What to expect in hell

[complete]

Hi @Sue D,

If you take a look in a good dictionary, at the root meaning of the word, 'Hell', you will find, when all the subsequent influences have been stripped away, such as that of Greek philosophy, and mankind's use and abuse of the word, what you are left with is the knowledge that it's meaning is simply 'to hide away': Which is what you do with a dead body, you hide it away out of sight, in the grave, which is the place of the dead.

Our Lord shows clearly, in the story He told of 'The Rich Man and Lazarus', how the state of the dead has taken on a form in the imagination of men's minds which has no bearing at all on what the Scriptures actually have to say concerning it: but instead of understanding that His words were an expose' of Pharisaic doctrine, man has used this story as confirmation of the very lies that He sought to expose. Thus making His use of the word, 'BEWARE' in regard to their teaching, very necessary, but sadly overlooked, to the detriment of the truth.

After seeing the root meaning of the word, 'hell', and stripping it of it's associations, I made a comprehensive study of the Greek and Hebrew words that were translated by the word hell in Scripture, and looked at every usage of each one, and so am absolutely sure of the ground upon which I stand in relation to this subject. Only by doing so, can anyone be sure that their understanding is free of man's influence, and is the pure word of God.

Thank you, Sue,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Sue D.]

So you don't believe in a future literal hell / lake of fire and brimstone , the nashing of teeth , total darkness that will last forever? That's what it sounds like you're saying.

 

[complete]

'Beware lest any man spoil you
through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world,
and not after Christ.'
(Col 2:8)

 

[complete]

So you don't believe in a future literal hell / lake of fire and brimstone , the nashing of teeth , total darkness that will last forever? That's what it sounds like you're saying.

Hello @Sue D,

Thank you for coming back to me on this so soon.

The 'lake of fire', and the words, 'the gnashing of teeth', and, 'total darkness', must be looked at within their context: to determine what each refers to, mustn't they? I do not believe either have anything to do with Hell as the place of the dead: for there is no consciousness in death, so no awareness, no sensation, the body simply goes back to the dust from whence it came, and the breath of life, or spirit, goes back to God Who gave it.

* These terms relate to the judgement that takes place at the end of the age, don't they? and the fires of Gehenna, translated 'hell' in the gospel record, because it also is a place where the unbelieving 'dead', having been finally judged and sentenced, are destroyed (therefore is also the place of the dead).

Within the love of Christ,
our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Beetow]

● Heb 6:4-6 . . For it is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who
have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted
the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall
away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying
the Son of God afresh and subjecting him to public disgrace.

We know that with God nothing is impossible. So, I think we have to acquiesce that
the impossibility spoken of here is so because God has made it His mission in life,
so to speak, to assure that folks blessed with the level of advantages spoken of
above are never to be given an opportunity to reconsider-- ever. The die is cast.
_

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hello @Sue D,

Thank you for coming back to me on this so soon.

The 'lake of fire', and the words, 'the gnashing of teeth', and, 'total darkness', must be looked at within their context: to determine what each refers to, mustn't they? I do not believe either have anything to do with Hell as the place of the dead: for there is no consciousness in death, so no awareness, no sensation, the body simply goes back to the dust from whence it came, and the breath of life, or spirit, goes back to God Who gave it.

* These terms relate to the judgement that takes place at the end of the age, don't they? and the fires of Gehenna, translated 'hell' in the gospel record, because it also is a place where the unbelieving 'dead', having been finally judged and sentenced, are destroyed (therefore is also the place of the dead).

Within the love of Christ,
our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

“Born in spirit” is not limited to the Holy Spirit. It could be any evil spirit. And by default, everyone is born with one kind of evil spirit or another, and identity, intelligence, passion are all developed around that spirit, and without the Holy Spirit, more evil spirits will sneak in through all kinds of bad influences you'are exposed to. Possessed by these evil spirits, the host will be led to worship false gods. Whatever you invest most of your time, money and energy in, that's the false god you worship, whether you acknowledge it as a god or not. Rabbi Jonathan Rabbi calls them a "dark trinity": Baal - prosperity, Ishtar - sexuality and Molech - violence. An apostate Israel worshipped these gods in ancient times, and now they have transformed into modern forms, and we're repeating Israel's history. When life ends, the body simply returns to dust, while these evil spirits will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, that's what the Lake of FIre is for.

