Why does God send people to hell?

[Rhema]

Hell, literally meaning a "concealed place"

Garee, Hell does NOT literally mean a "concealed place."

Where did you get this from?

Hell is the English word chosen to translated the Greek word hades

LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for hades
A. II. as appellative,Hades, the world below

2. the grave, death,​

C'mon friend, you have GOT to stop making things up.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

And has as others have said, mankind who bring evil from their hearts are sent to hell.

... the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;​

(Genesis 8:21 KJV)

 

[Garee]

Garee, Hell does NOT literally mean a "concealed place."

Where did you get this from?

Hell is the English word chosen to translated the Greek word hades

LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for hades
A. II. as appellative,Hades, the world below

2. the grave, death,​

C'mon friend, you have GOT to stop making things up.

Thanks,
Rhema

Thanks sorry for misunderstanding

hell (n.)​

also Hell, Old English hel, helle, "nether world, abode of the dead, infernal regions, place of torment for the wicked after death," from Proto-Germanic *haljō "the underworld" (source also of Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place" (compare Old Norse hellir "cave, cavern"), from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save."

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Belly of the whale. . heart of the earth. hidden places of suffering crying out to God. God strengthened them to finish the spiritual work.

God does not hear the cry of the dead. Both Jonah and Jesus were strengthened to preach the gospel.

Jonah the murmurer kicked against the pricks the letter of the law (death) and wanted to die showing us his racist spirit.

While Jesus the Son of man did the will of the father that worked within to both (the key) reveal the will and empower to do it to the father good pleasure.

Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter with a living hope beyond hell.

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
;Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

 

[Rhema]

Thanks sorry for misunderstanding

Your misunderstanding comes from your use of bad translations.

Jonah 2:2 was not written with the word "hell." The Hebrew text LITERALLY says SHEOL. And the Greek LXX literally says κοιλιας which means belly.

You will always misunderstand if you mix everything all together... like colours, it will all turn to brown.

The Etymology of a word is NOT the definition.

- Your link came from an online Etymology Dictionary, not a real dictionary. LINK

Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place"​

We don't speak Old Saxon, Dutch, Old Norse, or German. While an English word may have originated in those languages, it doesn't mean the same thing as in those languages.

Follow this LINK to the Cambridge Dictionary of ENGLISH... and show me where it says that hell literally means a "concealed place."

Don't get confused between the Definition of a word and its Etymology (LINK).

Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter with a living hope beyond hell.

How can you be yoked with him if you use wrong words?

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Bill]

Your misunderstanding comes from your use of bad translations.

Jonah 2:2 was not written with the word "hell." The Hebrew text LITERALLY says SHEOL. And the Greek LXX literally says κοιλιας which means belly.

You will always misunderstand if you mix everything all together... like colours, it will all turn to brown.

The Etymology of a word is NOT the definition.

- Your link came from an online Etymology Dictionary, not a real dictionary. LINK

Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place"​

We don't speak Old Saxon, Dutch, Old Norse, or German. While an English word may have originated in those languages, it doesn't mean the same thing as in those languages.

Follow this LINK to the Cambridge Dictionary of ENGLISH... and show me where it says that hell literally means a "concealed place."

Don't get confused between the Definition of a word and its Etymology (LINK).


How can you be yoked with him if you use wrong words?

Blessings,
Rhema

Just a question are you saying that Sheol is equated as hell . I always thought they were two separate things all together.

 

[Rhema]

Just a question are you saying that Sheol is equated as hell . I always thought they were two separate things all together.

And that's a really good question. Enough to have me pontificate.

When Alexander the Great (a Greek) conquered everything from Italy to India - the whole known world; he wept because there were no more empires to conquer. But rumor had it that he encountered an "exotic woman" in India. Now what would be exotic if not an Indian woman? But think about it. They were all Indian women in India, right? So amongst the millions of Indian women, what would be exotic? A Chinese chick. I contend that Alexander the Great saw a Chinese chick and contracted Yellow Fever. And went, 'Saddle up me boys, we're going east to conquer some more women,' (sorry - empires). But unfortunately he woke up dead the next morning. See; his generals hadn't been home for thirty years or more, and ... well you get my drift.

