unequally yoked -- Prayer request

[Trevor]

Paul and Ploughboy, I apologise for my forthrightness but, with a couple of battlers like you, sometimes hard talking is necessary. We obviously vehemently disagree on certain scriptures but it's not my place to judge you and If I have appeared to, forgive me, but I haven't. I wouldn't dare.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Dear Trevor

No apology needed my friend, I mean that sincerely, you are a much loved brother. My heart was troubled regarding your initial post, not for you my friend, but for others misreading what you put. So if I upset you or Helen I do apologise. I have explained my reasons.

That said I do know where you were coming from, regarding two coming together, that is a man and a woman, in marriage, both in scripture and in human law. But it is a debateable topic also, which so often draws two camps of thinking.

First things first, like Adam and Eve, when they came together and had sex together they were married to one another in the sight of God. The two becoming one body. But then we have the law through Moses, in which he also allowed divorce, and as stated Jesus said... it was not like that from the beginning.

Now to understand this fully, of which I welcome you to go further, as per your initial statement, which I felt didn't give enough details and could mislead readers, to think people don't have to get married, something we should always be careful of. I am sure you agree.

On the basis just mentioned, when a man and women, of any age come together and have sex, the two become one body and are married in the sight of God, now people should consider this very carefully, random sex, one night stands, even short relationships would constitute that of marriage because the two became one body through sex.

So if they have sex on any basis other than that of looking at it as a lifetime commitment, they are sinning, and when they break up it is equivalent to divorce. So when they go with another person, they are already adulterers.

Now your parents would not come into that category, because they were together for life.

It is a delicate subject as you know Trevor, never once did I point a wrong finger, I made a point for a reason, that reason was in love, it was in love because of my concern it could be so easily misread.

I welcome your comments brother, add the jig saw pieces to the puzzle as it were to show the fuller picture.

Bless you.

 

[PloughBoy]

That is why we have to practice righteousness brother

Yep

 

[Curtis]

As long as a person is living in a physical fleshly body they will still have sin in the flesh! The body is so corrupt it can never be fixed it can only be replaced with a spiritual body.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Just the fact that we all still have the lusts of the flesh to deal with shows that sin is still alive in the flesh!

This is why if we say we have no sin we lie and do not the truth! (1 John 1:8)

The Apostle John said.....

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we have no sin why would we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin?

 

[Brother-Paul]

As stated yesterday in post #42

I do know where you were coming from, regarding two coming together, that is a man and a woman, in marriage, both in scripture and in human law. But it is a debateable topic also, which so often draws two camps of thinking.

Having briefly covered the first option which is two coming together, a man and a woman, having sex, become one body through sex, before marriage, in marriage and not getting married at all.

I would now like to share the other option, and welcome comments for all on both sides of the fence as it were.

The first thing I would comment on is that of Jesus' first miracle at a 'wedding feast' at Canaan in Galilee.

This being His first miracle, and it being a wedding feast, is full of importance for us I believe. We could say that is was the start of His ministry, pointing to the end, when we will be invited, as born again brethren to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. But again I feel Love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage, marriage and love are very important in God's eyes.

So I ask, with this importance in mind, what was a wedding like at the time of Jesus?

If we search the KJV Bible for marriage we will find, 19 occurrences, 2 are in the OT, the other 17 are in the NT.
We are given 3 words in the Strong's Dictionary, NT, they are marriage, marry and feast. <G1062>, <G1547>, <G1548>

<G1062> comes up the most times and means... marriage, wedding, feast
<G1547> comes up just 6 times and means... marriage
<G1548> comes up 2 times and means... marriage

These references can refer to - marriage, marry, feast and given in marriage.

This gives us a very clear starting point, that a wedding, is the marriage of a man and woman, and they have a wedding feast.

What was a wedding like at the time of our Lord? Certainly different to the world today, particularly the western methods and styles.

In this marriage procedure, all these stages are replicated in our Lord's Church, which He describes himself as the bridegroom, all born again believers as His bride, and of course the invitation to the Wedding Feast which all saved souls are invited to.

The traditional Jewish Wedding at the times of Jesus.

1 - There is the marriage covenant - The father pays for the bride and establishes the marriage covenant.

Further reading Acts 20:28; 1 Cor 6:19-20; 1 Cor 11:25; Eph 5:25-27

2 - The Bridal Chamber is Prepared - The son returns to his father’s house and prepares the bridal chamber.

Further reading John 6:62; John 14:2; Acts 1:9-11

3 - The Bride is Fetched - At a time determined by the father (Matt 24:36), the groom fetches the bride to bring her to his father’s house. “Although the bride was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not know the time of his coming. As a result, the groom’s arrival was preceded by a shout, which forewarned the bride to be prepared for his coming.”

