Rapture event - Poll

Still Learning · Saturday at 12:09 PM

B-A-C said:
Can you show me the scripture in the Bible that says "grace alone"?

Everywhere the Scriptures say we aren't saved by works it's the Scriptures saying we're saved by grace alone. Do you even have a clue what grace means?

Justice is getting what we deserve. Mercy is not getting what we deserve. And grace is getting a free gift that we don't deserve... in this case the free gift is our salvation.

Still Learning · Saturday at 12:30 PM

Dave M said:
do not stop there, because with grace and faith comes proof and evidence, in the way one conducts him self !!

Seriously? I was dealing with how to get SAVED. I wasn't dealing with things that come AFTER we get saved which would only be EVIDENCE of a saving faith. We get saved by God's grace which we obtain through faith in Christ, NOT BY WORKS WE DO. THEN AFTER WE GET SAVED, we do the good works God saved us to do.

God’s grace has saved you because of your faith in Christ. Your salvation doesn’t come from anything you do. It is God’s gift. It is not based on anything you have done. No one can brag about earning it. We are God’s creation. He created us to belong to Christ Jesus. NOW we can do good works. Long ago God prepared these works for us to do. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Justice is getting what we deserve. Mercy is not getting what we deserve. And grace is getting a free gift that we don't deserve... in this case the free gift is our salvation.

joestue · Saturday at 1:46 PM

Christians want the wicked to repent. Not be destroyed.

Still Learning · Saturday at 1:49 PM

joestue said:
Christians want the wicked to repent. Not be destroyed.

We want evil destroyed. And everyone has had the opportunity to repent.

And you're still trying to say that being a Christian (being saved) is contingent on being a good enough person, rather than being a Christian is contingent on God's grace which is obtained through faith in Jesus to have done what is required to save us, which is that we trust in Him and His sacrificial death.

Still Learning · Saturday at 3:29 PM

Rhema said:
The word Saved, does not mean removed

I didn't say the unbelieving Jews would be removed. They go into the Trib, and get saved during that time. During the Trib, some from every tribe become believers in Jesus and end up saved. They will finally leave the Old Covenant and be grafted into the New Covenant where they belong.

Most Jews (the branches of the cultivated Olive Tree) were cut off from entering into the New Covenant (the Tree representing Christ's New Covenant) because they didn't believe in Jesus. So God allowed the Gentiles (the branches of the Wild Olive Tree) who believed to be grafted into Christ's New Covenant. During the Trib, many Jews will become believers and will be grafted into the New Covenant.

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and YOU stand BY FAITH. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Romans 11:17-26)

When the full number of Gentiles has come into Christ's New Covenant, we get removed from the planet because we aren't to be subjected to God's wrath. But the unbelieving Jews will go into the Trib and be subjected to God's wrath, but some from each tribe will become believers, and so "all" Israel will be represented in God's Kingdom. And since God cannot pour out His wrath on the righteous because that would be unjust, Christ's Church/Body/Bride that Jesus made righteous must leave the planet before EVERYONE on the planet suffers God's wrath which begins with the Seal Judgments.

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

For I’ll proclaim the name of our Lord. Ascribe greatness to our God! Flawless is the work of the Rock, because all his ways are just. A faithful God—never unjust— righteous and upright is he. (Deuteronomy 32:3-4)

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and EVERYONE else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?” (Revelation 6:15-17)

If God were to pour out His wrath onto Christ's righteous Church/Body/Bride while pouring out His wrath onto EVERYONE else on the planet because they failed to be made righteous through their unbelief, that would be unjust. But you go right ahead and believe God is unjust by thinking the righteous will suffer His wrath and punishment if you choose to believe that. But, the God you believe in isn't the God of the Bible. Your God is a false god who cannot and will not save you. Your God would be of Satan. I advise that you repent and stop pushing false doctrines which prove you're an unbeliever who has a false god that'll guarantee your condemnation.

Still Learning · Saturday at 3:41 PM

Rhema said:
Still Learning said:

Christians had all of their sins removed and paid for by Jesus on the cross.

Click to expand...

And yet that teaching cannot be found in the very words of Jesus Himself.

But God's Word says it very plainly

“HE HIMSELF BORE OUR SINS” IN HIS BODY on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” (1 Peter 2:24)

We Christians have had our sins removed from us and have had them placed on Jesus to pay for them on the cross with the shedding of His blood. If YOUR sins weren't removed and paid for at the cross, then YOU are not a Christian.

