What if you die tonight?

[PloughBoy]

So you'd wake up either in heaven or hell. You Do know how to be able to have the new glorified body or end up in Hades / Sheol.

“Remember Faith is THE Substance of things “HOPE” for, The Evidence of Things Not seen.
And

22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

You see a lot Christian Know they are going

But We Have “HOPE” and not a worldly hope. A HOPE that The world and Lots of Christian’s know nothing about.

For This HOPE I am speaking about is “Anthropomorphic”. For only a “ Child of GOD” can rest on. I will take the HOPE of GOD over knowing any day concerning This Matter.

 

[Garee]

So you'd wake up either in heaven or hell. You Do know how to be able to have the new glorified body or end up in Hades / Sheol.

There is no life after one takes the last breath for a unbeliever . Death is the wage that is appointed to mankind to die once . No second trial or double jeopardy .

Hell is the daily sufferings we experience in these bodies of death.

The unbelieving Jew as a hierarchy of men lording it over the non venerable pew sitters understanding (the abomination of desolation ) and passed it on to the Catholics as a law of the fathers ( oral tradition of men) to be used in the purgatory doctrine more more and more sufferings with no end it sight

Therefore doing despite to the grace of God . In that way they thought could commune with the dead called patron saints officially (3,500) and the number keeps getting added to as a law of men.

 

[Sue D.]

So you believe in purgatory. Where is that found in Bible

 

[Garee]

So you believe in purgatory. Where is that found in Bible

Thanks .Its a little work but I hope worth a persons time

That's not what I believe (sufferings after one dies with no end in sight)

Purgatory I would call the wondering doctrine . . never coming to end of faith the salvation of one soul .

Born again believers receive it the end from the beginning of hearing the gospel

But what those who do despite the fullness of God grace the price of redemption say?

Not all oral traditons as heresies (personal commentaries, called private interpretation) are damnable or judgeable. It reveals those not walking in the light.

They as a law of the fathers (a government of men) teach that all other private interpretations (heresies) other than their own oral traditons as a law of the fathers (venerable men lording it over the faith of the non vereable). . . are damnable .so that men might seek their approval and not that of God.

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

They teach as a law of the fathers that only what they call queen of heaven naming her Mary received the fullness of grace the price of salvation. Making her the source of mercy calling her the mother of mercy . And .all others received a u known remnant and must continue to surfer even after they take their last breath again as a unknown wonderment.

If you look to the foundation of queens in heaven Its was passed on from the unbelieving Jews (no faith) coming from God as it is written in the Old Testament. (sola scriptura )

The unbelieving Jewish women gathered themselves together as one voice desiring to be liberated from the hearing of the word of God ( the true liberation authroity for men and woman ) a hope of restoring virtue lost in the garden. And the women demanded of the men a female deity a queen of heaven . The Jewish unbelieving men like Adam did not protect the woman typified as the bride of Christ when virtue was lost .


Jerimiah 44: 15 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

God is not served by humans hands a hierarchy of sinners as a will in any way shape or form . No sufferings after one talks their last breath

 

[Sue D.]

We have the episode of the deaths of both Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man woke up in Hades / Sheol ànd was I torment. Àsked for a drop of water on his tongue. He realized that he was their 'forever'. He asked Abraham's to go warn his brothers because he realized.that they were headed to the same place. But he was told that they were responsible for themselves.

 

[Garee]

We have the episode of the deaths of both Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man woke up in Hades / Sheol ànd was I torment. Àsked for a drop of water on his tongue. He realized that he was their 'forever'. He asked Abraham's to go warn his brothers because he realized.that they were headed to the same place. But he was told that they were responsible for themselves.

Remember that when Christ spoke without parables he spoke not. Luke is not an exception. That parable has nothing to do literally describing hell. The tongue is one of the first things that shrivels and returns to the dust. And the idea of drinking literal water disappears .

