True biblical Christianity

[Sue D.]

Jesus Christ is the foundation of our faith -- His birth, death, burial and bodily resurrection -- prophesied in Isaiah 7 and fulfilled in Matthew.

A believer is Not restricted / bound to the old testament laws for their salvation. For it is by grace that we are saved -- not of ourselves -- not by works -- (bound by any laws) -- God's grace -- our faith.

Jesus Christ's death and bodily resurrection Freed us from the laws. We obey God out of love -- we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and then our neighbor as ourselves.

Jesus Christ Paid it All -- no amount of works on our part will have any place in helping us get to heaven.

Happy Thanksgiving -- that Jesus paid it all -- His blood has been sufficient.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@bibleguy

The point is, His disciples did not have to eat on the sabbath day, right? It is only one day. They could fast a day if they had not prepared the day before the sabbath for their meals on the sabbath but they did not. Jesus being God would certainly has provided the food if He had so wanted to in order to prevent His disciples from doing work for their food that sabbath day.

But Jesus allowed it; because He was with them. Jesus is allowing YOU because He is in you and is with you always. That is how and why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath. By profaning the sabbath, you are looking to Him His righteousness in bringing you Home; You are representing His righteousness apart from the law as being able to bring you Home even though you are profaning the sabbath.

As for James's faith without works; James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in James 2nd chapter and it has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ. It has a lot to do with the church abuse of the poor where in one place, they would give a benediction to the poor "be warm and be filled" as if applying faith in God's Providence to the poor will make it happen. It is in the eyes of the poor, that the church's faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor. James referred to Abraham and Isaac of that well know Jewish story that left a name at that special place as Jehovah-Jireh which loosely translated as "God provides for His servants". That is the only kind of faith James was talking about in having works because the church was applying faith in God's providence to the poor to get our of helping the poor. James was calling that church out to lead by example by meeting the immediate needs of the poor after church service from what they had gathered from the bounty collected during service.

James was in no wise implying that faith in Jesus Christ has to come with works for salvation. James was just rebuking the church for their abuse and mistreatment of the poor if you read that whole chapter from the beginning of 2nd chapter.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Jesus Christ is the foundation of our faith -- His birth, death, burial and bodily resurrection -- prophesied in Isaiah 7 and fulfilled in Matthew.

A believer is Not restricted / bound to the old testament laws for their salvation. For it is by grace that we are saved -- not of ourselves -- not by works -- (bound by any laws) -- God's grace -- our faith.

Jesus Christ's death and bodily resurrection Freed us from the laws. We obey God out of love -- we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and then our neighbor as ourselves.

For those having trouble this Thanksgiving.... place your hope in Jesus Christ to give you the love you need to love others.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

In my life, it seems it would be best for me to stay away from people in order for me to live peaceably with all men as past expereinces seems to indicate and I would be stupid to keep going, expecting a different result. I get it. I am pond scum. It is ridiculous to reason with people I love and even strangers when they judge me by a standard they are not under themselves, especially when my enemies seem to strive with defamating my character in sowing discord.

Lord help me, it seems I am a hypocrite, but I trust Him to lead me otherwise because I believe by His words, this is the best course of action for me to take in order for me to live peaceably with all men in His love in me for others. That way I prevent my enemies to use me as a means to offend and hurt others in sowing discord between me and those others. They make sport of me and treat me like a joke and a dummy, but thanks to Jesus, I forgive them for they know not what they do. I trust Him that I do forgive them so that when He brings us all Home, I will be happy to see them because Jesus has made them perfect too as He would do for me too.

Jesus Christ Paid it All -- no amount of works on our part will have any place in helping us get to heaven.

Happy Thanksgiving -- that Jesus paid it all -- His blood has been sufficient.

Thanks , Sue. I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving too today.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Lord help me, it seems I am a hypocrite, but I trust Him to lead me otherwise because I believe by His words, this is the best course of action for me to take in order for me to live peaceably with all men in His love in me for others. That way I prevent my enemies to use me as a means to offend and hurt others in sowing discord between me and those others. They make sport of me and treat me like a joke and a dummy, but thanks to Jesus, I forgive them for they know not what they do. I trust Him that I do forgive them so that when He brings us all Home, I will be happy to see them because Jesus has made them perfect too as He would do for me too.