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: What is meant by soul?

REPLY: Soul began appearing in the Bible in the book of Genesis by the Hebrew
word nephesh (neh'-fesh) which isn't unique to human life. Its first appearance is at
Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at Gen
1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts; and again in
Gen 2:7 as the human creature; and yet again at Gen 9:10 to classify every living
thing aboard Noah's ark.

* God is said to have a soul. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer
32:41, and Zech 11:8)

Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness and self
awareness. It's sometimes a reference to as one's heart, e.g. Gen 34:3, and to
the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4.

All in all, soul is just another way of referring to that part of sentient life that we
call "self" which can be roughly defined as the element of our existence that makes
us an individual.

Jesus' followers can expect to retain their souls when they pass on, but things are
not looking good for the lost. According to Matt 10:28, people's souls survive
normal death, but do not survive Hell fire. That fact gives me pause to question
whether people condemned to the lake of fire-- depicted by Rev 20:11-15 --will be
aware of their circumstances in an environment that destroys both soul and body.

NOTE: Apparently the rich man of Luke 16:19-31 wasn't in the Hell fire yet when he
spoke with Abraham because he's depicted as completely sentient.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Deut 34:5-6 . . Moses the servant of The Lord died there in the land of Moab,
according to the word of The Lord. And He buried him in the valley in the land of
Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day.

A very curious scene unfolded during Moses' burial.

● Jude 1:9 . . But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the Devil
about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him,
but said: The Lord rebuke you.

* Though the passage above shows God responsible for Moses' burial, the actual
labor was apparently assigned.

Anyway; if the Devil would interfere with the burial of a holy man like Moses, then I
think we can safely assume he (or one of his minions) probably interferes with the
burials of ordinary folk too; and I should think the smartest way for him to interfere
is to ensure the minister comes out with nothing useful in his eulogy; but instead
with the usual mushy rhetoric by which nobody hearing it can be saved. (Just goes
to show that the Devil is not above walking over the bones of the dead to get what
he wants.)
_

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Hi all

I am very interested in your interpretation of scripture on hell / eternal lake of fire.

I think a poll will show this. Feel free to explain why you believe as you do.

I mention pets as they speak to a more humane living condition. Many unrepentant sinners love pets and treat them well. It would be extra torturous if pets were not in hell.

There will be no judging or debating here, each entitled to their own belief on an unknown future event.

I will ask mods to remove any post mocking a belief.

__________________________

I select ''Eternal torment - limited suffering, not such a bad place''.

For this reason:

Scripture says God is good Psalm 136:1, the definition of 'love' 1 John 4:7, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17, light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5, Impartial Acts 10:34, a just judge who does not pervert justice Job 34:12, rewards each according to their deeds Rom 2:6.

Scripture also teaches us that many righteous are barely saved 1 Pet 4:18, meaning there are many unrighteous barely not saved. I am no implying God is a fool that would send someone to hell if they would one-day desire true repentance of sin. I just feel it is important for us to grasp that there are levels of sinners. Just as there will be levels and rewards among the saints.

I believe Hell will be a place a good person would create. I say this because in Gen 3:22 we read God explaining that humans now know what is good and evil. Exactly as He and the angels know. Very important fact to consider. God has not got a code of ethics separate to us / something we cannot make sense of. When David says God is good in Psalm 136:1, I believe he meant it. When Jesus says 'only' God is truly good in Mark 10:18, I believe He meant it.

