When will the rapture take place?

[Faithful Son]

If you made a typing mistake, then by all means I will regress and refrain from calling an error on your part. You did however unmistakingly say "Jesus came in the person of the Holy Spirit". Sorry to say, but there is only one interpretation of that sentence, that you said Christ and the Holy Spirit is one, or rather Christ is actually the person, Holy Spirit.

I am not here to argue or debate either, it's not my intention. My intention at being a member on Talk Jesus is to join in fellowship with believers across the world, to be of help to those that may require it and further to be supported in areas I may be lacking (which are many).

I have a problem with what Lightwait said, from his initial posts in the thread.

Christ said, not once, not twice, but many a time that He will return for His flock. He said He went to prepare a home for us:
John 14

The Way, the Truth, and the Life

1 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions;^[a] if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.^[b] 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Why would a builder build an abode, then have no one live in it? Why would God create the world and have no one live in it? Why would Jesus prepare our homes and not have us live in it?

He gave us the peace and knowledge with those words and He gave us the book of Revelation through John, to comfort us in the knowledge that He is in control and that He will return for us, in a very Mighty way.

God bless

 

[lightwait]

Lightwait, as per your posts, I can safely say that one of the greatest gifts of hope that Lord Jesus left us, His second coming, is not within you. I pity you for that, because you are living a life with no real goal, no end product.

I love Christ Jesus and I would hate to live a waking second without Him, but as God is my witness, I would not be the Christian I am today if I did not have the promise that my Lord is coming for me, in all His Power, Glory and Might.

Please post scripture pertaining to the sentence you are speaking of, don't post scripture that is unrelated to what you are speaking of.

This thread is 2 years old and I read it with a renewed understanding and faith, that whatever may come, He is alive.

Jesus came to sup with me. I am in Christ and Christ is in me. I am part of the body of Christ—part of the resurrection. Christ Jesus came for me and now my faith is the substance of things I hope for—I hope for and pray that the world might be saved. However, some "...concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I pity you for that, because you are living a life with no real goal, no end product.

I am risen with my Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus. I live in the last day, the eternal day where there is no night—in a place where there is only life. My "real goal" and the "end product" which Christ Jesus has given to me to see and labor toward, is that all on the earth may be saved—one by one, until the sound of the last trump.

Blessings

 

[lightwait]

Brother, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see a general gathering in the bible.

Jesus, when talking about everlasting life, says that the ones that believed on him,will be raised on the last day, and have everlasting life, John 6:40.

In the preceding verse, Jesus is talking about ALL the Father has given him, and in John 17:11, Jesus prays for those the Father has given him, and not just for the ones then, but for ALL, verse 20. Jesus says that "it" [ referring to ALL ] shall be raised up again AT the last day. THIS IS THE FATHERS WILL! ALL means all those who died as Christians will be raised collectively [ all together at one time ].

Now we know that all that believe in Jesus [ born again ] will be raised up at the last day. What about the ones still alive on the last day? Paul says that they [ the dead ] will be changed into incorruptible, and "we" [ Paul thought that "the last day" might come in his lifetime ] will be changed. 1 Corint 15:52.

What are we changed into?

"For this corruptible [ those back to dust ] must put on incorruption,
and this mortal, [ those alive ] must put on immortality". Verse 53.
We shall bear the image of the heavenly.

My brother references Col. 3 "For if ye be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God".

The term "risen" in the above is not refering to resurrection of the mortal
body. It is referring to being raised spiritualy after being buried with Christ in baptism, to walk in "newness of life", Romans 6:1-8.

My brother says, "If you are raised with Christ, he has returned for you".

My bible says that Jesus told his disciples that where he was going, they could not come, John 13:33. But that they would go where he was going later [ at the resurrection ]. Jesus did come in the person of the Holy Spirit, not to resurrect, but to comfort the believer, John 14:18. AND to testify of Jesus so that you can bear witness, 15:26,27.

Blessings to you, brother Lightwait

Thank you for your kind words.

I see and live in the "last day".

1Joh 5:
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (Not has come)

John 13:
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

In the preceding verse, Jesus is talking about ALL the Father has given him, and in John 17:11, Jesus prays for those the Father has given him, and not just for the ones then, but for ALL, verse 20. Jesus says that "it" [ referring to ALL ] shall be raised up again AT the last day. THIS IS THE FATHERS WILL! ALL means all those who died as Christians will be raised collectively [ all together at one time ].

