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Things that people mistake as being in the Bible

Wait, what? Are you saying these started out as men and became spiritual beings? All of our English copies have biases. It's virtually impossible to completely avoid it. But, if we look at the Greek and Hebrew texts the word "mortal" is not there. Romans 13:1-7 speaks of Christians obey the government. It's not about rulers abusing their power.
When did I say that they "started out as men"? They were always spiritual beings, only you think of them as men. Yes, "mortal" is not there, but when it says "die like men", isn't that the definition of being mortal?

I agree they reign in the nations, but they're not the enemies in this passage.
They are in Eph. 6:12.

You said the passage is referencing spiritual beings. The passage says no such thing, thus the conclusion must be an inference. I agree with your example o reading or watching a series. But, where in the Bbile do we see a statement that says, "the sons of God are demons"? I'm aware of no such statement. Therefore, however that conclusion is drawn it's an inference.
"Gods"/"sons of God" is not a euphemism for human elites or rulers. Moses praised God in Ex. 15:11: "who is like you, O Lord, among the gods?“ Those "gods" are not pharoahs or idols in Egypt, but other spiritual beings in ravalry against God. If you truly agree with my example, you would've known that this term, "gods"/"sons of God" appear quite a lot of times in the OT, and if you want a CONSISTENT definition, then there you have it. You go figure out who the "sons of God" are in Gen. 6:2, and possibly the "us" in Gen. 1:26 and 3:22, then apply it in Job. 1:6, Ps. 82:1 and other passages. As for "demon", that is just the English word for "shedim" and "daimonia", evil spirit.
 
When did I say that they "started out as men"? They were always spiritual beings, only you think of them as men. Yes, "mortal" is not there, but when it says "die like men", isn't that the definition of being mortal?
Yes. However, adding the word "mortal" in front of man implies that the sons of God are not mortal.
They are in Eph. 6:12.
Maybe. But we are aren't discussing Ephesians 6
"Gods"/"sons of God" is not a euphemism for human elites or rulers. Moses praised God in Ex. 15:11: "who is like you, O Lord, among the gods?“ Those "gods" are not pharoahs or idols in Egypt, but other spiritual beings in ravalry against God. If you truly agree with my example, you would've known that this term, "gods"/"sons of God" appear quite a lot of times in the OT, and if you want a CONSISTENT definition, then there you have it. You go figure out who the "sons of God" are in Gen. 6:2, and possibly the "us" in Gen. 1:26 and 3:22, then apply it in Job. 1:6, Ps. 82:1 and other passages. As for "demon", that is just the English word for "shedim" and "daimonia", evil spirit.
Just because the word god refers to a spirit in one place doesn't mean that's the case everywhere.

How can sons of men be angels and take wives of men when Jesus said the angels don't marry?


Matthew 22:29–30 (KJV 1900): 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
 
The sons of God in Gen 6.

Genesis 6:1–3 (KJV 1900): And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Obviously God wasn't happy with the sons of God taking wives from the daughters of men. To show His disproval what does He say? My Spirit shall not always strive with "man". Did He say his Spirit would not always strive with spirits and that their years would be 120? No, He did not. It's obvious from this passage that God not striving with man is the result of the sons of God taking wives of men. If we read just prior to this we see that Seth was born to Eve. Seth had a son Enosh. We're told that in his day that men began to call upon the name of the Lord. So there was a people of God before Gen 6. Thus it seems only logical that these people of God, like the Israelite and the Christians, would be called the sons of God.
 
Here's another thought. The sons of God are claimed to be spirits based on Job 1:6. That's reading the idea back into Genesis. When Moses wrote the Scriptures his first 5 books were the Scriptures. That is what his readers had to go by. The book of Job came along quite a bit later. It's highly doubtful that Moses' readers ever saw, if it existed then, the book of Job when Moses wrote Genesis. So they would have no concept of Job 1:6. They would have to understand the "sons of God" based on what they already knew as Israelites. Base on what Moses wrote.
 
