Things that people mistake as being in the Bible

[Butch5]

Gen 6:4; The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

The sons of "God".. the daughters of "men". Why the difference? Surely there are many places in the Bible where human men are called "the sons of men". (Over 40 times in my Bible)

Jude 1:6; And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
Jude 1:7; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

What was the sexual immorality that these angels committed? Who was the "strange flesh" they committed the sexual acts with?

I'm not sure how you're making your argument. Men are also called the sons of God. Christians are called sons of God. Jude speaks of the angels. He doesn't call them the sons of God. What evidence is there that the angels Jude speaks of and the sons of God in Genesis are one and the same?

 

[Butch5]

Well, I don't know about physical bodies.

1Pet 1:12; It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

.. but it appears the Holy Spirit reveals things to humans, that the angels don't know about.

Gen 19:10; But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.

"the men" in this verse are angels. It appears they had the ability to physically "reach out their hands and" pull Lot into the house with them. Some angels at least, have the ability to physically manifest.

I agree angels can manifest. But that wasn't the issue. The issue was, are they envious of humans. If they can manifest in human bodies one has to wonder why they would be envious or what they would be envious of.

 

[Butch5]

Thank you, @Butch5.

@complete

You are most welcome!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

"the men" in this verse are angels. It appears they had the ability to physically "reach out their hands and" pull Lot into the house with them. Some angels at least, have the ability to physically manifest.

It's not just that, Paul taught that the church are adopted as sons and will judge angels, that's NOT an allegory or a hyperbole, but for real. There were these sons of God that you may remember in The OT, those are the original family of God who are above the angels, but they've gone corrupt and they will be cast out into the abyss, and the church will replace them as God's new family, so the angels will be judged when that is done. We've seen Yeshua judging the seven angels of the seven churches, make no mistake, those are not pastors, deacons, bishops, worship leaders or collective assemblies, but ANGELS appointed as overseers and guardians of these seven churches, the text meant what it says, there's a supernatural aspect in it.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I'm not sure how you're making your argument. Men are also called the sons of God. Christians are called sons of God. Jude speaks of the angels. He doesn't call them the sons of God. What evidence is there that the angels Jude speaks of and the sons of God in Genesis are one and the same?

In Deut. 32:8-9, a reference to the Tower of Babel, God disinherited all nations and allotted them to the "sons of God", therefore "sons of God" are the spiritual beings that govern the pagan nations, while God took Israel as His own people out of these nations. This is a critical portion of Scripture to build a correct biblical worldview. In the Septuagint it's translated as "angels of God" as an INTERPRETIVE translation, but that's not a big deal, those are still immortal spiritual beings, not mortal men.

 

[Br. Bear]

@Butch5
Greetings,

Hi Chris,

That's the passage. When Paul uses the word translated "your", he uses a plural pronoun. Thus he is not referring to an individual, but a group. If he was referring to them individually, he would have needed to say, your bodies, plural, are the temple of the Holy Spirit. By using the plural, your, and the singular, body, he is speaking of multiple individuals who make up one group. Paul often refers to the church as the body of Christ. The body in this passage is the Corinthian church.

what does this 'body' mean? from a grammatical standpoint:

We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Corinthians 5:10

Is that Christ's body or the every one [as individual] ?


Bless you Brother ....><>

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

what does this 'body' mean? from a grammatical standpoint:

We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Corinthians 5:10

Is that Christ's body or the every one [as individual] ?


Bless you Brother ....><>

That "body" is the church, of which Christ is the head. When Christ compared the trials and tribulations as "birth pain", that birth is the formation of Christ's body. This body will complete when the gospel is preached to ALL NATIONS on earth, as Christ prophesied in the Olivet Discourse. When Christ issued the Great Commission, that was essentially the same commandment God issued to Adam - "be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over all living creatures." This Adam had failed, but Christ, as the second and last Adam, will accomplish.

 

[watertolive]

that's a hard row to hoe...

just thought of that one

 

[B-A-C]

the same commandment God issued to Adam - "be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over all living creatures." This Adam had failed, but Christ, as the second and last Adam, will accomplish.

Hmmm.... and yet Jesus says....

Luke 13:23; And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luke 13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Luke 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'
Luke 13:26; "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luke 13:27; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Jesus is saying in these passage, relatively few will be saved, relatively many will not be saved.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Jesus is saying in these passage, relatively few will be saved, relatively many will not be saved.

So? Many are called, but few are chosen. Yeshua is offered by many but ACCEPTED by few, it had been that way during his ministry - many turned away after hearing the message of eating and drinking him, except the disciples. Nonetheless His gospel will be preached to all nations, and God’s glory will fill the earth.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5
Greetings,



what does this 'body' mean? from a grammatical standpoint:

We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Corinthians 5:10

Is that Christ's body or the every one [as individual] ?