I know this: Once I knew, saw and experienced eternity (eternal life), the last day, I was, at that moment, raised with Christ. Christ Jesus, the light of the world, came to sup with me and I now am raised with and live with/in Him who is in God the Father who is in heaven.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

As He did with Paul on the road to Damascus, Christ Jesus appeared to me. I cannot deny that though I am of the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus came to sup with me and my life is now caught away and hid with Christ in God.

The Bible says: Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Col 1:
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

As we preach the Gospel to all nations, more and more will believe, repent, be saved and raised with Christ Jesus—all who do now and will believe are and will be raised together in Christ Jesus—those who are save now and those who are yet to come to our Lord. The end will come when all nations/ethnic groups hear the Gospel. As this happens, those who do not yet believe will be judged according to their works:

Rev 20:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Blessings

 

[ElderPaul]

When will the rapture take place

Okay, let's start over. What I believe:

I believe, according to the word of God:

The God-head is made up of three distinct persons.

There is the Father

There is the Son

There is the Holy Ghost

When Jesus was on earth, he prayed to the Father, who was in heaven.

When Jesus ascended back to heaven, he sent the Holy Spirit back
to earth, to comfort, and dwell within a born again person. The Holy
Spirit also teaches the Christian, and testifies of Jesus.

"But when the comforter is come, whom I will sent unto you from the Father, even the spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he
shall testify of me", John 15:26.

I have never believed that Jesus and the Holy spirit were one. I have never taught that they were one.

However, I did mistakenly say that Jesus CAME in the person of the Holy Spirit, when the MEANING that I wanted to convey was that the
Holy Spirit was to TESTIFY of Jesus, and bring to remembrance all the teaching that Jesus had done while on earth. That is how I see Jesus being with us. Jesus is with us through the Spirit.

Jesus did not come again when we were born again.
He did not come again in 70 A.D.
He is coming one more time to gather the church, and to destroy those who are destroying the earth, Rev 11:18.


"And he shall sent Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you;
whom the heaven [ third heaven ] must receive, UNTIL the times of restitution of ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began", Acts 3:20,21.

May God forgive those that offend, intentionly, or not.

God bless,
elderPaul

 

[lightwait]

A couple of questions for all:

In the following verses, did Christ Jesus come to the earth to visit the Apostle Paul?

Is Christ Jesus, in the following verses, the light of the world?

Acts 26:
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

For these same reasons, I am, in most Christian circles, called a heretic...

Another question: Was Paul, during his time on this planet, caught up to the third heaven?

2 Cor 12:
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

According to the Bible—Did Jesus come to this planet to visit Paul and was it Christ Jesus who enabled Paul to be caught away?

Blessings

 

[Faithful Son]

Thanks for clarifying ElderPaul, God bless.

Lightwait, it is fine and well that you believe Jesus comes to speak with you. Just remember one thing though. Jesus would never reveal or say anything which contradicts what He said whilst He was on earth.

Satan can appear as a worker of good, Angel of light, but he still remains Satan.

We are called to reaffirm what we believe with God's Word. You are taking a tiny part of God's Word and you are adding the rest to make sense in your mind.

As it has been clearly presented, read Mattew 24 as well, Christ will return to earth to physically catch away His flock, not just in a "sense" or in a "feeling", but physical.

I will pray for you Lightwait, because I think you are duped into believing lies that are not from God.

 

[ElderPaul]

When will the rapture take place

Where are you Lion_of_Judah?

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

:laugh:

Where are you Lion_of_Judah?

:helppc: I've been rather .....taken... my attention that is.

Haven't had time for a lengthy answer. But as soon as I do,
I'll get it right up and the light will suddenly dawn for all of you :giggle:

 

[lightwait]

Why will you folks not answer/discuss my questions?

In the Revelation, 2000 years ago, was John taken up into heaven?

Please listen, I am not saying I am special—I am not. I am asking you to see in the Bible that which I see.

Paul was caught up. John was taken up to heaven. Were others in heaven with John?