The sons of God in Gen 6.

Genesis 6:1–3 (KJV 1900): And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Obviously God wasn't happy with the sons of God taking wives from the daughters of men. To show His disproval what does He say? My Spirit shall not always strive with "man". Did He say his Spirit would not always strive with spirits and that their years would be 120? No, He did not. It's obvious from this passage that God not striving with man is the result of the sons of God taking wives of men. If we read just prior to this we see that Seth was born to Eve. Seth had a son Enosh. We're told that in his day that men began to call upon the name of the Lord. So there was a people of God before Gen 6. Thus it seems only logical that these people of God, like the Israelite and the Christians, would be called the sons of God.
Here's another thought. The sons of God are claimed to be spirits based on Job 1:6. That's reading the idea back into Genesis. When Moses wrote the Scriptures his first 5 books were the Scriptures. That is what his readers had to go by. The book of Job came along quite a bit later. It's highly doubtful that Moses' readers ever saw, if it existed then, the book of Job when Moses wrote Genesis. So they would have no concept of Job 1:6. They would have to understand the "sons of God" based on what they already knew as Israelites. Base on what Moses wrote.
'And the angels which kept not their first estate,
.. but left their own habitation,
.... He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness
...... unto the judgment of the great day.
........ Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner,
.......... giving themselves over to fornication,
............ and going after strange flesh,
.............. are set forth for an example,
................ suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh,
.. despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
.... Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil
...... he disputed about the body of Moses,
........ durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said,
.......... "The Lord rebuke thee".
............ But these speak evil of those things which they know not:
.............. but what they know naturally, as brute beasts,
................ in those things they corrupt themselves.'
(Jud 1:6-10)

Hello @Butch5,

It is very probable that the book of Job was available to Moses, there is no proof that it was written later. It is believed that Job was the son of Issachar, of Genesis 46:13, and if so would have gone down to Egypt with his father. Possibly born the year after Joseph was born. When he died Moses would have been about fiftyfive, twentyfive years before the Exodus.

* The words, 'took them wives', suggests an intimacy of relation, and that their union was consummated. The angels 'kept not their first estate', and are compared to the men of Sodom, who gave themselves 'over to fornication', and 'went after strange flesh', the words, 'defile the flesh' is also used in this comparison.

* These fallen angels defiled the flesh of the women born to the sons of men, and they gave birth to offspring.
* Our Lord, when quickened into life, while in the grave, went in the spirit, and preached unto those 'spirits' (angels), in prison:-

'By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited
in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls
were saved by water.'
(1 Peter 3:19-20)

* The waters of judgment saved Noah and his sons from the defilement which had come upon those among whom they were living, his pedigree was pure. 'These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect (undefiled) in his generations, and Noah walked with God.'

For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
.. but cast them down to hell,
.... and delivered them into chains of darkness,
...... to be reserved unto judgment;
........ And spared not the old world,
.......... but saved Noah the eighth person,
............ a preacher of righteousness,
.............. bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes
.. condemned them with an overthrow,
.... making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
...... And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
........ (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing,
.......... vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds )
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:'
(2 Pet. 2:4-9)

'There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,
when the sons of God (angels) came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth,
and it grieved Him at His heart.'
(Gen 6:4-6)

* Angels are called, 'sons of God', as Adam was called, a 'son of God', because created by Him.

(sorry done in a rush, very late)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
The sons of God in Gen 6.