Bless you Brother ....><>

In this verse Paul says

In Deut. 32:8-9, a reference to the Tower of Babel, God disinherited all nations and allotted them to the "sons of God", therefore "sons of God" are the spiritual beings that govern the pagan nations, while God took Israel as His own people out of these nations. This is a critical portion of Scripture to build a correct biblical worldview. In the Septuagint it's translated as "angels of God" as an INTERPRETIVE translation, but that's not a big deal, those are still immortal spiritual beings, not mortal men.

What's your evidence?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

What's your evidence?

What the verse plainly states:

"When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God."

God the Most High divided mankind into different nations and scattered them across the face of the earth. That's his original purpose in Gen. 1 - "fill the earth and subdue it."

 

[Butch5]

What the verse plainly states:

"When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God."

God the Most High divided mankind into different nations and scattered them across the face of the earth. That's his original purpose in Gen. 1 - "fill the earth and subdue it."

I don't see that in this verse. You said,

"In Deut. 32:8-9, a reference to the Tower of Babel, God disinherited all nations and allotted them to the "sons of God", therefore "sons of God" are the spiritual beings that govern the pagan nations,"

In the above quote you said God gave the nations to the sons of God. Then you concluded because of this the sons of God are spiritual beings. Where in the passage in this post does it say that God gave the nations to the sons of God? I don't see it. This passage says when God gave the nations their inheritance He fixed the border according to the number of the sons of God. There's nothing there about God giving the nations to the sons of God. There's nothing here about spiritual beings

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I don't see that in this verse. You said,

"In Deut. 32:8-9, a reference to the Tower of Babel, God disinherited all nations and allotted them to the "sons of God", therefore "sons of God" are the spiritual beings that govern the pagan nations,"

In the above quote you said God gave the nations to the sons of God. Then you concluded because of this the sons of God are spiritual beings. Where in the passage in this post does it say that God gave the nations to the sons of God? I don't see it. This passage says when God gave the nations their inheritance He fixed the border according to the number of the sons of God. There's nothing there about God giving the nations to the sons of God. There's nothing here about spiritual beings

"Sons of God - benei elohim has always been a biblical term referring to spiritual beings, in the NT they are known as the "principalities, powers, rulers of darkness" instead of flesh and blood. When Satan tempted Yeshua, in the final temptation he offered all these nations to Yeshua, tell me, where did Satan and all these "sons of God" get these nations? The answer is in Deut 32:8 - THEIR inheritance. Paul held this view in Romans 13:1 - all governing authorities are appointed by God.

You know, it's really frustrating that even pagans understand spiritual warfare, they know that modern warfare is fought with words and bytes more than guns and bombs, and beliefs and ideals are hit before bodies and properties, and you think "spiritual beings“ is a joke.

 

[Butch5]

in the NT they are known as the "principalities, powers, rulers of darkness" instead of flesh and blood. When Satan tempted Yeshua, in the final temptation he offered all these nations to Yeshua, tell me, where did Satan and all these "sons of God" get these nations? The answer is in Deut 32:8 - THEIR inheritance. Paul held this view in Romans 13:1 - all governing authorities are appointed by God.

You know, it's really frustrating that even pagans understand spiritual warfare, they know that modern warfare is fought with words and bytes more than guns and bombs, and beliefs and ideals are hit before bodies and properties, and you think "spiritual beings“ is a joke.

Whoa, hold on. Now you're jumping to spiritual warfare.

You said, "Sons of God - benei elohim has always been a biblical term referring to spiritual beings,"

That's not evidence. As I pointed out, Christians are sons of God. Israelites are sons of God.

The passage you posted doesn't say that the nations were given to spiritual beings as you claim. Here's the passage.

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. (Deut. 32:8-9 KJV)

It says when God divided up the nations. He set the boundries according to the number of the of the sons / children of Isreal. I don't see anything here that says God gave the nations to spiritual beings you're calling the sons of God. Where does it say He gave the nations to anyone.

My friend, I would encourage you, and all others, to avoid paraphrased Bibles like the NLT. They are just opinions of what someone "thinks" the Bible says. The phrase, "sons of God" doesn't appear in that passage. Here is the passage from several translations.

GNV Deuteronomy 32:8 When the most hie God deuided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sonnes of Adam, he appoynted the borders of the people, according to the nomber of the children of Israel.

KJV Deuteronomy 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

NAS Deuteronomy 32:8 "When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, When He separated the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples According to the number of the sons of Israel.

NKJ Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations, When He separated the sons of Adam, He set the boundaries of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.

YLT Deuteronomy 32:8 In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam -- He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel.

These all say the borders were set according to the number of the sons / children of Israel. That's how the Masoretic Text reads.

