What If I'm Born Gay?

[Twistie]

Amen, all things are possible through God.


While not every believers in the doctrine of Total Depravity, most will agree
that mankind is messed up. Even people who will say that mankind is good
at the core and just need a little loving, are the same ones who will have
cameras in their home and own a gun for protection because deep down in
their hearts they know that people are evil and many will do bad things
if they think they can get away with it or if no one is looking.

On the gay topic, I will say as a professional that 90% of all the clients
that I've worked with who have identified as gay have some type of trauma
such as being molested as a child, or growing up without a male in the home,
or being abused in a way which turned them off to the opposite sex.

So the data supports that this issue (as we know if very spiritual) also has
a strong social/environment component meaning people weren't born that way,
but ended up pursuing that lifestyle after those events (abuse, trauma, etc) happened.

Also another thing that people confused is feminine males and homosexual males.
A man can be feminine but that doesn't mean he has to be attracted to other males.
The role of society is to shape boys to be men and girls to be women, but we live
in a society where they want to have gender neutral toys and everyone using
the same bathrooms, and changing pronouns, and when you have abuse
on top of that, no wonder we have so many people confused with gender identity issues.

With all that said, I agree with you OP, Jesus can change anyone.
Love and God bless.

I was brought up in a mixture of religions tho my momma had me as roman Catholic now my uncle who I believe was protestant who was also my godfather in his late 20 I believe is when he left his wife n children to move in n make a life with his boyfriend.. most the family turned against him n his children Neva Eva talked to him again..
After yrs of being with the dude dude died from cancer I believe n my uncle well his life was turned upside down... Once he was a man who kept a impeccable clean home very organized become very disorganized n unable to keep house so to say.. he had no friends n only 2 of us would go n check n help as much as we could which Neva seemed it was enough... But I do believe in my heart of hearts that he turned his life back to YH...

I remember our last conversation like it was yesterday I can see it too He said even Yeshua had forgiven the prostitute...

He was so filled with sorrow it had just broke my heart...

Ova his lust he gave up his family friends n children n wife n he saw that I believe....

I've learned not to judge on outward appearances we don't know how broken n scarred the one next to us are..
N Neva Eva pass a judgement on a person cause we don't know if they will accept Christ on their death bed..

For what we do to one of YHs we do unto YH Himself

Twistie

 

[lentz]

So what was it that was in Cain that caused him to murder?, do you have any idea about genetic inheritance, the genes that we're born with that play such a large part in making us the person we become, genetic inheritence, upbringing, life experiences all make us who we are, as i tried to point out in my original post, my 5 children had more or less the same upbringing but each has turned out radically different, and those differences could be seen at a very early age. Its not a choice as to whether people are gay or not, the same as someone doesnt choose to be a Psychopath, its whats given them, and "to those that are given much, much will be expected from them".

Sorry,I'm not a liberal

 

[Twistie]

Sorry,I'm not a liberal

 

[Twistie]

So what was it that was in Cain that caused him to murder?, do you have any idea about genetic inheritance, the genes that we're born with that play such a large part in making us the person we become, genetic inheritence, upbringing, life experiences all make us who we are, as i tried to point out in my original post, my 5 children had more or less the same upbringing but each has turned out radically different, and those differences could be seen at a very early age. Its not a choice as to whether people are gay or not, the same as someone doesnt choose to be a Psychopath, its whats given them, and "to those that are given much, much will be expected from them".

Pride arrogance perhaps his ego

We all have triles we face the world will either harden you or make u more caring about others we either grow more selfish of selfless n we all have a choice we can make to do the right thing or to do the wrong thing

Excuses r not a reason n blaming others for our actions seems to b what man has done since the first bite of the apple

Twistie

 

[lentz]

So what was it that was in Cain that caused him to murder?, do you have any idea about genetic inheritance, the genes that we're born with that play such a large part in making us the person we become, genetic inheritence, upbringing, life experiences all make us who we are, as i tried to point out in my original post, my 5 children had more or less the same upbringing but each has turned out radically different, and those differences could be seen at a very early age. Its not a choice as to whether people are gay or not, the same as someone doesnt choose to be a Psychopath, its whats given them, and "to those that are given much, much will be expected from them".