Tongues used for speech and water represents the gospel .the parable is clearly describing the law no man can serve two good teaching masters as one Lord

Luke 16: 13 No servant can serve two (teaching ) masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God (wisdom) and mammon.(the wisdom of the world)

There it uses mammon as wordily wisdom. and compares it to the wisdom of God all things written in the law and prophets or in the same way Moses who represent the law and prophets. the prophets represent the testimony of the law .Describing the law of faith as one prefect law working by two .

In proverbs another kind of parable we are informed to buy the truth written in the law and prophets and not sell it but with it get the unseen understanding hid from the unbelieving world


Luke 16: 13-16 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets (The richness of God's word ) were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Three times in that chapter he exercises the law of faith both Moses and (or with) the prophets; let them hear them. (sola scriptura) Not give them a drink of water but a drink of the gospel .

Again two different teaching masters necromancy seeking the dead for the living (patron saints) And to seek as a living God for the dead .
Its companion parable found in Isiah 8 the spiritual unseen understanding of parable must be compared to the spiritual .Not the literal to the literal .Then its makes no sense , again literal bodies shrivel away.

Note . . the word seek below Darash defined as necromancy or when seeking God . The law of faith . Moses and the prophet or the law and its testimony as in let there be (law) and it was good (testimony) used that way throughout the Bible

Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the (its ) testimony: (one thing) if they speak not according to this word (singular) , it is because there is no light in them.


.

 

[Rhema]

Yah, I deserve that!

Well you did come down a bit hard on Sue, with uh... shaky footing, you ... you MMA champion

I have not been reading Greek for almost a year,

I'm blessed with having software (and a hard cover NT) where both English and Greek are side by side so ... it's "less friction" to double check before I lambaste someone.

No, because in my mind it has been demonstrated to be jacked up through the latin,

Erasmus only "back translated" from Latin for the last portion of the book of Revelation, so ... the seven Greek manuscripts he used were rather intact in other places, albeit not as complete a representative sample of Greek mss. as what we have today. (See Daniel Wallace's work on gathering and collating Greek mss.)

... to ascertain which one is the most accurate, ...

Well the Church of the East would claim that the Peshitta, as preserved by the Apostle Thomas and written in Aramaic, has primacy over any Greek copy. But ... again it's an assertion that remain unproven (as with Paul writing Hebrews).

But why Westcott Hort (a compilation), and not Vaticanus or Sinaiticus as a singular source? I'm surprised you hadn't posted "Nestle-Aland".

Sorry, please consider this rhetorical, as it's way off OP.

so (again) I have really nothing to do with it.

Yet as the basis for Martin Luther's translation and that of the KJV, the Textus Receptus rather can't be just thrown out... tossed aside.

No one gets saved just because they believe, that is false doctrine.

Oh dear... then (maybe a new thread) one will have to deal with this passage:

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.​

(Acts 16:30-31 KJV)​

Isn't the main thrust of Calvinism that the individual person has already been chosen to be saved prior to the universe even having been created, and has nothing to do with an individual's belief?

Again, please let us consider this rhetorical for the sake of the OP.

... which is why I prefer a thought-for-thought rendering...

I don't think I have a problem with that. What a I do have a problem with is ADDING IN WORDS.

It is neither a paraphrase nor a bad one, it is a thought-for-thought rendering of the Greek.

(You added in words... at least admit that to yourself.. yes?)

Remember, we are to take in rendering the Greek according to the thought on the subject from the entire Scriptures, not just the one text.

NO. Certainly not. Then you have every author putting words into each other author's mouth. One needs to let MATTHEW speak for Matthew, and PAUL for Paul, and JAMES for James.

What you get is something like what the NIV did --- you get a cultist translation that twists the words of each individual author to achieve a group-think.

Where in the Bible does it say that "we are to take in ... thought on the subject from the entire Scriptures"? This is bringing a Theological Presupposition into the process of translation. I find that disturbing, nay, frightening.