It seems the Lord is directing my path to the environment that may result in my suffering grief again. Alas, He is with me always to help me through it, even carry me if need be. That is how much He has worked in me to trust Him for that.

Psalm 23:1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

 

[Sue D.]

I was just reviewing the thread -- apparently you're strong on the Torah and Sabbath keeping. Correct?! Now -- why do you feel you're being led to suffer grief again. And in a previous post you've suggested it's better for you to live apart from others in order to live peacefully with all men As Much As Possible. Would you mind telling me a little about yourself?

 

[Sue D.]

In other words -- why do you feel you're a hypocrite?

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I was just reviewing the thread -- apparently you're strong on the Torah and Sabbath keeping. Correct?!

Nope. I think you got me confused with someone else.

Now -- why do you feel you're being led to suffer grief again. And in a previous post you've suggested it's better for you to live apart from others in order to live peacefully with all men As Much As Possible. Would you mind telling me a little about yourself?

I have enemies that sow discord among people and relatives. As much as I try to avoid being used as a means of offending others, The Lord is leading me to bear grief "if it should come", once more.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

In other words -- why do you feel you're a hypocrite?

Well, most family gatherings do not have people dedicated to sowing discord among the family members and although we are to bear grief, forgive them for they know not what they do, and love others, it just seems like in order to live peaceably with all men as it lies with me to do... would be to stay away. In that I feel like a hypocrite, but the Lord is leading me otherwise. I know the Lord will carry me through it if grief and offenses should come, but I'd rather not make people uncomfortable by being there just so my enemies begin anew with sowing discord however they can. It was just getting old with me is all, but Jesus is Lord. He shall help me love others regardless of what I cannot control.

 

[Sue D.]

Nope. I think you got me confused with someone else.



I have enemies that sow discord among people and relatives. As much as I try to avoid being used as a means of offending others, The Lord is leading me to bear grief "if it should come", once more.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Well -- as close as I can tell -- it's either you or 'bibleguy'.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Well -- as close as I can tell -- it's either you or 'bibleguy'.

bibleguy is the one you were thinking of then.

I believe I am guiltless for profaning the sabbath day and Jesus had explained why in Matthew 12:1-7 KJV because He is in me and with me always as my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit now for how I am guiltless, thanks to Jesus Christ.

 

[Sue D.]

mAYBE IT MEANS THAT gOD CREATED THE SABBATH AND HIS SON CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS ON THAT DAY. pLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS. mY KEYBOARD IS all messed up. tHE ONLY WAY i CAN GET SMALL LETTERS PRESENTLY is by holding down the shift key. nOT an easy way to type.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

mAYBE IT MEANS THAT gOD CREATED THE SABBATH AND HIS SON CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS ON THAT DAY.

It is certainly applicable since He is Lord of the sabbath and the sabbath is not lord over Him, but this has to deal with the defense for His disciples as well as all believers in Jesus Christ in that He is greater than the Temple and since He is in us and with us always is why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath as the Old Testament saints were guiltless for profaning the sabbath because they were in the temple when they had done it. Plus, since our bodies are the temple of God where the Holy Spirit dwells as per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 , then because of what Jesus Christ has done for us and His righteousness in us apart from the law is why we are guiltless in that regards too.

pLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS. mY KEYBOARD IS all messed up. tHE ONLY WAY i CAN GET SMALL LETTERS PRESENTLY is by holding down the shift key. nOT an easy way to type.

I had noticed that when it happens to me, but fortunately, He led me to figure it out that I had accidentally hit the CAPS LOCK key above the shift key on the left side of my key board. So if you hit that CAPS LOCK key one more time, it should put it back to normal for your typing pleasure.

 

[bibleguy]

Jesus Christ is the foundation of our faith -- His birth, death, burial and bodily resurrection -- prophesied in Isaiah 7 and fulfilled in Matthew.