B-A-C · Saturday at 3:47 PM

Still Learning said:
“HE HIMSELF BORE OUR SINS” IN HIS BODY on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” (1 Peter 2:24)

All of our sins up to that point, yes.
Christians can still sin.

Matt 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We need to ask for forgiveness for sins since then.

It is possible to come up short of grace.

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

It's possible to have your name removed from the book of life.

Exod 32:32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Deut 29:20 "The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.
Psa 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It's possible to be removed out of the kingdom.

Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

Branches can be broken off.

Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

joestue · Saturday at 5:06 PM

Still Learning said:
We want evil destroyed. And everyone has had the opportunity to repent.

And you're still trying to say that being a Christian (being saved) is contingent on being a good enough person, rather than being a Christian is contingent on God's grace which is obtained through faith in Jesus to have done what is required to save us, which is that we trust in Him and His sacrificial death.

no, i did not say that.

read the parable of the man who owes a million dollars but chokes out his servant for a days wages.

i'm not going to argue about osas or losing salvation or never being saved in the first place.

the point is clear, the man who's sins are forgiven but refuses to forgive others will go to hell.

Still Learning · Saturday at 5:27 PM

B-A-C said:
All of our sins up to that point, yes.

You misinterpret all of the verses you've cited. ALL of our sins, past, present, and future were paid for on the cross. ALL of the sins of a Christian are in the PAST and gone because Jesus took ALL of them.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Romans 3:20-26)

See, our sins are PAST and are gone. Jesus took them ALL on Himself and paid the penalty for them. If even just one sin was unpaid for, then Jesus would still be in the grave, and we would have no Savior. But Jesus DID pay for them ALL and NOW we have the righteousness of God.

“HE HIMSELF BORE OUR SINS” IN HIS BODY on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” (1 Peter 2:24)

By his one sacrifice he has FOREVER SET FREE FROM SIN the people he brings to God. (Hebrews 10:14)

If you are still sinning, then YOU haven't been set free from sin. And Scripture says you arfe of the devil.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

Born again of God Christians don't sin and CANNOT SIN because we are born again of God and His Holy Spirit.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9 )

You need to believe and be born again of God if YOU want to be saved.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, NO ONE can see the kingdom of God UNLESS they are born again.” (John 3:3)

You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You MUST be born again.’ (John 3:7)

Don't ignore this. You need to accept this correcting if you want to be saved.

Still Learning · Saturday at 6:22 PM

joestue said:
read the parable of the man who owes a million dollars but chokes out his servant for a days wages.

I've shown you from the Scriptures that our salvation isn't contingent on us being worthy of salvation through good deeds such as forgiving others would be. Therefore, the "forgiving" requirement isn't a salvation requirement. It is a fellowship requirement. The requirement God puts on us for salvation is that we BELIEVE IN JESUS.

They asked, “What must we do in order to accomplish what God requires?” Jesus replied, “This is what God requires, that you BELIEVE in him whom God sent.” (John 6:28-29)

Therefore, we forgive others not so that we can maintain our SALVATION/UNION with the Lord, but so that we can maintain our FELLOWSHIP/COMMUNION with the Lord

God gave us the full rights of adoption into His family when we believed. We are now His heirs, and nothing can ever change that.

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive ADOPTION TO SONSHIP. Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also AN HEIR. (Galatians 4:4-7)

Now, the Holy Spirit was sealed into the heart of all Christians as a deposit that GUARANTEES we will receive our inheritance, which is eternal life.

that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:15-16)

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. WHEN YOU BELIEVED, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. (Matthew 19:29)

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, GUARANTEEING what is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22)

Your misguided salvation through merit false doctrines have you remaining outside of God's family. You cannot inherit eternal life unless you're born again of God.

joestue · Saturday at 9:03 PM

Still Learning said:
I've shown you from the Scriptures that our salvation isn't contingent on us being worthy of salvation through good deeds such as forgiving others would be. Therefore, the "forgiving" requirement isn't a salvation requirement. It is a fellowship requirement.

My mom surprised me when she agreed with me that hell is not the same as outer darkness. She immediately replied "yes outer darkness is the place for disenfranchised christians"

You cant go to heaven with a God you dont want to fellowship with....

Bill · Saturday at 9:39 PM

KingJ said:
These poll results will be interesting, I would think the vast majority of Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture event.

