What Is HELL ?

[Butch5]

Butch, you are not keeping up and funny you think I am not.

You argue that scripture says 1. God is just and says 2. He will annihilate IE 1+2=3. Well, this is where you are stuck.

''2'' is a vastly UNKNOWN future event that 95% of Christians DISAGREE with you on. So to do 99.99% of the people on this planet with a working brain that can grasp that ''just'' does not equal ''annihilate''.

The KNOWN facts in the equation are 1. God is just Job 34:12, 2. God has created a place called the lake of fire, 3. God is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17, 4. God is light with no darkness 1 John 1:5.

1+2+3+4+5 = eternal separation in a as nice a place as possible, which is not so nice... as it doesn't matter how nice a place is if there are evil people there.

2 is not an unknown fact. It's a denied fact. You're just denying it. Here is was is arguably the most quoted verse in all of Scripture.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The New King James Version. 1982. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

He sent His Son so those who belwive would not perish. Note the word perish. It doesn't say suffer punishment forever.

Not X + 1 = annihilation.

You making the same mistake as those who teach eternal torture. Both pushing a vastly unknown future event that incriminates God as fact because you read '''death'' and they read '''fire'' .

You all fail terribly on this topic. Plese read this verse slowly.

Psalm 145:17 God .........................is.....................righteous...................in...................ALLLLLL.....................His ways.

See above

I have repeatedly told you that you ask this because you believe 'death is death' and 'life is living'. 95% of all Christians disagree with you on this.

WOW!!!! Imagine that. Taking the Bible at its word. Who would ever have thought such a thing .

As I've said, you have to redefine the meaning of words. That right there should show you you're off base.

Of course it does, because if God is not just, who wants eternal life with Him?

And yet you didn't show where the wicked get eternal life

The topic changed a bit. You did not answer my Yes or No questions. You are just evasive and placing your logical brain in shutdown mode when you discuss. Christians must never do that.

Again, you avoided addressing all three of the false premises in you're argument. All you have to do is prove them and the discussion can move forward. As I said, there's no point in addressing an argument based on false premises. As I said. You might as well ask me if Sasquatch has long or short hair.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Can you explain these to me then?

1. Read Matt 5:28 with Matt 5:32. Adultery = sin, but only actual adultery = divorce.

2. Read 1 Cor 5:1 and note that Paul addresses the congregation to discuss and isolate a 'brother so called' guilty of sex with fathers wife. Now please try to understand that Paul did not pause a sermon to address the sin of stealing candy from the candy store. 1 Cor 5:1 ''It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.''

3. Leviticus mentions God's laws, degrees of punishment according to sins and we know from Numb 23:19 that He does not change.

4. in 1 Cor 6:1-9 Paul rebukes Christians who cannot judge matters better then the unsaved.

5. Paul says in Rom 7:15 that he still sins, he was not referring to his prior sin of murdering Christians was he?

Sorry Bill, but Catholics have venial and mortal sins correct.

All of your references are examples of sin and in no case is support for venial sin made.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Source: 5 Bible verses about The Second Death

 

[KingJ]

All of your references are examples of sin and in no case is support for venial sin made.

Huh? Please quote any one of them and explain. This post by you is not a rebuttal.

 

[Bill Taylor]

KJ said, any one of them: 1 Cor 5:1 ''It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.''

There is not any distinction at all nor is there mention of more than one kind of sin. All sin is as I showed you with just one of the multiple verses instructing sin, all sin, is, unrepented, unto the second death... the Lake of Fire.

 

[KingJ]

KJ said, any one of them: 1 Cor 5:1 ''It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.''

There is not any distinction at all nor is there mention of more than one kind of sin. All sin is as I showed you with just one of the multiple verses instructing sin, all sin, is, unrepented, unto the second death... the Lake of Fire.

Bill I feel like you are trolling and missing the point. I repeat, sin is sin AND sin has degrees. You have attempted to debunk degrees by explaining sin is sin. Try focus.

When Paul came to church the one morning, he knew there were many in attendance that backbite, think immoral thoughts, tell lies, but....when he heard there was a person in attendance that slept with his father's wife, he felt compelled to address it from the pulpit.

"A sin not even the pagans commit". If you cannot grasp that that line speaks to degrees of sin, I have no more words for you. Yours and others replies are now literal insanity.

 

[B-A-C]

A. Is it ''right'' to remove from the wicked their memories of their loved ones? Yes or No?
B. Is it ''right'' to remove from those ''barely'' saved 1 Pet 4:18, the memories of their loved ones who did not make it? Yes or No?

