The Rapture
- Thread starter Alan McDougall
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Are you Rightly dividing the word?
There is no SECRET RAPTURE of the church before the 2nd coming of CHRIST.
There are no scriptures that support that!
The Pre-Trib Rapture And Left Behind teachings are False Doctrines!
Gathering scriptures to post, will be back soon!
There is no SECRET RAPTURE of the church before the 2nd coming of CHRIST.
There are no scriptures that support that!
The Pre-Trib Rapture And Left Behind teachings are False Doctrines!
Gathering scriptures to post, will be back soon!
Dave M
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that is certainly one point of view that could be drawn from that verse thanks for sharing it, I have often considered it as plausible.
Curtis
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If Jesus is coming back in his second coming with ALL of his saints, how do you suppose he is going to do that without first coming to get his saints
before that day?
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Yes, every person Does need to be ready for Christ to come and rapture us up and out of here. Being ready Spiritually -- are we sure of our salvation?! Actually -- a person could die in a car wreck 'today' and be in eternity. Are 'we' ready for That?
We Can be 'ready' by making sure of our personal salvation -- Now. Accept Jesus Christ as 'your' personal 'Savior'. Now.
A Christian Is a Christ-follower. Make sure 'you're' not following with only a head- knowledge. It needs to be heart belief as Romans 10; 9 - 10 says. For with the heart man believes and with the mouth confession is made.
IF being born-again does Not make a person 'ready' what Would? Being born-again means that a person has been born Physically and Then Spiritually. When we believe in our hearts -- talk to God about it, Thanking Him For His gift of salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us -- a peacefulness in our hearts is There. He's been 'there' for me since Jr. high. I know exactly when and where.
I usually use the term 'born-again believer' because a person can use the term Christian to mean anything from going to church at Christmas and Easter only to believing in their heart and being in church worshiping God every week or as much as is possible in their particular situation. A born-again believer will have a desire to share Christ with others. They will show a love to others. Rather than not caring or being mean-hearted.
And no one is Required to worship every week. or share Christ with others as opportunity arises. But a believer Should have the desire To.
Responding to Lacawar -- the rapture of the church Won't be secret. A trump will sound and people Will disappear. It Will happen with no warning and will happen quickly, but certainly Not Secretly. It Has been speculated, that by the time the rapture Does take place, there will be so few believers in the world, that their disappearance will be easily explained.
There will be people accepting Christ as Savior during the tribulation. Those 7 years are for the previously non-believing Jews to accept Christ as their promised Messiah. Revelation mentions that the 144,000 sealed Jews will be evangelizing and multitudes will accept Christ.
The purpose for the 2nd coming is for Christ's reign on earth for 1,000 yrs. The saints will be reigning with Him. But we're not told How. And apparently there Will be people accepting Christ during Those 1,000 yrs. Satan will be locked up and not be an adversary.
It's also been said that accepting Jesus Christ as Savior during the tribulation will probably mean certain death. And there will be the 666 factor. Those Not accepting that on their hand or forehead won't be able to buy or sell -- believers who Do accept the 666 will receive God's severe judgement.
But, the key element is to make sure of your personal salvation. Now.
We Can be 'ready' by making sure of our personal salvation -- Now. Accept Jesus Christ as 'your' personal 'Savior'. Now.
A Christian Is a Christ-follower. Make sure 'you're' not following with only a head- knowledge. It needs to be heart belief as Romans 10; 9 - 10 says. For with the heart man believes and with the mouth confession is made.
IF being born-again does Not make a person 'ready' what Would? Being born-again means that a person has been born Physically and Then Spiritually. When we believe in our hearts -- talk to God about it, Thanking Him For His gift of salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us -- a peacefulness in our hearts is There. He's been 'there' for me since Jr. high. I know exactly when and where.
I usually use the term 'born-again believer' because a person can use the term Christian to mean anything from going to church at Christmas and Easter only to believing in their heart and being in church worshiping God every week or as much as is possible in their particular situation. A born-again believer will have a desire to share Christ with others. They will show a love to others. Rather than not caring or being mean-hearted.
And no one is Required to worship every week. or share Christ with others as opportunity arises. But a believer Should have the desire To.
Responding to Lacawar -- the rapture of the church Won't be secret. A trump will sound and people Will disappear. It Will happen with no warning and will happen quickly, but certainly Not Secretly. It Has been speculated, that by the time the rapture Does take place, there will be so few believers in the world, that their disappearance will be easily explained.
There will be people accepting Christ as Savior during the tribulation. Those 7 years are for the previously non-believing Jews to accept Christ as their promised Messiah. Revelation mentions that the 144,000 sealed Jews will be evangelizing and multitudes will accept Christ.