As such, I believe hell will be a place a good person approves of and one better then the Geneva convention (what the 'good' unsaved people of the world approve of). The Geneva convention started when the WW2 allies needed to separate and punish those Germans that were guilty of the greatest crimes against humanity. So, I would propose a good person will agree with the Geneva convention stipulations for those in hell, a Christian should do better and God...well since He is on the absolute side of perfection and love as only He is truly good Mark 10:18, even better. Many will propose that if God does something evil, we can't call Him out on it as He is ''God'', but this is not true. Abraham calls God out on the destruction of Sodom in Gen 18. God explains Himself to Abraham and he approves. We see this with Moses and the Hebrews worshipping the golden calf too in Exo 32.

God mentions four things about hell that I feel deserve explaining for much needed context. Before I start with them, I want you to consider how God mentioned only a few things to Adam and Eve on what awaited them after their sin. Gen 3 mentions, 1. Pain in childbirth, 2. Husband will rule over wife, 3. Cursed ground, 4. Dust to dust / no eternal life on earth. But what God did not mention was: 1. Nice fruit, 2. Beautiful beaches, 3. Having the ability to create tools to plough the field, 4. Create medicines and painkillers to help with childbirth, etc etc. Earth would and could be a very nice place if ''only'' the people on it were not evil. So why does God not mention all the good things about Earth and the life that awaits them in Gen 3? I am going to propose that He did not need to as Adam and Eve 'knew' it was a 'given' as they 'knew' God is good. We need to consider the same when using only a few verses as the A-Z explanation of eternal hell.

The four most impactful scriptural statements on hell to consider 1. Weeping and gnashing of teeth, 2. Darkness, 3. Eternal torment, 4. Fire.

1. Luke 13:28 says people in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see the saints and Jesus. They weep because they are cast out of heaven. This is a suffering linked to separation, not fire. I believe this is a very important fact to grasp.

2. In John 3:19 we see that Jesus says people love the darkness because their deeds are evil. Proposing that hell is not a place where the lights are permanently off. Darkness is a metaphor for a place where evil takes place. This makes sense as those in hell will be unrepentant sinners.

3. Eternal Torment. It makes sense to me that a good God gives true free will. ''Accept me, come be with me. Reject me, go be somewhere else''. God keeps the evil alive for all eternity as not doing so would be evil. 'No free will' is evil. Just ask any unlucky lady forced into an arranged marriage. As you are surrounded by unrepentant sinners and have fire, it will be a place of torment when compared to heaven.

4. Fire in hell I believe is badly mistaught.

We know from the story of the rich man speaking to Abraham, that he was able to have a conversation and asked for a drop of water on his tongue Luke 16. If you are on fire, will you ask for a drop of water or have a rational conversation with someone?

Scripture teaches us that there ''has'' to be a punishment for sin. God has set this in place as an absolute rule. Christians have the blood of Jesus covering them from all their sins, current and future. Those in hell, don't. As such, I firmly believe that fire is God's chosen method of punishment. Example: On year fifty in hell, you decide to stab your neighbor in the leg. A fire of sort for X amount of time will be on you. As evil continues forever among those that are in hell, so too does 'fire'.

I don't expect anythibg in hell....I'm not going there....I lost my ticket when I found Jesus.

 

[Beetow]

God prohibits dishonesty.

● Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

I think it's probably safe to posit that more liars are now, and more liars will be, in
Hell than anybody else simply because deceit, deception, fraud, fibs, cover-ups,
dissembling, cheating, false impressions, pretense, and half truths are far more
common.

● Rev 21:8 . . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.

Living in a world of liars below shouldn't be much different than living in a world of
liars up here so that folks who end up down there should fit right in; requiring only
minimal adjustment.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Ps 73:3-17 . . I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the
wicked. Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.