You often ask people "Is it right" for a specific thing to happen. It doesn't matter if we think something is right or not. It does matter if the Bible says it's going to happen.
Instead of asking people if they think something is right... ask a homosexual if sodomy is right, ask a pro-choicer if abortion is right, ask a trans-sexual if gender change is right.
Ask them what the Bible says. We can say something is "unthinkable" that God would do it, and yet, the Bible says He did, and He will.

Prov 14:12; There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.
Jer 17:9; "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Jer 17:10; "I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

So we can ask ourselves is something "right", or we can ask ourselves, does the Bible support it.

Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
John 15:6; "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matt 18:8; "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[KingJ]

You often ask people "Is it right" for a specific thing to happen. It doesn't matter if we think something is right or not.

Of course it does. Do you think we don't choose to serve God? Do think God made a mistake giving us a brain and high intelligence? Do you think God made a mistake when He gave us the knowledge of good and evil?


Josh 24:15 choose this day whom you will serve.
Heb 2:7 You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.
Gen 3:22 The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

It does matter if the Bible says it's going to happen.

That what is going to happen? Hell? Yes, we know this. We also know that you and many others interpret the word fire to be suffering on par with being placed in a brazen bull when Jesus gives a clear depiction of suffering in fire in Luke 16:19-31. You forget to read and grasp this fact every time we discuss.

Instead of asking people if they think something is right... ask a homosexual if sodomy is right, ask a pro-choicer if abortion is right, ask a trans-sexual if gender change is right.

Here you are completely throwing the baby out with the bath water. Because homosexuals think they are right, therefore absolutely every adult on this planet has no clue what is good and evil.

No BAC. Sexual sin and some laws specific to Jews are the only real matters that require some explaining. Every person on the planet with a working brain, nerve endings and the ability to cry can discern good and evil. Working brain knows that cutting someone's arm off with a sword for no reason is 9/10 evil. This is why Jesus was so wise when He made the statement 'do unto others as you want done unto you'. Why Jesus could some all laws into two with one being ''love your neighbor as yourself''.

Do you believe some adults out there (outside of mentally handicapped) are unable to grasp that ''loving your neighbor as yourself'' is good and not, is bad?

Sexual sin requires an explanation as it can be done between consenting adults. A lot like specific laws for the Jews, sexual sin is a sin directly against God. But a chat for another thread.

Ask them what the Bible says. We can say something is "unthinkable" that God would do it, and yet, the Bible says He did, and He will.

''We'' are not saying. Job 34:12 says its unthinkable. Now, please include it in your cherry picked selection of verses on hell.

Prov 14:12; There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.
Jer 17:9; "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Jer 17:10; "I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

Prov 16:18-19 Pride leads to destruction, and arrogance to downfall. It is better to be humble and stay poor than to be one of the arrogant and get a share of their loot.

Your verses have truth to them and are applicable, but relate more to the deceitfulness pride causes. With a prideful heart all sins become possible. For the purposes this topic though, I like to focus on the specific sin that pride can lead to. The sins we commit show how lost and sold out to sin we are.

So we can ask ourselves is something "right", or we can ask ourselves, does the Bible support it.

The bible tells us the following: Paul says a spiritual man judges all things 1 Cor 2:15 and that one day we will judge angels 1 Cor 6:3.

---------------------------

Christianity 101 is about us CHOOSING Jesus. We do so because we APPROVE of what He said and taught. We do not serve God just because He is ''God''. Imagine 'he' was the devil? Would you serve him?

If you read Gen 18 you will see that Abraham questioned God on the destruction of Sodom and in Exo 32 Moses questioned Him on the golden calf. We need to grasp that they were bewildered and needed God to prove to them that what He was going to do was correct, righteous and just.

This idealogy that you and @BUTCH push of God being ''''just'''' when He does something evil, is simply not correct. I really don't like it when you or anyone else insinuates this.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Bill I feel like you are trolling and missing the point. I repeat, sin is sin AND sin has degrees. You have attempted to debunk degrees by explaining sin is sin. Try focus.

When Paul came to church the one morning, he knew there were many in attendance that backbite, think immoral thoughts, tell lies, but....when he heard there was a person in attendance that slept with his father's wife, he felt compelled to address it from the pulpit.

"A sin not even the pagans commit". If you cannot grasp that that line speaks to degrees of sin, I have no more words for you. Yours and others replies are now literal insanity.

Sorry but, any sin that is not repented of is punished by the second death, the never ending seperation from Yehovah. You choose to think in classes of sin but I judge them by their end result.

 

[KingJ]

Sorry but, any sin that is not repented of is punished by the second death, the never ending seperation from Yehovah. You choose to think in classes of sin but I judge them by their end result.