... if we leave it at that (using only the single text), then we can completely butcher the intended meaning of the text.

So you're sitting there telling me that Paul is unable to write an epistle to the church at Colosse that cannot be understood without them having read Romans or all the other epistles ?? If such is true, then Paul made a HUGE glaring blunder writing individual epistles at all... He should have just written ONE single document, editing and revising and adding as he went along,

And Matthew, Mark, and Luke (and well, even John and Thomas for that matter) ought to have formed a committee to produce a single agreed upon document.

I just cannot agree with that presupposition.

You don't even do that in your own life, so why in the world would you dogmatically do it with what is truly Life?

That's almost like saying that you can't understand my single individual posts without having read all the posts I have ever made. Again, I find that problematic.

You need to stop with the "higher intellect" nonsense...

So then let's all dumb things down like the public education system in America does ...

...or do you belong to one of those apostate churches?

So then the answer to being called out on threats is to insult ??

C'mon @Shaolin - you can do better.

Nah, I am closer to a modalistic monarchianism...

Exactly... that view presents the human body of Jesus as just a meat puppet for the PERSON of the Father.

WAIT... STOP... I have been requested by the moderators to not participate in discussions of the Trinity. So please can we put a pin in this before both of us get spanked.

There is only one God, Yahweh. And for different theological reasons, He manifests Himself to mankind three different ways:

Exactly, that's NOT Trinitarian.... "ways" ... The Doctrine of the Trinity demands the use of the word "Persons" (three persons).

If need be PLEASE let us move this to a PM. At this point, I cannot reply to any further posts on the Trinity.

God bless,
Rhema

(Sometimes I think no one can understand what Paul wrote if one hadn't been there in person.)

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hi Nick, I recall a similar if not an exact post like this months ago, but don't have the time to track it down and "fact check".

Dear Rhema,
From the same member or another?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rhema]

Cause once a person is dead it's to late to change their mind.

???

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;​

(1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV)​

I'm pretty sure the Baptists preach that Jesus went and saved souls out of hell.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Dear Rhema,
From the same member or another?

Hi Nick,

Based upon the "join" date, it would have been from another screen name, the major idea being having made a pact with the devil or Satan.

Truly, I would have searched this all down for you, but we've had a death in the family, and ... well... you know how that goes.

Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hi Nick,

Based upon the "join" date, it would have been from another screen name, the major idea being having made a pact with the devil or Satan.

Truly, I would have searched this all down for you, but we've had a death in the family, and ... well... you know how that goes.

Rhema

Dear Rhema,
Sorry to hear about your loss, and hopefully Heaven's gain.
My prayers go out to you and yours.

Don't worry about the other. It will show up or not. God is good!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Sue D.]

???

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;​

(1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV)​

I'm pretty sure the Baptists preach that Jesus went and saved souls out of hell.
Oops got this in the wrong section.
After His crucifixion and before His bodily resurrection, He did go to hell in our place and preached to those in the Hades/ Sheol section to give them a chance to accept Him and then took those on the Paradise section back up with Him.

But those who still didn't are still there along with all others who don't accept Christ while alive here.

The cross of çalvary / the blood of Jesus Christ paid for our sins. But a person needs to acknowledge their need for salvation. Place their faith in the sufficiency of the blood of Jesus Christ




Rhema

I'm a Bible / God's Word person first and then a Baptist.

 

[Rhema]

I'm a Bible / God's Word person first and then a Baptist.

But the Bible defines what "God's Word" is, and it doesn't include itself in its own definition.

That's not really hard to understand.

Look Sue, (and to any moderators) I have tried my very best to focus our conversations on facts, history, truth, and doctrinal assertions. But you'll have none of it. Instead, I let you drag me into this personality conflict where you have insulted my race, my culture, and my church.

