This is shocking what this pastor said about Heaven...

[Sue D.]

@ Rhema -- what Bible do you use that doesn't include the book of Revelation?

 

[B-A-C]

what Bible do you use that doesn't include the book of Revelation?

Some Eastern Orthodox denominations didn't recognize Revelation up until the 4th century, but all of them have accepted it for last 1500 years that I'm aware of.

 

[Rhema]

You would have the responsibility to prove that.

To prove that Revelation is not in our canon???? Okeay, here's the proof - It's not in our canon. The statement is to be taken as proof. How would you prove that Revelation IS in your canon? (You'd tell me.)

@ Rhema -- what Bible do you use that doesn't include the book of Revelation?

Hi Sue,

The Aramaic New Testament of the Church of the East.

I provide you with a LINK to the online NT. Please note the books that are not present. The Apostle Thomas rejected Revelation, as had innumerable Bishops even up until the time of the council of Nicaea and beyond. The book of Revelation wound up in your Bible because of one man - Athanasius the Bishop of Alexandria (Egypt).

TheAramaicScriptures.com

The Holy Aramaic Scriptures: With a literal English translation and transliteration of The Eastern Peshitta New Testament Text, such as given in The Khabouris Codex.

www.thearamaicscriptures.com

I also provide a link to a website listing the various canons down from the start of the church. It isn't the prettiest, but it has all the information one might need. The list of the NT books as you know it was first penned in 367AD. The approving church council that established the canon was the THIRD SYNOD OF CARTHACE (A.D. 397).

The Canon of the Bible: Various councils, synods and canons

Some Eastern Orthodox denominations

The Church of the East is NOT Eastern Orthodox. (Struggling to keep his temper... )

Eastern Orthodox churches are from the Eastern Part of the Roman Empire that grew into the Byzantine Empire. The Church of the East was started by the Apostle Thomas when he went into the Parthian Empire, now known as Iraq, then Iran, and then down to the west coast of India so that he could witness to the rather large community of Jews there who were engaged in trade.

One might think of it as the Church of the (far) East.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

o prove that Revelation is not in our canon???? Okeay, here's the proof - It's not in our canon. The statement is to be taken as proof. How would you prove that Revelation IS in your canon? (You'd tell me.)

Sorry....that's not proof at all

 

[Rhema]

Sorry....that's not proof at all

??? Then one should rightly wonder what you might mean by "proof."

So give me an example. Is the book of Revelation in your canon? Prove it. Prove it too me.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

??? Then one should rightly wonder what you might mean by "proof."

So give me an example. Is the book of Revelation in your canon? Prove it. Prove it too me.

Thanks,
Rhema

Don't flip it back on me..YOU said that Revelation is not canon. Give solid evidence that proves your statement instead of acting like a child, stamping his foot and demanding that everyone falls into line with your story

 

[Rhema]

YOU said that Revelation is not canon.

No. And yes. Here is what I said:

(Would this be a good time to mention that the book of Revelation is not in our canon?)

It's not in OUR canon. I had said nothing about YOUR canon, nor did I say THE canon.

So to clarify, indeed Revelation is not canon for the Church of the East. It's not in our canon. Would you rather I had said, "that the book of Revelation is not in the canon of our church?" I hadn't thought my initial statement could be so misconstrued, or I would have written something else.

I also provided reasons above as to why it is not in our canon. I hope that suffices.

God bless,
Rhema

acting like a child, stamping his foot and demanding that everyone falls into line with your story

Please send me a PM giving an example of what "demanding" you think that I've done. It would be most welcome, because I'm pretty sure you're seeing things in an "odd" light.

 

[Bill Taylor]

No. And yes. Here is what I said:

It's not in OUR canon. I had said nothing about YOUR canon, nor did I say THE canon.

So to clarify, indeed Revelation is not canon for the Church of the East. It's not in our canon. Would you rather I had said, "that the book of Revelation is not in the canon of our church?" I hadn't thought my initial statement could be so misconstrued, or I would have written something else.

I also provided reasons above as to why it is not in our canon. I hope that suffices.

God bless,
Rhema


Please send me a PM giving an example of what "demanding" you think that I've done. It would be most welcome, because I'm pretty sure you're seeing things in an "odd" light.

word games... childish and petty waste of thought

 

[Rhema]

word games... childish and petty waste of thought

How useless a post.

@Admon Mikha'el misunderstood what I wrote, so I clarified. Why would you feel the need to hurl out an insult for that?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

While we sometimes can be misunderstood, the 'we' has at minimum, two parts.

As one might try to be understood, so likewise, the other(s) might try to understand...
even more so as recipients and lights of God's grace.

