The Rapture

[Sue D.]

Bill -- you are talking about a works-based salvation.

What about Christians who Don't get baptized. Are they true Christians?

And 'we' don't know that Judas won't be in heaven.

Getting a grade in school -- okay, an A. Some people get good grades fairly easily -- others have to work for them. Getting a good grade usually means that we have a good grasp of the material we are trying to learn. We Do like to see those high grades -- looks good in our school record and makes it easier to get into college. And it Does help in life to have a good grasp of what we're trying to accomplish In life. A school teacher, a plumber, a machinist Needs to have a good grasp of their intended occupation.

But it Isn't correct to relate That to our salvation. Where are we placing our faith. We Should be placing it in the blood Christ being sufficient.
Since salvation is a FREE gift from God. Why should we Need to 'work' to keep it. We didn't work to Get it. But once we Have that Free gift -- we'll Want to live our lives to please the giver Of the gift. But he's not threatening to 'take it Back' because He has made sure that we Won't loose it.

We Are running a race in this life. We need to keep our eyes on the 'end' of the race / our goal-post is heaven. In the Meantime - we are here on earth. God Does have a job for each of us. But they are Not in the form of 'good works towards salvation" They Are things we are doing to please God.

Why do 'we' Assume that all the Apostles were baptized. Maybe they lived in a very dry (arid) land and immersing a person in it, wasn't possible. That would apply to Anyone. Maybe a person accepts Christ while in a jet liner that crashes and goes down. They haven't had a chance To be baptized.

 

[norapture]

Let's start with the passage in 2 Timothy 3: 16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

God has chosen to give of His Word, the Bible. He Wants us to know everything in His Word.

Referring back to #574 -- God's Word Does tell us that there Will be a 7 yr period of tribulation and Then 1,000 yrs. of Jesus reign on this earth. Read the book of Revelation 20 talks about this vs 3 and 4 - 6 7 - 10

Look also at Daniel 9 :24 and following. The seventy weeks are explained. vs 27 specifically. That one last '7' is in the future. The seven years of tribulation -- in the middle of That period of time there will be the Great Tribulation.

And, yes, Jesus Christ IS going to swoop born-again believer up and out of this messed up world.

And, yes, there Is eternal security upon a person's salvation. Ephesians 1:13 - 14 "In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation , and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit , who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory." The Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believer immediately -- our soul is 'sealed' until we acquire possession of it -- until we are with Jesus Christ. THAT is eternal security.

God Wants mankind to be prepared For the future. That is why we are told about a future heaven and/ or hell in Everyone's future. They Both will exist and everyone Will end up in one of those places. God tells us how to stay Out of the one place and to be able to BE in the Other place. And it's all really very simple. The cross of Christ -- his blood being shed for taking care of our sins. It's His gift to us. But it has to be accepted By 'us' in order to do us any good. We place our Faith in the fact that the blood of Christ is all that's needed. No good works on our part has any bearing on our salvation becoming a personal reality for us.

And what about all of us who Have been taught and Do believe and listen to God's Word. post #570 we Do learn all about what God Wants us to know.

"We" need to be spiritually prepared to 'face Today ' - whatever it brings. Our accepting Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior Does allow for us to be secure in Christ NOW.

Sue so was you replying to post # 570 ? Cause I didn't see a answer to the 3 questions, but maybe you wasn't referring to the questions,

 

[norapture]

Alright, fair enough. This is what i have been sharing here from the beginning.

Love is the key to heaven, faith is important, but not as important as love. Whoever loves from thier heart, already has God within. Even if they dont know who Jesus isin thier head.

The teaching of pre trib rapture is false, it has been pushed 1) as a great escape before the poop hits the fan, so to speak, and 2) to keep Christians unprepared for the future.

Because the greatest challenge of your lifetime is coming. The choice of the Mark of the Beast. By not taking it you will be deemed an outcast, menice to society. No job will be open to you. Your family will be starvng. You know what God says if you take it. You will be rejected.