The purpose for the 2nd coming is for Christ's reign on earth for 1,000 yrs. The saints will be reigning with Him. But we're not told How. And apparently there Will be people accepting Christ during Those 1,000 yrs. Satan will be locked up and not be an adversary.
It's also been said that accepting Jesus Christ as Savior during the tribulation will probably mean certain death. And there will be the 666 factor. Those Not accepting that on their hand or forehead won't be able to buy or sell -- believers who Do accept the 666 will receive God's severe judgement.
But, the key element is to make sure of your personal salvation. Now.
Curtis
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Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus was speaking directly to the Jews here. The Jews were always considered God's elect from the very beginning. After the rapture of the Church, God turns his attention to the Jews. He (God) will remove the vail that has hidden the truth of their savior, and then the Jews will go wild preaching the Gospel every where. These are the elect that God will shorten the tribulation for. This all happens after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (rapture)
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Rom 11:27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
Rom 11:28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Jesus was speaking directly to the Jews here. The Jews were always considered God's elect from the very beginning. After the rapture of the Church, God turns his attention to the Jews. He (God) will remove the vail that has hidden the truth of their savior, and then the Jews will go wild preaching the Gospel every where. These are the elect that God will shorten the tribulation for. This all happens after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (rapture)
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Rom 11:27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
Rom 11:28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Curtis
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The "rapture" is not "secret" to those who are going. It is only a secret to those who are not going!
Curtis
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Five "wise" virgins, and five "foolish" virgins. Jesus referred the Kingdom of God as a man who planted "wheat", and his enemy came and planted "tares". The Son of God was the one who planted the wheat, and the devil planted the tares.
The devil does NOT go out where there is adultery, fornication, and every way to plant his tares as they are already his! The Devil plant his tares in Churches where they will have maximum affect. Wheat, and tares all worshiping together. Some born again, and other not even saved, but they sure look real to every body. Five foolish virgins look just the five wise virgins, but they are no where near the same as God takes the wheat and he leaves the tares behind that were never his to begin with!!
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
How does one prepare for the rapture? Get saved, by being born again by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God.
The devil does NOT go out where there is adultery, fornication, and every way to plant his tares as they are already his! The Devil plant his tares in Churches where they will have maximum affect. Wheat, and tares all worshiping together. Some born again, and other not even saved, but they sure look real to every body. Five foolish virgins look just the five wise virgins, but they are no where near the same as God takes the wheat and he leaves the tares behind that were never his to begin with!!
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
How does one prepare for the rapture? Get saved, by being born again by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God.
The Jews are definitely God's chosen people. But as to them All being of the elect? All I Do know is that only God Does know who will accept Him and who won't. We don't.
It's more -- how long before Christ takes His church out of here. How bad Will living get? There Are those who believe it will be a mid-trib rapture. I really suspect that 'we' Won't know. We will be very busy Living In the world's situation.
@ Curtis -- shouldn't there Be unsaved in our churches -- lots of people feel 'safe' in a church. In some churches they'll hear about salvation and hopefully accept God's gift of salvation. And 'we' can share Scripture with our friends / neighbors and hopefully they will accept Christ. And we can bring Them to church with us.
And, you've got a point. Satan doesn't bother the non-Christians because, like you said, he already has them. He Does want to make Christians as ineffective as possible. How they are living -- what their lives are showing. What sinfulness we allow in our lives that others observe and are turned-off from Christianity as a result.
Our actions/ speech -- how Christ-like Are we.
I have a way of preaching sermons to myself on this forum.
Rapture Deception
Christ warns us in scripture to not be decieved and then explains in scripture His 2nd coming in Detail!
He never mentions a secret caught up of the church before He returns! That is False Doctrine!
Christ is telling us what it will be like at His 2nd coming and what signs to look for. NO ONE knows the exact day, only the FATHER AHAYAH!
Christians believe they won't have to go through Great Tribulation but that's not what Scriptures say! Let's read:
Matthew 24:3-5
[3]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
[4]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
[5]For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:36-41
[36]But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37]But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Question, in Noe's day did anyone get raptured up??? Yashaya said it's going to be just like it was in Noe's day!
Remember
2 Peter 1:20
[20]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Let's continue:
[38]For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39]And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Question? Verse 39 says, And knew not until the flood came. Who knew not? Noah and his family or those outside the ark? Since Noah was obeying GOD in building the ark they knew the flood was coming! But those outside did not know it was coming.
And took them all away (those outside the ark) were killed and destroyed.
The word Took is the same as (TAKEN) in some scriptures. It is important to understand how it is being used.
Here it means killed, destroyed!