You are grouping two separate topics and as a result can make very silly and irrational statements.

Sin is sin, correct. Sin has degrees, correct. I have explained this difference. Instead of quoting me, you and others keep making your silly opinionated statements.

When a person gets on there knees and judges themselves before God in fear and trembling as Phil 2:12 says we should, we examine ourselves for those sins we are battling with. We are in a marriage with God. Degrees of sin speak to our heart condition.

Imagine coming to your spouse and saying "honey, I bought you a chocolate. I want to apologize for looking and thinking of that person at the mall. They mesmerized me." Verse "honey, I bought you a chocolate. I want to apologize for having sex all night with that person at the mall, they mesmerized me".

It is when we judge and examine ourselves that we need to consider degrees of sins. As Jesus says " we are known by our fruits".

 

[B-A-C]

Imagine coming to your spouse and saying "honey, I bought you a chocolate. I want to apologize for looking and thinking of that person at the mall. They mesmerized me." Verse "honey, I bought you a chocolate. I want to apologize for having sex all night with that person at the mall, they mesmerized me".

That might be alright with you wife. But to God, they are the same.

Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

But in reality, who has only sinned once? Or twice? Or even a hundred times.

Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

People need to quit making excuses for their sins, and telling themselves God is OK with it.

 

[KingJ]

That might be alright with you wife. But to God, they are the same.

Incorrect.

Lev 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
Nu 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.

Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Yes, agreed sin = sin. This is however a '''separate'' matter. As I have tried to explain in every post here.....

This verse explains the need for a sacrifice for all sin. All have sinned.

But in reality, who has only sinned once? Or twice? Or even a hundred times.

Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

BAC you are tiresome. You cherry pick scripture and arrive at a half truth. A truth, yes, but a half truth.

Imagine thinking God destroyed Sodom for venial sins. Gen 18:20 The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.

I have presented quite a few passages of scripture to you that you, nor others have tried to rebut. See post #284.

People need to quit making excuses for their sins, and telling themselves God is OK with it.

We need to repent of all sin, agreed. But, people need to stop thinking they are anything remotely related to a Christian if they are in mortal sin.

Paul mentions that he sins in Rom 7:15. Imagine teaching from the pulpit that Paul continued in the sin of murdering Christians. Oh, all sin is sin, so what if the preacher was a person battling with the sin of......murder. Imagine that. Rock solid theology you have there BAC.

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
1 Tim 1:15 The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Acts 22:4 I worked hard and killed men and women who believed as I believe today.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
1 Tim 1:15 The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Acts 22:4 I worked hard and killed men and women who believed as I believe today.

1Tim 1 and Acts 22.
Paul did these things before he was a Christian, he repented and he is forgiven. The Bible doesn't say he killed anyone after his conversion.

So what about Romans 7?

Rom 7:19; For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
Rom 7:20; But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Rom 7:24; Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

This continues over into Chapter 8.

Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

You don't have to be perfect. Stumbling is OK. But when we get in the habit of saying... "oh it's just a "small" sin, God is OK with it", then we are lying to ourselves, and to God.

Imagine thinking God destroyed Sodom for

Rather than "imagining" God will do this, or do that, we should just stick with scripture.

I would also add, that Paul wasn't necessarily convinced he was saved early in his ministry.

Php 3:11; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12; Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13; Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14; I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

However this changed in later years.

2Tim 4:7; I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;

 

[B-A-C]

Imagine thinking God destroyed Sodom for venial sins.

God allowed 36 men to be killed because another man stole some things.

Josh 7:5; The men of Ai struck down about thirty-six of their men, and pursued them from the gate as far as Shebarim and struck them down on the descent, so the hearts of the people melted and became as water.
Josh 7:20; So Achan answered Joshua and said, "Truly, I have sinned against the LORD, the God of Israel, and this is what I did:
Josh 7:21; when I saw among the spoil a beautiful mantle from Shinar and two hundred shekels of silver and a bar of gold fifty shekels in weight, then I coveted them and took them; and behold, they are concealed in the earth inside my tent with the silver underneath it."

Two people died in Acts 5, for simply telling a lie.

Acts 5:3' But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
Acts 5:5; And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.

Adam and Eve died because they ate a fruit.

Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Some people will die, simply because they didn't warn people about the danger of sin.

Ezek 3:18; "When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

14,700 people died simply for grumbling.

Num 16:41; But on the next day all the congregation of the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron, saying, "You are the ones who have caused the death of the LORD'S people."
Num 16:44; and the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Num 16:45; "Get away from among this congregation, that I may consume them instantly." Then they fell on their faces.
Num 16:49; But those who died by the plague were 14,700, besides those who died on account of Korah.

