The Trinity - True or False

[emily445455]

I believe all verses of the KJV to be the Word of God.

I do not understand fully the concept of the Trinity...I just believe what the Bible tells me.

 

[Fitzman]

Eyes to see

1Co 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit." NIV

God is a Spirit. Ask Him nicely and He will reveal Himself. He loves to show the people He made the truth. (James 1).

 

[Chad]

Yes, it is true that many bibles state this. However, as stated in previous posts by others, these words were never in the original manuscripts. They were added much later by people trying to confirm their belief in the trinity. A few questions I have are
1) How can a being be distributed? Many recieve the Holy Spirit upon conversion.
2) If the Holy Spirit were an actual being, why would it need to be renewed within a person?
3) If Jesus and the Father were one, how could Jesus return to the Father? Would He not be returning to Himself?
4) If Jesus and the Father were one, how could Jesus say He was doing His Father's will, not His own?
Just a few questions I would like to be answered...

You contradict the Bible. You did not research, study for yourself. You only believed what the RCG tells you. Is that honest and respectful towards GOD's to claim something not true, and without research?

To answer your questions:

1. GOD is inifinitely wise, powerful. GOD can "distribute" Himself to His believers freely. He is outside time and space.

To quote a piece of article form Gotquestions.org

The Bible teaches that God reigns over the nations from His holy throne in Heaven (Psalm 47:8; Isaiah 6:1, 66:1; Hebrews 4:16). Even though we know that God’s presence is in some sense uniquely in Heaven, the teachings of Scripture also make it clear that God is omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time).

2. Where in Scripture does it say anything about the Holy Spirit renewing Himself in a person? I don't recall reading anything about Him renewing Himself in us. Also, how is that relevant to the Holy Spirit being the 3rd person of GOD or not?

3. Because Jesus (Son of GOD) came down into the form of a man. GOD was / is in Heaven (his dwelling place). Its all in the Scripture, the Gospels very clearly. How can you even deny or question that at all when its right there in the Bible? Its like your arguing with Scripture.

4. Because it is just that, He was doing the Father's will. Why is that hard to believe? Why and HOW is that relevant at all to the trinity?

Study and pray for wisdom before claiming anything about the Bible.

You mentioned in another thread you belong to the RCG (Restored Church of GOD). Taken from their website, let's look at what they say:

Over the course of Mr. Armstrong's ministry, God revealed through him a great many true biblical doctrines, which had been lost to the Church through the centuries. Hundreds of millions heard his voice and read his literature. After Mr. Armstrong's death, his successors ceased to believe and teach these doctrines. The Restored Church of God is committed to the preservation and teaching of every one of the truths that God brought back to His Church. While many groups arose from the WCG, we are the only true extension of Mr. Armstrong's ministry—the Church in which Christ is now working!

I find this absurd. GOD decided to reveal to just one man the "true biblical doctrines, which had been lost to the Church though the centuries"? I don't think so.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

The only book you need is the Holy Bible and belief in Jesus as the Son of GOD. I'm baffled and amazed you practically even disputed every possible Scripture already mentioned in this thread (12+ pages long) even my last post which I nicely laid out in clear details - that makes it so obvious that GOD is 3 beings.

 

[BibleBeliever7]

True according to 1 John 5:7.

 

[brodav9]

word is Jesus proof

I hope that you are like the Bereans in the book of Acts and will search to see that these things I want to bless you with are so. in John ch.1 you have the word you were talking about then in the book of Revelations you have a statement in Rev. 19:13 that he is called the word of God. but when you look at surrounding passages you see in v.12 a description. He has eyes like a flame of fire. now look at v.15 he has in his mouth a sharp sword. symbolic yes. in ch. 1:14 and 16 you again have the sword and flame eyes. in Rev. 2:18 we can now see that the one with eyes flame fire is the one talking saying there that he is the son of God. John 3:16 God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. in ch. 1:10 when you see the word Spirit capitolised it is saying he was in the Holy Spirit. the spirit of man is never capitolised, see Rev. 16:14 spirits are not capitolised. Spirit of God is his other personality. which is triune Rev. 1:6 God and his Father shows that this son Jesus is God and his Father cap. F is God. what makes the trinity hard to understand is that we see the number one as a single unit. like saying one day. God is one God essence eternally manifested as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is able to be everywhere at the same time. he is omnipresent. Jn. 4 God is a Spirit and not a flesh God he is not confined to a space like we are. I hope that you understand all I have written for God is very deep and far greater than we are.