It was the sin nature caused by Adam.
The sin nature lives in all of us. Sin is a choice we make of our own free will. Homosexuality,robbery,murder,etc,are all sins. To say you were born a homosexual is impossible. If a person is born,created by God as a homosexual, then He would not have destroyed Sodom. I was born with blue eyes and blond hair. God 'did' create me that way. So he would then be unjust if he sent me to hell for blond hair and blue eyes.
But all matters pertaining to life,actions,character,are all choices i make.

So in answer to the question,"What if I'm born gay",......you weren't

 

[aide]

We can all agree the homosexuality is a sin. I'm sure 95% of us will agree. And
we can also agree that heterosexual fornication is a sin. Similar to how those with
issues of lust who feel the urge to fornicate and fulfill those desires, some with same sex
attractions likewise feel the urge to fulfill their desires. Both are sinful whether it is the perversion
of homosexuality or the sinfulness of sex outside of marriage. Both are wrong.

This is true, I'm just not sure if there is a moral immoral equivalence (In the light of Romans 1). In Rom 1 'homosexuality seems to be singled out vss 26-27 over other sins (they are lumped together). But in any case all sin (especially self righteousness) will need the atoning blood of Jesus Christ for forgiveness.

 

[Twistie]

Look on YouTube How Demons steal our prayers.

He who hates all good(Satan) has been watching man since the beginning of time satan can't steal our prayers YH hears them but satan knows how many is.. Satan knows what man likes...so when one gets wealthy in worldy goods one should take inventory of his life to see where all these gifts are coming from...

Twistie

 

[Searchingtoo]

I'm not saying anyone necessarily is.

However knowing that parents clearly pass down various traits and behaviors and inclinations to their children, for example I don't know if you work
in mental health, but it is very clear to see if you chart family histories to see how alcoholism follows families, whether it is a spiritual bondage,
genetic issue, or both.

Working in Social Services, I know that Babies can be born addicted to drugs because the mother used while pregnant. Are you aware of that?
So the child gets born with various issues, whether issues of intense anger, or other issues due to parent's behaviors.

I think Christians think that if they were to admit that anything that is unlike God can be at birth than somehow God is at fault. However
remember what Jesus said when they asked Him who sinned that this man was born blind and He told them that it was so God could be
glorified. It is complicated.

I think it is obvious so see if you study any science or basic mental health the connection between parents and their children and I also think
spiritually there are generation curses as well. However the fact that it is obvious that people are born with all types of issues does not mean
that God is to blame.

Most men are born with issues of lust. By default most men have an inclination to cheat, it is something that has to be resisted.
So don't feel threatened by the fact that people may be born with any kind of sin nature, the Bible already tells us that we are.
The whole point of the video and I'm not sure if you watched it in its fullness is that the question about being born gay
is not even the question to ask. That is the whole point of the video. It entertains the possibility why someone could possibly
see themselves that way, but does not go down that road to the end, instead it stops and places the focus on Christ.
Hopefully others will get that take away .

We all have temptations. Just because a person is born with a temptation, whether it is temptation to commit adultery, sleep with someone of the same sex or commit murder, that doesn't make it ok to let those temptations dictate what we do. They are all sins and detestable to God. None of them should be condoned or winked at just because an ungodly society says, for example that it's just an alternative lifestyle.

Since the question was asked about homosexuality, this is what God says about it: "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:13So it makes no difference what the world thinks or says about it you must resist it and if you don't, well, you see what God said. Remember what Jesus said "“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. - Matthew 7:13,14

 

[PloughBoy]

We all have temptations. Just because a person is born with a temptation, whether it is temptation to commit adultery, sleep with someone of the same sex or commit murder, that doesn't make it ok to let those temptations dictate what we do. They are all sins and detestable to God. None of them should be condoned or winked at just because an ungodly society says, for example that it's just an alternative lifestyle.