Genesis 6:1–3 (KJV 1900): And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Obviously God wasn't happy with the sons of God taking wives from the daughters of men. To show His disproval what does He say? My Spirit shall not always strive with "man". Did He say his Spirit would not always strive with spirits and that their years would be 120? No, He did not. It's obvious from this passage that God not striving with man is the result of the sons of God taking wives of men. If we read just prior to this we see that Seth was born to Eve. Seth had a son Enosh. We're told that in his day that men began to call upon the name of the Lord. So there was a people of God before Gen 6. Thus it seems only logical that these people of God, like the Israelite and the Christians, would be called the sons of God.
'.And to Seth, to him also there was born a son;
and he called his name Enos:
then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.'
(Gen 4:26)

Hello again, @Butch5,

The highlighted words above that you referenced, does not refer to 'worship': because Abel worshipped, and others doubtless, prior to this. Here, men 'began' profanely to call upon the name of Jehovah. Enos is mentioned in this verse, though the son of Seth, in the generations of Cain, because he went, 'in the way of Cain'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Yes. However, adding the word "mortal" in front of man implies that the sons of God are not mortal.

Maybe. But we are aren't discussing Ephesians 6

Just because the word god refers to a spirit in one place doesn't mean that's the case everywhere.

How can sons of men be angels and take wives of men when Jesus said the angels don't marry?


Matthew 22:29–30 (KJV 1900): 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
See, this is a pitfall that has become a stumbling block. First of all, “sons of God” were a kind of spiritual beings above the angels. Angels are servants and messengers, sons of God are God’s divine council. Second, just because angels don’t mate in heaven with other angels doesn’t mean they don’t mate on earth. Every time an angel appeared, either to Abraham, to Daniel, all the way to Mary, it was always in the appearance of a man. Angels don’t marry, but men surely can. Actually, this could be their incentive, being able to do what they don’t and can’t do in heaven.
 
Last edited:
'.And to Seth, to him also there was born a son;
and he called his name Enos:
then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.'
(Gen 4:26)

Hello again, @Butch5,

The highlighted words above that you referenced, does not refer to 'worship': because Abel worshipped, and others doubtless, prior to this. Here, men 'began' profanely to call upon the name of Jehovah. Enos is mentioned in this verse, though the son of Seth, in the generations of Cain, because he went, 'in the way of Cain'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Stay out of there and come out from among them:pensive:
 
The sons of God in Gen 6.

Genesis 6:1–3 (KJV 1900): And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Obviously God wasn't happy with the sons of God taking wives from the daughters of men. To show His disproval what does He say? My Spirit shall not always strive with "man". Did He say his Spirit would not always strive with spirits and that their years would be 120? No, He did not. It's obvious from this passage that God not striving with man is the result of the sons of God taking wives of men. If we read just prior to this we see that Seth was born to Eve. Seth had a son Enosh. We're told that in his day that men began to call upon the name of the Lord. So there was a people of God before Gen 6. Thus it seems only logical that these people of God, like the Israelite and the Christians, would be called the sons of God.
This fails to explain the giants. Normal men don’t breed 10 feet tall giants like Goliath with normal women. The real reason of God’s disapproval is Satan’s disapproval of God’s plan of salvation in Gen. 3:15 - I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between her Seed and your seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel. His strategy to thwart that plan is Gen. 6:2 - nipping it in the bud, go mate with those women first, and create his own demonic seed, the Nephilim.
 
'And the angels which kept not their first estate,
.. but left their own habitation,
.... He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness
...... unto the judgment of the great day.
........ Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner,
.......... giving themselves over to fornication,
............ and going after strange flesh,
.............. are set forth for an example,
................ suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh,
.. despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
.... Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil
...... he disputed about the body of Moses,
........ durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said,
.......... "The Lord rebuke thee".
............ But these speak evil of those things which they know not:
.............. but what they know naturally, as brute beasts,
................ in those things they corrupt themselves.'
(Jud 1:6-10)

Hello @Butch5,

It is very probable that the book of Job was available to Moses, there is no proof that it was written later. It is believed that Job was the son of Issachar, of Genesis 46:13, and if so would have gone down to Egypt with his father. Possibly born the year after Joseph was born. When he died Moses would have been about fiftyfive, twentyfive years before the Exodus.