Further reading John 14:3; 1 Thess 4:13-18

4 - The Bride is Cleansed - The bride undergoes ritual cleansing prior to the wedding ceremony.

Further reading 1Cor 3:12-15; Rev 19:7-8 +

5 - The Wedding Ceremony - The private wedding ceremony.

Further reading Rev 19:7 +

6 - The Consummation - In the privacy of the bridal chamber the bride and groom consummate the marriage.

Further reading Rev 19:7 +

7 - The Marriage Feast - The celebratory marriage feast to which many are invited.

Further reading Matt 22:1-14; Matt 25:1-13; Luke 12:36

This order is replicated in the Lord's preparation and return
- The first step in the wedding has already taken place.
- The marriage covenant was established at the First Coming of Christ.
- Whenever a person places their faith in Jesus Christ, they enter into this covenant (the New Covenant) and become part of His bride.
- Since the ascension of Jesus following His resurrection, He has been at His Father’s house preparing the bridal chamber:
The rest will happen quickly at our Lord's Return.


The Jewish marriage, unlike that in the western world, involves numerous steps, and a period of time before the ceremony

FIRST betrothal (which involved the prospective groom’s traveling from his father’s house to the home of the prospective bride, paying the purchase price, and thus establishing the marriage covenant);

SECOND the groom’s returning to his father’s house (which meant remaining separate from his bride for 12 months, during which time he prepared the living accommodations for his wife in his father’s house);

THIRD the groom’s coming for his bride at a time not known exactly to her;

FOURTH his return with her to the groom’s father’s house to consummate the marriage and to celebrate the wedding feast for the next 7 days (during which the bride remained closeted in her bridal chamber).

The two become one body, after the wedding ceremony, the consummation and the wedding feast.

From what I understand from a Messianic Jew, the wedding feast, wedding meal, is a joyous feast, with lots of lively Jewish wedding tunes and dancing in accordance with Jewish tradition, a little like folk dancing. When the bride and groom leave the yihud room, seclusion room, to enter the banquet hall during the wedding feast, they are greeted and raised up on chairs by their friends, as the assembled guests dance around them.

It is their practice, after the wedding, that the bride and groom retreat to a seclusion room, joining their guests for a festive meal later, and then celebrate with friends and family for the next seven days.

We see here how a typical Jewish Wedding takes place and the procedures and time periods involved, it is also very clear why the first miracle of Jesus was at a wedding feast in Canaan in Galilee. Jesus replicates the Jewish Wedding pattern to show us what we should expect, up to His Return and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

I think looking at the procedure for the marriage at the time of Jesus is so important for the Christian to understand.

Now in the OT times things were slightly different, but not a lot.

The marriage in OT times was official when the betrothal took place. "There was no religious rite that was performed with the concluding of the marriage, although there was a feast at the conclusion of the festivities (Gen 29:27, Judg 14:10)".

A betrothed woman was, in the eyes of the people, legally married. When the marriage itself was consummated the husband received the wife and the family of the wife received a "dowry".

This payment was made because, as the wife's family had given their flesh and blood the husband's family was bound to gives order to maintain balance between the families. The payment of the rhm (mohar, or "dowry") was simply compensation for the loss of the daughter's labor and should not be considered as a wedding gift (Preuss, p. 104).

Within the family circle the husband was the "lord" while the wife was expected to "help" him by providing the family with children. The will of the husband was binding on the whole family. If the wife wished to express her wishes in contradistinction to the husband, she had to do so slyly (as illustrated in the stories of Rebeccah (with Isaac) and Abigail (with Nabal).


My understanding regarding marriage in accordance with scripture is therefore unchanged. But I will as always listen to and consider any other argument put forward, that is based on scripture, based on Jesus' teaching, based on Jewish culture at the time of Jesus.

- Sex before marriage is sin.
- Living together and having sex is sin.
- Looking at another person and having sexual thoughts is sin.

Shalom

 

[Benjohnson]

I do understand how you feel. But Trevor, we are old enough and we know, two wrongs does not make things right. A believer and a non-believer. God said, in His Word, they have nothing in common! "lean not unto thy own understanding". She should remain single and raise her child and grow in Christ, and deny herself. The God, who I know, who is real is also a Father to the Fatherless if the case so be. But I say, "Trust Him"! "In your patience, possess ye your soul"

Trevor, I wonder what happens when we play with fire. As Christians do we really understand what biblical marriage is? I'm not talking about the customized modern versions of marriage Satan has benevolently presented to the world. What is the difference between a boyfriend and a husband? Here in Africa and particularly, Nigeria, those two terms are quite distinct, and mean completely different things, and, I believe, in the Bible too. Do we understand the necessity of the covenant component in the equation of marriage? When we understand these things, understand the present working of Satan to make sin look 'normal', understand when compromise looks permissible because we are "flesh and blood," and remember we are at the elastic limit of man's time on earth, then I think we would readily understand the seriousness of matters like Kitty's, when placed on the scales of the Word of God!