Since the question was asked about homosexuality, this is what God says about it: "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:13So it makes no difference what the world thinks or says about it you must resist it and if you don't, well, you see what God said. Remember what Jesus said "“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. - Matthew 7:13,14

And:
Leviticus: 20:10 NASV
New American Standard Bible
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Is He not Immutable ?

Matthew 5:37
NASB 1977
“But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; and anything beyond these is of evil.

 

[Waggles]

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, wraths, factions, divisions, heresies,
21 envyings, drunkennesses, revellings, and the like of these; of which I forewarn you, as also I did forewarn, that they who practise such things shall not inherit God’s kingdom.

fornication: covers a multitude of sexual sins -

 

[PloughBoy]

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, wraths, factions, divisions, heresies,
21 envyings, drunkennesses, revellings, and the like of these; of which I forewarn you, as also I did forewarn, that they who practise such things shall not inherit God’s kingdom.

fornication: covers a multitude of sexual sins -

Like many do not know the different forces of "demons and The Devil" and of the Work of the flesh , The difference and Works of All Three, but thy are True Servants Of GOD, True Warriors, Skilled and Taught by His Hand. and They know The different between The World and Eternity.


New King James Version
A Psalm of David. Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle—

Strange "The War of the Flesh" "The War of Warring with The World" ,
And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

Come get us, we need you.

 

[Brad Huber]

With so much genetic modifications to our food supply, its possible that we are slowly being modified to be something God didnt intend, and then so many personal intentional modifications to adults having kids, I think its a possibility that people could be born with the inclination to desire the same sex. If this is the case and you claim you want to serve Christ, then you must abstain from fulfilling those desires, just like we are to abstain from sex before marriage. One abstaining is much like the other, dont let your desires rule you.

 

[Waggles]

Always remember Jesus is coming back to claim the overcomers.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Always remember Jesus is coming back to claim the overcomers.

Of which there will be "few".

 

[Br. Bear]

fornication: covers a multitude of sexual sins

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
fornication.
From porneuo; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry -- fornication.
see GREEK porneuo

------------
HELPS Word-studies
4202 porneía (the root of the English terms "pornography, pornographic"; cf. 4205 /pórnos) which is derived from pernaō, "to sell off") – properly, a selling off (surrendering) of sexual purity; promiscuity of any (every) type.
Copyright © 2021 by Discovery Bible.

--------------------------
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from porneuó
Definition
fornication
NASB Translation
fornication (4), fornications (2), immoralities (1), immorality (16), sexual immorality (1), unchastity (1).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org

-------------------------
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4202: πορνεία

πορνεία, πορνείας, ἡ (πορνεύω), the Sept. for תַּזְנוּת, זְנוּת, זְנוּנִים, fornication (Vulg.fornicatio (and (Revelation 19:2)prostitutio)); used a. properly, of illicit sexual intercourse in general (Demosthenes, 403, 27; 433, 25): Acts 15:20, 29; Acts 21:25 (that this meaning must be adopted in these passages will surprise no one who has learned from 1 Corinthians 6:12ff how leniently converts from among the heathen regarded this vice and how lightly they indulged in it; accordingly, all other interpretations of the term, such as of marriages within the prohibited degrees and the like, are to be rejected); Romans 1:29 Rec.; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 1 Corinthians 6:13, 18; 1 Corinthians 7:2; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Revelation 9:21; it is distinguished from μοιχεία in Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:21; and Galatians 5:19 Rec.; used of adultery ((cf. Hosea 2:2 (4), etc.)), Matthew 5:32; Matthew 19:9. b.