This also flies in the face of another false teaching. The false teaching states, once you accept Jesus as Lord, you can never fall away and lose your salvation.

Scripture shows clearly the story of Judas. Scripture states while being a disciple, he was given athority over demons and healed people. Jesus even stated his name was written in heaven. Yet in the end he thought he knew more than God and rejected Him by betryal and a kiss. Jesus said, it would be better if he had not been born.

yet ppl ignore these scriptures, and make up excuses for not following them.

So you see , they are not what you want to hear. My purpose is to witness the truth, and its the fire of God that drives me.

I agree with what you said , these teachings

 

[Bill]

Bill -- you are talking about a works-based salvation.

What about Christians who Don't get baptized. Are they true Christians?

And 'we' don't know that Judas won't be in heaven.

Getting a grade in school -- okay, an A. Some people get good grades fairly easily -- others have to work for them. Getting a good grade usually means that we have a good grasp of the material we are trying to learn. We Do like to see those high grades -- looks good in our school record and makes it easier to get into college. And it Does help in life to have a good grasp of what we're trying to accomplish In life. A school teacher, a plumber, a machinist Needs to have a good grasp of their intended occupation.

But it Isn't correct to relate That to our salvation. Where are we placing our faith. We Should be placing it in the blood Christ being sufficient.
Since salvation is a FREE gift from God. Why should we Need to 'work' to keep it. We didn't work to Get it. But once we Have that Free gift -- we'll Want to live our lives to please the giver Of the gift. But he's not threatening to 'take it Back' because He has made sure that we Won't loose it.

We Are running a race in this life. We need to keep our eyes on the 'end' of the race / our goal-post is heaven. In the Meantime - we are here on earth. God Does have a job for each of us. But they are Not in the form of 'good works towards salvation" They Are things we are doing to please God.

Why do 'we' Assume that all the Apostles were baptized. Maybe they lived in a very dry (arid) land and immersing a person in it, wasn't possible. That would apply to Anyone. Maybe a person accepts Christ while in a jet liner that crashes and goes down. They haven't had a chance To be baptized.

Ok, since it doesnt matter what i do, now that im a Christian. Im going to go rape and murder and do what i want. Because im saved

 

[Bill]

Bill -- you are talking about a works-based salvation.

What about Christians who Don't get baptized. Are they true Christians?

And 'we' don't know that Judas won't be in heaven.

Getting a grade in school -- okay, an A. Some people get good grades fairly easily -- others have to work for them. Getting a good grade usually means that we have a good grasp of the material we are trying to learn. We Do like to see those high grades -- looks good in our school record and makes it easier to get into college. And it Does help in life to have a good grasp of what we're trying to accomplish In life. A school teacher, a plumber, a machinist Needs to have a good grasp of their intended occupation.

But it Isn't correct to relate That to our salvation. Where are we placing our faith. We Should be placing it in the blood Christ being sufficient.
Since salvation is a FREE gift from God. Why should we Need to 'work' to keep it. We didn't work to Get it. But once we Have that Free gift -- we'll Want to live our lives to please the giver Of the gift. But he's not threatening to 'take it Back' because He has made sure that we Won't loose it.

We Are running a race in this life. We need to keep our eyes on the 'end' of the race / our goal-post is heaven. In the Meantime - we are here on earth. God Does have a job for each of us. But they are Not in the form of 'good works towards salvation" They Are things we are doing to please God.

Why do 'we' Assume that all the Apostles were baptized. Maybe they lived in a very dry (arid) land and immersing a person in it, wasn't possible. That would apply to Anyone. Maybe a person accepts Christ while in a jet liner that crashes and goes down. They haven't had a chance To be baptized.

I am not talking about a works based salvation, unless keeping God deep in your heart is a job, or reading scripture or doing what God requires of us. If these are the works, then it iss work to you.

If you cannot strive to keep God in your heart, keep love deep in your heart, you will be lost.

