What If I'm Born Gay?

[KingJ]

KingJ -- homosexuality does Not harm God.

With all due respect Sue, this is the silliest statement you have ever made. You are in essence saying God does not feel.

 

[KingJ]

Our salvation will be complete when we are with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit Is indwelling us Now --keeping us safe-- He Won't leave us -- until we Are with Christ. And people Will notice a change in us.

When will people notice a change in us? When we in heaven?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Although this may be an isolated incident, we do not know what goes on behind closed doors, until something serious comes to light.

This is a terrible but true story, what this child experienced is unimaginable, what the Brazilian lesbian couple did is unthinkable.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/17/mum-ripped-off-sons-*****-beheaded-reminded-dad-9974568/

 

[Brother-Paul]

When does sexual sin start for the homosexual or lesbian person?

In the mind, which is well before the sexual act. It is the same principle as the scripture below on adultery.

Matthew 5:27-30 (NKJV)
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

If men have had thoughts and look down the line in the toilets, at other male parts, you have Sinned already!

If men look at other men's bodies, more common now a days due to tighter clothing, if you have those thoughts, you have already Sinned!

The same applies with women looking at other women, if you have those thoughts, you have already Sinned!

Clothes have got smaller, shorter and tighter, making temptation easier and Sin inevitable.

Peoples bodies are no longer precious to the Lord in their eyes, men and women used to cover their bodies, all that changed from 1950 on wards, the worldly attitude being, as repeated many times on TV, the sin box, 'if you have got it flaunt it'. Sinners, encouraging sinners, blind to their sins yet their sins are darker than scarlet.

Anyone who has these tendencies need help, from Saved Bible believing people.

What did Jesus say, over and over again, go and 'Sin No more'

 

[Armin]

Although this may be an isolated incident, we do not know what goes on behind closed doors, until something serious comes to light.

This is a terrible but true story, what this child experienced is unimaginable, what the Brazilian lesbian couple did is unthinkable.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/17/mum-ripped-off-sons-*****-beheaded-reminded-dad-9974568/

This link doesn't work.

 

[Brother-Paul]

This link doesn't work.

It has been understandably edited by admin, with *****, (5 letters) just change that to the poor boys private part.

As the word now showing as ***** was used in the link I couldn't edit it out.

I hope this is alright

 

[B-A-C]

There is a getting to be more nonsense on here.

There are some sins we do unconsciously. We don't plan on doing them, but they happen.

I hit my thumb with a hammer, a word I never meant to say comes out.
A skimpily dressed woman passes by and I glance a little longer than I should have.

There are other sins, we dwell on them We rationalize them. We "practice" them. We plan them. We figure out loopholes for them.
and then... tomorrow we put our plans and thoughts into action. Premeditated willful sin has much higher consequences than accidental sin.
Both are sin to be sure. But there is a difference between sinning, and "living in" sin.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

This verse doesn't say if you've ever done it once, it's over. But it does imply repentance. If you are doing these things, you need to stop. When you are "practicing" them, that means you haven't stopped.

Rom 2:2; And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@B-A-C

I understand what you are saying brother but. To look as skimpy dressed woman longer than you should is not the sin, it is when you look at the shapes of parts and have sexual thoughts.

These things start at a glance and a further or longer glance but sex can be addictive, even in thought, that was why Jesus said what he did regarding adultery. Unfortunately he didn't come across homosexuality or lesbianism or he sure would.

The line is clear, the emphasis Jesus gave was think it you have already sinned.

Blessings

 

[B-A-C]

I understand what you are saying brother but. To look as skimpy dressed woman longer than you should is not the sin, it is when you look at the shapes of parts and have sexual thoughts.

Agreed, I guess I didn't put it that way as well as I could have. The point was, thoughts can be carried too far.

Unfortunately he didn't come across homosexuality or lesbianism

It could be argued that Jesus addressed same sex relationships.

Matt 19:4; And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
Matt 19:5; and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
Matt 19:6; "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark 10:6; "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.
Mark 10:7; "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
Mark 10:8; AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Mark 10:9; "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

The verses above are of course Jesus speaking. Jesus says God created male and female. God didn't create 57 varieties of sexes. You are either male or female period.
There are people born with both physical genitalia. (Hermaphrodites). However there are no cases where both genitalia are functional. Also everyone has either male or female x or y chromosomes.
Also Jesus makes it clear here, only a male and female couple can become "one flesh". Jesus also makes it clear here, only a female can be a wife.