 

[pafindr]

Can God be tempted?
No he is immortal can so cannot sin, and cannot be tempted
But Luke 4v2 says that Christ was tempted if Christ was tempted how can be God because God cannot be tempted.

Just because he was tempted does not mean he felt tempted.
Example;
I tempt you with a german chocolate cake. (You have just been tempted)
BUT
You do not feel the temptation because you hate chocolate.

Jesus was tempted by satan but He did not feel the temptation because He hates sin.

Does that make sense?:coocoo:
anyway I hope it helps

pafindr

 

[lettheredeemed]

Man can try:


Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.


Jesus Christ never sinned.


Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

 

[MES]

Hi Nugget,

Please let me help you to answer your questions.
I will add [MES:] before my answers.

Here they are:

By me posting in this forum with this particular topic please dont think that i am trying to debate or trying to get peoples backs up.
I have studied this particular topic after reading some coments on the trinity that made it simply ilogical, so i read up on it and did some study on it.
PLEASE post your coments here about it. If i am wrong i realy would appriciate someone prooving what i have found incorrect.
ThankYou &
God Bless


WHY DON’T I BELIEVE THE TRINITY

John 1v1 – 3 says
In the begging was the WORD
The WORD was with God
And the WORD was God
V 14 tells us that the word is Jesus Christ
[MES:] You can read John 8:58, please

The new testaments was written in the Greek, the original Greek word for the word “WORD” is logos which means mind or purpose, wisdom of thought an idea.
So if you read that section of scripture how it was written it would be
In the begging was the “thought or idea”
And the “thought or idea was with God
And the “thought or idea was God
So you can see that in the begging god had a thought or idea and that thought or idea was Christ, it was God because it was in his mind he thought about it constantly.

If you then look at verse 18 of that exact came chapter it says No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
No one had seen God except Christ which means, that Christ couldn’t have been God because If he was then that verse would be a lie, because everyone who had seen Christ would have seen God.
Even the believers of the time of Christ believed he was the Son of God he wasn’t actually God v 49 Nathaniel answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 10v30 says I and my father are one
This verse would seem to prove the trinity in saying that Christ was God
BUT….Psalms 82 v 6 says that all who hears the word of God is a God, does this mean that if the trinity is correct then all of us who have heard the word of Gods are all God, so there would not be any need for salvation because we would all be God and seems as 1 Tim 1 v 17 says that God is immortals that means we would all be immortal.
No it doesn’t the Hebrew word there for god is God Elohim- which means mighty ones, or the might or power of God has filled them.
So God and his son are one because Christ is full of Gods might or power.

A couple of questions
Can God die?
Answer no he cant God is immortal (1 Tim 1v17, and 1 Tim 6v16)
So how can God be Christ if Christ died, but God cannot die?
Can God be tempted?
No he is immortal can so cannot sin, and cannot be tempted
But Luke 4v2 says that Christ was tempted if Christ was tempted how can be God because God cannot be tempted.
More questions
If God and Christ is the same person who ran the World while Christ was one the earth In a MORTAL body, he didn’t have the power to rule the world, because he was mortal.
Who ran the world while Christ was in Mary’s stomach, Christ couldn’t have done it.

Quotes that show the trinity doesn’t quite add up

John 3v16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 Tim 2v5 – One God One Mediator (mediator Christ) 2 people.
John 13v1 - Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
John 17 – Christ is praying to God…If God and Christ are the same person then Christ is talking to himself.
John 17v6- I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 20v17 –Christ not yet ascended to his father
Matt 19v16-17 – A man kept calling Christ good and “Good Master”, Christ replies with there is none Good but one that is GOD
Mark 14v36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
John 5v30 – I seek not mine own will, but the will of the father which hath sent me.
John5v19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Romans 3 v 24 – Gods grace is in Christ

Mark 13v32 - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
The day that Christ returns to set of his kingdom is known only to God even his son doesn’t no, so how can they be the same person.

[MES:] The Triune GOD is the Almighty GOD who has unlimited power ! He can be anywhere and everywhere. He can be in Mary's stomach because the Holy Spirit's work.

As a human being, Jesus Christ is WORD in flesh. He must die to pay all sins of people in the world. He was tempted too in the desert to prove that He was a truly Son of GOD. Satan said "If you Son of GOD..." (Matthew 4:4-6). If Jesus obey the Satan's will, then it means Jesus was not sure that He was the Son of GOD. But Jesus didn't obey Satan's will. He proved that He was the Son of GOD.