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- you seem to be missing a lot of 'points' relating to salvation. A born-again believer has the Holy Spirit indwelling him. There Won't Be those Desires in his heart. And there's a big difference between being Tempted to do some nasty things and actually Doing them.

Your response to # 584 does Not match anything in the post you're responding to.

Your response to 585 -- sounds like a person needs to hang on to salvation with every part of their being or they will risk loosing it. The Holy Spirit Is in the heart of the believer, He gives us the desire To read His Word. God is not Requiring us to do Anything --He Does put desires within our hearts To do His will. We Can and Should Ask Him what He would have us To do. And we will have decisions to make all the time. I mean I COULD leave everything in my house exactly the way it was when my husband died. But I make decisions to Change things bit by bit. I'm presently down-sizing. I'm now the decision-maker. I COULD decide to hire a moving company and have me in Taylor next month. But I'm not going to. It would be too much too fast and too expensive.

 

[Sue D.]

Ok 3 questions for anyone who chooses to answer, but please answer by what scripture says .

1st When did Jesus say he was coming back before tribulation or after tribulation?
2nd When is the resurrection according to scripture?
3rd When did Jesus say he would raise up the ones he gives eternal life?

Remember it's not about what we believe or been taught but according to God's Word.

These are very broad-based questions / In other words -- supposedly -- when a person Does use only straight forward Scripture to respond with -- they Will come up with the same conclusions that the asker has. And That simply is Not the case.

It's also assuming that Most people aren't Really being taught the Word of God or we'd All come to the same conclusions as the person asking the question.

 

[norapture]

These are very broad-based questions / In other words -- supposedly -- when a person Does use only straight forward Scripture to respond with -- they Will come up with the same conclusions that the asker has. And That simply is Not the case.

It's also assuming that Most people aren't Really being taught the Word of God or we'd All come to the same conclusions as the person asking the question.

Sue these are very simple questions and I said according to what scripture says and I believe we all need to agree with God's word
Paul said let us all speak the same thing and have the same mind, so no it's not assuming most people are not being taught the word of God , it's for sure they are not being taught the word of God
Some people say Jesus won't come back till after the tribulation for the believers , and some say he is coming before tribulation for the believers
Both statements cannot be true
So one is the truth and the other a lie
One is of the devil and the other is of God
Well then you might say it's not a salvation issue
But the word says that God will send them a strong delusion, that those that don't love the truth would believe a lie and be damned
Paul even said if any man preach any other gospel than what they preached let him be accursed,
So all I ask was what does scripture say about these 3 questions
I didn't ask for reason not answer them , cause if you choose not to answer that's fine, that's everyone's choice , just don't answer or make a excuse why people can't answer,
not trying to be harse or mean , but I believe you trying to hold on to what man taught you

 

[Sue D.]

In other wards -- there Will be a rapture -- it's the timing of it that 'we' can't seem to agree on. It Will take place in a twinkling of an eye. There Will be a loud sound associated with it.

No one is lying as opposed to telling the Truth.

It is Totally a salvation issue. a person Needs to be a born-again believer in order To be caught up in the rapture.

Those who have been left behind because they have Rejected Christ Will be given a strong delusion. Someone will come up with an explanation -- probably who ever is in authority at that time.

There Will be young kids living who won't have rejected Christ who Will have a chance to accept Him as their Savior.

And what 'Man' would have been teaching Me a falsehood. Any 'man' that taught me would be Bible teachers who I grew up listening to. The preacher I grew up listening to was a great man of God / great teacher/ preacher. He taught Scripture -- he'd go back to the Greek / Hebrew meanings -- not always -- but he'd present that when he felt led to. And our youth pastor was just as Bible teaching as the pastor was.

And there Is Scripture backing up a separate 7 yr period of time-- later. And Why would believers have to endure that 7 yr period of time. 'We've' already chosen Him. That final 7 yrs. is to give the yet - unrepentant Jews another chance. God is pouring down His wrath on Them.