 

[PloughBoy]

I'm in need for your prayers regarding my situation with my boyfriend who is not a Christian. I do not think I'd want to disobey God's word on this matter, but I only came back to God recently this year, and we have a beautiful daughter together. I've talked with him about living separately many times as I can't have sex with him but he freaked out. He thinks I'm breaking up with him. I was very tearful because that was not my intention. I failed already when it comes to abstaining from the sex on several occasions. Sometimes I tell him how this needs to stop and it only brings awful conversations again. I do not blame him as he never knew me as a Christian, even though he knows well how I was struggling maintaining that identity. I do not want to sin against God, and he won't convert any sooner. I know Satan is using this to break my faith again, but I want to please God. I'm thinking about moving out, but I know that could just end everything because that is how he sees it. It made me very angry. I told him I also will miss the sex, but I also have my faith, and it is very serious. He left and came way too late in the morning, and slept on the sofa and I could tell he was drinking which is something he does only if he is furious. For the past 2 days, we kept avoiding each other until I apologized, but really I'm very stuck. I also think about how breaking up with him may complicate my life. I struggle with relationships if you read my other post about my same-sex attraction and my metal health is not the best. I do not see that happening after becoming a Christian, but I'm tempted sometimes and it will devastate me to start this circle again.

"Happy Birthday" Kitty!

 

[Brother-Paul]

Happy Birthday Kitty.

Jesus loves you we do too.

 

[Brother-Paul]

As stated yesterday in post #42

I do know where you were coming from, regarding two coming together, that is a man and a woman, in marriage, both in scripture and in human law. But it is a debateable topic also, which so often draws two camps of thinking.

Having briefly covered the first option which is two coming together, a man and a woman, having sex, become one body through sex, before marriage, in marriage and not getting married at all.

I would now like to share the other option, and welcome comments for all on both sides of the fence as it were.

The first thing I would comment on is that of Jesus' first miracle at a 'wedding feast' at Canaan in Galilee.

This being His first miracle, and it being a wedding feast, is full of importance for us I believe. We could say that is was the start of His ministry, pointing to the end, when we will be invited, as born again brethren to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. But again I feel Love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage, marriage and love are very important in God's eyes.

So I ask, with this importance in mind, what was a wedding like at the time of Jesus?

If we search the KJV Bible for marriage we will find, 19 occurrences, 2 are in the OT, the other 17 are in the NT.
We are given 3 words in the Strong's Dictionary, NT, they are marriage, marry and feast. <G1062>, <G1547>, <G1548>

<G1062> comes up the most times and means... marriage, wedding, feast
<G1547> comes up just 6 times and means... marriage
<G1548> comes up 2 times and means... marriage

These references can refer to - marriage, marry, feast and given in marriage.

This gives us a very clear starting point, that a wedding, is the marriage of a man and woman, and they have a wedding feast.

What was a wedding like at the time of our Lord? Certainly different to the world today, particularly the western methods and styles.

In this marriage procedure, all these stages are replicated in our Lord's Church, which He describes himself as the bridegroom, all born again believers as His bride, and of course the invitation to the Wedding Feast which all saved souls are invited to.

The traditional Jewish Wedding at the times of Jesus.

1 - There is the marriage covenant - The father pays for the bride and establishes the marriage covenant.

Further reading Acts 20:28; 1 Cor 6:19-20; 1 Cor 11:25; Eph 5:25-27

2 - The Bridal Chamber is Prepared - The son returns to his father’s house and prepares the bridal chamber.

Further reading John 6:62; John 14:2; Acts 1:9-11

3 - The Bride is Fetched - At a time determined by the father (Matt 24:36), the groom fetches the bride to bring her to his father’s house. “Although the bride was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not know the time of his coming. As a result, the groom’s arrival was preceded by a shout, which forewarned the bride to be prepared for his coming.”

Further reading John 14:3; 1 Thess 4:13-18

4 - The Bride is Cleansed - The bride undergoes ritual cleansing prior to the wedding ceremony.

Further reading 1Cor 3:12-15; Rev 19:7-8 +

5 - The Wedding Ceremony - The private wedding ceremony.