A believer is Not restricted / bound to the old testament laws for their salvation. For it is by grace that we are saved -- not of ourselves -- not by works -- (bound by any laws) -- God's grace -- our faith.

Jesus Christ's death and bodily resurrection Freed us from the laws. We obey God out of love -- we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and then our neighbor as ourselves.

Jesus Christ Paid it All -- no amount of works on our part will have any place in helping us get to heaven.

Happy Thanksgiving -- that Jesus paid it all -- His blood has been sufficient.

Hi!

You wrote: "Jesus Christ's death and bodily resurrection Freed us from the laws. We obey God out of love -- we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and then our neighbor as ourselves."

My response: I'm VERY glad you uphold Dt. 6:4-5 and Lev. 19:18.....but those are LAWS!

And, you stated that we are "freed" from the laws.

So which is it?

Should we obey laws or not?

It can't be both!

blessings...

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy

The point is, His disciples did not have to eat on the sabbath day, right? It is only one day. They could fast a day if they had not prepared the day before the sabbath for their meals on the sabbath but they did not. Jesus being God would certainly has provided the food if He had so wanted to in order to prevent His disciples from doing work for their food that sabbath day.

But Jesus allowed it; because He was with them. Jesus is allowing YOU because He is in you and is with you always. That is how and why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath. By profaning the sabbath, you are looking to Him His righteousness in bringing you Home; You are representing His righteousness apart from the law as being able to bring you Home even though you are profaning the sabbath.

As for James's faith without works; James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in James 2nd chapter and it has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ. It has a lot to do with the church abuse of the poor where in one place, they would give a benediction to the poor "be warm and be filled" as if applying faith in God's Providence to the poor will make it happen. It is in the eyes of the poor, that the church's faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor. James referred to Abraham and Isaac of that well know Jewish story that left a name at that special place as Jehovah-Jireh which loosely translated as "God provides for His servants". That is the only kind of faith James was talking about in having works because the church was applying faith in God's providence to the poor to get our of helping the poor. James was calling that church out to lead by example by meeting the immediate needs of the poor after church service from what they had gathered from the bounty collected during service.

James was in no wise implying that faith in Jesus Christ has to come with works for salvation. James was just rebuking the church for their abuse and mistreatment of the poor if you read that whole chapter from the beginning of 2nd chapter.

Hi there!

You wrote: "The point is, His disciples did not have to eat on the sabbath day, right? It is only one day."

My response: Of course they did not HAVE TO eat on the sabbath. But that doesn't prove it was against Torah for them to do so.

Of course they could fast if they chose to do so, but that doesn't prove it was against Torah for them to eat on Sabbath.

Of course Jesus could miraculously provide food if He wanted to do so, but this doesn't prove it was against Torah for the disciples to eat on Sabbath.


You wrote: "But Jesus allowed it; because He was with them."

My response: Jesus does NOT allow sin! Jesus does NOT allow His disciples to disobey Torah. Jesus COMMANDS Torah-obedience (Mt. 5:19-20; 23:2-3,23,34).

The disciples were not permitted to eat on the Sabbath merely because "He was with them". Rather, they were permitted to eat on the Sabbath but Torah does not prohibit them from doing so, and it was good for them to do so.


You wrote: "Jesus is allowing YOU because He is in you and is with you always."

My response: Jesus does NOT allow sin! Jesus does NOT allow His disciples to disobey Torah. Jesus COMMANDS Torah-obedience (Mt. 5:19-20; 23:2-3,23,34).

Jesus does NOT allow me to disobey Lev. 11 (Dt. 14) merely beecause "He is in me and with me always".

After all, Peter APPLIES Lev. 11 to YOU! (1 Pe. 1:16)


You wrote: "That is how and why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath."

My response: We are guiltless for profaning the Sabbath only if there is a higher Torah law which we are obeying which justifies the profaning.

Also, we could be guiltless for profaning the Sabbath if we profane in ignorance (after all, the Torah makes provision for sins committed in ignorance).


