damnation in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House. This is why the call to depart from iniquity is still being given even to former believers because He still abides in them and so if they wish to be receive as a vessel unto honor in His House, they are to be called to go to Jesus for the answers they need to repent to abide in Him again before the Bridegroom comes. Otherwise, they will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not looking to Him for help in discerning and departing from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:13 & 2 Timothy 2:18-21

So the only thing the rapture is about in regards to being saved from something... is the fiery judgment that is coming on the earth. Luke 12:40-49 & Luke 17:26-37 & 2 Peter 3:3-14

 

[Curtis]

I understand your point of view but in light of the reality of the mark of the beast system that will be demanded for all to take in order to buy and sell to survive in this new world order, Christians will be dying from the onset of what I call the hour of temptations that shall try all upon the earth for which I deem it as the great tribulation period. Mid-way the Jews are going to be attacked, but that reference is only for signifying when that man of sin will be revealed; it doesn't really say that is when the great tribulation starts. I just believe that Jesus refer to that "time" when the man of sin is revealed as that time being of the great tribulation period. Christians dying before that man of sin is revealed would be a great tribulation to them.

Of course, I have no reference to specifically prove how I apply the great tribulation to start other than by why I see it as applying towards the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth as the beast will wage war on the saints at the onset of the great tribulation where upon midway, the Jews will be joining Christians as targets as the beast will seek to wipe them out also by then.

We already know that the Antichrist can not be revealed to the world until the "restrainer" is taken out of the way, and then he is revealed. Jesus gave his Church ALL power and authority over the devil who is the restrainer that must be taken out of the way first. Once that is done, the Antichrist can be revealed who will make a "covenant" with Israel, and that covenant will begin the start of the seven year tribulation period as foretold in (Dan 9:27)

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 7:4; And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Rev 7:5; from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
Rev 7:6; from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
Rev 7:7; from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
Rev 7:8; from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

The 144,000 are Jews, not Gentiles. 12,000 from each tribe. These aren't the only people going to heaven (or the New Jerusalem depending on what you consider heaven to be).
Notice that Dan and Ephraim are not in the list. (That's another story).

We know because the very next verse says...

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

 

[Curtis]

the mark of the beast system that will be demanded for all to take in order to buy and sell to survive in this new world order,

The mark of the beast happens around half way through the 7 year tribulation period.(Revelation 13:16–18)

 

[JesusIs4Me]

We already know that the Antichrist can not be revealed to the world until the "restrainer" is taken out of the way, and then he is revealed. Jesus gave his Church ALL power and authority over the devil who is the restrainer that must be taken out of the way first. Once that is done, the Antichrist can be revealed who will make a "covenant" with Israel, and that covenant will begin the start of the seven year tribulation period as foretold in (Dan 9:27)

That does not make sense for applying the restrainer to be about the revelation of that man of sin.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That is why I believe Paul was talking about two events whereby in verse 6 is about the time of the great tribulation and verse 7 is about our time in how the iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith was to happen first as it was happening even in Paul's early days. The Lord appearing is to judge His House first because of that falling away from the faith and then as the King of kings at the end of the great tribulation, He will deal with that man of sin.

You may not agree with how I am reading that verse, let alone that entire chapter as Paul goes into the next chapter talking about those falling away from the faith as still being brothers that are to be admonished by withdrawing from them, but that is my understanding of His words.

One thing I learned from you though that the order given out to build the third temple that would be the beginning of the great tribulation in my point of view as taught by someone else, is wrong, because that verse 25 of Daniel 9th chapter was only referring to the times before that 70th week as to when Jesus had come. I believe when the 3 angels sets up the hour of the temptation that shall try all upon the earth will be the great tribulation period whereby Christians, will be slaughtered from the onset before the Jews join them in that great tribulation halfway thru it. Not sure how the 144,000 witnesses that were Jews that become Christians fit in during that persecution period, but according to Zechariah 12th chapter, obviously not all Jews were aware that Jesus Christ was and is their Messiah until they see Him Whom they had pierced and mourn for Him for what they had done. Also, there will be other new believers after the pre great rapture before they get killed in that calamity of fire in the western hemisphere whereby the third of the earth will be burned up. Pretty sure the 144,000 Jewish Christian believers will be on the 2/3 of the earth in serving as witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation period.