In accordance with a form of speech common in the O. T. and among the Jews which represents the close relationship existing between Jehovah and his people under the figure of a marriage (cf. Gesenius, Thesaurus, i., p. 422{a} following), πορνεία is used metaphorically of the worship of idols: Revelation 14:8; Revelation 17:2, 4; Revelation 18:3; Revelation 19:2; ἡμεῖς ἐκ πορνείας οὐ γεγεννήμεθα (we are not of a people given to idolatry), ἕνα πατέρα ἔχομεν τόν Θεόν, John 8:41 (ἄθεος μέν ὁ ἄγονος, πολύθεος δέ ὁ ἐκ πόρνης, τυφλωττων περί τόν ἀληθῆ πατέρα καί διά τοῦτο πολλούς ἀνθ' ἑνός γονεῖς αἰνιττόμενος, Philo de mig. Abr. § 12; τέκνα πορνείας, of idolaters, Hosea 1:2; (but in John, the passage cited others understand physical descent to be spoken of (cf. Meyer))); of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols, Revelation 2:21.
THAYER'S GREEK LEXICON, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006, 2011 by Biblesoft, Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com

 

[rPhoenix3d]

I used to be a counselor in a men's addiction group.

One thing I found over the years, is everyone seems to have certain tendencies.

Some like to lie, some like to steal, some like to look at pornography, some like to gamble. Some like the feeling drugs and alcohol gives them. Some like to over-eat, some like to be lazy, and well... it appears some of them .. "like men".

I think we are all born into sin, and we all have certain sins we are drawn to. I'm pretty sure almost all of us could say we've had a "pet sin" somewhere in our past.

Some of this could even be generational. If your parents were alcoholics, there's a higher chance you might be also. If your parents were over-weight, there's a higher chance you might be also.

For me... and a lot of men I suspect... it was pornography. It really had a grip on me. I tried for decades to stop doing it. I hated myself for doing it. I prayed, I cried, I got angry, and even thought about making myself blind.
I know people who are hooked on smoking, they want o quit but they just "can't". I know a man who would rather gamble his last dollar away than eat. He stood on street corners begging for money... so he could gamble.

One conversation I will never forget, a group of men talking around a table....

I could sleep in a bank full of money all night, and not take any... but I couldn't sleep in a liquor store and not drink any.

I could sleep in a liquor store all might and not drink any, but I couldn't sleep in a bakery and not eat sweets.

I could sleep in bakery all night and not anything, but I couldn't sleep in a room full of naked women and not stare at them.

I could sleep in a room full of naked women and not stare, but I couldn't sleep in a bar and not have beer. etc...

You get the idea. Everyone has that "one sin" that they keep going back to over and over again. It seems it's so hard to break it. One reason it's so hard is because we "love" that sin. We don't really want to quit doing it.

So yes, I suppose it's possible there are born homosexuals, just like there are born, liars, thieves, sex perverts, alcoholics and murderers.

But even so... just because we have a certain tendency to want to do a certain thing... doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it NOT sin just because I want to do it.

I can tell you as a man who struggled with pornography for decades.... it CAN be overcome. It can be defeated. For me it wasn't easy, it wasn't quick, but It's been about 9 years "sober" for me now.

I suspect it's the same way with homosexuality, you might love doing it. (It's still a sin) You might not want to quit doing it. But if we can get past what we want, and start focusing on what God wants... we truly can overcome.

-------

The old argument is... how can loving someone be a sin?

Homosexuality isn't about love.

I love men, I loved my dad, I love my sons, I love men I go to church with. But I don't sleep with them.

Homosexuality is about sex.

How can loving someone be wrong? If you think love and sex are the same thing... try "loving" your neighbors wife and see if he agrees.
Try "loving" your neighbors children and see if they agree.

Great response.

I’m struggling with pornography as well. I was in it deeply most of my life, I didn’t think it was a problem back then. It affected my marriage. I held onto expectations and was angry a lot. The last few years God has really touched me. I’m a lot stronger now. I relapse at times, but it has gotten easier.

I pray a lot now. I feel His presence now and see what he’s doing in my life. I’m more at peace and happy. I rarely get angry and overall pretty melow now.

We have to push ourselves to love Him more. Pray more, listen to sermons and Christian audiobooks to deepen our faith. This is what I do. Lately I’ve started praying while on my knees. I am shocked how He listens to me now. Coincidence after coincidence after coincidence of good fortune. Like the planets aligning just for me. Circumstances that I want are coming true.

