What If I'm Born Gay?

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- and That is exactly what I've been saying -- that we know someone by their fruits. And no two people are the same. I don't have the same temptations that You do. Before I became a born-again believer there were things in my life that would be different and the same in Other people's lives that needed changing.

Your terms 'mortal' compared to 'venial' sins. That's RCC terminology. You brought up Paul -- he Had been a major murdered / persecutor of Christians. God chose to stop him in his tracks quite literally -- Paul acknowledged God and God changed him from being a murderer / persecutor to Not and he was used by God to write the prison epistles. And he experienced ship wreck and all sort of calamities in the process of continuing to live his life for Christ. Do you realize how Long it took people to Trust Paul to Not still be going after Christians? along time. He began associating with other Godly men and after a while , people began to trust his motives.

The episode / life of Paul -- his life Before and his life After Is to show us that God can use anyone with any background to do His Will.

God Also can take a guy who's Been foul-mouthed drunk -- and with someone sharing the Gospel with him and the man acknowledging his personal need and accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- Will be having his foul-mouth cleaned up and no long be a drunk. Because the Holy Spirit coming to indwell him will replace Those things with the Positives of the Christian life.

Brother Paul's very first sentence - yes. Exactly what I was saying.

And, yes , there Are probably a Lot of good people who truly believe they Are okay, Because they've been taught a works-based salvation. We were talking about that in Bible Study last evening. People have a hard time accepting the simplicity Of salvation. There are several systems that attaches Stuff to salvation. That a person would need to go to daily / weekly confession to the priest -= He in turn would tell them to say a certain # of hail Mary's or 'whatever' to be forgiven of those sins. There was No security of their salvation. There's a formerly strong RCC lady in our Bible study now. She came to faith in Christ and has really been in to Scripture. I also was in Tractor Supply in town yesterday -- she had Also been of that denomination and had come to truly resent it. Meaning that when people start reading their Bible on their own -- Many times they will realize the simplicity Of salvation -- their need Of salvation and accept Him.

Believers Do need to be reaching out to other's With salvation -- but it's the Holy Spirit who actually does the inner changing. Every single one of us has been in some amount of Sinning Period. It's the Holy Spirit's convicting of them their need / that is either accepted or rejected. And some of us Do cling to our sinfulness for a while -- but eventually 'we' Do acknowledge our need and Do accept Jesus Christ. In fact, that Was Me for a while. I'd had a wonderful head knowledge of Bible / salvation, but hadn't applied it Personally, in my heart -- I'd always been shy and in a Big church back then, I thought a person had to walk that aisle to get to the pastor in order to be talked with and brought to Christ. And I remember standing 'rivetted' to my seat in that pew -- I resisted and resisted. A battle going on inside me for quite a while before pastor assured all of us that a person could accept Christ 'right where you are'. And I DID, and it made all the difference in the world. The immediate inner peace. I was more relaxed. I was now concerned about others that I hadn't been before. I knew I needed to be baptized again, because the first time I wasn't truly a believer. But I never felt it was attached To my salvation. It was simply my first step in obedience.

'we' are not crucifying Jesus Christ ourselves. He's already done that. We Are realizing that He Did die For me and took away the 'desire' for sin. He Has replace that with a desire to please God. Does a person continually please God in every action every day? Probably not. Because we still have the human nature in us. But the more we are around other believers, and are in His Word and around the spiritual Christian encouragement , the stronger we get.

Going to church has been part of my 'routine' for years. For a few months some years ago -- I was at home during Sunday services and found Dr. David Jeremiah on TV. It was a long drive to the church I'd Been going to and my system needed shorter trips. So I started going locally again. Christian fellowship Is important.

Your very last sentence -- Jesus healed people physically to show them that there was something more powerful than they. the lame became able to walk -- the blind to see again. Jesus began to have a bigger and bigger following. 'Who Is This Man'. They were changed, yes, they were happy and went to tell others. But the Holy Spirit didn't come and continued to come to people After the Day of Pentecost.

 

[KingJ]

Does a person continually please God in every action every day? Probably not. Because we still have the human nature in us.