Anyway, we all know in part and prophesy in part and so this is one issue that will always be in question among Christians, but the important message of the pre great trib rapture issue is to be abiding in Him all the time as in right now by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin in living a life of repentance as His disciples so that we may be accepted by Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Many naysayers say pre tribbers are doing harm to the body of Christ but Jesus's warnings to believers was not for believers of some future date but warning His disciples now to be ready or else be cut off to have their portions with the unbelievers as they are still His servants as they receive stripes per the knowledge of not being ready for why they will get left behind for. Luke 12:40-49

So in actuality, post tribbers are giving a false testimony to when Christ will return as the Bridegroom to have believers look for the signs of how bad it will be at the end of the great tribulation when Christ returns as King of kings to set foot on earth to do battle with the world's armies marching against Jerusalem. Many believers will take that sign or lack thereof of that world's armies marching against Jerusalem as a temptation to not abide in Him or think about Jesus so they can live their lives abd only be concern by the cares of this life instead of looking to Him for help daily to be ready to go as well as for abiding in Him. Luke 14:15-33 & Luke 21:33-36

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The mark of the beast happens around half way through the 7 year tribulation period.(Revelation 13:16–18)

Doesn't say when it happens, but the 3 angels setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all on the earth in Revelation 14:6-13 has the mark of the beast initiated as warned by the 3rd angel after the fiery calamity that destroys one third of the earth heralded by the second angel.

Think about it. When one third of the earth is burned by fire, as Jesus warned that a calamity would occur immediately after the rapture in destroying those that remain on that earth where a third will be burned as Revelation testify of, that will serve as the catalyst for the new world order for the rest of the 2/3 of the world because the world's economy will be in chaos as the world's resources just took a major hit. That is why USA is not in prophesy regarding the world's armies marching against Jerusalem. The entire western hemisphere will be destroyed as no merchant ships will come anywhere near the shores of North, Latin, or South America.

So with a major hit like that to the world's resources comes the necessity for the new world order in pooling resources and having the mark of the beast system so that all that are part of this new world order gets their fair share. So that is why the beats makes all rich and poor take the mark in order to survive in the aftermath of the fall of Babylon USA.

Most of Jesus's warning to be ready was given at a time when there is no oppression to survive in that new world order, where the temptation to be like Lot's wife to love this life so much that Christians would be tempted to not want to leave it when the Bridegroom appears to take them to the King's Supper ( Luke 14:15-33 & Luke 21:33-36 ) can be a snare to Christians living in the times that we are living in.

Jesus's warning to the churches in Revelation is to avoid the great tribulation as specified in the warning to the church at Thyatira should be noted because if they do not repent, they will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation whereby the exhortation to the church at Philadelphia is promised to be kept from the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth; hence the pre great trib rapture.

The warning to the church at Thyatira is probably the closest reference to when the great tribulation started since unrepentant saved believers will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[Curtis]

The "mystery of "lawlessness" has been at work since the fall of man. Jesus told his disciples that he was the "light of the world", and then tells his disciples that "they were the light of the world." (John 8:12)(Matt 5:14) No amount of darkness can ever over power light. The only way darkness can come in is if you take the light out of the world. The Church is the light unto this world which holds back (restrains) "lawlessness" from running totally rampart in this world. Once the Church is gone darkness will take over.

2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed,

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The "mystery of "lawlessness" has been at work since the fall of man. Jesus told his disciples that he was the "light of the world", and then tells his disciples that "they were the light of the world." (John 8:12)(Matt 5:14) No amount of darkness can ever over power light. The only way darkness can come in is if you take the light out of the world. The Church is the light unto this world which holds back (restrains) "lawlessness" from running totally rampart in this world. Once the Church is gone darkness will take over.

2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed,

I prefer the KJV as holding to the true meaning of His words.