I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture for these three reasons.

1. The Holy Spirit, referred to as the Restrainer, will leave.

When Jesus left, He left us with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is part and parcel of Christianity as we know it. Without Him we cannot have faith in Jesus being Lord. If He leaves us, it will be like God leaving and forsaking us. The devil can also not have his way if the Holy Spirit and or Holy Spirit filled Christians are still here.

2 Thess 2:6-7 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

2. The tribulation period is a new dispensation

The criteria to come to God has changed. In this period, we need to mindful of rejecting the mark of the beast and if necessary, dying as a martyr. We can shout from the rooftops that we believe Jesus is Lord, if we have the mark of the beast, it matters naught! We need to meditate on this fact and grasp that so many scriptures become completely and utterly irrelevant.

Rev 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

3. God's plagues are not for Christians.

The tribulation period is an extremely terrible period as it is a final stage of filtering of the righteous from the wicked. Many Christians and good people are on the fence. The anti-christ will take you off it when he forces his mark. God will take you off it at the halfway mark when His plagues hit the earth.

Christians and good people currently receive some persecution in first world countries and a lot of persecution in certain Muslim and communist countries. We have always received persecution from evil people. As we draw closer to the tribulation period, we can expect this persecution to increase. But there is no reason for God to demand more testing from all Christians who have already proven themselves. Christians as described here - So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! IE There is absolutely no reason to put true Christians through the next round of filtering.

When God's plagues hit the inhabitants of the earth, we see that scripture says, 'they repented not'. Does this sound like a Christian? A Christian 'repented not' when plague after plague hits?

Rev 9:20-21 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Conclusion:

The rapture will be pre-tribulation. All will experience increased persecution as we get closer to the tribulation. Please ensure that you are in fact a Christian and ready for the rapture! Please make 100% certain that you have witnessed and taught Jesus to all those you know!! The tribulation period is going to be the worst time in all of human history!!, according to Jesus in Matt 24.

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt 24:43-44 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

I have a question in reguards to the theory of the rapture. If the pre-tribulation rapture does exist, why then does God have the revelations written down for everyone that doesn't read the scripture?

Why would God bother to write it down, instructions for the Christians not to receive the mark of the beast?

Does the mark of the beast affect the pagans who don't read the scripture in the first place?

Obviously not everyone reads the scripture, are everyone subject to the scripture then?

If children do not know the laws are they accountable to them?

Before you answer that question, if you feel that all of mankind are accountable to the laws of God. Then we have to wonder why Jesus stated that those of Sodom and Gomorrah would be judge less harshly to those of this day and age.

Remember scripture says that we in our innate selves know what right and wrong are.

Garee · 2025-01-26T03:12:34-0500

joestue said:
no, i did not say that.

read the parable of the man who owes a million dollars but chokes out his servant for a days wages.

i'm not going to argue about osas or losing salvation or never being saved in the first place.

the point is clear, the man who's sins are forgiven but refuses to forgive others will go to hell.

Hi .

I would offer keep in mind. The spiritual, gospel understanding hidden from the un-redeemed must be searched out or rightly divided.

We cannot forgive our own sin. We can preach the gospel he teaches and forgives

1 Corinthians 3:7-8So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour

Christ working in us. His ability to faithfully, powerfully forgive sin.

Forgiveness is dependent on his living word. "Let there be forgiveness" and "it was good" By believing (faithfully trusting) it would be. . . forgiveness is made.

A faithful powerful example given to those with no faithful power to see the unseen eternal things. Not seven times a day but all day and night.

The Apostles knew they were powerless they had no faith which is needed to please Christ who reveals that which is invisible.

In effect saying. Abba Father, Pour out your Holy Spirit on dying flesh in jeopardy of our own spirit life . You alone have the faithful power to forgive , Not the Pope dying mankind

Luke 17:1-5 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!;It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.. . . .(Power that enables forgiveness)

KingJ · 2025-01-26T04:29:30-0500

Bill said:
I have a question in reguards to the theory of the rapture. If the pre-tribulation rapture does exist, why then does God have the revelations written down for everyone that doesn't read the scripture?

I wish more Christians would rationalize scripture like this.

It is our job to warn all. Just as Moses warned the Egyptians. We need to know what God is planning so as to teach the same truth and not confuse the unsaved.

Bill said:
Why would God bother to write it down, instructions for the Christians not to receive the mark of the beast?

