What is the best analogy to explain the Trinity?

[Charlie24]

Dear Brother,
Leave well enough alone.
They are just getting their feet wet here on Talk Jesus.
We need to be gracious in allowing them time to get acclimated.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Got It!

 

[Butch5]

@B-A-C

Here is an example of translator bias.

The King James Version reads like this.
KJV 1900And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
They have capitalized the word spirit. So, when one read this they see that the Holy Spirit of God entered the men. Is that what John meant? It appears that more modern translators don't think so.
ESVSo I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
NETSo I prophesied as I was commanded, and the breath came into them; they lived and stood on their feet, an extremely great army.
NETSo I prophesied as I was commanded, and the breath came into them; they lived and stood on their feet, an extremely great army.
HCSBSo I prophesied as He commanded me; the breath entered them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, a vast army.

Notice these more modern translations, not only don't capitalize it, they don't even use the word spirit. They use the word breath. It would appear from this that the KJV translators thought the Holy Spirit was entering these men and modern translators don't even see the Holy Spirit in this passage. Two different sets of translators see the passage quite differently. The modern ones have much more scholarship available.

 

[Charlie24]

@B-A-C

Here is an example of translator bias.

The King James Version reads like this.
KJV 1900And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
They have capitalized the word spirit. So, when one read this they see that the Holy Spirit of God entered the men. Is that what John meant? It appears that more modern translators don't think so.
ESVSo I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
NETSo I prophesied as I was commanded, and the breath came into them; they lived and stood on their feet, an extremely great army.
NETSo I prophesied as I was commanded, and the breath came into them; they lived and stood on their feet, an extremely great army.
HCSBSo I prophesied as He commanded me; the breath entered them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, a vast army.

Notice these more modern translations, not only don't capitalize it, they don't even use the word spirit. They use the word breath. It would appear from this that the KJV translators thought the Holy Spirit was entering these men and modern translators don't even see the Holy Spirit in this passage. Two different sets of translators see the passage quite differently. The modern ones have much more scholarship available.

Butch, this is some serious stuff you're dealing with here, Let me show you why.

4151 pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.

These two witnesses were dead, they have been dead for 3 1/2 days. There is only one power known to man that could bring life back to these men.

"Pneuma" should be used in context as a noun, "Spirit" as that is who gave life back to these men.

These modern scholars you admire are denying God the Holy Spirit the glory for this life given back to these men.

Do you know what the Scripture says about changing Scripture to mean something other than what God has said?

Rev. 22:18-19
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

 

[Butch5]

@B-A-C

Here is an example of translator bias.

The King James Version reads like this.
KJV 1900And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
They have capitalized the word spirit. So, when one read this they see that the Holy Spirit of God entered the men. Is that what John meant? It appears that more modern translators don't think so.
ESVSo I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
NETSo I prophesied as I was commanded, and the breath came into them; they lived and stood on their feet, an extremely great army.
NETSo I prophesied as I was commanded, and the breath came into them; they lived and stood on their feet, an extremely great army.
HCSBSo I prophesied as He commanded me; the breath entered them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, a vast army.

Notice these more modern translations, not only don't capitalize it, they don't even use the word spirit. They use the word breath. It would appear from this that the KJV translators thought the Holy Spirit was entering these men and modern translators don't even see the Holy Spirit in this passage. Two different sets of translators see the passage quite differently. The modern ones have much more scholarship available.

@B-A-C

Hey, sorry. In that last post I posted the wrong passage. Here is the comparison between the translators. This is Rev. 11:11. Pay no attention to the green text. It's just the color of the links in my software.

KJV 1900And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

ESVBut after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
HCSBBut after 3½ days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. So great fear fell on those who saw them.
NETBut after three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and tremendous fear seized those who were watching them.
NASBAnd after the three and a half days the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were beholding them.
NIVBut after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.