 

[Sue D.]

When will people notice a change in us? When we in heaven?

People Will be noticing that change 'here and now' -- if those changes / if a person is the same After as Before then something has not 'clicked' and the person needs to approached privately and lovingly with concern about their ' smoking, drinking, 'whatever' is still being observed. Maybe it's their bad language. Whatever it Is, that person might Have prayed a prayer or 'whatever' but it was not understood or whatever. There Does need to be more accountability / discipleing being done with those who have recently accepted Christ as Savior.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Sue D. @KingJ

People see a difference in a new believer, on earth, when they are truly born again, when they have accepted Jesus into their hearts and He dwells in them.

For many when no difference is seen, we can tell a tree by it's fruit, the light has not come on, Christ is not in the heart, even though they may be caring people, many do not understand they think they have Jesus in their heart, they have accepted Him in their mind, but not truly repented and asked Him to be their personal saviour.

They are still thinking in earthly terms, weighing it up in the mind and planting the thought in their heart, that is not a new creation, they are still lost souls.

Another reason I find people do not have Jesus in their hearts, but have Him in their minds is because, they want forgiveness, they want eternal life, in effect they want the prize without running the race. God knows the heart when Jesus abides in the heart true repentance has taken place, sins are nailed to the cross, they are saved through the blood of Christ. The Light of Christ dwells in them.

Thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
In the hearts of a truly saved believer whose name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb.

 

[Rad]

I think i can now understand the obsession with the sin of Homosexuality that pervades the minds of some Christians,...... even though it's never mentioned in the Gospels and warrants only one mention in the whole of the NT, some would have us believe its a sin above all others and has a special place of condemnation in Gods eyes, motivated by a combination of righteous indignation and judgement and seemingly hate, not just of the sin, but of the sinner as well....... I have heard it said that we get from our faith what we bring to it, if we come with a heart of Compassion and mercy then that can be found in abundance, if we come with a heart of intolerance and self righteousness, then that can be found as well, and both are certainly in evidence here,...... God found the sins of this world so great, humanitys actions so abhorrent , that he destroyed it all in the great flood, and that come the Day of Judgement, Greed, hypocrisy and an indifference to the sufferings of those in need will condemn many who thought themselves saved , so perhaps we should leave the judgement of the individual where it belongs, in Gods hands, concentrate on recognising and confessing our own sins and through that , being able to see clearly the sins of others.

 

[Sue D.]

When does sexual sin start for the homosexual or lesbian person?

In the mind, which is well before the sexual act. It is the same principle as the scripture below on adultery.

Matthew 5:27-30 (NKJV)
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

If men have had thoughts and look down the line in the toilets, at other male parts, you have Sinned already!

If men look at other men's bodies, more common now a days due to tighter clothing, if you have those thoughts, you have already Sinned!

The same applies with women looking at other women, if you have those thoughts, you have already Sinned!

Clothes have got smaller, shorter and tighter, making temptation easier and Sin inevitable.

Peoples bodies are no longer precious to the Lord in their eyes, men and women used to cover their bodies, all that changed from 1950 on wards, the worldly attitude being, as repeated many times on TV, the sin box, 'if you have got it flaunt it'. Sinners, encouraging sinners, blind to their sins yet their sins are darker than scarlet.

Anyone who has these tendencies need help, from Saved Bible believing people.

What did Jesus say, over and over again, go and 'Sin No more'

When does sexual sin start for Anyone. For one thing, both men and women need to dress more modestly. I've been on the second floor of a mall and looked down and saw more of a woman than she realized as she was walking past on the first floor. Now -- If I'd tried to take a second look or turned and followed her to see if I could see more Again. Then That's a Sin. To see her and think 'lands sakes lady wear a bra the next time.' is not sinning it's acknowledging bad judgement on the part of the woman.

It's taking that Second look that we have control over that's 'sinning'.

Actually -- there's no reason that a homosexual or lesbian person Should look / act differently than anyone else. Unless they're lounging around together in public. Most of the time even married couples or dating couples don't hang on each other in public. But 'we' also know that it just doesn't look 'right' when men are sitting somewhere with an arm around the other one. Or holding hands -- it just doesn't look natural.