Human nature or not. Paul would ''never'' had returned to murdering Christians after he accepted (key word) Jesus. If he rejected Jesus, yes it would be expected. Because he accepted Jesus, all grievous sin stopped. Homosexuality is a grievous sin. When a we accept Jesus, we likewise outright ''stop'' all grievous sin.

If Paul continued in his grievous sin nobody would be lead to the Lord by him. Nobody would say he is a Christian. If Paul let out some swear words, people would not doubt his Christianity. If Paul committed adultery or stole food from an orphan or murdered another Christian, everybody would doubt his Christianity. This is ''not'' rocket science.

We all need to grasp some key verses 1 Cor 11:31 If you would judge yourself truthfully, God would not judge you and Phil 2:12 Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

See these scriptures point to us judging ourselves. Examining ourselves. Ensuring we are a Christian as 2 Cor 3:15 also explains. Now, when I judge myself. I can repent of lessor sins easily. I stumble a lot with thoughts. Swear words. Watching scenes on television that I should probably fast forward through. But were I too commit a sin that God ordained the death penalty for in the OT. Yeah, I would fail that self judgement session. I would need to go the extra ninety yards to trust my repentance be sincere. As the greater sins point to a love of what is wicked. People reject Jesus and will go to hell because they ''love the darkness'' John 3:19. It is as simple as that. The depth of intent to commit said sin is great. That is why Paul would ''NEVER'' go back to his grievous (key word) sin.

 

[Sue D.]

@ King J. -- of course he wouldn't have returned to murdering / persecuting Christians. He was 'now' a believer himself. And , obviously he didn't reject Christ. Yes, THAT particular action on his part Did stop. Sin is Sin -- we were all born with the propensity For it. Whether it be a little white lie or purposely speeding on the highway because we're in a hurry. I've never been caught speeding, cause I've ended up looking down at my speedometer and slowing down -- as it happens -- just before the patrol car sitting on the other side of the curved highway caught me on his radar. I've not be purposely speeding. In fact I tend to go a bit Under the posted limit. Everyone is guilty of bad attitude at times. Or impatience.

I can be a once in a while 'something' person and Still be used by God to comfort someone or share the plan of salvation with them. And you're contradicting yourself in that short paragraph. about "If Paul continued in his grievous sin.......that Nobody would be led to the Lord by him. Yet you continue to say that he Could swear a few words, he would be okay , no one would doubt his salvation. Yet. If he committed adultery or stole food from an orphan that everyone would doubt his Christianity. But Scripture says we are Not to profane God's name. Or is it okay to say a few cuss words as long as we're not taking God's name in vain?

Murdering a Christian -- probably depends on the set of circumstances. Yes, murder is against the 10 commandments. But courts of law determine if it's accidental murder or purposeful murder. Is it premeditated or planned on murder. Even Scripture says there's a difference. The sanctuary cities in the Old Testament.

That one verse says that we are Not likely To judge ourselves.

We Are to make sure we Are saved. Taking our sinfulness, seriously, God's judgement seriously. Our need For salvation Seriously. Is 'our' life really reflecting Jesus Christ living within us?

We Are to ask forgiveness for our sins as we realize we're doing wrong things. And ask God to point out whatever needs to be fixed in our lives. It's our personal relationship with God that we want to keep good.

As a child and growing up into adulthood -- My Dad was pretty much in the background. Never really had a 'close' relationship with him. So I relate to God the Father in pretty much the same way. No doubt at all in my heart that God Is my Heavenly Father.

And Maybe we need to censor more what we Are watching so we Don't have to speed ahead. Earlier today there was a segment on the news that truly sickened me. I changed channels.

 

[Rad]

Understanding that homosexuality is an abomination to God, is not an obsession. How stupid. It is believing what God has said. Why is it that what God is against is called a 'phobic'? Homophobic...islamaphobic, etc. etc.?

How many times must God say something before you believe it?

Quantrill

As usual Quantrill your gracious comments are a joy to behold,...... i pray that your sins are judged with the same Mercy and Compassion you have shown here for the sins of others, truly Gods Love dwells within your Soul.