Post in Peace
or do not post.

Name calling and belittling does not become those who are His.

We can do better through His strength made perfect in our weaknesses.
The LORD rewards them that seek Him. Only let them do so with their whole heart, unfeigned love for the brethren.

We all need what God has for us provided.

Jesus Christ is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

The Church of the East is NOT Eastern Orthodox. (Struggling to keep his temper... )

Nor was it meant to be, take it up with these sites.

Development of the New Testament canon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Book of Revelation - Questions & Answers

I have a variety of concerns with regard to the Book of Revelation.

www.oca.org

Is the Book of Revelation Canonical in the Orthodox Church? - The Whole Counsel Blog

To ask in the present day whether or not any book of the New Testament is truly canonical in the Orthodox Church may seem odd. While the history of the canonization process of the Old and New Testaments took place over several centuries and is neither neat nor tidy, it is an issue, particularly...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

The Formation of the New Testament Canon

The term “canon” used with reference to the Bible means the collection of books which are received as divinely inspired and therefore authoritative for faith and life. The recognition of the canon of…

www.theologymatters.com

This site however simply says "Eastern church"

2.10 - Acceptance into the Canon | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

Then there are articles such as this, which seem to say they are one, and they merged somewhere along the way.

Church of the East - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rhema]

Nor was it meant to be, take it up with these sites.

Never said it was. But everybody now thinks they're a genius because of the internet.

This site however simply says "Eastern church"

I'm sure the guy from Austin Texas (or whomever Tony Garland is) is a wonderful man, but to omit the major scholar of the development of the New Testament Canon (Dr. Bruce Metzger) should raise some credible flags of concern.

The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development…

Completing his New Testament trilogy, eminent theologia…

www.goodreads.com

Then there are articles such as this, which seem to say they are one, and they merged somewhere along the way.

From my direct experience, Wikipedia has a 25% error rate. (It most certainly isn't inerrant.)

And as far as ministries "merging" is concerned ... all of them fall along the wayside when "new fangled thoughts" or monetary pressures come along. Look at what just happened to the United Methodist Church. Hillside? And the rather significant number of overt lesbian ministers in the Lutheran Evangelical Church of America. Whatever has happened in the last century still doesn't change the fact that the Apostle Thomas rejected the Book of Revelation. I already posted a chart of the schisms in our church over the last century.

Your friendly neighborhood heretic,
Rhema

This site however simply says "Eastern church"

Yes, NOT Eastern ORTHODOX. The Eastern Orthodox is Eastern because the Orthodox Church was rooted in the Eastern Roman Empire. The Church of the East was planted in the Parthian Empire, and was therefore in the EAST when the Roman Empire was not east and west. Again, consider it the Church of the Far East. (Middle East? ... Far Middle East? ... East Middle East?)

 

[KingJ]

At about 21:50 through 23:55 he starts saying some shocking things like
"Heaven is not the best place for you"
He then says in the book of Revelation the saints who are in Heaven are "weeping"
"The resurrection is designed to get you out of Heaven"
"God does not want you with him forever because it is not in your best interest for you to be with Him"
"You need to read Revelation 21"
"The Bible ends on Earth"

If you all don't mind please watch the whole video just so you can really understand the whole message of what all he is saying but this part was just very shocking to me and I have a hard time understanding or believing these things. How can it be better to be on Earth with all of the horrible things that happen? And with all the horrible evil wicked people we have to live on Earth with? Someone please help me with this and help me understand.

Just to get back on topic.

There are many that have very odd teachings on heaven. Every topic can be a victim of cherry picked scriptures and heaven is no exception.

All those phrases you quoted are easily debunked. Is there a passage that you are unsure of?

It is impossible to avoid all false teaching. Today you have to study for yourself.

God loves us 10/10 John 15:13, no greater act of love then to lay your life down. Yet someone says ''not in our best interest to be with Him'' .

 

[chihuahua14]

Just to get back on topic.

There are many that have very odd teachings on heaven. Every topic can be a victim of cherry picked scriptures and heaven is no exception.

All those phrases you quoted are easily debunked. Is there a passage that you are unsure of?

It is impossible to avoid all false teaching. Today you have to study for yourself.

God loves us 10/10 John 15:13, no greater act of love then to lay your life down. Yet someone says ''not in our best interest to be with Him'' .

Yeah I didn't realize I was listening to a false teacher I no longer listen to him. He says a lot of really strange stuff. You just have to be careful who you listen to! I guess we will all find out about Heaven and the afterlife after we die!

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Ask Copeland why Peter said Christ was put to death in the flesh, but he says Christ was put to death in the spirit.

Ask him where he finds any of that in Scripture.