You wrote: :"By profaning the sabbath, you are looking to Him His righteousness in bringing you Home; You are representing His righteousness apart from the law as being able to bring you Home even though you are profaning the sabbath."

My response: Sure, IF you are looking to obey Jesus (who requires Torah), and IF some higher Torah law justifies profaning the Sabbath in some particular case, then sure, His righteousness is sufficient to bring us Home.

But that's no excuse to ignore the Torah Jesus commanded! (Mt. 23:2-3,23,34).

And that's no excuse to ignore your obligation to exhibit a GREATER measure of Torah-obedient righteousness than that exhibited by the corrupted Pharisees (Mt. 5:20). In fact, you MUST do better at Torah than the Pharisees, or else you will not inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt. 5:20).


You wrote: "James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in James 2nd chapter and it has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ."

My response: Oops! Read James 2:1. It PROVES that James had faith in Jesus Christ in mind! You better retract your false claim that it "has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ".


You wrote: "James was in no wise implying that faith in Jesus Christ has to come with works for salvation."

My response: I disagree. FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST (Jas. 2:1) is DEAD (Jas. 2:17) if it "has no works" (Jas. 2:17). That's the context of the chapter. The issue of the poor people (or favoritism, or whatever) is simply an instantiation of this general principle.

PAUL opposes works without faith.
JAMES opposes faith without works.

What shall we do? BOTH! FAITH AND WORKS!

We shall do the SAME thing that ABRAHAM did! Abraham was righteous by FAITH (Ge. 15:6), AND Abraham obeyed the TORAHS (laws) available to him (Ge. 26:5).

Abraham obeyed Torah available to him (Ge. 26:5), and Jesus COMMANDS that we likewise do the WORKS of Abraham (Jn. 8:39).

Or do you oppose the Biblical Jesus who requires works? (Jn. 8:39; Mt. 5:19-20; 23:2-3,23,34)


You wrote: "James was just rebuking the church..."

My response: The CHURCH is ISRAEL! TORAH is given to Israel (Mal. 4:4). Torah is, thus, given to YOU.


blessings...

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Hi there!

You wrote: "The point is, His disciples did not have to eat on the sabbath day, right? It is only one day."

My response: Of course they did not HAVE TO eat on the sabbath. But that doesn't prove it was against Torah for them to do so.

Of course they could fast if they chose to do so, but that doesn't prove it was against Torah for them to eat on Sabbath.

Of course Jesus could miraculously provide food if He wanted to do so, but this doesn't prove it was against Torah for the disciples to eat on Sabbath.

Seems like Jesus was defending His disciples by pointing out those that did profane the sabbath but are guiltless because they were in the Temple. It had nothing to do with eating when it was not lawful for them to eat.

You wrote: "James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in James 2nd chapter and it has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ."

My response: Oops! Read James 2:1. It PROVES that James had faith in Jesus Christ in mind! You better retract your false claim that it "has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ".

In the context of the church's abuse of the poor, when the church was getting out of helping the poor by verbalizing their faith in "God's Providence" to the departing poor after service "be warmed and be filled", that was when it was not about faith in Jesus Christ but about God's Providence. That was why in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's providence was dead and will not profit the poor nor save the poor when the church refuses to lead by example by meeting the immediate needs of the poor from the bounty collected after church service and apply faith in God that He has provided more than enough for the church to still operate on.

You wrote: "James was in no wise implying that faith in Jesus Christ has to come with works for salvation."

My response: I disagree. FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST (Jas. 2:1) is DEAD (Jas. 2:17) if it "has no works" (Jas. 2:17). That's the context of the chapter. The issue of the poor people (or favoritism, or whatever) is simply an instantiation of this general principle.

PAUL opposes works without faith.
JAMES opposes faith without works.

What shall we do? BOTH! FAITH AND WORKS!

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

We shall do the SAME thing that ABRAHAM did! Abraham was righteous by FAITH (Ge. 15:6), AND Abraham obeyed the TORAHS (laws) available to him (Ge. 26:5).

Not seeing that here.

Romans 4:What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Abraham obeyed Torah available to him (Ge. 26:5), and Jesus COMMANDS that we likewise do the WORKS of Abraham (Jn. 8:39).