 

[Rad]

Hmmmm...

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28; And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

1 Cor 6:8; On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

1 Tim 1:9; realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1 Tim 1:10; and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

I stand corrected, it wasn't mentioned once in the Gospels but is mentioned four times in the rest of the NT, not once as i said, surely this is the strongest indicator of Gods Abhorrence of this detestable sin,...... Hmmmm, strange Christ never mentioned it , even once, but yeh, there it is, ....... and who amongst us is a "Righteous person", are we not ALL miserable sinners, in dire need of Gods forgiveness and Grace,....... but there are many sins that Christ mentioned, mentioned them many times, but for some reason they rarely get a hearing amongst the "Righteous" people, sins of Greed, Injustice, and indifference to the sufferings of others that are woven into our daily existence living as we do in Rich and powerful countries, but then i guess its easier, and far safer to highlight the sins of others, especially those on the margins and easily persecuted,..... yeh for sure, pile up those stones and fire away.

 

[Rad]

If that is what you tell yourself when on your knees working out your salvation in fear and trembling before God, I am betting you utterly fail or don't grasp the 'fear and trembling' part of Phil 2:12.

Pedophilia is fine, it was only mentioned once on the news this whole year.

You are selectively reading lines in peoples posts to you.

The great flood and fire and brimstone on Sodom were not due to there being ''sin''. That is terrible discernment. There has been sin since Adam and Eve. Sin in almost every thought we have....since Adam and Eve.

Sodom was guilty of grievous sins Gen 18:20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.

I have explained the difference between mortal and venial sins in this thread. Only those who want to justify their sin will disagree with me. ''I am a pedophile, everyone has sin, God judges me the same''. Uhm no. The sin you are in points to...how....much you hate what is righteous. If you hate what is righteous, you hate God Rom 12:9. If you hate God at an extremity, your time on earth is limited. Your intention to desire being ''sold out to sin'' is becoming clearer to you and God.

By the way, this is a thread on ''being born gay''. We can discuss other sins, open threads on them.

Your 'don't judge' insinuation is also bad discernment. A spiritual man judges ALL things 1 Cor 2:15. Sentencing is in God's hands. Nobody here is sentencing gays to hell. We are saying, it is a mortal sin. One that God utterly hates. Your future looks bad unless you repent and stop it immediately.

Your lines are common. You are saying nothing new. Every sinner tries to justify their sin and tell ''Christians'' not to judge. Such silly arguments to raise. A very weak defense.

I don't try to "work out my Salvation", i try to follow what i believe to be the Commandments of Christ, not for Salvation, but because of Love, love of God and Love of others, if you're a Christian only for what you can get out of it, you're in the wrong game my friend, ........ Sodom and the World were full of grievous sin, they were both destroyed,...... so anyone that disagrees with you is looking to "justify" their sins, i'm not looking to justify any of my sins, and they are for God to judge , not you, unless of course you consider yourself in a position so to do,...... if you read my post properly, i said " the judgement of the individual", not the sin itself, we all judge actions, but it seems to me its the spirit in which we judge thats all too important, do we recognise the Log in our own eyes and deal with that first, do we come in a spirit of humility,mercy and compassion, or do we come as some do, with Hate, self righteousness and rabid condemnation in their hearts, ....... i have read posts such as yours many times before, always puts me in mind of Christ saying, " Many will say to me in that day, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name, and cast out Devils and done many wonderful works", and i will say unto them "I knew you not, depart from me you that work iniquity"....... for on that final day how many that regard themselves as Righteous and Godly will be left wanting.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Member @Quantrill
Continue to use words that you know full well agitate, for which you have been warned about previously by me, and you will be banned from replying in this thread period. The subject is contentious enough without adding fuel to. An intelligent person should be able to communicate their thoughts in words that are not abusive in nature. You can correct a person and disagree with them without their usage. Whether that person is a believer or not.