All this to say that when the generals battled it out for territory, Ptolemy the First took over Egypt. His successor, Ptolemy II looked around his kingdom, especially in the city of Alexandria, and thought, "HECK !!! I got a lot of JEWS here, and I have no clue what these people believe." And so he commissioned a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, which we know today as the Septuagint or the LXX.

Whenever the Septuagint translators encountered the Hebrew word SHEOL, they used the Greek word HADES in their translation. So yes, the Greek LXX directly equates Sheol with Hades, and then by extension Hell.

But that doesn't mean that Jews believed Greek theology. There was just no better Greek word available for SHEOL.

The best way to understand all this, then, is backwards - when one reads Hell, one should think Hades, but know the Jews meant Sheol, which is the hole dug in the ground into which dead corpses are buried.

So Sheol doesn't mean Hell.... Hell means Sheol.

Thank you Bill, I had fun typing this. The most fun I had all day. (@Christ4Ever)

Rhema

(Disclaimer, the narrative about Alexander the Great is based upon my own personal experience with an exotic woman - yes, a Chinese chick - who then married me. Our first date was at a 12 course banquet held for her grandmother's 85 birthday party in Chinatown, and I had never eaten Chinese food before. I never had a chance.)

 

[Bill]

And that's a really good question. Enough to have me pontificate.

When Alexander the Great (a Greek) conquered everything from Italy to India - the whole known world; he wept because there were no more empires to conquer. But rumor had it that he encountered an "exotic woman" in India. Now what would be exotic if not an Indian woman? But think about it. They were all Indian women in India, right? So amongst the millions of Indian women, what would be exotic? A Chinese chick. I contend that Alexander the Great saw a Chinese chick and contracted Yellow Fever. And went, 'Saddle up me boys, we're going east to conquer some more women,' (sorry - empires). But unfortunately he woke up dead the next morning. See; his generals hadn't been home for thirty years or more, and ... well you get my drift.

All this to say that when the generals battled it out for territory, Ptolemy the First took over Egypt. His successor, Ptolemy II looked around his kingdom, especially in the city of Alexandria, and thought, "HECK !!! I got a lot of JEWS here, and I have no clue what these people believe." And so he commissioned a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, which we know today as the Septuagint or the LXX.

Whenever the Septuagint translators encountered the Hebrew word SHEOL, they used the Greek word HADES in their translation. So yes, the Greek LXX directly equates Sheol with Hades, and then by extension Hell.

But that doesn't mean that Jews believed Greek theology. There was just no better Greek word available for SHEOL.

The best way to understand all this, then, is backwards - when one reads Hell, one should think Hades, but know the Jews meant Sheol, which is the hole dug in the ground into which dead corpses are buried.

So Sheol doesn't mean Hell.... Hell means Sheol.

Thank you Bill, I had fun typing this. The most fun I had all day. (@Christ4Ever)

Rhema

(Disclaimer, the narrative about Alexander the Great is based upon my own personal experience with an exotic woman - yes, a Chinese chick - who then married me. Our first date was at a 12 course banquet held for her grandmother's 85 birthday party in Chinatown, and I had never eaten Chinese food before. I never had a chance.)

I had always looked at Sheol as where the souls of Abraham and all who had not heard " The Word " , waited. Those along with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah even though they were judged in the Old Testament they still had not received Jesus.

This is why I believe that Jesus makes the statement to the Pharisees that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will be judged less harshly than the people of this day.

Because even though the Pharisees did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, that Jesus knew that they had the Messiah before them and he spoke the truth. The truth of God was before them and they had nowhere to go. However the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had never experienced that

 

[Twistie]

Somewhere in this thread I was reading conversation where people were talking about how your actions in life will result in where you go. And there was some question to whether or not that has to do with Works versus Faith.

I know there's a really big hang up on the word Works, and I think it's one of the things that people really get confused over it's real meaning. The best I can explain the word, it is Christ working through you.

We know that if the Holy Spirit inspires you to do something and you completely ignore it even though you know it's from the Holy Spirit, you are ignoring the movement of God within you. What does this tell us about who we are as Christians, that we pick and choose what God wants from us?

Here is a scripture verse of what I'm talking about

34 "Then the King will say to those on his
right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my
Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom
prepared for you since the creation of the
world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me
something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave
me something to drink, I was a stranger and
you invited me in, 36 1 needed clothes and you
clothed me, I was sick and you looked after
me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.