Further reading Rev 19:7 +

6 - The Consummation - In the privacy of the bridal chamber the bride and groom consummate the marriage.

Further reading Rev 19:7 +

7 - The Marriage Feast - The celebratory marriage feast to which many are invited.

Further reading Matt 22:1-14; Matt 25:1-13; Luke 12:36

This order is replicated in the Lord's preparation and return
- The first step in the wedding has already taken place.
- The marriage covenant was established at the First Coming of Christ.
- Whenever a person places their faith in Jesus Christ, they enter into this covenant (the New Covenant) and become part of His bride.
- Since the ascension of Jesus following His resurrection, He has been at His Father’s house preparing the bridal chamber:
The rest will happen quickly at our Lord's Return.


The Jewish marriage, unlike that in the western world, involves numerous steps, and a period of time before the ceremony

FIRST betrothal (which involved the prospective groom’s traveling from his father’s house to the home of the prospective bride, paying the purchase price, and thus establishing the marriage covenant);

SECOND the groom’s returning to his father’s house (which meant remaining separate from his bride for 12 months, during which time he prepared the living accommodations for his wife in his father’s house);

THIRD the groom’s coming for his bride at a time not known exactly to her;

FOURTH his return with her to the groom’s father’s house to consummate the marriage and to celebrate the wedding feast for the next 7 days (during which the bride remained closeted in her bridal chamber).

The two become one body, after the wedding ceremony, the consummation and the wedding feast.

From what I understand from a Messianic Jew, the wedding feast, wedding meal, is a joyous feast, with lots of lively Jewish wedding tunes and dancing in accordance with Jewish tradition, a little like folk dancing. When the bride and groom leave the yihud room, seclusion room, to enter the banquet hall during the wedding feast, they are greeted and raised up on chairs by their friends, as the assembled guests dance around them.

It is their practice, after the wedding, that the bride and groom retreat to a seclusion room, joining their guests for a festive meal later, and then celebrate with friends and family for the next seven days.

We see here how a typical Jewish Wedding takes place and the procedures and time periods involved, it is also very clear why the first miracle of Jesus was at a wedding feast in Canaan in Galilee. Jesus replicates the Jewish Wedding pattern to show us what we should expect, up to His Return and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

I think looking at the procedure for the marriage at the time of Jesus is so important for the Christian to understand.

Now in the OT times things were slightly different, but not a lot.

The marriage in OT times was official when the betrothal took place. "There was no religious rite that was performed with the concluding of the marriage, although there was a feast at the conclusion of the festivities (Gen 29:27, Judg 14:10)".

A betrothed woman was, in the eyes of the people, legally married. When the marriage itself was consummated the husband received the wife and the family of the wife received a "dowry".

This payment was made because, as the wife's family had given their flesh and blood the husband's family was bound to gives order to maintain balance between the families. The payment of the rhm (mohar, or "dowry") was simply compensation for the loss of the daughter's labor and should not be considered as a wedding gift (Preuss, p. 104).

Within the family circle the husband was the "lord" while the wife was expected to "help" him by providing the family with children. The will of the husband was binding on the whole family. If the wife wished to express her wishes in contradistinction to the husband, she had to do so slyly (as illustrated in the stories of Rebeccah (with Isaac) and Abigail (with Nabal).


My understanding regarding marriage in accordance with scripture is therefore unchanged. But I will as always listen to and consider any other argument put forward, that is based on scripture, based on Jesus' teaching, based on Jewish culture at the time of Jesus.

- Sex before marriage is sin.
- Living together and having sex is sin.
- Looking at another person and having sexual thoughts is sin.

Shalom

Last night I read a thread referring to a video 'Before the Wrath'. I had previously referred to the wedding at Canaan in Galilee which was Jesus' first miracle as we know. I feel this is very important and many ways, firstly the wedding event and procedure, secondly Christ the Bride groom and his church, his bride.

I relied on this earlier today. I came across a post by another brother on here, he had suggested on another thread a film called 'Before the Wrath'. Unlike me, I felt led to purchase it through Amazon on Prime. Even more unlike, I watched it in the last two hours, I cannot remember when I ordered a film and watched the same day, or even the same week, but I felt led to do si with this film.

I would recommend it to all. Co-incidentay, I don't believe in coincidence, God-incidentaly, it relates to what I put, but includes more. From the full film I would only disagree with one item, not the item itself from scripture but their interpretation of it, but this one small situation is not worth counting compared to the information they include in the film.