Moderator
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

Referring to #186 -- part of what KingJ. apparently said was being quoted by Rad -- and under a comment made that pedophilia was only mentioned once in the news this year, so it's okay. and then it Looks like something was printed out in 'white' and can't be read. Something about 'you are selectively reading......' can Barely read That part but not the rest of the comment.

Is that sarcasm about the pedophilia -- I hope So -- but on a serious note -- pedophilia is horrible. It's a sick mind that allows men to be attracted to boys and act on it. And the affect it has on the boys is horrible as well. Actually, in the news -- it's been rampant in the RCC.

King J. -- maybe you Have explained the difference between mortal and venial sins. I just looked that up -- it's big in the RCC. But a person needs to be careful about what's being included in the canon of Scripture -- apparently it's part of 1 and 2 Macabees. Which apparently is great with some Jewish history but weak in other areas or it would be included in Scripture. And that's the same source for the belief of purgatory which the rest of Scripture contradicts. But That's another subject.

Isn't the basis of Scripture that Jesus Christ has died for All sins and sinners. A persons' Rejection of salvation leaves them with Nothing but eternity in lake of fire and brimstone. So - while a person is still alive and able to understand and communicate -- that person Can accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior. We are to take Everything to God -- whatever is on our mind / heart.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother @Armin
I have a question to ask you. My apologies if you've already answered this.

Do you identify yourself as being Homosexual instead of just a sinner?

I ask this because most people would identify themselves in the generic term of "sinner", unless they are attempting to show/make a point. One can state that an "urge" to do something is what they feel at any particular moment, but the urge is not who anyone is. At least not as one who has been saved by the Blood of the Lamb, our Lord Jesus Christ. I state this, because to do otherwise is to give power/credence if you will to the "Old" you and not the "New Creature" that you are in Jesus (2 Cor 5:17).

The battle between the "Flesh" and the "Spirit" is one that is ongoing for most believers. The thoughts that one should take captive (2 Cor 10:5), are pervasive in these days, because of everything that our minds are inundated with on a daily basis. That is why even a video that was shared in the opening of this thread with good intent, can engender such emotions and create conflicts even in the Body of Christ.

So, I asked the above question not to pigeon hole you in anyway, but hopefully in a fashion, allow you to see the influences "Sin" has in every ones life, and how the World can deceive even the most learned into believing that acceptance of a condition, though not acted upon, is still, something that is tied to the "Flesh" and should have no part of who we are in Christ Jesus. A battle for sure, and not easy, but one worth having and going through if we are to get closer to being as our Lord and Savior Jesus was/is. Are we the sins we've committed and may even battle all the way to our last breath the temptations to not succumb to? I don't believe so Brother and won't give in to even suggesting so. I truly hope if not in the same word usage, that you feel the same.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Quantrill]

As usual Quantrill your gracious comments are a joy to behold,...... i pray that your sins are judged with the same Mercy and Compassion you have shown here for the sins of others, truly Gods Love dwells within your Soul.

Truly you didn't answer the question.

Quantrill

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 17:28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luke 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.

Jesus is speaking here, He is talking about the last days. He is comparing them to "the days of Lot" here. Jesus don't actually say "homosexual", but He does specifically mention Sodom and Gommorah.
What was the primary sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? I'll give you a hint, the word sodomy comes from this. Jesus says God rained down fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah.
Jesus says this is going to happen again in the future. Just "as it happened in the days of Lot". This tells me it was an actual historical event, not just some abstract of made up society.
Jesus says this actually happened.... and it's going to happen again. (on the day that the Son of Man is revealed).
Jesus is saying here, yes Sodom and Gomorrah got wiped out in the OT, it's not going to be any different for people living that way in the NT.

Matt 19:4; And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
Matt 19:5; and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
Matt 19:6; "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Jesus also makes it clear here that God made males and females. "For this reason" a man will joined to his wife. Jesus specifically says male and female. In the next verse
He specifically says "a man" and "his wife". He doesn't say "a woman and her wife", and he doesn't say "a man and his husband".
The only way to correlate male and female here, is "a man" and "his wife".