WTT Deuteronomy 32:8 בְּהַנְחֵ֤ל עֶלְיוֹן֙ גּוֹיִ֔ם בְּהַפְרִיד֖וֹ בְּנֵ֣י אָדָ֑ם יַצֵּב֙ גְּבֻלֹ֣ת עַמִּ֔ים לְמִסְפַּ֖ר בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
(Deut. 32:8 WTT)

The bolded part is what is translated "according to the sons of Israel". לְמִסְפַּ֖ר = according to. בְּנֵ֥י = sons. יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ = Israel.
The Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament, reads the angels of God
LXA Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. (Deut. 32:8 LXA)
Here's the Greek text.
ὅτε διεμέριζεν ὁ ὕψιστος ἔθνη ὡς διέσπειρεν υἱοὺς Αδαμ ἔστησεν ὅρια ἐθνῶν κατὰ ἀριθμὸν ἀγγέλων θεοῦ (Deut. 32:8 BGT)

κατὰ = according to. ἀριθμὸν = number. ἀγγέλων = angels. θεοῦ = God.
The word angelos or angel in English, simply means a messenger. It can be a spiritual being, but it can also be a person. It's simply a messenger. Given how the Hebrew text reads, it would seem pretty clear that these angels, or messengers, are men, the Israelites. However, even if they are spiritual beings they are not, here, called the sons of God, thus this passage does not prove that the sons of God are spiritual beings or that they were given the nations.

How could spiritual beings inherit the nations when they are Christ's inheritance? Here is David prophesying the words of the Lord.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (Ps. 2:1 KJV)

Here God says He will give the nations to Christ. If they are His inheritance, how can they be the inheritance of spiritual beings.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Here God says He will give the nations to Christ. If they are His inheritance, how can they be the inheritance of spiritual beings.

Yes, God WILL give the nations to Christ - and Christ will take all these nations when he returns. Until then, "he who doesn't believe is condemned ALREADY." How? Given up by God to pagan gods, to their vile passions. As a matter of fact, all nations CHOSE to worship their own gods, that included apostate Israel after Solomon, and that's exactly the curse Moses warned about in Deut. 28:64 - "you will serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers know." So, whether you believe that God gave the nations to spiritual beings or not, these spiritual beings did have those nations, and they were in their territories to stay - until Christ drove them out.

And BTW, "sons of God" did appear in that passage in any translation based on the dead sea scrolls. "Children of Israel" from the Masoretic text was adulterated.

 

[Butch5]

Yes, God WILL give the nations to Christ - and Christ will take all these nations when he returns. Until then, "he who doesn't believe is condemned ALREADY." How? Given up by God to pagan gods, to their vile passions. As a matter of fact, all nations CHOSE to worship their own gods, that included apostate Israel after Solomon, and that's exactly the curse Moses warned about in Deut. 28:64 - "you will serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers know." So, whether you believe that God gave the nations to spiritual beings or not, these spiritual beings did have those nations, and they were in their territories to stay - until Christ drove them out.

And BTW, "sons of God" did appear in that passage in any translation based on the dead sea scrolls. "Children of Israel" from the Masoretic text was adulterated.

The passage you posted says nothing of the nation's being given to spiritual beings. Satan had control over the earth because Adam sinned. That's when they took control.

Do you have anything to present from the Dead Sea Scrolls that shows the Masoretic text is corrupt? As I pointed out, the Septuagint uses the phrase, angels of God. But even that does not say sons of God. I tend to give more credence to the Septuagint which leans a little closer to what you've said. However, again it says angels of God, not sons of God.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The passage you posted says nothing of the nation's being given to spiritual beings. Satan had control over the earth because Adam sinned. That's when they took control.

Do you have anything to present from the Dead Sea Scrolls that shows the Masoretic text is corrupt? As I pointed out, the Septuagint uses the phrase, angels of God. But even that does not say sons of God. I tend to give more credence to the Septuagint which leans a little closer to what you've said. However, again it says angels of God, not sons of God.

You can do your own research by looking up Deut. 32:8 in biblegateway.com, there will be a footnote pointing out the discrepancy with the Dead Sea Scroll.

Besides, as I said, it is a fact that spiritual beings are ruling the nations, and God chose Israel as His own people to reclaim the lost nations, that’s the overarching narrative of the whole Bible, Deut. 32:8-9 just confirms that. It’s never about this one passage alone. You can’t see the forest for the trees.

 

[Butch5]

You can do your own research by looking up Deut. 32:8 in biblegateway.com, there will be a footnote pointing out the discrepancy with the Dead Sea Scroll.

Besides, as I said, it is a fact that spiritual beings are ruling the nations, and God chose Israel as His own people to reclaim the lost nations, that’s the overarching narrative of the whole Bible, Deut. 32:8-9 just confirms that. It’s never about this one passage alone. You can’t see the forest for the trees.

So you're not going to back up your claim? Yes, Satan and the demons rule the nations. But that not what you said. You said God gave the the nations to spiritual beings.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

So you're not going to back up your claim? Yes, Satan and the demons rule the nations. But that not what you said. You said God gave the the nations to spiritual beings.

Satan and the demons - "shedim" in the OT, "dainonia" in the NT, are those spiritual beings. They rule the nations only because God gave the nations to them. They have no power or authority of their own, it was GIVEN to them for God's purposes.