 

[norapture]

In other wards -- there Will be a rapture -- it's the timing of it that 'we' can't seem to agree on. It Will take place in a twinkling of an eye. There Will be a loud sound associated with it.

No one is lying as opposed to telling the Truth.

It is Totally a salvation issue. a person Needs to be a born-again believer in order To be caught up in the rapture.

Those who have been left behind because they have Rejected Christ Will be given a strong delusion. Someone will come up with an explanation -- probably who ever is in authority at that time.

There Will be young kids living who won't have rejected Christ who Will have a chance to accept Him as their Savior.

And what 'Man' would have been teaching Me a falsehood. Any 'man' that taught me would be Bible teachers who I grew up listening to. The preacher I grew up listening to was a great man of God / great teacher/ preacher. He taught Scripture -- he'd go back to the Greek / Hebrew meanings -- not always -- but he'd present that when he felt led to. And our youth pastor was just as Bible teaching as the pastor was.

And there Is Scripture backing up a separate 7 yr period of time-- later. And Why would believers have to endure that 7 yr period of time. 'We've' already chosen Him. That final 7 yrs. is to give the yet - unrepentant Jews another chance. God is pouring down His wrath on Them.

Sue you call it a rapture, I call it what scripture calls it the coming of the Lord,
And Jesus said he was coming back after the tribulation,
You say before the tribulation, but you don't see a problem disagreeing with Jesus on that, because that is what you was taught and told all your life
Do you think Jesus forgot to tell that he was coming back before the tribulation ? Do you think he didn't know ?
No one will be left behind, cause we will be caught up on the last day, at the last trump, we will be change in a twinkle of a eye, it's called the resurrection
You say it will be a time for unrepentant Jews , can you show me what covenant that is , cause the covenant Jesus made on the cross is for unrepentant Jews, and everyone else, there is no difference anymore, it's call the gospel , and it's a everlasting covenant.
See when Jesus returns he will make that wicked city desolate for they have rejected him for 2000 years, today is the day for salvation but people keep giving them a false hope that they will have a second chance,
They need to call on the Lord today when he maybe found, cause when he comes back it will be to late

 

[SleepyEdwin]

Alright, fair enough. This is what i have been sharing here from the beginning.

Love is the key to heaven, faith is important, but not as important as love. Whoever loves from thier heart, already has God within. Even if they dont know who Jesus isin thier head.

The teaching of pre trib rapture is false, it has been pushed 1) as a great escape before the poop hits the fan, so to speak, and 2) to keep Christians unprepared for the future.

Because the greatest challenge of your lifetime is coming. The choice of the Mark of the Beast. By not taking it you will be deemed an outcast, menice to society. No job will be open to you. Your family will be starvng. You know what God says if you take it. You will be rejected.

This also flies in the face of another false teaching. The false teaching states, once you accept Jesus as Lord, you can never fall away and lose your salvation.

Scripture shows clearly the story of Judas. Scripture states while being a disciple, he was given athority over demons and healed people. Jesus even stated his name was written in heaven. Yet in the end he thought he knew more than God and rejected Him by betryal and a kiss. Jesus said, it would be better if he had not been born.

yet ppl ignore these scriptures, and make up excuses for not following them.

So you see , they are not what you want to hear. My purpose is to witness the truth, and its the fire of God that drives me.

Your problem is that you ignore that without faith in Him you cannot love anybody. Believers can truly love because Jesus Christ loved us first! He is the source of true love, without Him people could only love evil because of our sinful nature. So faith is the most important part of a believer's live, without faith you are not even a believer!

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

It does not say that by love the just shall live but by faith!!

At the moment you changed His Word and its meaning to teach people here a fake doctrine, you are conspiring against the Lord. Be careful and repent from it! Even if you say you did it with good intentions, the Holy Spirit will tell you that you are just deceiving yourself and others. You do not want people not to have faith, the very same they need for salvation, do you?

