The right thing to do......???

[Fragrant Grace]

Whenever people say this, I have to wonder if they will follow the laws of the government when they say you have to take the mark on your right hand or forehead?

Yes and that may be next on the agenda

 

[Rhema]

for vaccination drastically reduces the chance of contracting the virus in the first place,

Only because the overall amount of people who are contagious is reduced. And since the immune system is "sensitized," it also reduces the physical damage the virus can cause, in turn reducing the need for heroic measures in a hospital overburden with cases. Yet a good friend of mine is in the ICU battling covid (and double pneumonia) this very minute, and he too was fully vaccinated. Unfortunately, he has the dreaded "comorbidities" and didn't limit his exposure.

but from the evidence its clear to say that far fewer people would have suffered and died had this vaccination programme been more successful

Indeed.

and i believe they will face Gods judgment accordingly for their actions.

Wow, you kinda like that whole judgement thing.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.​

(Matthew 5:44-45 KJV)​

My point is that Jesus has a completely different view on the judgment of God.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

And whilst I do not want this jab, ...

Why ?

 

[Rhema]

The issue I think for many is the pressure and threat taking away personal choice and conscientious objection on a global scale.

Just realize that there is stupidity on a global scale.

Like it or not, we all are part of, and rely upon, a social structure that has become global. Yet even "national" or "local" is beyond the scope of "individual" decisions. You yourself have expressed a dilemma that is beyond the individual, since your family members are involved. Every day we all rely upon the expertise of others for guidance and advice - from auto repair to clean water. (And you let society deal with your trash...) So I don't understand why this medical decision would (or should be) different from other medical decisions. Eliminate the issues of governmental force. Would you personally be vaccinated to prevent yourself from being contagious to your family members? Would you personally be vaccinated to reduce the possibility of you dying from this infection? Where would your family be then? (And like it or not, covid has a significantly higher death rate than the common flu.)

Is this whole "666" Government power beast thing actually distracting you from the critical issue at hand? (Medical protection for your family.)

From my perspective, the "Mandate Rebellion" is a red herring, and only serves to muddy the waters on a strictly medical decision. Why would you even let "666" fears enter into such a decision?

Rhema

PS: And most scholars now agree that the actual number initially written in the text was 616.

PPS: Watch out for negative terminology. Where did you first hear the word "jab" ?? Why would you use that term? It has inherent negativity to begin with, so is that affecting your decision? Should all people hold negative views on the use of a needle? Or people who use needles? (So much for diabetics...)

PPPS: If you are not acquainted with the Jehovah's Witnesses' views on the prohibition of blood transfusions, this might be a good time to review just how stupid people can get when insane cultist religious beliefs supplant common sense.

Finally, my questions are not statements, they are questions meant to help broaden the scope of the discussion.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8: 38 - 39

 

[Rhema]

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8: 38 - 39

We have a lot of dead pastors here in the US who thought that verse applied to them and covid. I guess being dead, though, they're only separated from their family, not God.

Rhema

 

[Br. Bear]

At the same time ...

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

history can claim lots of dead pastors from around the world who died believing whatever they did.

Somehow doesn't provide any substantial ground for anything much.

For those who are unsure about the current global vaccination push, for whatever reason, the verses quoted by Fragrant Grace offer some comfort and some assurance that our Lord is sufficient to keep those who trust in Him. We know He is faithful and His promises are True.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Rhema]

history can claim lots of dead pastors from around the world who died believing whatever they did.

Exactly. That should tell you something.

Somehow doesn't provide any substantial ground for anything much.

If God can't keep you safe, even from your own stupidity, He ain't much of a God. We need to ask if our Father in heaven is an inept Father.

Dead pastors weren't under the protection of God for a reason.

Walking in divine protection is part and parcel to life and life more abundantly. Sorry Bear, dead pastors are not exhibiting abundant life. Plain and simple.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

We know He is faithful and His promises are True.

God is NOT faithful to that which is NOT His word.

(And for the most part, it's the faith of the disciple that's the problem.)

 

[Br. Bear]

@Rhema

Yes, i understand


Bless you ....><>

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Would you personally be vaccinated to prevent yourself from being contagious to your family members? Would you personally be vaccinated to reduce the possibility of you dying from this infection? Where would your family be then? (And like it or not, covid has a significantly higher death rate than the common flu.)

Greetings @Rhema

Thank you for your reply

Here in the little tiny corner of Australia that I am in I have not encountered anyone with the virus.
This specific local area has had around 4 positive cases I believe.

So being removed from it .....makes it harder to believe and understand the impact.

I also have communication with close family and people who think and say that the virus is not real and that its not that terrible.

However, having had communication with some dear brothers and sisters around the world and my mother in the UK I am beginning to understand how lethal the virus is and that it is indeed real.