The modern translations translate it breath of life, whereas the King James uses spirit and then capitalizes spirit to make it the Holy Spirit. The wording from the KJV implies that the Holy Spirit entered these men. The modern translations see the breath of life entering them. The breath of life enters them and they come alive. That's just what we see in Genesis 2:7 when God breaths the breath of life into the man and the man becomes a living soul. The point is that the translation is being driven by the beliefs of the translators.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

The point is that the translation is being driven by the beliefs of the translators.

is it (in this case) Brother?
We must be careful of tossing everything into the same basket. I fully agree that some translations/versions have a definite twist or agenda or bias. That does not have to be the case here.

What is the difference between The Breath of God and the Spirit, when push comes to shove (sorry Lord). ?
If we understand the Breath (of Life) then we can accommodate Spirit into our understanding quite easily [without effort] as it is the Lord, by His Spirit, Who guides and teaches and brings to remembrance those remembrances that need remembering.

We have to be cautious and aware of not 'creating' doctrine over 'split hairs' .
I appreciate from where you are writing and only wish to encourage you, albeit with this small word of caution.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

The entrance of Thy words giveth light.
Psalm 119:130

This ... is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
I John 1:5

God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
II Corinthians 4:6

The Word was God. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:1, 4

If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
I John 1:7

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against Thee.
Psalm 119:11

Ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:3

Ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light.
Ephesians 5:8

Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light.
I Peter 2:9

Praise the LORD

 

[Butch5]

Greetings,



is it (in this case) Brother?
We must be careful of tossing everything into the same basket. I fully agree that some translations/versions have a definite twist or agenda or bias. That does not have to be the case here.

What is the difference between The Breath of God and the Spirit, when push comes to shove (sorry Lord). ?
If we understand the Breath (of Life) then we can accommodate Spirit into our understanding quite easily [without effort] as it is the Lord, by His Spirit, Who guides and teaches and brings to remembrance those remembrances that need remembering.

We have to be cautious and aware of not 'creating' doctrine over 'split hairs' .
I appreciate from where you are writing and only wish to encourage you, albeit with this small word of caution.


Bless you ....><>

HI Br. Bear,

My point in that post was to show that translators often have different opinions. The initial charge was that I said the Bible is wrong. I didn't say that, I said the translators were wrong. I used this post to show that translators translate based on what they believe.

The use of the words breath and spirit is an issue, in my opinion, but I wasn't addressing that in this post.

 

[Charlie24]

Greetings,



is it (in this case) Brother?
We must be careful of tossing everything into the same basket. I fully agree that some translations/versions have a definite twist or agenda or bias. That does not have to be the case here.

What is the difference between The Breath of God and the Spirit, when push comes to shove (sorry Lord). ?
If we understand the Breath (of Life) then we can accommodate Spirit into our understanding quite easily [without effort] as it is the Lord, by His Spirit, Who guides and teaches and brings to remembrance those remembrances that need remembering.

We have to be cautious and aware of not 'creating' doctrine over 'split hairs' .
I appreciate from where you are writing and only wish to encourage you, albeit with this small word of caution.


Bless you ....><>

Folks will see it differently, to me, when the KJV translators capitalized "Spirit" they were acknowledging the third member of the Triune God.

I don't see that in the other translations that were posted.

 

[Butch5]

Folks will see it differently, to me, when the KJV translators capitalized "Spirit" they were acknowledging the third member of the Triune God.

I don't see that in the other translations that were posted.

That's the point I was making.

 

[Charlie24]

That's the point I was making.

Yes, I know. It's the point I'm making also but in the opposite way.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, I know. It's the point I'm making also but in the opposite way.

Jeremiah 6:16

"Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein."

 

[MedicBravo]

My friend, there is no such thing as a trinity. It is a doctrine of devils; denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. There are no "three persons in God". There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

No one has stated it's scripture.
Humans label and categorize everything.
You left out the Holy Spirit. Huh. Interesting.
Explain with evidence how it's a "doctrine of devils".