Moses and most of the Jews were not allowed to enter the promised land, simply because Moses hit a rock twice.

Numb 20:11; Then Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came forth abundantly, and the congregation and their beasts drank.
Numb 20:12; But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them."
Numb 20:24; "Aaron will be gathered to his people; for he shall not enter the land which I have given to the sons of Israel, because you rebelled against My command at the waters of Meribah.

I feel certain, I could easily come up with ten more examples.

 

[B-A-C]

Lev 10:1, Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them.
Lev 10:2, And fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.

The sons of Aaron died, simply because they started the wrong kind of fire.

2Sam 6:6; But when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out toward the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen nearly upset it.
2Sam 6:7; And the anger of the LORD burned against Uzzah, and God struck him down there for his irreverence; and he died there by the ark of God.

Uzzah died for simply touching the Ark of the Covenant.

Gen 19:26; But his wife, from behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

Lots wife became a pillar of salt, simply for looking back.

 

[Bill Taylor]

You are grouping two separate topics and as a result can make very silly and irrational statements.

Sin is sin, correct. Sin has degrees, correct. I have explained this difference. Instead of quoting me, you and others keep making your silly opinionated statements.

When a person gets on there knees and judges themselves before God in fear and trembling as Phil 2:12 says we should, we examine ourselves for those sins we are battling with. We are in a marriage with God. Degrees of sin speak to our heart condition.

Imagine coming to your spouse and saying "honey, I bought you a chocolate. I want to apologize for looking and thinking of that person at the mall. They mesmerized me." Verse "honey, I bought you a chocolate. I want to apologize for having sex all night with that person at the mall, they mesmerized me".

It is when we judge and examine ourselves that we need to consider degrees of sins. As Jesus says " we are known by our fruits".

If Yehovah or Yashuah judge degrees of sin, as we do, an unrepentant murderer would, surely, by our standards, spend eternity dying, moment by moment, in the Lake of Fire. And if I stole a chocolate and did not repent I might get 30 hours of community service... by our standard. The truth is that both sinners, refusing to repent, spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. You can assert different stages of sin until the cows come home but, Yehovah does not care. He is the standard we are to aspire to become and any unrepented infraction sends us into suffering, period.

 

[KingJ]

1Tim 1 and Acts 22.
Paul did these things before he was a Christian, he repented and he is forgiven. The Bible doesn't say he killed anyone after his conversion.

Correct, Paul did not continue in the mortal sin of murder. Glad we agree.

You don't have to be perfect. Stumbling is OK. But when we get in the habit of saying... "oh it's just a "small" sin, God is OK with it", then we are lying to ourselves, and to God.

What nonsense. Degrees of sin point to intent. You are using the relevance of the need to repent of all sin as a justification for all sin being equal. That is extreme idiocy. I will wait for you to realise that.

Rather than "imagining" God will do this, or do that, we should just stick with scripture.

Scripture says God is just and that it is unthinkable that He would pervert justice Job 34:12. What is your problem? Do you not know what just is? Do you not know that scripture says God is just? Do you think lethal injection for all sinners is just? Yes or No? Discussion is becoming extremely painful. I cannot believe the blind tunnel vision.

Nice how you feel ''you'' stick to scripture and still do not accept that I have rebuked you for cherry picking ''your'' scripture.

I would also add, that Paul wasn't necessarily convinced he was saved early in his ministry.


Php 3:11; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12; Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13; Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14; I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

However this changed in later years.

2Tim 4:7; I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;

BAC you are evading the points I raised and jumping onto other matters. Please try deal with one thing at a time.

This is the same tactic atheists use when I discuss with them. Quote the passage I quoted and post a rebuttal. You seem to think posting tons of ''slightly'' related passages is a rebuttal.

 

[KingJ]

God allowed 36 men to be killed because another man stole some things.

Josh 7:5; The men of Ai struck down about thirty-six of their men, and pursued them from the gate as far as Shebarim and struck them down on the descent, so the hearts of the people melted and became as water.
Josh 7:20; So Achan answered Joshua and said, "Truly, I have sinned against the LORD, the God of Israel, and this is what I did:
Josh 7:21; when I saw among the spoil a beautiful mantle from Shinar and two hundred shekels of silver and a bar of gold fifty shekels in weight, then I coveted them and took them; and behold, they are concealed in the earth inside my tent with the silver underneath it."

Two people died in Acts 5, for simply telling a lie.

Acts 5:3' But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
Acts 5:5; And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.

Adam and Eve died because they ate a fruit.

Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Some people will die, simply because they didn't warn people about the danger of sin.

Ezek 3:18; "When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

14,700 people died simply for grumbling.