They hit so many nails on the head it is amazing. To understand the wedding at Canaan in Galillee and what Jesus said in the Gospels, we have to go back to the times of Jesus and the culture of that time, this film does just that. I will watch it again and again for sure, even invite others to watch it. For me it has discrete sub titles so I didn't miss a word.

No one knows the day or hour except the father,not even the son. Thanks be to God.

 

[Trevor]

Trevor, I wonder what happens when we play with fire. As Christians do we really understand what biblical marriage is? I'm not talking about the customized modern versions of marriage Satan has benevolently presented to the world. What is the difference between a boyfriend and a husband? Here in Africa and particularly, Nigeria, those two terms are quite distinct, and mean completely different things, and, I believe, in the Bible too. Do we understand the necessity of the covenant component in the equation of marriage? When we understand these things, understand the present working of Satan to make sin look 'normal', understand when compromise looks permissible because we are "flesh and blood," and remember we are at the elastic limit of man's time on earth, then I think we would readily understand the seriousness of matters like Kitty's, when placed on the scales of the Word of God!

The very first moment my wife and I saw one another our hearts married and they stayed married for the next fifty three years. For the first fourteen years we were not legally married but in that time we had our four children. when circumstances allowed we stood in front of a registrar in room and made it legal. My marriage took place the moment I set eyes on the woman God had chosen for me. We have walked with the Lord now in the Spirit, for over thirty five years. Make of it what you will.

 

[Benjohnson]

I deeply appreciate what you wrote my dear brother. But... do we call it cultural differences in our perspectives to this matter? No it wouldn't be anything cultural, since the Bible remains our only standard. I am not in anyway trying to project any doctrines here. What I write here are principally my own opinions based on personal experience(s) in the Word of God. But, neither my opinion, nor anyone else's on a given matter the ultimate, the Holy Spirit is the ultimate authority when it comes to biblical interpretation.

On the present subject matter, we need to bring ourselves to define terms like 'fornication,' adultery, youthful lusts, infatuation, co-habiting (in the case of a man and woman not legally married) etc. I think that if our definitions of these terms were the same, and in the sense the Bible uses them, then we would have no divergent views on issues as the one we are dealing with now.

One of major tools the devil is using now is the twisting and adulteration of certain words used by God in the Bible, watering them and the entire Gospel into such an embarrassing triviality. Oops! Do you wonder why we have many watered down versions of the Bible today? Is it coincidence? No it's a grand satanic conspiracy to rubbish the Word of God and neutralize the ever-piercing and powerful Word of God into a mere social book. To be sure of what we are saying here, check out some of these Satan-inspired versions against the original KJV. You will find that they have neutralized the seriousness of many of the words, messages and warnings of God so people would not know the magnitude and consequences of their actions, fear God and turn from their wicked ways!! Furthermore, why would some one-time charismatic spiritual leaders God previously used to bring many sinners to salvation, suddenly wake up one day and begin to preach heresy? How did Satan sneak in and sowed tares in their lives overnight? Because they slept!!

My point is, we must be very careful not to use the word 'error' or 'mistake' in a place where the Bible Bible used the word 'sin,' as we do in our present day Christianity. The fact that we did what was wrong, either deliberately or in ignorance, and God did not come down hard on us does not mean He does not detest those actions, nor does it mean He has now decided to play along with our modern compromises to the old time religion. I'm not just particular about the issue of marriage, but our 360 degrees Christian lives. We must be on guard because the devil, as a roaring lion, goes about seeking whom he would devour. Let us not coax sin. It's not enough to talk about it, we must identify it, give it its proper name, aggressively hate it and, ultimately, abstain from it.

 

[Trevor]

I deeply appreciate what you wrote my dear brother. But... do we call it cultural differences in our perspectives to this matter? No it wouldn't be anything cultural, since the Bible remains our only standard. I am not in anyway trying to project any doctrines here. What I write here are principally my own opinions based on personal experience(s) in the Word of God. But, neither my opinion, nor anyone else's on a given matter the ultimate, the Holy Spirit is the ultimate authority when it comes to biblical interpretation.

On the present subject matter, we need to bring ourselves to define terms like 'fornication,' adultery, youthful lusts, infatuation, co-habiting (in the case of a man and woman not legally married) etc. I think that if our definitions of these terms were the same, and in the sense the Bible uses them, then we would have no divergent views on issues as the one we are dealing with now.