Jesus says any sexual relationship outside of marriage is sin. If only a man can be "a man", and if only a woman can be "a wife". That means that there
can never be a same sex marriage in Gods eyes.

 

[KingJ]

I don't try to "work out my Salvation",

Scripture says you must Phil 2:12. God gave us an intelligence level that can grasp what is right and wrong as He and the angels do Gen 3:22. We are more then able to judge ourselves 1 Cor 11:31. As Christians we can judge all matters and do so better then the unsaved 1 Cor 6:1-9. So people like you who propose we don't are in error. I have spoken to many like you. I am not sure of your actual beliefs, but you are speaking the same language as those who want to ''tolerate sin, not correct those en route to hell, call sin = sin to justify others sin''. Remember it is our duty to reach out and save someone from hell. Jesus said to the woman about to be stoned for adultery ''go and sin no more''.

i try to follow what i believe to be the Commandments of Christ, not for Salvation, but because of Love, love of God and Love of others,

''Love''. It is just ridiculous what some peoples' view of love is. If you love God you will obey His commandments 1 John 5:3. Now Jesus sums up the commandments in two. 1. Love God. 2. Love neighbor as yourself. Loving God is respecting for example those OT laws He ordained that affect Him directly and not others. God does not change. If something upset Him in the OT it upsets Him now. The laws specific to Him only, are laws like keeping the Sabbath, idolatry and respecting our bodies. Not using them disrespectfully. Men lying with men and going against the natural purpose of their bodies.....is literally pulling the middle finger to God. If anyone says otherwise they have NO LOVE for God. Children are exempt. God spared all twenty and under in the wilderness on one occasion. But adults twenty one and older, know better. God does consider everything. He is not a fool. But for me, being someone who committed sexual sin, I knew I was pushing the envelope with God before I ever got saved.

 

[KingJ]

and they are for God to judge , not you,

You are not grasping the context of Matt 7:1. We can all judge. A Christian judges all things 1 Cor 2:15. A Christian '''WELCOMES'' judgement. Judgement and correction is building each other up. Watching each others backs. Love. We are to confess our sins to one another James 5:16. We don't sentence. God sentences.

do we recognise the Log in our own eyes and deal with that first,

We always have a log in our eye. We always have sin. Did you not read a single line from me on mortal vs venial sins? The sins of Sodom were '''grievous'' Gen 18:20. Do you think Noah was without sin? Jonah?

People living in grievous sin not wanting to change, or those '''Christians'' wanting to be 'people pleases' and fail on Prov 27:6 say ''do not judge''. My judgement is not out of self righteousness. It is out of love and concern for fellow man. As I have said ''many'' times, the sins we are in point to our love of sin. If we are in a mortal sin, our love of sin is great. It is because people ''love sin'' that they reject Jesus and will go to eternal hell John 3:19.

do we come in a spirit of humility,mercy and compassion, or do we come as some do, with Hate, self righteousness and rabid condemnation in their hearts, ....... i have read posts such as yours many times before, always puts me in mind of Christ saying, " Many will say to me in that day, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name, and cast out Devils and done many wonderful works", and i will say unto them "I knew you not, depart from me you that work iniquity"....... for on that final day how many that regard themselves as Righteous and Godly will be left wanting.

I can promise you that Matt 7:22 type Christians do not care about your sin, your fast track to hell. They are only interested in themselves. Read it properly. ''Cast out demons, prophecy, wonderful works'', it all speaks to pride. To self.

We contrast Matt 7:22 type Christians with James 1:27. We must be James 1:27 Christians. We must be 1 John 5:3 Christians! We must be 1 Cor 11:31 Christians. We must be Pro 27:6 Christians!! ''Wounds from a friend can be trusted but an enemy multiplies kisses''.

 

[KingJ]

Isn't the basis of Scripture that Jesus Christ has died for All sins and sinners. A persons' Rejection of salvation leaves them with Nothing but eternity in lake of fire and brimstone.

Why does someone reject salvation?

 

[Brother-Paul]

@KingJ

Many people reject salvation, I did for many years.