There will be tribulation saints and the two prophets that return to the Jews who will preach from scripture, quoting Rev 14:9-11.

Bill said:
Does the mark of the beast affect the pagans who don't read the scripture in the first place?

Yes. This is why I believe the mark of the beast will not be something practical and useful.

Example, a chip that bypasses credit cards and cash = Practical and useful.

The mark of the beast will be directly related to you bowing down to the antichrist and supporting what your conscience knows to be evil. So perhaps, you will only be able to receive an implanted chip if on it you state that your religion is 'satanism'.

Everyone knows what is good and evil according to scripture in Gen 3:22. Christians that say only 'we' know what is good and evil, or only God knows are 100% incorrect. We all know and have the ability to grasp evil. What is evil is not a mystery to anyone as God has given us eyes, ears and working brains.

Gen 3:22 Since the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever.

IE People who take the mark of the beast will ''know'' that they are submitting and giving in to something evil.

Bill said:
Obviously not everyone reads the scripture, are everyone subject to the scripture then?

From day one everyone has been subject to their will and conscience. We see this with Cain. Before any scriptures penned. He murders his brother. God approaches him looking for words and a heart of repentance. Cain does not and God excommunicates him. Nothing has changed to today. Except that today after the cross, if you repent you find Jesus James 4:8, Psalm 51:17, 1 Cor 12:3 and the Holy Spirit makes scripture real to you John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.

Scripture equips the saints to do God's work.

Bill said:
If children do not know the laws are they accountable to them?

Children are exempt. All under twenty are not yet accountable for their sins (0-19). Children and animals have always suffered the fate of their parents. Good parents = spared. Evil parents = drowned. But as with animals, all go to heaven.

God is impartial Acts 10:34 and in Num 14: 29 and Matt 19:14 we see His thoughts on children.

Numb 14:29 In this wilderness your bodies will fall every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me''

Matt 19:14 Jesus said, “Leave the little children alone, and don't try to keep them from coming to me, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

Now most pre-tribulationists believe that God will take children with and bring them back in the millennium, where the devil will be released toward the end to test mankind Rev 20:7. IE We can expect all babies and children to be adults at that point in time.

Bill said:
Before you answer that question, if you feel that all of mankind are accountable to the laws of God. Then we have to wonder why Jesus stated that those of Sodom and Gomorrah would be judge less harshly to those of this day and age.

Matt 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

God is a righteous judge and will punish all unrepentant sinners according to what they have done Rom 2:6 God will repay each person according to what they have done.

So, in order to understand Matt 10:15, we need to grasp the difference in sin between those in verse 14 and those in verse 15.

In verse 14 we read of people rejecting saints coming to teach about Jesus. 1. Rejecting good people, warning against the repercussions of continuing in mortal sin. 2. Rejecting knowledge of God's mercy and His sacrifice for them.

Now, Sodom received 1 and not 2. If mortal sin were 10/10 evil, choosing to stay in mortal sin and at the same time pulling the middle finger to a message of your Creator laying His life down for you, would be 15/10.

Bill said:
Remember scripture says that we in our innate selves know what right and wrong are.

Agreed.

KingJ · 2025-01-26T04:34:36-0500

B-A-C said:
All of our sins up to that point, yes.
Christians can still sin.

Matt 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We need to ask for forgiveness for sins since then.

It is possible to come up short of grace.

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

It's possible to have your name removed from the book of life.

Exod 32:32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Deut 29:20 "The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.
Psa 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It's possible to be removed out of the kingdom.

Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

Branches can be broken off.

Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

Haha, this is becoming an OSAS discussion

.

BAC, please can I ask that you meditate on Heb 10:14.

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

We who still make mistakes of sin as Paul explains even he does in Rom 7:15 , are ''made'' perfect to God. The only thing to consider on sin is mortal verse venial sin. Paul never continued in the mortal sin of murder. Rom 7:15 talks to battling with venial sins. It should be impossible for a Christian to commit a mortal sin. You cannot love God at the level required for salvation if you hate righteousness at the level required for a mortal sin.

If not sinning was criteria to staying saved, we are all en route to hell. Try understand that God looks deeper. Please properly read this OP here - So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! and here - What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

Curtis · 2025-01-26T10:32:18-0500

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it. (ESV)

Bill · 2025-01-26T13:26:37-0500

Curtis said:
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it. (ESV)

Thank you for the scripture Curtis, but will you share your thoughts please

th1bill · 2025-01-26T13:35:11-0500

KingJ said:
Haha, this is becoming an OSAS discussion .