As a Son of GOD He has a great power, but He didn't show His power because He obey the will of the Heavenly Father. We can read Matthew 26:53 for reference.

As a human being, He didn't know the day that He (Christ) will return as written on Mark 13:32. But after His ascension, as a Son of GOD, I am really sure He knows the Day He will return.

We human beings are triune too, consist of Body, Soul, and Spirit.

Those I can share with you. Hope I can help you.

Thanks,

MES

 

[onewrite]

The "Divine Trinity"

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
A conglomerate of the divine Godhead deity
The Father from the days of old
Sent his son to an earthly hole

The son came to earth to die
For the worm, that's prone to lie
The Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost), or the
Same God with a different role
Currently on earth, to reprove the world of
Sin, righteousness, and judgment
But ultimately, to draw to the
Father, the worm, or your soul

Three, divine personalities with different roles
Is the story that's been, forever told
So, you say you don't understand the Divine
Trinity
You don't understand the Son
And the Holy Spirit as divinity

Don't feel alone, for there's no need to be baffled
It's like the clay attempting to understand
The Potter, which could be laughable

And who can know, God's mind
Not a mere created mortal, belonging to
humankind
Some things require that man just believe
For there are things about God, man may never
conceive

Can you believe God walked the earth in the form
of a, man
Can you believe the Holy Spirit is God, currently
in the, land
Can you believe, God, the Father is the author of it
all
Could it be, he created some things just to remedy
the great, fall

The Trinity is said to be three Godly roles in one
Perhaps it's just the way, the Creator needed things
to be done
Man would do well, just to ponder his own
multiple, roles
That of mind, body, spirit, and soul
(America, and Religion Book: Page 133)

 

[Laudite]

There's been a pretty decent defense of the trinity, but I wanted to address some greek the op misinterprets. Logos doesn't really mean idea as you imply. I can't claim to have direct knoledge of the lexicon of the Greek that Paul wrote and spoke, but both Attic Greek (of 300 years earlier) and modern Greek do not use logos to refer to concepts of the mind, prefering instead to follow plato in using derivatives of eidos, that which is revealed

 

[51_5_16-18]

I beleive in the trinity. I don't claim to understand completly. I personally think God is beyond any of our understanding.

 

[emily445455]

I beleive in the trinity. I don't claim to understand completly. I personally think God is beyond any of our understanding.

Amen I definitly know I don't understand everything in the Bible...but I still believe it

 

[paganmystic]

51_5_16-18. wow excellent post
I too have my difficulties understanding God and that's after 30 some odd years
>>>> God bless you, our faith only requires us to live according to the Laws.

your brother in Christ

 

[Trishann]

My husband was brought up in oneness, as for me in Trinity belief. I heard
both side of it for many years. Basically it sounds the same to me but playing
with words. If you listen to it more then one time it comes to the same conclusion believing in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now exactly how it all comes about seems to be the conflict here, but I think both side can love Jesus and go to Heaven.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[nan10]

yes i believe genesis 1 v 26 says let us make man in our likeness , note us meaning more then one

 

[Boanerges]

God is tripartite, Father, Son, Holy Spirit . He made man in His own image- tripartite; spirit, soul and body.

The Father Himself calls Jesus the Most High God (Ho' Theos)
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

God has order in all He does. Jesus will always be a seperate and unique person and yet He is God. The Son is always in submission to the Father.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Gracealone]

Yes, amen...God in three persons ,blessed trinity.......

Let us make man in our own image.

 

[lettheredeemed]

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,the Word,and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. I John 5:7

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I agree with you, Trish.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

The way I see it, whether we call it The Trinity & or not, as long as we believe in The Almighty GOD, Christ Jesus & The Holy Spirit, isn't that all that really matters?

We all know there's a Holy Spirit, we know that Jesus excisted & that the Holy Spirit is From The Almighty GOD & both excist in Jesus.

*genesis!

 

[cman77]

i believe to be a true christian you must believe in the trinity. during the counsel of Nycea Arius was deemed a heritic for his teachings. he took the unity of god to extreme. i believe he said that jesus was a divine being but a creation of god and not god himself. he said this because he was such a believer in god being one. the resolution to this problem was one of the reasons the counsel was called.