What to expect in hell

[Jonathan_Gale]

And what does that passage have to do with my comment.

Everything. That loss is the reason for the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Sue D.]

That's not what scripture says.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

That's not what scripture says.

Alright, elaborate. Is 1 Cor. 3:15 not scripture?

 

[Sue D.]

Of course it's scripture but has nothing to do with the subject being talked about.

Take a look at Matthew 8 : 10 -12. For context. But vs 12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Of course it's scripture but has nothing to do with the subject being talked about.

Take a look at Matthew 8 : 10 -12. For context. But vs 12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In that context Yeshua was chastening Israel for their lack of faith in stark contrast to the centurion's faith which even he marveled at. He was warning that Israel, as the "sons of the kingdom" are not entitled to the kingdom as they think they are, they are in danger of losing their inheritance, which will be taken from them and given to faithful gentiles.

 

[Sue D.]

You sure do like to miss the point. Or ignoring it.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You sure do like to miss the point. Or ignoring it.

No I don't. You asked for context, I gave you the context. My point is that "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is not necessarily synonymous with the Lake of Fire, it's a cultural expression which I learned from pastor Brandon, and it's related to 1 Cor. 3:15.

 

[Sue D.]

No it's not just a cultural expression. It's going to be very real and last forever .

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

No it's not just a cultural expression. It's going to be very real and last forever .

Yes it is. Actually, "Gehenna" in the title of this thread is also a cultural expression, although it's usually translated as "hell", but actually it was a real place in south of Jerusalem where Israelites used to sacrifice infants to Moloch, and currectly at the time burning trash and dead bodies. In the listeners' mind, that was the worst place on earth they could end up in. That's not the Lake of Fire. "Hell" is an umbrella term that causes a lot of confusion, common impression of "hell" is not from the bible, but from Dante's inferno.

 

[Sue D.]

Take a look at Luke 12: 8. And Psalms 55: 15 and Matthew 5: 22.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Take a look at Luke 12: 8. And Psalms 55: 15 and Matthew 5: 22.

This is a real distraction. Why don't you point to Matt. 22:13 and 25:30, where the exact same expression "utter darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth" also appear? I think we can all agree that all scriptures have incredible depth, but any depth we dig in must start from the right surface spot, otherwise the deeper you dig, the further you're misled, and you ain't gonna find anything but dirt. That "right surface spot" is the literal interpretation based on historic and cultural background, any theory or analysis is developed from that. That's the spirit of TRUTH. In this case, "utter darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth" is just one example.

 

[Sue D.]

Then why are you fighting this subject so much.
You said that thr word hell isn't in the Bible. And I gave you three references where it was.

God's Word is God's Word. Don't try to down play the fact of a future lake of fire snd and brimstone and total darkness and gnashing of teeth. No one Has to end up there. And God has The way to stay out and be able to be in heaven for eternity.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Then why are you fighting this subject so much.
You said that thr word hell isn't in the Bible. And I gave you three references where it was.

God's Word is God's Word. Don't try to down play the fact of a future lake of fire snd and brimstone and total darkness and gnashing of teeth. No one Has to end up there. And God has The way to stay out and be able to be in heaven for eternity.

It's not in the bible because in the original Hebrew nor Greek, it's either the grave, Hades, "Gehenna" or the Lake of Fire, and "utter darkness" is referring to none of these. There are clear distinctions and it matters. The term "hell" conflates one with another. Yeshua experienced human death, but he surely wasn't cast into the Lake of Fire for two days, he went down to the grave for two days. Your understanding of hell doesn't come from the bible, it comes from the Dante's inferno.

 

[Sue D.]

I've never watched Dantes Inferno. My knowledge comes from God's Word

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I've never watched Dantes Inferno. My knowledge comes from God's Word

Nope, as long as you equate "hell" with the Lake of Fire, your knowledge comes from Dante's Inferno. God's Word told me that God himself went down to the GRAVE for two days, which is neither heaven nor hell, then resurrected.

 

[Sue D.]

@Jonathan_Gale. --I know what I've read and what I haven't. And I've never read Dantes Inferno.

Lots of people equate eternity with either heaven or hell. Technically heaven is the New Jerusalem being brought down by God Himself because the earth we live on now will be destroyed.
And that which is referred to as hell will be the lake of fire and brimstone. And the only people who Have to up there are Satan, the beast and the false prophet.
Everyone else Can be in heaven by accepting God's one way to be there. By accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior/ Lord.

It was Jesus Christ who was born into the Jewish culture to die on the cross for our sins. And He was here as God incarnate. And God the Father is Spirit
And remember at the cross there were also the two theives along wit b Jesus Christ being crucified. The one thieth recognized His innocence. Jesus Christ told him that that very day , he would be with him in Paradise and that is the place of rest / peace in Abraham's bosom. And then on the third day when Jesus Christ resurrected He brought back with Him all these who who'd been in Paradise. Scripture says that they were seen walking in the streets , but we're not told what happened to them after that. And we Also know that after 40 more day, Jesus ascended back up to heaven to be at the right hand of God the Father.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Technically, New Jerusalem is the NEW HEAVEN and the NEW EARTH, and before that is a kingdom on EARTH that will last for a thousand years. When Yeshua taught, "until heaven and earth pass away," He meant that literally. The old heaven and old earth will pass away when the garden of eden is restored. But make no mistake, before that, nobody goes to heaven, that's another dimension, it's not for human beings. Jacob can only see the ladder that angels go up and down in his dream, but he didn't get to climb it, and neither will anybody. The closest biblical teaching to your heaven and hell is Abraham's bosom and the burning coals in Hades. God has a timeline, He has specific times for everything. So yes, there WILL be a New Jerusalem with golden streets and pearly gates; but NO, the dead don't go there, not yet.

 

[B-A-C]

Technically, New Jerusalem is the NEW HEAVEN and the NEW EARTH,

Rev 21:1; Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

The New Jerusalem isn't heaven, it comes down "out of" heaven.

nobody goes to heaven,

Well perhaps not yet, and there might be a few exceptions.

2Kin 2:1; And it came about when the LORD was about to take up Elijah by a whirlwind to heaven, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
2Kin 2:11; As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.

Gen 5:24; Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Heb 11:5; By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

 

[Beetow]

• Ps 115:17-18 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go down into
silence.

"any who go down into silence" tells about people who have lost all meaningful
contact with God, i.e. He no longer lends them His ear; they're permanently cut off
from His benevolence, viz: The Lord has no interest in them whatsoever and as far
as He's concerned they're dead to Him like old documents disposed in the shredder
because they no longer matter.

* It's conceivable that the outer darkness spoken of in the 8th and 22nd chapters of
Matthew is a sort of reiteration of Ps 115:17. In other words: although folks
alienated from God are in a darkness of sorts already; He hasn't totally abandoned
them yet.

• Matt 5:44-45 . . I say, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. In
that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For He gives
his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the just and on the
unjust, too.

Illustrations for Dante's Inferno by the artist Gustave Doré may not be entirely
true, but they sure do a good job of impressing the total and complete absence of
God's benevolence in the netherworld.
_

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The New Jerusalem isn't heaven, it comes down "out of" heaven.

Rev 21:1 says it is the NEW heaven and new earth, which you quoted. How can it come out of “heaven” that has already passed away?