Blessings

 

[Coconut]

I dont think anyone is responding to those questions because its a moot point lightwait...well I probably shouldnt speak for anyone else...so let me say its a moot point...and i`m a little afraid to ask what you think these have to do with the 'rapture' (and yes I know that terminology is not used in scripture)


Tell me what you do with 1Th 4:17 if, as you claim, we are going to meet Christ "one by one" If every man, woman and child named in the Testament of Christ was caught up to the third heaven, what has that to do with us? How does that negate us being "caught up together in the air" as it is written we will be. I`m having a difficult time taking your special revelations seriously, when they do not agree with scripture, scholars of the scripture, nor the doctrines of Christianity since Christ Himself was translated.


1Th 4:16 Because the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a word of authority, with the voice of the chief angel, with the sound of a horn: and the dead in Christ will come to life first; Then we who are still living will be taken up together with them into the clouds to see the Lord in the air: and so will we be for ever with the Lord. So then, give comfort to one another with these words.

Let me add, you are not talking to light weights here, (babes) there are some here who know the scripture so well they make me look like a light weight I know a man who was caught up to the Heavens, and seen Christ, but if he tries to tell me things that contradict the Word of God, do you really think his special revelation is going to hold any weight? Nay, its not worth the weight of a sock.

 

[Coconut]

:laugh:



:helppc: I've been rather .....taken... my attention that is.

Haven't had time for a lengthy answer. But as soon as I do,
I'll get it right up and the light will suddenly dawn for all of you :giggle:

Oh that was ridiculously funny!

 

[lightwait]

I dont think anyone is responding to those questions because its a moot point lightwait...well I probably shouldnt speak for anyone else...so let me say its a moot point...and i`m a little afraid to ask what you think these have to do with the 'rapture' (and yes I know that terminology is not used in scripture)


Tell me what you do with 1Th 4:17 if, as you claim, we are going to meet Christ "one by one" If every man, woman and child named in the Testament of Christ was caught up to the third heaven, what has that to do with us? How does that negate us being "caught up together in the air" as it is written we will be. I`m having a difficult time taking your special revelations seriously, when they do not agree with scripture, scholars of the scripture, nor the doctrines of Christianity since Christ Himself was translated.


1Th 4:16 Because the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a word of authority, with the voice of the chief angel, with the sound of a horn: and the dead in Christ will come to life first; Then we who are still living will be taken up together with them into the clouds to see the Lord in the air: and so will we be for ever with the Lord. So then, give comfort to one another with these words.

Let me add, you are not talking to light weights here, (babes) there are some here who know the scripture so well they make me look like a light weight I know a man who was caught up to the Heavens, and seen Christ, but if he tries to tell me things that contradict the Word of God, do you really think his special revelation is going to hold any weight? Nay, its not worth the weight of a sock.

Thank you for being kind in you answer. However, I wish you would answer the questions I posed.

We are told that no person knows when this will take place. We the Christian community continue to separate ourselves from each other by trying to decide when the event will happen. No person knows. The following verse does not put a time frame on things.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Look, I just want the Christian community to discontinue in their processes of separation. The whole "Rapture" thing is vanity and the doctrine of men. I do not care how scholarly the doctrine may seem. How do you think it looks to the world when we argue and even go to war with each other because of our doctrines.

Mat 24:
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

As each person is saved and the Lord comes to sup with them, they will go out into the world and preach the gospel of the kingdom to all nations. The word for "nations" is ethnos, meaning ethnic group—not nation as we see the separation today.

Again, when a person believes and repents and calls on the Lord and is saved, the Lord Jesus Christ comes to sup with him and then he goes out into the world to preach the gospel of the kingdom. When all ethnic groups have been preached to, then the end will come—no man knows when that will be. Jesus Christ did not tell us. So, it behooves us to stop arguing with each other over the doctrine of men and "first" seek the kingdom.

We are the lights to the world. Christ Jesus is manifest in the mortal flesh of those who are saved. We are the body of Christ and members of the resurrection. Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Get the point! Christ Jesus "is come" to those who believe and He dwells in us.

Concerning 1Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Others got saved and were raised with Christ Jesus. They preached the Gospel of the Kingdom to me. I met Christ Jesus. I am now raised together with them to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be withthe Lord.