It's funny we say when someone dies that the Lord Took him! See how WE associate that word with death!
(Took) in that scripture means
death occurred!
Confirmed in these scriptures:
After The Flood
Genesis 7:21-23
[21]And all flesh died, that mooued vpon the earth, both of fowle, & of cattell, and of beast, and of euery creeping thing that creepeth vpon the earth, and euery man.
[22]All in whose nosethrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
[23]And euery liuing substance was destroyed, which was vpon the face of the ground, both man and cattell, and the creeping things, and the foule of the heauen; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah onely remained aliue, and they that were with him in the Arke.
Remained alive and left behind means
The same!
Christ explains:
Luke 17:26-31,34-36
[26]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
[31]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
In these next scriptures someone Is Taken (killed) or left behind to live. As it was in the days of noah referring to the word Took
As Christ said!
[34]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
[35]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[36]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[40]Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41]Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Remember in Noahs's day no one was raptured up, some were killed and some were left alive!
The Christian Church and Catholic church made us believe that being Taken was a good thing and being left behind was not but come to find out that it's the total opposite in those scriptures
Christ warns us in scripture to not be decieved and then explains in scripture His 2nd coming in Detail!
He never mentions a secret caught up of the church before He returns! That is False Doctrine!
Christ is telling us what it will be like at His 2nd coming and what signs to look for. NO ONE knows the exact day, only the FATHER AHAYAH!
Christians believe they won't have to go through Great Tribulation but that's not what Scriptures say! Let's read:
Matthew 24:3-5
[3]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
[4]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
[5]For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:36-41
[36]But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37]But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Question, in Noe's day did anyone get raptured up??? Yashaya said it's going to be just like it was in Noe's day!
Remember
2 Peter 1:20
[20]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Let's continue:
[38]For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39]And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Question? Verse 39 says, And knew not until the flood came. Who knew not? Noah and his family or those outside the ark? Since Noah was obeying GOD in building the ark they knew the flood was coming! But those outside did not know it was coming.
And took them all away (those outside the ark) were killed and destroyed.
The word Took is the same as (TAKEN) in some scriptures. It is important to understand how it is being used.
Here it means killed, destroyed!
It's funny we say when someone dies that the Lord Took him! See how WE associate that word with death!
(Took) in that scripture means
death occurred!
Confirmed in these scriptures:
After The Flood
Genesis 7:21-23
[21]And all flesh died, that mooued vpon the earth, both of fowle, & of cattell, and of beast, and of euery creeping thing that creepeth vpon the earth, and euery man.
[22]All in whose nosethrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
[23]And euery liuing substance was destroyed, which was vpon the face of the ground, both man and cattell, and the creeping things, and the foule of the heauen; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah onely remained aliue, and they that were with him in the Arke.
Remained alive and left behind means
The same!
Christ explains:
Luke 17:26-31,34-36
[26]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
[31]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
In these next scriptures someone Is Taken (killed) or left behind to live. As it was in the days of noah referring to the word Took
As Christ said!
[34]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
[35]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[36]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[40]Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41]Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Remember in Noahs's day no one was raptured up, some were killed and some were left alive!
The Christian Church and Catholic church made us believe that being Taken was a good thing and being left behind was not but come to find out that it's the total opposite in those scriptures
There's no Pre or Mid Trib Rapture!
Scripture reads:
Matthew 24:29-31
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
[16]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Immediately AFTER!
Scripture reads:
Matthew 24:29-31
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
[16]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Immediately AFTER!
You can prepare yourself for what's about to happen or you can ignore the signs, but no one will escape great tribulation. We all must go through it for in the end the same shall be saved!
Matthew 24:13,21,29-31
[13]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[21]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:13,21,29-31
[13]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[21]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
[10]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Colossians 2:8
[8]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[10]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Colossians 2:8
[8]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Curtis
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You might want to read the Bible a little more closely.
Gen 7:1 Then the LORD said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation.
Gen 7:4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.”
When did the flood come after Noah and his family got into the ark? Seven days!!!
B-A-C
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Not quite right, God told them it was going to start raining in seven days.. get ready.
Gen 7:11; In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.
Gen 7:12; The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:13; On the very same day Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark,
Gen 7:14; they and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, all sorts of birds.
Gen 7:15; So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life.
Gen 7:16; Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the LORD closed it behind him.
They entered the ark the same day it started raining.
Curtis
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Your right, but God told them in "seven" days it is going to start raining for 40 days.
Gen 7:4 For in seven days I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living substance and thing that I have made I will destroy, blot out, and wipe away from the face of the earth.
Not exactly a surprise was it?
Curtis
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My bad, I opened my mouth before doing do diligence.
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