Jesus Christ is my redeemer. He love us and listens to us.

 

[Beetow]

I suspect that a good many Christian gays are stuck with their propensity for same
sex relationships for now, but they can at least rest assured that when they leave
this life, they will leave that propensity behind and go out of here free of it.

● Col 2:10-11 . . In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful
nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision
done by Christ,
_

 

[only son]

Such a very interesting subject, what about the “: Eunuchs “ mentioned by Yahashua

I was reading on the forum about someone here mentioning how Yahashua was discussing men being Eunuchs, this was at the time when marriage and divorce was being discussed among Yahashua and his disciples.

Saying that, when the husband has relations with another man’s wife or divorces or puts away his wife for no reasonable or just cause - for no good reason, the man is also guilty of causing his wife to commit adultery.

Mat 5: :32 ........... whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committed adultery.

:33 ................. perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

The Man is guilty here - CAUSING HER TO COMMIT ADULTERY by leaving her and forcing her to marry another.

Again Yahashua mentions in - Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, ( he ) committeth adultery ………………..

Greek manuscripts
:10 Saying they the disciples them if are the same it is the reason that mankind with this woman are not profitable to marry

:10 λεγουσιν saying - αυτω they - οι the - μαθηται disciples - αυτου them - ει if - ουτως are the same - εστιν it is - η the - αιτια reason - του that - ανθρωπου mankindμετα with - της this - γυναικος woman - ου are not - συμφερει profitable - γαμησαι to marry

In other words, the disciples were saying that they understood - that BOTH MEN, - are the same in their guilt of committing adultery - the man who married her to begin with and he refuses to remain married - he should have never married her and now - if any man involve this woman in marriage - the man who put her away for no reason, he is guilty and the man who thereafter married her, he also is committing adultery

the man who married her to begin with - he should have never married her ------

:10 Saying they the disciples them if are the same it is the reason that mankind with this woman are not profitable to marry

The disciples were explaining that the man leaving his good wife has caused ALL OF MANKIND to be unable to resolve the horribly mistreated woman in marriage, and that applies to anyone involved with this woman thereafter, in marriage.

. 1. in other words, the man who leaves his wife for no good cause - he is guilty of causing her to commit adultery

. 2. the same man is again committing adultery when he marries another, after leaving his wife for no good cause .

. 3. and any man who marries the woman who was left by this husband - is also committing adultery.

Jesus goes on to explain and mention that it is better that some man remain as the EUNUCH and never marry again - …………………..

……………………………… IF HE LEAVES THIS WIFE FOR NO GOOD CAUSE

It would be like, God himself divorcing and rejecting a Christian whom is saved - and the Godly Christian believer has done nothing wrong to be rejected by God, and then, and God goes and begins accepting new converts and new Christians while rejecting and throwing out the Christians who are saved and living Godly lives.

God should then cease from being a faithful and moral God - just as the eunuchs who have ceased in their marital relations.

God is moral and just and a righteous God because he loves and accepts and stays with all of his bride , God is a just and moral husband.

THE EUNUCHS MENTIONED BY YAHASHUA WAS IN REFERENCE TO A MAN LEAVING HIS WIFE FOR NO GOOD CAUSE

That man should NEVER marry again and remain a eunuch - AS A CASTRATED MAN WITH NO TESTES,

 

[Garee]

All have sinned and continue to fall short of his glory daily. The potential to sin in any manner is there

I would offer all of mankind has the lying power to sin. As soon as born (spiritually dead) the god of this world the father of lies begins his deception.. (Psalm 58:3)

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

As evidence of that lying power In John 8 we are informed that incident in Genesis 4 the first work of the serial murderer Satan the father of lies ( (I know not where my brother is today serial murderers all copy cats. .

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,(Genesis 4) and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Curtis]

Everyone has the propensity to sin because of the sinful nature everyone was born with, but God told Cain that he must master the sin that wanted him.

Gen 4:7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.” (NLT)

Everyone has a certain sin(s) that seem to trip us up at times and we are told to strip them off.

Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. (NLT)