Of course love is important but it will never be true love if faith is not its foundation.

Then I will talk about the real purpose of the Tribulation.

People, you should not ignore this because the Tribulation always has been about Israel and then the rest of the nations that refused to believe in God. Tribulation is made of the last 7 years God owns Israel before he judges His people. The Church had and has and will have nothing to do with it because it is not about Christians at all. Revelation stops speaking of the Church after the messages to the 7 Churches because the Church is not on earth by that time! If Christians were in the middle of the Wrath of God, He would tell us that he would pour it right upon us! Curiously He never does, but in the Gospels He does mention that one will be taken and the other will be left. Where did you ever find a reason to think any of those two guys or women were suffering? If any or both of them would have been punished harshly for their sins, He would tell us, but he does not! They were either sleeping or working. There is NO sign of punishment right at the rapture the Lord Himself mentioned there.

We all should also notice that those that defend the post tribulation rapture are Catholic representatives. They keep saying that everything will continue the way it is till the Wrath of God will be poured down. The truth is THAT IS A LIE! We all know the Church is not the same as Israel and Daniel already tell us that the 70 weeks were decreed on Daniel's people not the Church!

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

As you can clearly see, there is no us as the Church! The very same existence of the Church was a mystery! It was something the Lord Himself had to reveal to us and even the angels that ignored that as well.

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:"

 

[SleepyEdwin]

Editing time expired so I will leave it right here.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

This means there will be a time when all Gentile believers will have been called by the Lord to serve Him. He also let us know he would come for us and since the Church is not involved in Israel's punishment, there will be no reason to keep us here on earth any more! Some of you also ask what purpose would it serve God to take us away before the Tribulation begins, there reason is simple, to encourage believers to do their best to please the Lord! Even if that is a must for true believers, He promised us rewards like those mentioned in the Gospels and the messages to the 7 Churches.

 

[Sue D.]

Sue you call it a rapture, I call it what scripture calls it the coming of the Lord,
And Jesus said he was coming back after the tribulation,
You say before the tribulation, but you don't see a problem disagreeing with Jesus on that, because that is what you was taught and told all your life
Do you think Jesus forgot to tell that he was coming back before the tribulation ? Do you think he didn't know ?
No one will be left behind, cause we will be caught up on the last day, at the last trump, we will be change in a twinkle of a eye, it's called the resurrection
You say it will be a time for unrepentant Jews , can you show me what covenant that is , cause the covenant Jesus made on the cross is for unrepentant Jews, and everyone else, there is no difference anymore, it's call the gospel , and it's a everlasting covenant.
See when Jesus returns he will make that wicked city desolate for they have rejected him for 2000 years, today is the day for salvation but people keep giving them a false hope that they will have a second chance,
They need to call on the Lord today when he maybe found, cause when he comes back it will be to late

You are talking about two different events that will take place -- one is the rapture when Jesus Christ comes part way in the air for His Church to be gathered up to meet Him.

The second event Is the actual coming back to earth by Jesus Christ for the next 1,000 reign on this earth.

Read post 591 -- SleepyEdwin -- he states it very well.

And there's Matthew 24: 40-41.

 

[SleepyEdwin]

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Another reason why Catholics deny the pretribulation rapture is because they want to confuse the trumpet mentioned above with those John is speaking about in Revelation. I am NOT sorry to tell you, guys, that they are not the same trumpet at all! It is curious that not even the very same Catholics that call themselves the Roman Catholic Church ignore how the Roman army actually marched in ancient times. That army used trumpets at three very different times to communicate very specific stuff, and that last trumpet was the final trumpet they needed to tell the soldiers they should start marching right away!

 

[Dave M]

Revelation 7:9
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

wonder what this verse is talking about?

 

[Sue D.]