37 "Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord,
when did we see you hungry and feed you, or
thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite
you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and
go to visit you?


40 "The King will reply, "Truly I tell you,
whatever you did for one of the least of these
brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

You see here we have people who are inspired by the spirit to help the sick and feed the hungry and to cloth the naked. Obviously they did not even know it was the Holy Spirit that was inspiring them to do that yet they still did it out of the kindness of their hearts. Is this what we think of as works, and yet these are the very things that God looks at

I'm confused when one calls following the Lord's ways works I mean if one claims to love a baby do they consider what they do for that baby work? Or is it just done because they Love that baby so it confuses me how one claims Love for the Lord n yet cries work ...

Either one has the natural instinct and compassion to help those whom the Lord gives us to help or they do not why discernment is a must in this topsy-turvy world..

←⁠(⁠>⁠▽⁠<⁠)⁠ﾉ

 

[Rhema]

I had always looked at Sheol as where the souls of Abraham and all who had not heard " The Word " , waited.

As in conscious and hanging around waiting?

For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.​

(Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 Douay Rheims)

When one looks just at OT theology, the living are composed only of the body and a spirit from God:

And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.​

(Genesis 2:7 Douay Rheims)

You = Body + Spirit = Soul

The body returns back to the dust, and the spirit returns back to God. So is God in hell? Sorry,0 I don't have the time to present a detailed rationale, but the spirit of a man (according to OT theology) is subsumed back into God, and a person then no longer exists. The Sadducees believed that this was the final state of man. Jesus disagreed, saying that since God is the God of the living, there will come a Resurrection when God (for lack of a better term) puts people back together again.

But dead people are dead. They cannot love, they cannot hate, they know nothing at all anymore. They don't exist until the Resurrection. The dead are not alive somewhere else (now). They're dead.

Paul, however, was a Hellenist Jew, who adopted Greek philosophy, whereby there are (supposedly) three parts to a person.

You = Soul + Body + Spirit

It doesn't seem that Jesus was Hellenist, though.

And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna ("hell"). ​

(Matthew 10:28 DRB)

Here, Jesus mentions only two elements. And while Jesus does speak about the spirit, there's no verse that specifies the tripartite Greek construct. (As a side note, the soul is not immortal then.)

Watch ye: and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.​

(Matthew 26:41 DRB)

Again, only two elements are mentioned.

So what to make of this?

You = Soul = Body + Spirit (which may or may not be holy in nature)

God can destroy (obliterate) the Soul and do so permanently, which is why I remain an "obliterationist."

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[twcstp]

God doesn't send anyone to hell. Not even 1.

Judas Iscariot made a choice, betrayed Jesus, and then 'went to his own place.'

Even after Jesus was killed, the Apostles preached repentance to them; God's lovingkindness still stretched out to them, to save them & redeem them. Book of Acts. Chapters 1-3. Let's look at what the Apostles told them:

Acts 3:19​

19&nbsp;Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Let's look at how things progress... God's hand of love and mercy still stretched out... preaching even to them the same EXACT message!
be done.
29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.



He's not sending anyone to hell at all. It's truly a decision someone has to make... repeatedly... over & over & over..... God always leaves the door open, even to the last minute.

 

[KingJ]

I had always looked at Sheol as where the souls of Abraham and all who had not heard " The Word " , waited. Those along with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah even though they were judged in the Old Testament they still had not received Jesus.

This is why I believe that Jesus makes the statement to the Pharisees that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will be judged less harshly than the people of this day.

Because even though the Pharisees did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, that Jesus knew that they had the Messiah before them and he spoke the truth. The truth of God was before them and they had nowhere to go. However the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had never experienced that

Scripture mentions 1. Sheol (in the OT), 2. a divide in Sheol called Abraham's bosom, 3. Hades (in the NT) and 4. the lake of fire.

Luke 16:19-31 speaks to a divide in Sheol / Hades. One side has agonising fire, the other side, Abraham's bosom, does not. Hades is a NT Greek translation for Sheol.

Death and Sheol / Hades is thrown into the lake of fire Rev 20:14.