In context of that chapter and the 3rd chapter, Paul was addressing that specific falling away from the faith that was to happen first as that iniquity was already at work in the churches in his days and that iniquity is about those who preach to saved believer that they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues without interpretation and other signs of confusion in the flesh. That is why God will permit to suffer that strong delusion when they believe that lie as that damnation is to become castaways and thus received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House at the end of the great tribulation... unless they repent of that tongue for private use and stop chasing after a continual filling of those seducing spirits for a sign that causes them to fall down or experience other loss of self control.

That was why Paul reminded believers in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 about when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit which was at the calling of the gospel when they had first believed in Him to be saved. Then Paul went on to address those whom have fallen away from the faith as wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as those in confusion are in falling down in those "movement of the ' spirit ' " are in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 BUT Paul points out that they are not to be treated as the enemy, but admonished them as brothers still by withdrawing from having company with them in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15.

So Paul is talking about 2 things; as in 2 events... the falling away from the faith which is to happen first and THEN that man of sin will be revealed after the Lord deals with the House of God first BECAUSE of that falling away from the faith.

Jesus is not going to deal with that man of sin right away when he is revealed, but He will deal with him at the end of the great tribulation and so the falling away of the faith is not going to be dealt with at the end of the great tribulation, but before because He will judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture event for why saved believers are "disqualified" because of that iniquity ( some will be denied because of other iniquities ) as that iniquity which denies Him, they will be denied by Him unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes to avoid becoming castaways and thus damned as vessels unto honor in His House... that means they miss out being received as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

You may be set in what you have been taught but you are overlooking Paul's reminder to those that have not gone astray by that iniquity of when they had received the Holy Spirit at the calling of the gospel when they had first believed and have gotten saved in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 and how He addresses those in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 that have gone astray as still brothers, but we are to withdraw from them and have no company with them until they repent.

 

[Curtis]

I prefer the KJV as holding to the true meaning of His words.

In context of that chapter and the 3rd chapter, Paul was addressing that specific falling away from the faith that was to happen first as that iniquity was already at work in the churches in his days and that iniquity is about those who preach to saved believer that they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues without interpretation and other signs of confusion in the flesh. That is why God will permit to suffer that strong delusion when they believe that lie as that damnation is to become castaways and thus received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House at the end of the great tribulation... unless they repent of that tongue for private use and stop chasing after a continual filling of those seducing spirits for a sign that causes them to fall down or experience other loss of self control.

That was why Paul reminded believers in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 about when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit which was at the calling of the gospel when they had first believed in Him to be saved. Then Paul went on to address those whom have fallen away from the faith as wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as those in confusion are in falling down in those "movement of the ' spirit ' " are in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 BUT Paul points out that they are not to be treated as the enemy, but admonished them as brothers still by withdrawing from having company with them in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15.

So Paul is talking about 2 things; as in 2 events... the falling away from the faith which is to happen first and THEN that man of sin will be revealed after the Lord deals with the House of God first BECAUSE of that falling away from the faith.

Jesus is not going to deal with that man of sin right away when he is revealed, but He will deal with him at the end of the great tribulation and so the falling away of the faith is not going to be dealt with at the end of the great tribulation, but before because He will judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture event for why saved believers are "disqualified" because of that iniquity ( some will be denied because of other iniquities ) as that iniquity which denies Him, they will be denied by Him unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes to avoid becoming castaways and thus damned as vessels unto honor in His House... that means they miss out being received as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

You may be set in what you have been taught but you are overlooking Paul's reminder to those that have not gone astray by that iniquity of when they had received the Holy Spirit at the calling of the gospel when they had first believed and have gotten saved in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 and how He addresses those in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 that have gone astray as still brothers, but we are to withdraw from them and have no company with them until they repent.

You are not getting the fact that Paul was writing to the Church about two separate events.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him.

The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is about Jesus's second coming to the earth to destroy the Antichrist. Then he tells them that day (His second coming, not rapture) will NOT happen until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed. Someone convinced them they had missed the rapture, and they were about to go through the tribulation.

The second thing Paul told them was about the "our gathering together unto him" referring to the Church being raptured, NOT Jesus's second coming.
The rapture will happen before the revealing of the Antichrist, which is by the removing of the "restrainer" who is the Church so that the man of sin can be revealed.