Where did you first hear the word "jab" ?? Why would you use that term? It has inherent negativity to begin with, so is that affecting your decision? Should all people hold negative views on the use of a needle? Or people who use needles? (So much for diabetics...)

Its just the No Jab No Job propaganda around Australia - hence using that terminology (example link posted below)

As a nurse I do not have any negative views on medical injections

Australia to announce ‘no jab, no pay’ rules

Australia is set to announce new “no jab, no pay” rules for all health workers in a move that is set to inflame tensions with anti-vaxxers.

www.news.com.au

 

[Fragrant Grace]

We have a lot of dead pastors here in the US who thought that verse applied to them and covid. I guess being dead, though, they're only separated from their family, not God.

Rhema

@Rhema

I was referring to the vaccine not to Covid.

 

[Rhema]

Here in the little tiny corner of Australia that I am in I have not encountered anyone with the virus.
This specific local area has had around 4 positive cases I believe.

So being removed from it .....makes it harder to believe and understand the impact.

As mentioned, I have a good friend fighting for his life in the ICU right now. Though fully vaccinated, his immune system and lungs were not too good to begin with. Cases abound where I live, and Pennsylvania had an 8% death rate in the early stages of this pandemic. Over the last two month, there have numerous deaths from covid in all age and ethnic groups in the Lehigh Valley Hospital, Allentown PA. All of these were un-vaccinated. I know this directly from a friend who is a respiratory therapist and has directly dealt with covid patients from day one.

But I understand. I can ask myself, how would I feel if I was mandated to get a vaccine for Ebola, a virus MUCH more deadly, but one present only way over in Africa and completely unlikely to be here. But the nursing home a block away from where I live has averaged 250 cases since the pandemic began.

However, having had communication with some dear brothers and sisters around the world and my mother in the UK I am beginning to understand how lethal the virus is and that it is indeed real.

Here's one of the best sources for tracking world impact.

COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)

coronavirus.jhu.edu

Play with the numbers, but yes, the death rate is lower (or higher) for other parts of the world.

Its just the No Jab No Job propaganda around Australia -

Propaganda likes using negative terms. Have you been able to review the medcram video links I posted near the front of this thread?

And remember, my questions were to help you broaden the scope for your decision.

Rhema

I was referring to the vaccine not to Covid.

Yes, we have a lot of dead pastors here who thought the vaccine was satanic.

 

[The Church of Repentance]

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8: 38 - 39

Is it not written your sins will separate you from God?
Yes or no?

 

[Rad]

Wow, you kinda like that whole judgement thing.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:44-45 KJV)

My point is that Jesus has a completely different view on the judgment of God.

Its not that i "kinda like that whole judgement thing", its just that Judgment is an integral part of Christs teachings and we all need to be aware that we will be held accountable for our actions in Words and Deeds.

Matthew 16 vs 27, For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 25 vs 31-46 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

and Matthew 12 vs 36-37 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

but i dont want to derail this thread so ill leave it at that.

 

[Rhema]

Its not that i "kinda like that whole judgement thing", its just that Judgment is an integral part of Christs teachings

Not more than repentance and forgiveness and a righteousness in love.

 

[Mayflower]

So I would say this article one of the single most food for thought articles that helped me.

What Jesus Might Say to His Followers Regarding Covid-19 Vaccination - Kyle McNutt

I am not at all interested in trying to convince you of the "necessity" of taking either position [on vaccines]. My guess is that you have already had plenty of conversations along those lines. This is especially true if you have spent five minutes on social media. Instead, as someone who is a...

kylemcnutt.com

The entire topic is hard for me. Nothing seems right. I did take two shots of phfizer. I am glad I did and not afraid to have done so. My husband recently had covid and it was horrible. He was bedridden for about three weeks. Me and the kids didn't get it by the grace of God. I do not want to take a booster, because I am against the mandates. I support my husband and over a hundred I know who do not want to take this vaccine. It isn't right and people should have a say what to put into their bodies and how to protect themselves from illness.

 

[Rhema]

I do not want to take a booster, because I am against the mandates.

If you react against the government, then the government is still driving your decision.

Ignore the mandates, eliminate the government from the equation. What would you do then?

Rhema

PS: I've never let the government affect any of my decisions:

And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, saying, We straitly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.​

(Acts 5:27-29 RV)​

 

[Hekuran]

If you react against the government, then the government is still driving your decision.

Ignore the mandates, eliminate the government from the equation. What would you do then?

That's a wise way to approach the situation.

 

[Reba1]

In reading some of these conversations dealing with the protection of God. I am asking if Stephen was not under His protection? How about John the Baptist. Peter etc? Is His protection to only our physical life or to real life , for lack of a better term, the Spiritual one.
As to covid i have the shots will resist government mandates.