As Hades has both a place of fire and a paradise, it seems to suggest that all repentant sinners were separated from unrepentant long before the cross. This fact shines a lot of light on what exactly a Christian is and what God wants from mankind.

Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

 

[Rhema]

I had always looked at Sheol as where the souls of Abraham and all who had not heard " The Word " , waited. Those along with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah even though they were judged in the Old Testament they still had not received Jesus.

Hi Bill, when studying scripture to understand the disposition of departed souls, there are five terms that come into play.

Sheol
Hades
Abraham's Bosom
Gehenna
Tartarus

In essence, Hades was merely the Greek word used for Sheol in the Septuagint. So to weed out Greek philosophical nonsense, I hope at sometime a translation will be made that uses a functional equivalent whereby "hell" is written as Sheol.

Abraham's Bosom is mentioned only in Luke chapter 16 and nowhere else, and it should be noted that the word Sheol is NOT used in that passage (although Hades is). In light of the clear doctrine established in Ecclesiastes (see my previous post) there's no doubt that Luke is relating a metaphor rather than describing elements of reality. Luke likes to include spiritual stories in his narrative.

At times, Jesus talks about Sheol, other times about Gehenna, which is a reference to the valley of Hinnom. First spoken of in Joshua chapter 15, Gehenna is a somewhat complicated topic, interwoven with the practice of making a son or daughter "pass through the fire to Molech" (cf. 2Ki 23:10). Also:

And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Ennom (Gehenna), to burn their sons, and their daughters in the fire: which I commanded not, nor thought on in my heart.​

(Jeremiah 7:31 DRB)

In the New Testament, Tartarus is used once, and only once, in 2nd Peter, described in the Douay Rheims as "lower hell." It's a purely Greek word and Greek concept pulled directly from Plato, so have some fun - LINK to Tartarus. Since 2nd Peter is not in our canon, I've not chased down that rabbit hole to any great extent.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Bill]

I'm confused when one calls following the Lord's ways works I mean if one claims to love a baby do they consider what they do for that baby work? Or is it just done because they Love that baby so it confuses me how one claims Love for the Lord n yet cries work ...

Either one has the natural instinct and compassion to help those whom the Lord gives us to help or they do not why discernment is a must in this topsy-turvy world..

←⁠(⁠>⁠▽⁠<⁠)⁠ﾉ

I thought the same way that you're talking here when my mom passed away. When my brother and sister demanded to be paid for taking care of my mom while she was dying. I thought, what the heck? Isn't this something that you would do normally without expecting to get paid for?

 

[Bill]

As in conscious and hanging around waiting?

For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.​

(Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 Douay Rheims)

When one looks just at OT theology, the living are composed only of the body and a spirit from God:

And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.​

(Genesis 2:7 Douay Rheims)

You = Body + Spirit = Soul

The body returns back to the dust, and the spirit returns back to God. So is God in hell? Sorry,0 I don't have the time to present a detailed rationale, but the spirit of a man (according to OT theology) is subsumed back into God, and a person then no longer exists. The Sadducees believed that this was the final state of man. Jesus disagreed, saying that since God is the God of the living, there will come a Resurrection when God (for lack of a better term) puts people back together again.

But dead people are dead. They cannot love, they cannot hate, they know nothing at all anymore. They don't exist until the Resurrection. The dead are not alive somewhere else (now). They're dead.

Paul, however, was a Hellenist Jew, who adopted Greek philosophy, whereby there are (supposedly) three parts to a person.

You = Soul + Body + Spirit

It doesn't seem that Jesus was Hellenist, though.

And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna ("hell"). ​

(Matthew 10:28 DRB)

Here, Jesus mentions only two elements. And while Jesus does speak about the spirit, there's no verse that specifies the tripartite Greek construct. (As a side note, the soul is not immortal then.)

Watch ye: and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.​

(Matthew 26:41 DRB)

Again, only two elements are mentioned.

So what to make of this?

You = Soul = Body + Spirit (which may or may not be holy in nature)

God can destroy (obliterate) the Soul and do so permanently, which is why I remain an "obliterationist."

Kindly,
Rhema

I think you're a little bit confused between those who are living and those who are dead.

The true dead are those who have died the second death.

Evidently cite him and Gomorrah have not suffered the second death otherwise Jesus wouldn't have said that they would be judged less harshly. Because even though a person dies in this world does not mean that they are dead. True does only comes from those who reject Jesus all together.