One of major tools the devil is using now is the twisting and adulteration of certain words used by God in the Bible, watering them and the entire Gospel into such an embarrassing triviality. Oops! Do you wonder why we have many watered down versions of the Bible today? Is it coincidence? No it's a grand satanic conspiracy to rubbish the Word of God and neutralize the ever-piercing and powerful Word of God into a mere social book. To be sure of what we are saying here, check out some of these Satan-inspired versions against the original KJV. You will find that they have neutralized the seriousness of many of the words, messages and warnings of God so people would not know the magnitude and consequences of their actions, fear God and turn from their wicked ways!! Furthermore, why would some one-time charismatic spiritual leaders God previously used to bring many sinners to salvation, suddenly wake up one day and begin to preach heresy? How did Satan sneak in and sowed tares in their lives overnight? Because they slept!!

My point is, we must be very careful not to use the word 'error' or 'mistake' in a place where the Bible Bible used the word 'sin,' as we do in our present day Christianity. The fact that we did what was wrong, either deliberately or in ignorance, and God did not come down hard on us does not mean He does not detest those actions, nor does it mean He has now decided to play along with our modern compromises to the old time religion. I'm not just particular about the issue of marriage, but our 360 degrees Christian lives. We must be on guard because the devil, as a roaring lion, goes about seeking whom he would devour. Let us not coax sin. It's not enough to talk about it, we must identify it, give it its proper name, aggressively hate it and, ultimately, abstain from it.

That is a very eloquent post Ben, and I've pondered for an answer. The first thing that came to mind is how God must view us, does he view the child who was born in a loving Christian home with understanding parents and all their needs, the same way he views the child who was born into a home with unbelieving parents with so many problems that they were unable to love the child and because of their inability to love, cast him out to sleep in bus shelters curled up against the radiators for warmth? Does God then, have no compassion, when that youth, craving the love his parents couldn't give him, tries to find it in the arms of a girl seeking the same? Did God give the law to be obeyed? when the only person capable of doing that, was Jesus Christ himself. No! he gave the law to show us our need for salvation and his love by sending his Son down to pay the price for the sins that we inevitably committed, the sins that you so eloquently listed in your post. Romans 7:9-11 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment brought me death. It seems, then, that the law was given to bring us death, to open our eyes to the knowledge of our need to be reborn into life. I believe you'll find Ben, that our loving Father is far more understanding and forgiving than you give Him credit for. He didn't turn his back on Cain, when he murdered his brother Able, He didn't turn his back on Abraham when he lied to Pharaoh by telling him Sarah was his sister, but omitted to tell him they were married. He didn't turn his back on Jacob when he, through subterfuge, stole his brothers birth right. And he didn't turn his back on king David when he murdered his faithful servant Uriah so that he could have his way with his wife. I think we'll find that God's ways are not ours. and as you say, we should allow the Holy Spirit to guide us into our understanding. Bless you Ben.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

May i remind you all that this is the Prayer Forum,
another way to say it
This is not a general discussion forum for debate and differences.

Please refrain form continuing your ongoing interaction unless it is to agree in prayer for the person requesting prayer and may the Lord be pleased with your praying as one.... for one... another.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Benjohnson]

That is a very eloquent post Ben, and I've pondered for an answer. The first thing that came to mind is how God must view us, does he view the child who was born in a loving Christian home with understanding parents and all their needs, the same way he views the child who was born into a home with unbelieving parents with so many problems that they were unable to love the child and because of their inability to love, cast him out to sleep in bus shelters curled up against the radiators for warmth? Does God then, have no compassion, when that youth, craving the love his parents couldn't give him, tries to find it in the arms of a girl seeking the same? Did God give the law to be obeyed? when the only person capable of doing that, was Jesus Christ himself. No! he gave the law to show us our need for salvation and his love by sending his Son down to pay the price for the sins that we inevitably committed, the sins that you so eloquently listed in your post. Romans 7:9-11 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment brought me death. It seems, then, that the law was given to bring us death, to open our eyes to the knowledge of our need to be reborn into life. I believe you'll find Ben, that our loving Father is far more understanding and forgiving than you give Him credit for. He didn't turn his back on Cain, when he murdered his brother Able, He didn't turn his back on Abraham when he lied to Pharaoh by telling him Sarah was his sister, but omitted to tell him they were married. He didn't turn his back on Jacob when he, through subterfuge, stole his brothers birth right. And he didn't turn his back on king David when he murdered his faithful servant Uriah so that he could have his way with his wife. I think we'll find that God's ways are not ours. and as you say, we should allow the Holy Spirit to guide us into our understanding. Bless you Ben.