Duly noted,
Rhema

PS: (To all) There is a long standing debate in theology as to whether the Bible IS God's Word or CONTAINS God's Word. In that the Bible itself defines the Word of God (LOGOS) to be Jesus himself (not a book) and in that the Bible itself defines the Word of God (RHEMA) to be the Holy Spirit (not a book), I consider this particular "debate" to have been settled. 1 Cor 11:16

 

[Garee]

Shaolin said:
No one gets saved just because they believe, that is false doctrine.

Exactly we are saved when given the power to believe. And this not not of our own self . A dying creation has no ressurection power .

No ressurection power no salvation.


Philipians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

 

[Sue D.]

But the Bible defines what "God's Word" is, and it doesn't include itself in its own definition.

That's not really hard to understand.

Look Sue, (and to any moderators) I have tried my very best to focus our conversations on facts, history, truth, and doctrinal assertions. But you'll have none of it. Instead, I let you drag me into this personality conflict where you have insulted my race, my culture, and my church.

Duly noted,
Rhema

PS: (To all) There is a long standing debate in theology as to whether the Bible IS God's Word or CONTAINS God's Word. In that the Bible itself defines the Word of God (LOGOS) to be Jesus himself (not a book) and in that the Bible itself defines the Word of God (RHEMA) to be the Holy Spirit (not a book), I consider this particular "debate" to have been settled. 1 Cor 11:16

The context of 1 Corinthians 11:16 has to do with head coverings for women. The length of hair for men and for women.

"But if anyone seems to be contentious , we have no such custom ,nor do the churches of God". 1 Corinthians 11: 16.

 

[Sue D.]

And the Bible is God's Word.

 

[Rhema]

The context of 1 Corinthians 11:16 has to do with head coverings for women.

Poetic license, my dear. (Many things cause people to be contentious.)

And the specific conclusion for that particular topic is no, women should not wear head coverings.

Rhema
(The Baptists should be glad. The Mennonites... not so much.)

 

[Rhema]

And the Bible is God's Word.

Not according to the Bible.

Rhema


Or maybe I'm wrong, so show me. Show me in the Bible where the Bible says the Bible is God's Word. Otherwise, you just have an imaginations of men that is brought to the Bible.

 

[Neyra]

Hey, sorry for the late reply. So I was saved after regretting my sins and accepting Jesus.
But howso you don't know if am a Christian? Does not the Holy Spirit tell you that? I can't believe if the Holy Spirit doesn't letting you know if you're talking to a saved christian, or to one with a revoked salvation, a disqualified or backslidden. At present even I don't know that, but that's why I'm asking for help. The one thing I know that I was a Cristian, and I asked God for forgiveness. The one thing is I was never an exemplary one, ... The only problem it was I did things, and I always fallen away from God. Now with this pact I don't even know that I'm able to go back to God or suffer endlessly(in this life). Because things are happening to me right now are so bad that I don't even know if it was worth me to ever being existent and I begun lately(not so lately) envying the dead constantly(you all know the verse in the Bible where it profecies that after the rapture a big mass of people will envy the dead. Well I reached that stage)
What I'm planning to do now...
Be more honourfull, I plan to do everything I do with dignity, thruthfulness, honesty. I try to be kind and respectful to other people even if I can't be loving because so much happened to me that I became uncapable of love. I try to be loving to God, but I just can't because so much things had happened that soured the whole spirit. ( I just try to do the things above but I am uncapable. With lots of seriousness, attention. Regardless of that almost everything in my life goes bad, my luck goes elsewhere, it's nowhere to be found. I With all this anguish I want to be a better person, with almost zero success.
And I wonder it is that pact that lead to that, because it's not the evilness that stops me from being good. I mean not the sin, the lust what we are born with, it does not dwell in me so much(I don't let it). I am over that. It's something else. Or it's just that but without me taking notice. It's like not to much control if I want to be good. Including the regret.

What does this tell you? Is it a way back to repentance? Or forgiveness?

Is there a way back to God? Will He forgive me?

 

[Rhema]

Does not the Holy Spirit tell you that?

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