There have been millions of people in the Church that have, and are still falling away from the faith. Read the parable of the sower, and you will find out why that happens. The falling away are those who have never been saved yet they are apart of the Church, but only in flesh, not in spirit.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

These are the "falling away" ones. They were never saved at any time yet they were in the Church!! Because they never received the salvation of the truth that they could be saved, so God gave them a strong delusion to believe a lie.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

A person is either in Christ or Not in Christ.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

You are not getting the fact that Paul was writing to the Church about two separate events.

I do get that, but I see it differently from how you are reading it.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him.

The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is about Jesus's second coming to the earth to destroy the Antichrist. Then he tells them that day (His second coming, not rapture) will NOT happen until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed. Someone convinced them they had missed the rapture, and they were about to go through the tribulation.

On the contrary, since you acknowledge that he is talking about 2 events, then the falling away from the faith is to happen first for which the Lord by His appearing as the Bridegroom will deal with and THEN the other event which will happen after the rapture & midway in the great tribulation of that man of sin being revealed.

The second thing Paul told them was about the "our gathering together unto him" referring to the Church being raptured, NOT Jesus's second coming.
The rapture will happen before the revealing of the Antichrist, which is by the removing of the "restrainer" who is the Church so that the man of sin can be revealed.

The man of sin will be revealed when he enters the Holy of Holies in the third Temple and declares himself to be "god". The Church has nothing to do with keeping the devil in his place or hidden.

Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 and see that traditions taught of us as to when we had received the promise of the Spirit was at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed in Him. That was the line of discernment to see the iniquity that was already at work in Paul's day in misleading believers away from the faith in Jesus Christ in believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation... and again and again and again after signs of confusion.

That was in reproof of those falling away from the faith mentioned in the previous verses as being damned because they love not the truth that we had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel whereby they have gone astray in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils; if you know about "slain in the spirit" , "holy laughter movement" , Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessing, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, and even the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, then that is the falling away from the faith Paul was talking about where saved believer believed the lie that they can receive the Holy spirit apart from salvation. See? That is happening now.

There have been millions of people in the Church that have, and are still falling away from the faith. Read the parable of the sower, and you will find out why that happens. The falling away are those who have never been saved yet they are apart of the Church, but only in flesh, not in spirit.

The ones that the seeds were gobbled up are the unbelievers that did not receive the seed of Christ to be saved. All others are describing how not every saved believer will bear fruit as His disciple, but the one that does are His disciples. Only the chosen that are His disciples as found abiding in Him will be received as vessels unto honor in His House at the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

These are the "falling away" ones. They were never saved at any time yet they were in the Church!! Because they never received the salvation of the truth that they could be saved, so God gave them a strong delusion to believe a lie.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

A person is either in Christ or Not in Christ.

A saved believer can be found not abiding in Christ as even former believers are to be called to depart from iniquity so they can be received as vessels unto honor in His House; see 2 Timothy 2:18-21 . If they purge themselves of iniquity, they are what? Vessels unto honor. If they do not depart from iniquity, they are what? Vessels unto dishonor. Where are the vessels unto dishonor? Still in His House. If you look at the prodigal son in how he gave up his first inheritance ( vessel unto honor & crowns ) for wild living, he can never get it back, but he is still son. That is the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name ( John 1:12-13 ) That is why they are still in His House.

Each believer will be judged by what they have placed on that foundation which was laid by Christ Jesus. ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) In that day ( 1 Corinthians 3:13 ) which is the pre great trib rapture event when God judges His House ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV ), believers will be judged by their works on that foundation and if there be any work of iniquity still on that foundation when the Bridegroom comes, they shall be left behind as castaways to be "damned" as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not looking to Him for help in discerning as well as departing from iniquity.

So the call to depart from iniquity by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin is how a saved believer is to love by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in helping us to follow Him as His disciples. That call is to be given even to former believers because He still resides in them ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ) Hopefully, the Lord will help you to understand why I believe what I do, even if you still disagree with it, but I can hope in Him to cause the increase for you to agree with the actual meaning of His words to be on this issue.

 

[Curtis]

The man of sin will be revealed when he enters the Holy of Holies in the third Temple and declares himself to be "god".