 

[Garee]

Your misunderstanding comes from your use of bad translations.

Jonah 2:2 was not written with the word "hell." The Hebrew text LITERALLY says SHEOL. And the Greek LXX literally says κοιλιας which means belly.

You will always misunderstand if you mix everything all together... like colours, it will all turn to brown.

The Etymology of a word is NOT the definition.

- Your link came from an online Etymology Dictionary, not a real dictionary. LINK

Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place"​

We don't speak Old Saxon, Dutch, Old Norse, or German. While an English word may have originated in those languages, it doesn't mean the same thing as in those languages.

Follow this LINK to the Cambridge Dictionary of ENGLISH... and show me where it says that hell literally means a "concealed place."

Don't get confused between the Definition of a word and its Etymology (LINK).


How can you be yoked with him if you use wrong words?

Blessings,
Rhema

I would offer .

Context and examples can help. Both metaphors are used in the parallel parables. Belly of Whale. . Heart of the Earth . . .dark breathable places.

A dark place to cry out from and are strengthened to finish the good work of the Holy Father.

God does not commune with the dead (necromancy) Jonah the racist desired to die. Jesus did the will of the Father with delight.

 

[B-A-C]

God does not commune with the dead

Matt 22:32; 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Luke 20:35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
Luke 20:36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:37 "But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB.
Luke 20:38 "Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."

Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Mark 12:26 "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob'?
Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

Question: Are Isaac, Abraham and Jacob dead?

Luke 9:28 Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
Luke 9:29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming.
Luke 9:30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,
Luke 9:31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.
Luke 9:32 Now Peter and his companions had been overcome with sleep; but when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men standing with Him.

Question: Are Moses and Elijah dead?

Matt 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
Matt 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Matt 17:4 Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
Matt 17:5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"
Matt 17:6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified.

 

[B-A-C]

I suppose more to the point, do people "stay" dead forever?

John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
1Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

What does "fallen asleep" mean in this passage? What does "dead in Christ" mean in this passage?

Question: Do you believe the unsaved will be resurrected?

 

[Twistie]

I thought the same way that you're talking here when my mom passed away. When my brother and sister demanded to be paid for taking care of my mom while she was dying. I thought, what the heck? Isn't this something that you would do normally without expecting to get paid for?

Ya it's sad when my aunt had her brain clot explode her children didn't want nothing to do with taking care of her was only concerned with getting the cash..now she is gone n they are lost so to say very sad

Σ⁠(⁠ಠ⁠_⁠ಠ⁠)

 

[Rhema]

I think you're a little bit confused between those who are living and those who are dead.

Not really Bill. Dead people are Dead, period. They aren't living zombies somewhere. There is a Resurrection unto judgment. But until then, they don't exist in the here and NOW. And they don't exist anywhere now. You show me one verse that states a dead person is in heaven NOW.

If I'm confused, all you have is that single verse on judgment?

But look at the teaching -

And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken by God, saying to you: I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.​

(Matthew 22:31-32 DRB)

Are you trying to say that there is no resurrection of the dead because they are not dead but living elsewhere?

That wasn't Jesus' point. As a matter of fact it was the opposite. "He is not the God of the dead" means that there are no dead people somewhere whom God is God over. He is NOT the God of dead people, because the dead no longer exist. YET, since God is the God of the living, this means that the dead (who are dead-dead) shall be brought back alive at the Resurrection.

Martha saith to him: I know that he shall rise again, in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live:​

(John 11:24-25 DRB)

The "he SHALL live," means he is not living anywhere now. The verb is in the future tense.

I know this violates your tradition, but the text is clear. The dead know nothing. (I even used your own Catholic translation.)

Kindly,
Rhema

The true dead are those who have died the second death.

The term "second death" exists only in the book of Revelation which is not in our canon, having been rejected by the APOSTLE Thomas.

 

[Rhema]

When my brother and sister demanded to be paid for taking care of my mom while she was dying. I thought, what the heck? Isn't this something that you would do normally without expecting to get paid for?

So... where were you?

(And who paid for the Depends.)

I'm not being callous, since I went through the same thing. But the bills have to be paid somehow.

Sorry for your loss,
Rhema