 

[Quantrill]

I think i can now understand the obsession with the sin of Homosexuality that pervades the minds of some Christians,...... even though it's never mentioned in the Gospels and warrants only one mention in the whole of the NT, some would have us believe its a sin above all others and has a special place of condemnation in Gods eyes, motivated by a combination of righteous indignation and judgement and seemingly hate, not just of the sin, but of the sinner as well....... I have heard it said that we get from our faith what we bring to it, if we come with a heart of Compassion and mercy then that can be found in abundance, if we come with a heart of intolerance and self righteousness, then that can be found as well, and both are certainly in evidence here,...... God found the sins of this world so great, humanitys actions so abhorrent , that he destroyed it all in the great flood, and that come the Day of Judgement, Greed, hypocrisy and an indifference to the sufferings of those in need will condemn many who thought themselves saved , so perhaps we should leave the judgement of the individual where it belongs, in Gods hands, concentrate on recognising and confessing our own sins and through that , being able to see clearly the sins of others.

Understanding that homosexuality is an abomination to God, is not an obsession. How stupid. It is believing what God has said. Why is it that what God is against is called a 'phobic'? Homophobic...islamaphobic, etc. etc.?

How many times must God say something before you believe it?

Quantrill

 

[B-A-C]

it's never mentioned in the Gospels and warrants only one mention in the whole of the NT,

Hmmmm...

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28; And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

1 Cor 6:8; On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

1 Tim 1:9; realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1 Tim 1:10; and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[B-A-C]

some would have us believe its a sin above all others and has a special place of condemnation in Gods eyes,

I would agree with this, it is no worse than many other sins. Murder, adultery, fornication... etc...

I think i can now understand the obsession with the sin of Homosexuality that pervades the minds of some Christians,.

Could this be because right now the world is so obsessed with it? It is everywhere. Every TV channel, the news, movies, music, televisions, gray pride month, gay pride parades. it is taught in schools.
I agree it would be nice to able to come up for air every once in a while and not have everyone "obsessed" by it.

 

[Sue D.]

As the people in Hollywood started coming 'out of their closets' , more and more people felt it was okay for themselves, personally, to 'come out' -- it was almost a status symbol. And it 'needed' to be okay with the rest of us -- after all the celebrities were looked up to in Society.

Society is looking for any way possible to 'thumb their nose at God'. And there is so little 'love' seen in this world. So Anyone who is a loving person and wants to show their love to another person of the same sex is / should be 'okay'.

And, yes, homosexuality IS everywhere. And someone was suggesting that TV is evil. Shouldn't be watching it. Well -- I guess it depends on what channel is being watched -- what programming is available. It Used to be that when we had Direct TV that we could get Christian preaching on Sundays. And it probably depends on if there are children in the home or teens or adults. I'm old enough to remember when TV had only 3 channels -- it turned off at midnight and on again at 6 am - via the TV stationing itself. At midnight or so maybe even earlier, the National Anthem would play and the screen would be fuzz.

Good family viewing was the norm.

Ever so gradually 'we' are being 'reprogrammed' in our viewing.

the world is being 'obsessed' with evil / over-run by evil. And TV knows how to make 'bad' very attractive. It's not the abusive, drug addicted, fat lesbian / homosexual person that's seen. They are on the younger side, attractive, joking around apparently having a good time and caring about each other. So, it's like -- 'when it looks so good, how could it be really That bad'.

And, well, actually homosexuality being practiced Is worse than those other activities that were listed as sins. It's willingly using our bodies in ways never intended by God.

But -- it's Also true that being tempted By those thoughts / practices is Not sin in and of itself. We need to be checking our own hearts / thought lives.

 

[KingJ]

even though it's never mentioned in the Gospels and warrants only one mention in the whole of the NT,

If that is what you tell yourself when on your knees working out your salvation in fear and trembling before God, I am betting you utterly fail or don't grasp the 'fear and trembling' part of Phil 2:12.