His saving grace, that raises the believer up to meet him in the clouds, happens one by one, until the Kingdom is preached to all nations—then the end shall come. No man knows when the end will come.

Blessings

 

[ElderPaul]

When will the rapture take place

To lightwait,

I'm very sorry Lightwait, but what you are teaching is not what the
scriptures are saying. You are trying to convey all meaning of scripture to a spiritual happening, but that doesn't apply to prophecy.

What do you call your theory, and are you alone in this thinking?

You have been rejected from the very first post that you made. You are talking to people that have studied the word of God for a long time,
and you will not change their minds.

If you really believed what you are teaching, you would and try and find a different audience, and not continue to cast YOUR PEARLS before swine, [ myself, and others who disagree with you ].

God bless you

 

[ElderPaul]

:laugh:



:helppc: I've been rather .....taken... my attention that is.

Haven't had time for a lengthy answer. But as soon as I do,
I'll get it right up and the light will suddenly dawn for all of you :giggle:

That's great LOJ! Hope that it isn't LIGHT tuna.

God bless

 

[ElderPaul]

Hi, I'm a new member, and trying to make my mind up about which is biblical, pre- or post trib. Some teach that the gathering of the church will be before the tribulation, and others teach after. They both throw in a lot of human wisdom, but can any of you show me where Jesus, Paul, and the other writers of the new testament, make
a distinction in their writings, telling us there are two comings?

Just a reminder so that you have to look up the question, LOJ.

God bless

 

[ElderPaul]

I know, I left out the word "won't".

 

[lightwait]

To lightwait,

I'm very sorry Lightwait, but what you are teaching is not what the
scriptures are saying. You are trying to convey all meaning of scripture to a spiritual happening, but that doesn't apply to prophecy.

What do you call your theory, and are you alone in this thinking?

You have been rejected from the very first post that you made. You are talking to people that have studied the word of God for a long time,
and you will not change their minds.

If you really believed what you are teaching, you would and try and find a different audience, and not continue to cast YOUR PEARLS before swine, [ myself, and others who disagree with you ].

God bless you

Jesus said:
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The words teach us. We think and do accordingly. The words are the spirit that is in us—if we believe.

I do not cast my pearls before swine. I am to love the world.

Blessings

 

[Faithful Son]

Lightwait. Are you calling us swine? If you are, please say so, but don't hint at it.

A swine is as a dog and a viper, a horrid creature made to wallow in it's own filth day and night, Christian men and woman are not swine.

I pose a question to your fundementals today. What do you think the gift of Salvation is?

Is Salvation merely the fact that a person calls on the name of Jesus and asks Him to come live in their hearts? I doubt it.

Is Salvation maybe the fact that a 23 year old junkie goes to church and hears a message of repentance and stops doing drugs? I doubt it.

Is Salvation in our hands? Are we as humans capable of having the Authority of saving anyone? I doubt it.

Let me show you what Salvation is, the only possible way of Salvation:

John 6:35-51 ESV
35Jesus said to them, <woj> "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.</woj> 36<woj>But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.</woj> 37<woj> All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.</woj> 38<woj>For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.</woj> 39<woj>And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.</woj> 40<woj>For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."</woj>
41So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, <woj> "I am the bread that came down from heaven."</woj> 42They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, <woj>'I have come down from heaven'</woj>?" 43Jesus answered them, <woj>"Do not grumble among yourselves.</woj> 44<woj>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.</woj> 45<woj>It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—</woj> 46<woj> not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.</woj> 47<woj>Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.</woj> 48<woj> I am the bread of life.</woj> 49<woj> Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.</woj> 50<woj> This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.</woj> 51<woj>I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."</woj>

<woj></woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>You can preach the Word of God and the message of the Gospel to the whole world with a Gigantic Gargatuan Microphone, but my friend, it won't help at all.</woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>Those who have heard and learned from the Father, those come to Christ. Those who are not "drawn" or called by the Father, they can not find Jesus.</woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>Your fundamentals are incorrect. A million preachers can't save, even if they all claim to have suped with Jesus. Only the Father draws to Christ and Jesus alone has the power to save!
</woj>

 

[Coconut]

Actually Faithful Son it was ElderPaul that used the word swine, using a non applicable text to make a point ...no offense intended i`m sure...