Trevor, you are absolutely right. These are indeed heart-touching ceircumstances. God is indeed merciful and He loves us more than we can ever imagine. He cares for, and understands the plight of, everyone around us more than we can ever do. Even at the highest point of our sympathy and empathy for others, we cannot understand and care for them the way He does. Yet with all these, Trevor, one thing I remind myself by the day is the fact that one day we shall all stand before this God, this time around, not to receive mercy or salvation, but to receive rewards for our labour on earth or punishments for our sin, careless lives and compromise. Then, He will not be the merciful, caring and understanding God we have always known Him to be, but will unleash His wrath and indignation upon those who do not meet His standards of holiness and righteousness, going by all that Jesus has told us in the Bible. Trevor, this is why we must not take Him for granted. As the God of mercy He is still the consuming fire on the flip side. Will I be able to convince Him on the last day why I obeyed Him halfway? I keep telling myself, and this makes me tremble. Thanks so much Trevor.

 

[Trevor]

Trevor, you are absolutely right. These are indeed heart-touching ceircumstances. God is indeed merciful and He loves us more than we can ever imagine. He cares for, and understands the plight of, everyone around us more than we can ever do. Even at the highest point of our sympathy and empathy for others, we cannot understand and care for them the way He does. Yet with all these, Trevor, one thing I remind myself by the day is the fact that one day we shall all stand before this God, this time around, not to receive mercy or salvation, but to receive rewards for our labour on earth or punishments for our sin, careless lives and compromise. Then, He will not be the merciful, caring and understanding God we have always known Him to be, but will unleash His wrath and indignation upon those who do not meet His standards of holiness and righteousness, going by all that Jesus has told us in the Bible. Trevor, this is why we must not take Him for granted. As the God of mercy He is still the consuming fire on the flip side. Will I be able to convince Him on the last day why I obeyed Him halfway? I keep telling myself, and this makes me tremble. Thanks so much Trevor.

The Lord does indeed love us Ben, that's why he touches us with his Spirit and blesses us as he does. Do you believe that when we come to the Judgement he's going to turn from Dr Jeckle into Mr Hyde and no longer love us? or will he see us covered by the blood of his Son and love us as he always has.?

 

[Brother-Paul]

I'm not sure what that means, but I know the Spirit of God moves in me and even in the trees, animals, and most people including my boyfriend.

Hello KittyLinda

You talk about the Spirit of God moving... in you, in the trees and animals and most people, including your boy friend.

May I ask are you born again sister, parts of what you say make me ask this question?

Being born again is a wonderful thing, it is without doubt the best miracle that can happen to us, but we must be born again to have the promise of salvation, thinking we are born again isn't a guarantee of salvation.

I ask it in His Love Kitty.

Bless you

 

[KittyLinda]

PloughBoy. Yes, Child’s new life is a gift from God no matter how, but as a matter of fact, I was not ready to be a mother. I remember telling my boyfriend about giving the baby up for adoption, but he refused and promised to support me and be with me. He has been a positive force in my life. There is a room for improvement. This man needs Jesus and I’m the only person in this world who may lead him to God.

Yes, having a baby with him does not create a marriage covenant. Me and my ex believed we were Christians and we had no sex before our lesbian wedding. Did that make it ok? I’m fully aware that marrying unbeliever is not OK with God. I can tell from all discussions here that there is no easy answer for a circumstance created by sin, but If we do not marry, then legal questions will arise soon. My lease ends in December. We need to reach an agreement before that. I am definitely moving out, but I’m not planning to end this relationship. I want to date him. I do not feel God is asking me to end it, but I should be waiting the Lord to show him the path of grace then perhaps we could marry then. There is no guarantee this will go the way I want. Often my emotions get in the way and I may not be wise enough to do the right thing but I want to try. I do not want to regret not trying.

Brother-Paul. I believe that I’m indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I chose the path of grace a long time ago, not just now. I served God, happened to be a volunteer in my church, did intensive bible studies, loved God with all my heart and soul, even earned a degree in theology. I grew up memorizing and speaking the word of God, but I walked from the faith and I often come back. At some point in my life, I started to twist the bible, even used the Greek, and I trained my ex how to answer for our gay marriage back then, and later I became well versed in the Bible just to justify my sin.

I was in so much pain and I thought I “earned” it, but it got worse and worse, but I’m different today. I feel tempted sometimes, but I do not desire to sin. Sometimes I look at pictures of my ex and I still say that I love her so much, but it is different love. I do not lust after her or anyone else. My desires changed in the heart, and I want to serve God, and to be on the path of grace forevermore.

1 John 3:9: Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


Please do not forget to pray for us. I want to do the right thing, but I just need the prayers and and some kind words of encouragement. That's all.