BAC, please can I ask that you meditate on Heb 10:14.

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

We who still make mistakes of sin as Paul explains even he does in Rom 7:15 , are ''made'' perfect to God. The only thing to consider on sin is mortal verse venial sin. Paul never continued in the mortal sin of murder. Rom 7:15 talks to battling with venial sins. It should be impossible for a Christian to commit a mortal sin. You cannot love God at the level required for salvation if you hate righteousness at the level required for a mortal sin.

If not sinning was criteria to staying saved, we are all en route to hell. Try understand that God looks deeper. Please properly read this OP here - So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! and here - What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

I am sorry for being so dumb. Please, explain how and where you see venial sin in this or/and any other scripture.
And may Yehovah God bless.

Bill · 2025-01-26T13:38:14-0500

KingJ said:
I wish more Christians would rationalize scripture like this.

It is our job to warn all. Just as Moses warned the Egyptians. We need to know what God is planning so as to teach the same truth and not confuse the unsaved.

There will be tribulation saints and the two prophets that return to the Jews who will preach from scripture, quoting Rev 14:9-11.

Yes. This is why I believe the mark of the beast will not be something practical and useful.

Example, a chip that bypasses credit cards and cash = Practical and useful.

The mark of the beast will be directly related to you bowing down to the antichrist and supporting what your conscience knows to be evil. So perhaps, you will only be able to receive an implanted chip if on it you state that your religion is 'satanism'.

Everyone knows what is good and evil according to scripture in Gen 3:22. Christians that say only 'we' know what is good and evil, or only God knows are 100% incorrect. We all know and have the ability to grasp evil. What is evil is not a mystery to anyone as God has given us eyes, ears and working brains.

Gen 3:22 Since the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever.

IE People who take the mark of the beast will ''know'' that they are submitting and giving in to something evil.

From day one everyone has been subject to their will and conscience. We see this with Cain. Before any scriptures penned. He murders his brother. God approaches him looking for words and a heart of repentance. Cain does not and God excommunicates him. Nothing has changed to today. Except that today after the cross, if you repent you find Jesus James 4:8, Psalm 51:17, 1 Cor 12:3 and the Holy Spirit makes scripture real to you John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.

Scripture equips the saints to do God's work.

Children are exempt. All under twenty are not yet accountable for their sins (0-19). Children and animals have always suffered the fate of their parents. Good parents = spared. Evil parents = drowned. But as with animals, all go to heaven.

God is impartial Acts 10:34 and in Num 14: 29 and Matt 19:14 we see His thoughts on children.

Numb 14:29 In this wilderness your bodies will fall every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me''

Matt 19:14 Jesus said, “Leave the little children alone, and don't try to keep them from coming to me, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

Now most pre-tribulationists believe that God will take children with and bring them back in the millennium, where the devil will be released toward the end to test mankind Rev 20:7. IE We can expect all babies and children to be adults at that point in time.

Matt 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

God is a righteous judge and will punish all unrepentant sinners according to what they have done Rom 2:6 God will repay each person according to what they have done.

So, in order to understand Matt 10:15, we need to grasp the difference in sin between those in verse 14 and those in verse 15.

In verse 14 we read of people rejecting saints coming to teach about Jesus. 1. Rejecting good people, warning against the repercussions of continuing in mortal sin. 2. Rejecting knowledge of God's mercy and His sacrifice for them.

Now, Sodom received 1 and not 2. If mortal sin were 10/10 evil, choosing to stay in mortal sin and at the same time pulling the middle finger to a message of your Creator laying His life down for you, would be 15/10.

Agreed.

Thank you for yjour reply.

My understanding of the pretribs is that all born agains are vacating the planet. So where will the bible based saints come from.

We know it is written God could make prophets from the rocks, but as we see, God does not do that, never has.

So why bother warning people who will never read it.

Personally, i believe all of Revelations was written for the Christians

Curtis · 2025-01-26T17:10:47-0500

Bill said:
Thank you for the scripture Curtis, but will you share your thoughts please

The Lord God himself is the only one who can sanctify and make us Holy. God is the only one who can keep us from falling.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

He does this by chastising and disciplining us when we go astray so we are partakers of His Holiness.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

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