Num 16:41; But on the next day all the congregation of the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron, saying, "You are the ones who have caused the death of the LORD'S people."
Num 16:44; and the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Num 16:45; "Get away from among this congregation, that I may consume them instantly." Then they fell on their faces.
Num 16:49; But those who died by the plague were 14,700, besides those who died on account of Korah.

Moses and most of the Jews were not allowed to enter the promised land, simply because Moses hit a rock twice.

Numb 20:11; Then Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came forth abundantly, and the congregation and their beasts drank.
Numb 20:12; But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them."
Numb 20:24; "Aaron will be gathered to his people; for he shall not enter the land which I have given to the sons of Israel, because you rebelled against My command at the waters of Meribah.

I feel certain, I could easily come up with ten more examples.

Once more, you avoid dealing with the passage presented and move the goal posts, evade and change the topic.

Each passage you have quoted here requires a full study and review as it is not like God to be a complete and utter fool.

You have this extremely bad habit of quoting contentious scriptures and leaving the reader to assume the worse of God. That is not something a mature Christian should be doing. If I did not know you, I would think you are a god basher, trying to defame God.

 

[KingJ]

If Yehovah or Yashuah judge degrees of sin, as we do, an unrepentant murderer would, surely, by our standards, spend eternity dying, moment by moment, in the Lake of Fire. And if I stole a chocolate and did not repent I might get 30 hours of community service... by our standard.

Who on this planet, unsaved or saved would send a murderer to an eternal punishment like that? But yes, we agree, a murderer will deserve a harsher punishment over a person who stole chocolate. Glad to see you finally acknowledge this and agree with what even the unsaved can grasp is just.

Now you just need to grasp that on justice and mercy, Unsaved < Christian < God.

Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.

The truth is that both sinners, refusing to repent, spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

Agreed. Hell is a home for the unrepentant.

You can assert different stages of sin until the cows come home but, Yehovah does not care.

He does. Do you have any scripture?

When I read the bible I read this:

Lev 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
Nu 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.

He is the standard we are to aspire to become and any unrepented infraction sends us into suffering, period.

That is not correct. That is your opinion.

Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good, except God alone''.

 

[B-A-C]

Scripture says God is just and that it is unthinkable that He would pervert justice Job 34:12

There are "Christians" that believe God will not punish anyone for anything. ( saved or not )
There are "Christians" that believe as long as you believe in Jesus, anything goes, God is OK with all my sins just because I believe in Jesus.
There are "Christians" who believe God is OK with "some" of my sins. - I defy them to show me a single scripture that says so.

We have ELCA, United Methodist, Roman Catholic and Episcopal right here in the town I live in today that have gay clergy, perform gay marriages.
Because "God is OK with these things".

You can say well "They are wrong", and that's fine. But the point is, what we as humans think is right or just, isn't what God thinks is right or just.

You mention perverting justice. Here in the US we have a symbol called "Lady Justice" she is blindfolded and is holding a pair of scales.

The idea is that good and evil balance out. But where do you draw the line on this? If you're truly concerned about being fair and just.
Good, righteous, ( saved ) Christian will go to paradise, live on streets of gold, eat fruit, worship God, and live forever.

What is the other side of that balance scale?

Bad, wicked, evil ( unsaved ) people will go to hades. the lake of fire, and die forever.

In order for justice to be truly just, however good the good side of something is.
The bad side has to be equally bad.

All Saved Christians live in paradise forever.
All unsaved sinners will live in hell forever.

Like it or not, that's the definition of true justice.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Who on this planet, unsaved or saved would send a murderer to an eternal punishment like that? But yes, we agree, a murderer will deserve a harsher punishment over a person who stole chocolate. Glad to see you finally acknowledge this and agree with what even the unsaved can grasp is just.

Now you just need to grasp that on justice and mercy, Unsaved < Christian < God.

You accuse B-A-C of cherry-picking as you commit that very sin against Yehovah. B-A-C and I understand that no scripture or scripture collection can be correctly understood without the light of all scripture shining on it/them. We know the scriptures you Catholics dwell on and learning all of the Word of God and being indwelt with the Ruah we have Yehovah's reckoning together of these scriptures.

Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.

The trouble is you want the Pope to define justice and like us he is human.

Agreed. Hell is a home for the unrepentant.

Not Hell, it's the Lake of Fire.

He does. Do you have any scripture?

The Bible without the man imposed numbering system/

When I read the bible I read this:

Lev 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
Nu 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should

Now, view that in the light of all other scripture and you will see if you are indwelt.

change his mind.



That is not correct. That is your opinion.

Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good, except God alone''.