How is he going to do that when the Antichrist must first make a covenant with Israel before he enters the temple which happens to be the start of the seven year tribulation period? In the middle of the start of this covenant (3.5 years) Antichrist will enter the temple and proclaim himself to be God. (Dan 9:27)(Matt 24:15)

 

[JesusIs4Me]

How is he going to do that when the Antichrist must first make a covenant with Israel before he enters the temple which happens to be the start of the seven year tribulation period?

But nobody will know who the antichrist, that man of sin actually is, when he first make a covenant with Israel. Maybe there will be more than one people involved? Once the third temple is built and sometime halfway thru that time of peace for the Jews, that man of sin will reveal himself for when the Jews are to run for it.

 

[Curtis]

But nobody will know who the antichrist, that man of sin actually is,

The Church will be long gone before that happens. Everyone will be deceived into thinking peace and safely, and then sudden destruction will come. It makes no difference if anyone will know who the Antichrist is, but it will be the start of seven year tribulation period as spoken in (Dan 9:27).

 

[Sue D.]

The Antichrist is going to be 'revealed' mid-way through the 7 yrs. There will be a man in charge who everyone will think is a great leader and all of a sudden he will turn on everyone.

But, as God's Word tells us -- the rapture will come 'in a twinkling of an eye' -- a trump will sound and then the dead in Christ first and then everyone else who is a born-again believer will be up and out. And we are Not to be trying to figure out dates for it. Scripture tells us that world events will gradually build up to....... liking it to labor pains in a woman. Some labors are quick and some are long and drawn out. But 'we' are to be prepared in our every day lives. Be Spiritually ready for 'that day'. Be concerned enough to be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with whomever is willing to listen.

 

[lecoope]

I find it absolutely amazing that an event mentioned and demonstrated throughout the bible can be simply 'thrown out as impossible; unlikely; mythical; or otherwise. As I see it, one either believes the bible in its entirety or he believes none of it. Truely! If God lies concerning a catching up of His saints, how can you believe Him in anything else? How can you believe He forgives sin? How can you believe He healed us? As in all things, He either speaks the truth or He lies. Make up your mind, and go for it.

Readers, pay close attention to this post: it is TRUTH!

 

[lecoope]

While I know that nothing is impossible with God. However, I still have great diffiuculty in believing in the Rapture? The logistics of it make no sense and it is not clear in the Bible if such an event will ever trully happen!

The Rapture really has nothing to do with the Gospel of Salvation, through the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know my belief or non-belef in the Rapture will not alter the truth about it.

Nevertheless I would still like to dicuss it with the forum

Alan

The main purpose of the rapture is for God to remove His saints from the earth while or during the time He will pour out His wrath on a world that will not repent. He WILL NOT set any appointments for us with His wrath!

 

[Sue D.]

@ Alan McDougall -- the rapture has Everything to do with the Gospel of Salvation. It's the Church / born-again believers/ who will be raptured up and out of this world. And salvation is what makes a person a born-again believer.

There are passages that say 'in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye' - the dead in Christ will rise 1st and then those alive will follow to meet Jesus Christ in the air. And the examples of two will be in a field or in a bed, one will be taken and the other left.

That has been confused with the second coming of Jesus Christ. He Will be here on earth for a 1,000 yr earthly reign. He will actually stand on the Mt. of Olives when He does return.

So -- two different events in future history.

 

[Dave M]

He WILL NOT set any appointments for us with His wrath!

Matthew 24:22
"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

sure sounds like the elect are going to go through some wrath to me in this verse above

 

[Bendito]

Matthew 24:22
"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

sure sounds like the elect are going to go through some wrath to me in this verse above

Look at the ten virgins....They were all to go in to the wedding feast...But some were not ready and missed it...Only those who were ready got to go in. The same with the rapture...The bride that is caught up is those who are ready. Christians who are ready....The Christians who are not ready get to miss the rapture and have to wait for Jesus to gather them together at His second coming. They will go through the tribulation.
Now...Being born again does not make you ready...else why does the Word tell us to make ourselves ready...

Revelation 19:7
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Matthew 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Luke 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.