Or do you oppose the Biblical Jesus who requires works? (Jn. 8:39; Mt. 5:19-20; 23:2-3,23,34)

I believe you are misreading Him. He was asked that question and He gave this answer;

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I do not see anything about obey the Torah here.

You wrote: "James was just rebuking the church..."

My response: The CHURCH is ISRAEL! TORAH is given to Israel (Mal. 4:4). Torah is, thus, given to YOU.

blessings...

No. The gospel of Jesus Christ has been given to us. Here is what I read about why Gentiles were not to concern themselves with the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

I really believe you need to read the KJV with Jesus Christ in order for you to prove or disprove your beliefs about the believers needing to "obey" the Torah.

 

[Sue D.]

A person can read the same thing in a NKJ version. "Not Of Works" so that no one can be / sound boastful that 'he' did such and such in order to gain his salvation.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

A person can read the same thing in a NKJ version. "Not Of Works" so that no one can be / sound boastful that 'he' did such and such in order to gain his salvation.

Except in the NKJV regarding 1 Corinthians 1:18 when those that error, will use that verse as proof that believers are in the process of being saved and so that is why regardless of other verses in the NKJV, they will doubt those verses testifying to salvation without works and play it safe by looking to works to gain their salvation since they are going with errant verses that are selected out to support false teachings that implies they are in the process of being saved.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. NKJV

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. KJV

This is why I rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words, as in the actual message He wants us to have to discern good and evil by in these latter days when faith is hard to find.

 

[Sue D.]

You Do realize that the KJV was translated from original language through Latin and then to whatever language a person speaks or reads. And the KJV is a combination of other Bibles. So -- even It is not directly from God's lips to our eyes / ears.

There is very little difference in the two verses. I grew up in KJV -- spent many years in it -- and gravitated to the old NIV and the NKJ.

The term sanctification means that salvation is a process of growing spiritually.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

You Do realize that the KJV was translated from original language through Latin and then to whatever language a person speaks or reads. And the KJV is a combination of other Bibles. So -- even It is not directly from God's lips to our eyes / ears.

There is very little difference in the two verses. I grew up in KJV -- spent many years in it -- and gravitated to the old NIV and the NKJ.

When correcting the many false teachings that are out there, I find the KJV is the one to rely on for the meat of His words which is why I had stopped reading the NASB & the NIV because errant verses were supporting false teachings and apostasy.

One example is how John 16:13 in all Bible versions says the Holy Spirit can only speak what He hears and yet even though the NIV cites that truth, in Romans 8:26-27 , it is the complete opposite of that truth in John 16:13 as if the Holy Spirit can utter His groans whereas the KJV states that not even His groanings can be uttered in Romans 8:26 KJV But because of Romans 8:26-27 in the NIV, believers will doubt John 16:13 in the NIV that Jesus really meant what He has said.

And so modern Bibles support false teaching and a unBiblical superntaural tongue which is of the world that the Holy Spirit can use tongues for private use as a covert prayer language rather than for speaking in other men's lips to speak unto the people as prophesied in His law to do in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 KJV .

The term sanctification means that salvation is a process of growing spiritually.

I disagree. The term sanctification can be applied to discipleship as a process of growing spiritually in our walk with Him in the light.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

BUT we had received the promised sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel;

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So there is a big difference between a verse that implies we are in the process of being saved as opposed to the verse that testifies that we has been saved since we had come to & believed in Jesus Christ so we can tell others the Good News in Jesus Christ now.

 

[Sue D.]

Every Bible contains Scriptural guidelines for speaking in tongues. Your comment about the use of tongues -- aul said he'd Rather speak so that everyone could hear and immediately understand what he was saying. But -- he even mentioned a personal private prayer language. It's more a person's personal preference rather than Scriptural guidelines. There was an Hispanic older couple in a church we'd been at. They were both believers -- in their home, they used their own private prayer language and were blessed by that. They said they'd never practice that in church or in a group because people would not understand.

So -- we'll simply agree to disagree.