 

[Benjohnson]

The Lord does indeed love us Ben, that's why he touches us with his Spirit and blesses us as he does. Do you believe that when we come to the Judgement he's going to turn from Dr Jeckle into Mr Hyde and no longer love us? or will he see us covered by the blood of his Son and love us as he always has.?

Trevor, I wished the Bible said so. But the Scriptures teach otherwise. Time of repentance and mercy ends for the unrepented soul or the compromised believer, once they die in their sins. There is no mercy at the other side of the grave for any dead individual who rejected Jesus or the believer who lived a compromised life. Rev. 3;15,16 says I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, (COMPROMISE) I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Emphasis mine). 1Pe_1:17 says: And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Know what? The devil keeps telling people, and even convinces his apostate pastors to preach, that God is too kind and loving to destroy people in the lake of fire. This is DECEPTION A1; yes, the peak of deception. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus Jesus made it unequivocally clear that it was too late for the rich man to have any form of mercy. He had to pass through his punishment.

GOD'S JUDGMENT IS IMMINENT!!
Rev 21:8 says: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

In verse 27 we see: And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Jesus warned that, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of His coming (Lk. 17:26,27)

Heb_10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb_10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Therefore, THERE IS NO NEED TO DRESS SIN IN RIGHTEOUS CLOTHES. Every believer must live in holiness and righteousness and not entangle himself with the affairs of this world if they want to get to heaven (2Tiim. 2:4)

Today, many are confused about what the Bible actually teaches, and this is because of, at least, two reasons. First is the wrong interpretation of the real Word of God. Second is the proliferation of adulterated modern versions of the true Bible, all masterminded by Lucifer to drag people to the lake of fire. Blessings!

 

[Trevor]

Trevor, I wished the Bible said so. But the Scriptures teach otherwise. Time of repentance and mercy ends for the unrepented soul or the compromised believer, once they die in their sins. There is no mercy at the other side of the grave for any dead individual who rejected Jesus or the believer who lived a compromised life. Rev. 3;15,16 says I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, (COMPROMISE) I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Emphasis mine). 1Pe_1:17 says: And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Know what? The devil keeps telling people, and even convinces his apostate pastors to preach, that God is too kind and loving to destroy people in the lake of fire. This is DECEPTION A1; yes, the peak of deception. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus Jesus made it unequivocally clear that it was too late for the rich man to have any form of mercy. He had to pass through his punishment.

GOD'S JUDGMENT IS IMMINENT!!
Rev 21:8 says: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

In verse 27 we see: And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Jesus warned that, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of His coming (Lk. 17:26,27)

Heb_10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb_10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Therefore, THERE IS NO NEED TO DRESS SIN IN RIGHTEOUS CLOTHES. Every believer must live in holiness and righteousness and not entangle himself with the affairs of this world if they want to get to heaven (2Tiim. 2:4)

Today, many are confused about what the Bible actually teaches, and this is because of, at least, two reasons. First is the wrong interpretation of the real Word of God. Second is the proliferation of adulterated modern versions of the true Bible, all masterminded by Lucifer to drag people to the lake of fire. Blessings!

You're writing as though Christians have the strength in themselves to come up to the standards of the law Ben. If we could do that, then why did Jesus die on the cross for us? Luke 18:10-14 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God I thank you I am not like other men - robbers, evil doers, adulterers - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' " But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God have mercy on me a sinner.' " I tell you this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. No one would come to Jesus unless they realised their need for salvation. Paul said "who will rescue me from this body of death, thanks be to God , through Jesus Christ our Lord". It's not much help to the one drowning, for the rescuer to tell him to rescue himself. No he will grab him by his hair if need be, and drag him out. That is rescue. I am pleased you're not rescuing me Ben, you'd judge me, find me wanting and throw me back to drown. Jesus finds people in all sorts of situations, more often than not, situations of sin. He could even find someone like me, who had children with a woman outside of marriage. Do you believe Jesus would wish me to abandon my woman and children to pay homage to laws that no-one is able to keep? or would he accept me as I am and change, not just me but also the family he found me with? Life isn't black and white Ben (no pun intended) it comes in many shades of grey and Jesus covers this with the scripture; Mark 12:30-31 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." As we all fall short of the glory of God, I am called, through love, to treat your shortcomings as I pray you would treat mine. Bless you Ben.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Br Bear reminded us this is a prayer forum, poor Kitty appears to have been forget, she hasn't we know that.

There is a lot on the topic of what God considers to be 'married', so I have started a new thread called...

Marriage - when does God consider a man and a woman 'Married'

There is a lot to debate, there is no easy answer, so the thread has been opened on that basis to encourage the views of others, relating to God's will and married in His eyes.

Shalom