● Matt 16:26 . . For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses
his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

It's been my observation that many of the powerful folks controlling education,
finance, manufacturing, governance, entertainment, food production, health care,
pharmaceuticals, print media and broadcast news, etc, are quite lacking scruples,
and conduct their affairs as if they're foreign sovereigns with no one to answer to
beyond the sphere of their existence; not realizing that the path of their success is
leading them down a road of no return.
_

 

[Beetow]

Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead within 24
hours of tasting the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live outside the
garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son Seth. (Gen 5:4)

Some say Adam died a so-called "spiritual" death, and that's true, but not entirely
true, viz: the explanation isn't misinformation, rather, it's missing information.

Human life was created in the image and likeness of God. In other words: human
life came out of the box with immortality, i.e. with perpetual youth. Adam lost
it when he tasted the forbidden fruit, and he began to age.

Adam's body became infected with mortality, which is a lingering death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold Swarzenegger's
movie character "The Terminator" mortality feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse
nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely
will not stop-- ever! --until our useless corpse is ready for burial.

● Eccl 7:2 . . It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of
mirth, for death is the destiny of every man: the living should take this seriously.
(cf. Luke 12:16-21)

NOTE: Superhuman bodies like Arnold Swarzenegger's look indestructible while
young, but their youth isn't permanent. Today Arnold is pushing 76 and taking on
the appearance of withering vegetables.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1Cor 4:4 . . My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent.

During former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's assassination back in 2011, he
was overheard to complain: Why are you doing this? I've done nothing wrong.

Former US President Richard Nixon once stated-- in so many words --that when a
President breaks the law, it's not a crime.

Those two men serve to demonstrate just how unreliable the human conscience can
be at times.

Man was created with as near a perfect conscience as a creature can be given.

● Gen 1:27 . . God created Man in His own image, in the image of God created He
him.

But then came the forbidden fruit incident by which Man's near-divine conscience
underwent something that caused it to become humanistic.

● Gen 3:22 . . The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

Man was able to discern between good and evil before his fall, but that was by
means of a conscience influenced by its maker. The forbidden fruit incident altered
Man's conscience to become his own influence, i.e. Man became defensive, and he
rationalizes a lot too. (Rom 2:14-15)

I think the writer of 1Cor 4:4 was well aware of just how tricky Man's conscience
can be so he was reluctant to insist upon his innocence-- a little sophistry here and
a little there, and even monsters like Communist China's Xi Jinping and North
Korea's Kim Jong-Un can be persuaded in their own minds to believe themselves
okay guys.

● Jer 17:9-10 . .The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick;
who can understand it? . . . I, The Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to
give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds.

The upside is: Christ's crucifixion not only serves to save people from their sins, but
according to Heb 9:8-14 his death saves them from their conscience too.
_

 

[Beetow]

One of my favorite lines from the movie Titanic is when Mr. Ismay protests that the
ship can't sink; and Mr. Andrews responds: She's made of iron, sir! I assure you,
she can... and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.

There are folks at large all across the internet, and around the globe, sincerely
believing that Hell isn't a place of conscious suffering. They, like Mr. Ismay, will be
utterly stunned and bewildered to the limits of human astonishment to discover it's
exactly that.
_

 

[Beetow]

In the movie Shawshank Redemption a man is given two life sentences for
murders he didn't commit. At first he feels very strongly that the truth will come
out that he's innocent and doesn't belong in prison: he expects to eventually be
exonerated and set free.

Well, one of the old-timers cautioned him about that with the advice: Hope is a
dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's no use on the inside. You'd
better get used to that idea.

I'd imagine that most new arrivals in Hell take quite a while to get used to the idea
that it is what it is, i.e. they're never getting out.

Were Hell a normal penal colony like San Quentin or Riker's Island; then I think
most folks would eventually settle down and accept it as a way of life. But the
element of fire makes adjustment very difficult. If only there was at least some
water to help folks beat the heat, that would be very helpful. And maybe recreation
and/or something to occupy their minds like reading, writing, art, and construction
projects. I really don't know how people keep from running mad with insanity from
mental atrophy down there. And where do they sit down; on top of each other?
_

 

[Beetow]

In Jesus' case, mortality/immortality pertained only to his body rather than to both
his body and himself. Were that not so, then Jesus would've ceased to exist when
he expired on the cross, and in order to restore his corpse to life; it would've been
necessary to first return the man himself to existence.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that human life is entirely physical which, for them, isn't
exactly true. They hold to something called "life force" which enables the core of
one's being to exist. The life force is versatile. It can be taken from a spirit body,
transferred to a human body, and then transferred back again to the spirit body
from whence it came.