Dave M -- it's talking about those coming out of the 7 yrs of tribulation. as is stated in vs 14 of that same chapter. The one's who the 144,000 sealed Jews will be sent to minister to - the unbelieving Jews at that time - and maybe non-Jews will be part of that number, too.

A lot of people don't like to read Revelation -- it IS a complex book , but no more than is Daniel or Ezekiel , Jeremiah , hmmm -- kind of like me and the Minor prophets. It's all in English , but it's like "Greek" to me. Daniel is a more interesting book to read. but those others - Wow -- my eyes sort of 'gloss over' when I try reading those books.

 

[norapture]

You are talking about two different events that will take place -- one is the rapture when Jesus Christ comes part way in the air for His Church to be gathered up to meet Him.

The second event Is the actual coming back to earth by Jesus Christ for the next 1,000 reign on this earth.

Read post 591 -- SleepyEdwin -- he states it very well.

And there's Matthew 24: 40-41.

You are talking about two different events that will take place -- one is the rapture when Jesus Christ comes part way in the air for His Church to be gathered up to meet Him.

The second event Is the actual coming back to earth by Jesus Christ for the next 1,000 reign on this earth.

Read post 591 -- SleepyEdwin -- he states it very well.

And there's Matthew 24: 40-41.

Sue there is no event well Jesus only comes to the air only, why would he do that ,why not just rapture the Church all the way to heaven, why meet us in the air
It's because after we are caught up to be with him in the air he will destroy the ones left just like the days of Noah, just like the days of Lot
Ok Matthew 24 40-41 what makes you think this is not after the tribulation, Jesus didn't say this would take place before his coming
Luke 17 24 For as the lightening that lighteneth out of one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven, so shall also the Son of man be in his day

Sounds like everyone will see him in his day

verse 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the son of man
27 They did eat , they drank, they married wives , they were giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark , and the flood came , and destroyed them all

So we see here THE DAY that Noah when in the ark the flood destroyed the ones left

verse 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot , they did eat , they drank , they boughtb, they sold, they planted, they builded
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven , and destroyed them all

it plainly states in THE SAME DAY

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed

See when he comes back the Church is caught up and he destroys the rest

Now here is the time frame for Matthew 24 40-41
Luke 17 verse 31-37
it is clearly when he comes back

In verse 37 They ask him where Jesus says, Wheresoever the body is , thither will the eagles be gathered together ,
What does he mean ?

 

[norapture]

Revelation 7:9
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

wonder what this verse is talking about?

It's talking about the ones saved In the 2nd covenant by the blood of the lamb
that's why John seen 144 thousand first,,( 1st covenant,) then he seen a great multitude that no man could number there will be people from all nations even Jews in the 2nd
people want to say the 144 thousand will be ministering but that's just been taught them by man
In Revelations 14 it tells that the 144 thousand are the firstfruits unto God , that means they are first
Not last
1 Corinthians 15- 23 plainly states the order,, Christ the firstfruits then those at his coming,
When Jesus was crucified the graves was open whe Jesus was on the cross but no saints got up till Jesus arose from the grave
In in Matthew 27 verses 52,53

Every man in his on order

 

[Dave M]

1 Thessalonians 1:10 ESV / 14 helpful votes
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.


this sounds like we are going to miss the tribulation, as that is when God will pour out his wrath

 

[B-A-C]

this sounds like we are going to miss the tribulation, as that is when God will pour out his wrath

This is somewhat controversial. You may be right, but many take "the wrath to come" as escape from Hades and the Lake of Fire.

It seems with many people here, it's all or none, but there is another teaching out there.

Some believe "some" churches, (maybe marginalized??) will go through at least part of the tribulation.

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

But perhaps other churches won't?

Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

But it does seem that at least some of the church could go through it?

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Why would "the elect" be in the great tribulation?
...also...

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

It seems He will "gather together" (rapture) His elect "AFTER" the tribulation of those days. Now it is possible the "pre-trib rapture" happened before this, but even if it did, there will be some saved
during the tribulation.

Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.