* The words, 'took them wives', suggests an intimacy of relation, and that their union was consummated. The angels 'kept not their first estate', and are compared to the men of Sodom, who gave themselves 'over to fornication', and 'went after strange flesh', the words, 'defile the flesh' is also used in this comparison.

* These fallen angels defiled the flesh of the women born to the sons of men, and they gave birth to offspring.
* Our Lord, when quickened into life, while in the grave, went in the spirit, and preached unto those 'spirits' (angels), in prison:-

'By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited
in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls
were saved by water.'
(1 Peter 3:19-20)

* The waters of judgment saved Noah and his sons from the defilement which had come upon those among whom they were living, his pedigree was pure. 'These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect (undefiled) in his generations, and Noah walked with God.'

For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
.. but cast them down to hell,
.... and delivered them into chains of darkness,
...... to be reserved unto judgment;
........ And spared not the old world,
.......... but saved Noah the eighth person,
............ a preacher of righteousness,
.............. bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes
.. condemned them with an overthrow,
.... making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
...... And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
........ (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing,
.......... vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds )
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:'
(2 Pet. 2:4-9)

'There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,
when the sons of God (angels) came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth,
and it grieved Him at His heart.'
(Gen 6:4-6)

* Angels are called, 'sons of God', as Adam was called, a 'son of God', because created by Him.

(sorry done in a rush, very late)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Written later than what Chris? Job didn't write the book of Job. It's written about him. The internal evidence suggests a later date. The book makes mention of the land of Israel. Israel didn't exist when Mosese wrote the Torah.

Chris, are you aware that the word angel means messenger? Just because we see the word angel it doesn't necessitate that it's a spiritual being. Men are also called messengers or angels. Jesus is called the angel or messenger of God and He's clearly not one of the created heavenly beings.

Also, if they were spirit beings how is it that their offspring from the women are men? They would be a hybrid of some sort, not men. But, the Scriptures clearly call them men.

Additionally, according to Jesus, the angels don't marry.

In addition to that, Job 1 doesn't says the sons of God are spirit beings, people simply assume that, probably because Satan appears. However, that doesn't prove that the sons of God are spirit beings. Satan also appears in the garden with Adam, Eve, and God. In that instance it's certain that Adam and Eve were human. So Satan appears before God with humans, son and daughter of God, in Genesis 3.
 
This fails to explain the giants. Normal men don’t breed 10 feet tall giants like Goliath with normal women. The real reason of God’s disapproval is Satan’s disapproval of God’s plan of salvation in Gen. 3:15 - I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between her Seed and your seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel. His strategy to thwart that plan is Gen. 6:2 - nipping it in the bud, go mate with those women first, and create his own demonic seed, the Nephilim.
My friend, the giants were already on the earth when the sons of God took wives of the daughters of men.

Genesis 6:4 (KJV 1900): 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
 
My friend, the giants were already on the earth when the sons of God took wives of the daughters of men.
No, my friend, those giants are the result of “sons of God” mating with women in Gen. 6:2. This word, “Nephilim” came from the word “Nephal”, fallen ones. Those giants were the main reason of extreme wickedness that had to be cleansed with the flood.
 
My friend, the giants were already on the earth when the sons of God took wives of the daughters of men.

Genesis 6:4 (KJV 1900): 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
And I must point out, that this "Nephilim" is not a myth or a small, pesky, neglectible detail. The enemy had been spreading this vicious lie about God's character, that He was this ruthless tyrant and scorched-earth genocidal maniac, He exterminated all lives with a flood, then He ordered Joshua to wipe out the entire Canaanite populations. Some churches have even bought this lie, so somehow when it came to the NT, God was changed into a kind and loving father. The truth is, when God made those decisions in the OT, His primary targets were those giants. Those were not people, but descendants of the "sons of God" that oppressed people. God first drowned the giants, then He used the Israelites to finish off the remaining giants, so mankind can be liberated from them. "Mighty men of renoun" is not a compliment.
 