The JW life force suggests an interesting possibility. Supposing when folks are
terminated in the lake of fire per Rev 20:11-15, their life force survives to be
transferred to a spirit body; enabling them to be perfectly suited to join the Devil
and his angels per Matt 25:41, thus keeping the lost in existence for as long as God
deems necessary to accomplish retribution for their works per Rev 20:12.
_

 

[Beetow]

● 1 Tim 6:7 . .We brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry
nothing out.

We all walk a strange path. On the one hand we have to be ready to leave this life
on a moment's notice, while on the other hand ready for a long stay, i.e. live like
there's no tomorrow, and yet live like there are years to come.

Those two dissimilar expectations balance each other so that we don't live to
extremes in either direction: always keeping in mind that as we came into this
world empty-handed we will leave it empty-handed. So everyone should be
prepared to suffer the loss of every cherished personal item in their possession
that they hold dear; along with every project and every endeavor.

* When people pass away, they leave all behind, including the clothes they wore for
burial. Well; what are guys to do with their hands in Hell without pockets to put
them in?

Personally, I like to hook my thumbs in the front pockets of my jeans while waiting
in lines and such. I prefer that to folding my arms. Some guys prefer back pockets,
but what are they to do with no pockets?
_

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: Do people in Hell have immortality?

REPLY: No; when people pass on, they leave their bodies behind.

FAQ: Do people in Hell have eternal life?

REPLY: No; eternal life is a gift from God to folks who've bought into the gospel.

FAQ: If so that people in Hell have neither immortality nor eternal life, then how
can it be possible their conscious suffering is perpetual?

REPLY: The afterlife is something about which I know very little.

However, it's readily seen from Isaiah 14:4-20 and Luke 16:19-31 that folks on the
other side are conscious, sentient, and recognizable; plus, they exhibit human
characteristics, e.g. Abraham has a bosom, Lazarus has a finger, and the rich man
has a tongue. From all appearances, people over there appear fully human. Exactly
how that is, I don't really know. That world over there is obviously very different
than the world with which I am familiar over here.
_

 

[Beetow]

Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love,
everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was,
lived out their lives."

The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies,
and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every
creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in
love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher
of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every
saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-- on a mote of dust
suspended in a sunbeam. (Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot-- on imaging from Voyager 1)

The Earth is a literal death star, flying thru space, looping around and around the
Sun many times over and again: a floating grave yard whose soils and seas are
filled with the dead from many centuries stretching back to Abel: the first of its
passengers to return to the dust from whence they came.

● Eccl 7:2 . . It is better to spend your time at funerals than at festivals. For you
are going to die, and you should think about it while there is still time.
_

 

[Beetow]

● Gen 28:15 . . Remember, I am with you: I will protect you wherever you go and
will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have
promised you.

Hardly any of those promises were fulfilled in Jacob's lifetime. So how could God
say: "I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you"

Well; I think it best to take it that God remained Jacob's provider even in the grave,
i.e. when God's people pass away, they don't become dead to Him; whereas when
the wicked die, they no longer make any difference; for example:

"As to whether the dead will be raised-- Moses proved this when he wrote about the
burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, Moses wrote of The
Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the
God of the living, not the dead. They are all alive to him." (Luke 20:37-38)

God has always been with Jacob, and never left him even once-- all these many
years; better than three-thousand of them by now. And all this whole time Jacob
has lived under God's protection because God promised He would protect Jacob
wherever he went; and in order for that promise to be meaningful, it has to include
the afterlife. (cf. Ps 139:7-10 & Matt 16:18)
_