Pedophilia is fine, it was only mentioned once on the news this whole year.

some would have us believe its a sin above all others and has a special place of condemnation in Gods eyes, motivated by a combination of righteous indignation and judgement and seemingly hate, not just of the sin, but of the sinner as well....... I have heard it said that we get from our faith what we bring to it, if we come with a heart of Compassion and mercy then that can be found in abundance, if we come with a heart of intolerance and self righteousness, then that can be found as well, and both are certainly in evidence here,...... God found the sins of this world so great, humanitys actions so abhorrent , that he destroyed it all in the great flood, and that come the Day of Judgement, Greed, hypocrisy and an indifference to the sufferings of those in need will condemn many who thought themselves saved , so perhaps we should leave the judgement of the individual where it belongs, in Gods hands, concentrate on recognising and confessing our own sins and through that , being able to see clearly the sins of others.

You are selectively reading lines in peoples posts to you.

The great flood and fire and brimstone on Sodom were not due to there being ''sin''. That is terrible discernment. There has been sin since Adam and Eve. Sin in almost every thought we have....since Adam and Eve.

Sodom was guilty of grievous sins Gen 18:20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.

I have explained the difference between mortal and venial sins in this thread. Only those who want to justify their sin will disagree with me. ''I am a pedophile, everyone has sin, God judges me the same''. Uhm no. The sin you are in points to...how....much you hate what is righteous. If you hate what is righteous, you hate God Rom 12:9. If you hate God at an extremity, your time on earth is limited. Your intention to desire being ''sold out to sin'' is becoming clearer to you and God.

By the way, this is a thread on ''being born gay''. We can discuss other sins, open threads on them.

Your 'don't judge' insinuation is also bad discernment. A spiritual man judges ALL things 1 Cor 2:15. Sentencing is in God's hands. Nobody here is sentencing gays to hell. We are saying, it is a mortal sin. One that God utterly hates. Your future looks bad unless you repent and stop it immediately.

Your lines are common. You are saying nothing new. Every sinner tries to justify their sin and tell ''Christians'' not to judge. Such silly arguments to raise. A very weak defense.

 

[KingJ]

People Will be noticing that change 'here and now' -- if those changes / if a person is the same After as Before then something has not 'clicked' and the person needs to approached privately and lovingly with concern about their ' smoking, drinking, 'whatever' is still being observed. Maybe it's their bad language. Whatever it Is, that person might Have prayed a prayer or 'whatever' but it was not understood or whatever. There Does need to be more accountability / discipleing being done with those who have recently accepted Christ as Savior.

So you are certain they will notice a change now. Glad to hear. Now you need to grasp what that change is exactly.

''Maybe'' its their bad language. ''Whatever it is''. Sue what words are these?

IT IS an immediate HALT to grievous sins, showing the fruits of the Spirit and desiring daily repentence. That is what happens when you become a Christian. All those sins that God ordained the death penalty for in the OT, a Christian will NEVER live in. Unless they think Christianity is marriage to the devil.

 

[KingJ]

@Sue D. @KingJ

People see a difference in a new believer, on earth, when they are truly born again, when they have accepted Jesus into their hearts and He dwells in them.

For many when no difference is seen, we can tell a tree by it's fruit, the light has not come on, Christ is not in the heart, even though they may be caring people, many do not understand they think they have Jesus in their heart, they have accepted Him in their mind, but not truly repented and asked Him to be their personal saviour.

They are still thinking in earthly terms, weighing it up in the mind and planting the thought in their heart, that is not a new creation, they are still lost souls.

Another reason I find people do not have Jesus in their hearts, but have Him in their minds is because, they want forgiveness, they want eternal life, in effect they want the prize without running the race. God knows the heart when Jesus abides in the heart true repentance has taken place, sins are nailed to the cross, they are saved through the blood of Christ. The Light of Christ dwells in them.

Thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
In the hearts of a truly saved believer whose name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb.

Agreed, we know someone by their fruits.

If Paul continued in the mortal sin of murder after his encounter with Jesus, nobody would have seen fruits of change. Christians saw fruits of change because they saw a person who no longer wanted to murder them. Not that they saw a ''perfect person''. Just one no longer in ''mortal / grievous'' sin and operating with the fruits of the spirit.

The problem Christians have in reaching those in mortal sin is that no amount of love / operating in the Spirit is accepted by them if they cling to their sin. People crucified Jesus when He healed them and shared all the ''fruits of the Spirit' with them.