Written later than what Chris? Job didn't write the book of Job. It's written about him. The internal evidence suggests a later date. The book makes mention of the land of Israel. Israel didn't exist when Mosese wrote the Torah.

Chris, are you aware that the word angel means messenger? Just because we see the word angel it doesn't necessitate that it's a spiritual being. Men are also called messengers or angels. Jesus is called the angel or messenger of God and He's clearly not one of the created heavenly beings.

Also, if they were spirit beings how is it that their offspring from the women are men? They would be a hybrid of some sort, not men. But, the Scriptures clearly call them men.

Additionally, according to Jesus, the angels don't marry.

In addition to that, Job 1 doesn't says the sons of God are spirit beings, people simply assume that, probably because Satan appears. However, that doesn't prove that the sons of God are spirit beings. Satan also appears in the garden with Adam, Eve, and God. In that instance it's certain that Adam and Eve were human. So Satan appears before God with humans, son and daughter of God, in Genesis 3.
You just keep denying without any alternative answers. If they were not spiritual beings, then what are the gods that apostate Israel turned to, Baal et al? What are the spirits that Yeshua cast out? Where did they come from? If you think those are just imaginary idols people made up in their heads, you're greatly mistaken.
 
Written later than what Chris? Job didn't write the book of Job. It's written about him. The internal evidence suggests a later date. The book makes mention of the land of Israel. Israel didn't exist when Mosese wrote the Torah.

Chris, are you aware that the word angel means messenger? Just because we see the word angel it doesn't necessitate that it's a spiritual being. Men are also called messengers or angels. Jesus is called the angel or messenger of God and He's clearly not one of the created heavenly beings.

Also, if they were spirit beings how is it that their offspring from the women are men? They would be a hybrid of some sort, not men. But, the Scriptures clearly call them men.

Additionally, according to Jesus, the angels don't marry.

In addition to that, Job 1 doesn't says the sons of God are spirit beings, people simply assume that, probably because Satan appears. However, that doesn't prove that the sons of God are spirit beings. Satan also appears in the garden with Adam, Eve, and God. In that instance it's certain that Adam and Eve were human. So Satan appears before God with humans, son and daughter of God, in Genesis 3.
Hello @Butch5,

My response to your posts (replies #83 & #84) in reply #85, is the expression of what I believe concerning these things: and the reference to the timing of the book of Job was raised by you in reply#84, to which I gave response in my reply.

I acknowledge the further points you have raised in defence of your position in regard to these things, but I have no problem with the Biblical record, and am happy to simply believe what I read in regard to these things. So, forgive me if I do not pursue this further.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
No, my friend, those giants are the result of “sons of God” mating with women in Gen. 6:2. This word, “Nephilim” came from the word “Nephal”, fallen ones. Those giants were the main reason of extreme wickedness that had to be cleansed with the flood.
Look at the passage. In those days there were giants and afterward. In the days that the sons of God took wives of the women of men, there were giants. That's what the passage says. If the giants were already there when the sons of God took wives from the women of men it's not possible that they could be their offspring.
 
And I must point out, that this "Nephilim" is not a myth or a small, pesky, neglectible detail. The enemy had been spreading this vicious lie about God's character, that He was this ruthless tyrant and scorched-earth genocidal maniac, He exterminated all lives with a flood, then He ordered Joshua to wipe out the entire Canaanite populations. Some churches have even bought this lie, so somehow when it came to the NT, God was changed into a kind and loving father. The truth is, when God made those decisions in the OT, His primary targets were those giants. Those were not people, but descendants of the "sons of God" that oppressed people. God first drowned the giants, then He used the Israelites to finish off the remaining giants, so mankind can be liberated from them. "Mighty men of renoun" is not a compliment.
"Mighty men of renoun" keyword Men. Not hybrids, not spirits, but men.
 
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