If you really believed what you are teaching, you would and try and find a different audience, and not continue to cast YOUR PEARLS before swine, [ myself, and others who disagree with you ].

Now ElderPaul...I do agree with your point...tho I wont agree that 'casting pearls before swine' has any application to myself whatsoever lol

Lightwait: Look, I just want the Christian community to discontinue in their processes of separation. The whole "Rapture" thing is vanity and the doctrine of men. I do not care how scholarly the doctrine may seem.

The Christian community will cease to separate from one another when we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (call that catching away, or whatever word you want, but your refuting it, isnt going to negate this promise, or keep the bride from being comforted by this promise)...and the Lord will continue the process of separation where we left off, the goats on one hand and the sheep on the other, even so come Lord Jesus!

You are ignoring a whole lot of scripture in favor of teaching that the rapture is a "vanity and doctrine of man" and as such, I agree with ElderPaul in saying you need to find a different audience, teaching that is contrary to scripture is not accepted here, as far as we have the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[lightwait]

Lightwait. Are you calling us swine? If you are, please say so, but don't hint at it.

A swine is as a dog and a viper, a horrid creature made to wallow in it's own filth day and night, Christian men and woman are not swine.

I pose a question to your fundementals today. What do you think the gift of Salvation is?

Is Salvation merely the fact that a person calls on the name of Jesus and asks Him to come live in their hearts? I doubt it.

Is Salvation maybe the fact that a 23 year old junkie goes to church and hears a message of repentance and stops doing drugs? I doubt it.

Is Salvation in our hands? Are we as humans capable of having the Authority of saving anyone? I doubt it.

Let me show you what Salvation is, the only possible way of Salvation:

John 6:35-51 ESV
35Jesus said to them, <woj> "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.</woj> 36<woj>But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.</woj> 37<woj> All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.</woj> 38<woj>For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.</woj> 39<woj>And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.</woj> 40<woj>For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."</woj>
41So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, <woj> "I am the bread that came down from heaven."</woj> 42They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, <woj>'I have come down from heaven'</woj>?" 43Jesus answered them, <woj>"Do not grumble among yourselves.</woj> 44<woj>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.</woj> 45<woj>It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—</woj> 46<woj> not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.</woj> 47<woj>Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.</woj> 48<woj> I am the bread of life.</woj> 49<woj> Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.</woj> 50<woj> This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.</woj> 51<woj>I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."</woj>

<woj></woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>You can preach the Word of God and the message of the Gospel to the whole world with a Gigantic Gargatuan Microphone, but my friend, it won't help at all.</woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>Those who have heard and learned from the Father, those come to Christ. Those who are not "drawn" or called by the Father, they can not find Jesus.</woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>Your fundamentals are incorrect. A million preachers can't save, even if they all claim to have suped with Jesus. Only the Father draws to Christ and Jesus alone has the power to save!
</woj>

Have you ever thought about being nice?

It is ElderPaul that is suggesting that I am casting my pearls before swine. Do you read the Bible like you read these posts—looking for the wrong? I am simply telling ElderPaul that I do not because I am instructed to love the world. Were I to ever think of any person as a swine, I could never give them the gospel. Again, God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. I want to give the Son of God to the world by helping the world to look at the teachings given to us by God the Father.

The last day is when we are ordained to eternal life:

Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

As the Apostle Paul did on the road to Damascus, I have seen my Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I have been given eternal life—the same that is the last day.

Please be nice, I mean no harm to you or any other.

I am a Christian. I believe only the precepts that are in the Bible. I do not believe the doctrine of man. I studied the Bible, by myself, every day and all day for five years after meeting Christ Jesus. For another 10 years I studied 1000 books on languages and theology and the doctrine of many denominations. I found that I wanted to serve them all to help bring the body together. I have preached and taught in many many different churches and never have I been treated as I am treated here. I saw in the Revelation that there were seven churches all were different and only two, Smyrna and Philadelphia, were doing things according to the teachings of God. However, they were all, even those who were given to overcome their deficiencies, and according to Christ Jesus, called the Church.

I know in my heart that the varied teachings of the Rapture are of the minds of men and vanities of vanity. The teachings cause separation in the Body of Christ.

All the churches in the Revelation thought they were correct.