It is the only Free Gift that people find hard to accept or don't accept.

Mention Free Gift for anything else and there is a queue for what ever it is, even if it is of little value or use.

Those who reject the Free Gift of Salvation fall into two categories, those who will go to hell or those that are brought to their knees.

Hope you don't mind me adding to your conversation with Sue D.

Peace be with you brother.

 

[B-A-C]

Many people reject salvation, I did for many years.

It is the only Free Gift that people find hard to accept or don't accept.

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

It seems that "many" is more than a "few". Someone asked Jesus... are just a "few" people going to be saved? This was His answer.

Luk 13:23; And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luk 13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luk 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'

It says here many will "seek to enter" but will not be able. It seems the majority of people will not be saved.
But keep this context... for example...

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

A great multitude seems to conflict with "a few". But consider this, if the population of the earth is around 7 billion people, and let us (for sake of argument) say that only 20% of them get saved.
That's still 1.4 billion people.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Over the years there have been those who hadn't heard the Word and of Salvation, before the printing of the Bible the Roman Catholic Church carried the Word, not all in Truth up to the Reformation as we know, and not all Truth even to this day.

But if only 10% are saved there will still be 70 million people that is still a great multitude that no one could count.

As we write and look at the 20% you stated as an example, and the 10% which I stated as an example, I cannot help but think back to Sodom and Gomorrah brother. But we need not be concerned, scripture is clear, there will be a Great Multitude, and their names are in the Book of Life and the Lamb. PTL \o/

Thanks be to God in Jesus Name. Amen

 

[B-A-C]

We may have diverged into "free-will" here. But in a way that goes along with this thread... what if I'm born gay? You still have a choice.

Matt 16:24;
(HCSB) Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wants to come with Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.
(KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(MKJV) Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.
(NAS77) Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
(NASB) Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

I like how this verse is worded... if anyone "wants", if anyone "desires", if anyone "wishes", ... King James says... if any man "will".
It's your will. Your own free-will. You can choose to be gay, or you can choose not to.
You can choose to follow Jesus, or you can choose not to.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@B-A-C

Wants seems to be the most common translation, we want to accept Jesus or we do not want, the choice being in the statement, If anyone wants to.

Good post brother.

Here are some additional translations, New Living Translation, Complete Jewish Translation and New Jerusalem Bible Translation.

Matthew 16:24 (NLT2)
24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:24 (CJB)
24 Then Yeshua told his talmidim, “If anyone wants to come after me, let him say ‘No’ to himself, take up his execution-stake, and keep following me.

Matthew 16:24 (NJB)
24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ

Many people reject salvation, I did for many years.

It is the only Free Gift that people find hard to accept or don't accept.

Mention Free Gift for anything else and there is a queue for what ever it is, even if it is of little value or use.

Those who reject the Free Gift of Salvation fall into two categories, those who will go to hell or those that are brought to their knees.

Hope you don't mind me adding to your conversation with Sue D.

Peace be with you brother.

Add all you want, enjoy discussions with you.

I don't believe anyone rejects / will reject salvation. 1. Salvation is not something offered to be accepted or rejected and 2. If you told someone option A) heaven via salvation or option B) Hell with no salvation, every single person will choose option A.

Salvation is a free gift to the whomsoever will ….repent Psalm 51:17. Accept Jesus Rev 3:20. Make Him Lord of your lfe Matt 16:24.

The risk of teaching we accept or reject salvation / a free gift is that we can think we are ''miraculously lucky''. We are covered for our sin by a free gift that we were lucky enough to accept. We were lucky to be in the 'right' religion. We were lucky to know the bible. We were lucky to hear about Jesus and have the opportunity to believe in this 'magical miracle'.

No person in grievous sin is covered by the blood of Jesus because no person continuing in grievous sin would ever be washed by the blood of Jesus / receive salvation. God does not wash a devil who does not want to truly repent.

God gives us a revelation of Jesus 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. We don't just decide to ''believe'' in Jesus. God washes us clean and makes us new creations. This we cannot do ourselves. That is why it is a free gift to those who ''want Him'' and not ''it''.