★ Christians AREN'T perfect!

[Christ4Ever]

@amadeus2
So, by this better hope, Jesus, are we made perfect?
So, by this one offering, Jesus, have we been made perfect?
So, by not having Jesus, were they prevented from being perfect?

 

[amadeus2]

@amadeus2
So, by this better hope, Jesus, are we made perfect?
So, by this one offering, Jesus, have we been made perfect?
So, by not having Jesus, were they prevented from being perfect?

We have been given the means to get there. Everyone has, but not everyone wants to receive all that they may. They unfortunately seem to be deciding that no further growth is necessary or even possible. Some people in a given moment considering what they have been given and what they have done with what they have been given are perfect. This is like Job being perfect in chapter one, verse one. He was directed perfectly toward God with what he had. He went through hell on earth in order to be increased by God. Job did that before Jesus made so much available to "whosoever will". We have been given more and we had better what?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

In these United States today we as a group of people have been given more than probably any other people in the history of man and yet what are we doing as a people with what we have? The old ugly head of selfishness continues to become even more prominent than ever:

"But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee." Matt 11:24

Jesus was speaking of Capernaum, but would it not also apply to these United States and most of its people?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Whosoever will come to God better.....

be a servant
Minister to others
respond as needed
deny himself
the list goes on

as the Word says and you have quoted..."...much will be required".

So lacking or having any of these. Are we yet perfected through Jesus?

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As far as the US is concerned. Though a Citizen of the Kingdom of God, it still does not stop me from praying and hoping that it may yet turn back; this Nation I live in.

 

[amadeus2]

Whosoever will come to God better.....

be a servant
Minister to others
respond as needed
deny himself
the list goes on

as the Word says and you have quoted..."...much will be required".

So lacking or having any of these. Are we yet perfected through Jesus?

God does know, doesn't He?

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As far as the US is concerned. Though a Citizen of the Kingdom of God, it still does not stop me from praying and hoping that it may yet turn back; this Nation I live in.

Amen!

 

[RJ]

My previous statements are based on, what I consider, facts. As Paul tells us there is a struggle between the flesh and the spirit and, this is what I have been referring to, in other words...the spirit is willing but the flesh is week. As I also just mentioned in a new post, we are not yet perfect as in 1 COR 13.

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Hebrews 7:19

The law was perfect, righteous and holy but man was not. The law always culminated at the "Day of Atonement", the covering over of sins but had to be repeated over and over, every year. Then, entered Jesus and, he died once for the remission of sins and then sat down, to never be repeated again...once for all. In you Hebrews verse, Jesus brings us a better "Hope"....doesn't say perfect. Nigh is "near".....at time to come...Again, as in our coming perfection in 1 Corinthians 13:10 ,10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
With Christ in us, God calls us Holy, Righteous and Blameless...not us but the one in us...he gets all the glory!

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:14

Yes, by one offering, the final offering, the "finality of the cross", God has made us perfect in his eyes but, we ourselves are not perfect, far from it but, in a state of sanctification. Sanctification is the act or process of being made holy....complete perfection and capable of finally being totally and completely in the presence of God.

God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us. Hebrews 11:40

Yes,God has provided something better, a perfect plan.....As Jesus said, "apart from me, you can do nothing". You can not become totally sanctified, perfect, without Jesus in you. And, with Jesus in you, when you die, you will be made perfect.
Romans 4:24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

 

[Christ4Ever]

but when the perfect comes

So what is that "when the perfect comes"? Is it when we know God fully? As mentioned in v 12

 

[Christ4Ever]

Yes, by one offering, the final offering, the "finality of the cross", God has made us perfect in his eyes but, we ourselves are not perfect, far from it but, in a state of sanctification. Sanctification is the act or process of being made holy....complete perfection and capable of finally being totally and completely in the presence of God.

Well said brother.

 

[RJ]

So what is that "when the perfect comes"? Is it when we know God fully? As mentioned in v 12

Oh, absolutely it is when we know God fully.
Right know, you and I, can not come into the complete fullness of God, i.e.,in the mean time, that is why the intermediary, Jesus Christ is in us...he can and is continually washing us with his blood and making us right with God, in our temporary frail state.

We can say this because of the "Face to Face" comment in 1 COR 13: 12....then we will see him face to face. Remember, not only for us but, this verses was also first to the Jews of that day and how they, must have shuttered and quaked, for to look upon God for them was to die.
See Exodus 33

• Exodus 33:18-20
  18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
  19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
• Exodus 33: 21-23 21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen

God is a man of his word, he couldn't afford for Moses to die on the spot....too much work lay ahead! Also, the Jews new this passage very well and were afraid ever seeing God face to face. But in first 1 COR 13, when everything passes away our perfection comes and we gaze upon God face to face....and in our resurrected body! I see the "perfect comes" in two ways, if we are lucky enough to be caught up in the Rapture when we are changed in the "Blink of an eye" or we die our physical death.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Jesus said nobody is good except God, That seems to be what RJ is saying also, to me anyways.

Exactly... Jesus also knew who is perfect and Good; none but God. Yes, we also know who is perfect and He is in me (us), I follow His lead, and that action is perfect.
Walking in the Spirit, in the fullness of God; we are made perfect in Him, with Him, by Him, for Him. When we deny self, forsake All and follow Him. When we become Christ like; caring nothing for our own life.

I still disagree;
God is able, I will not put limitations on Him. God is perfect and He is in me, leading me in Spirit and in Truth. Until self quits trying to do what only God can do, then you will never be perfect. Full submission, whole hearted, trusting and depending on God; not self.
So as you have believed, so be it unto you.
All praise glory and honor be unto God. Amen

 

[RJ]

Until self quits trying to do what only God can do, then you will never be perfect. Full submission, whole hearted, trusting and depending on God; not self.

I think we agree , more than not! Yes, I do say that God in you is perfect but, what you say above, I don't see you being to be able to do that 24/7, which would be the requirement for total perfection of self! Thank God for Romans 8:1! In the meantime , because of him, we are justified, Amen!

 

[rag4aCrown]

My previous statements are based on, what I consider, facts. As Paul tells us there is a struggle between the flesh and the spirit and, this is what I have been referring to, in other words...the spirit is willing but the flesh is week. As I also just mentioned in a new post, we are not yet perfect as in 1 COR 13.


The law was perfect, righteous and holy but man was not. The law always culminated at the "Day of Atonement", the covering over of sins but had to be repeated over and over, every year. Then, entered Jesus and, he died once for the remission of sins and then sat down, to never be repeated again...once for all. In you Hebrews verse, Jesus brings us a better "Hope"....doesn't say perfect. Nigh is "near".....at time to come...Again, as in our coming perfection in 1 Corinthians 13:10 ,10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
With Christ in us, God calls us Holy, Righteous and Blameless...not us but the one in us...he gets all the glory!

Yes, by one offering, the final offering, the "finality of the cross", God has made us perfect in his eyes but, we ourselves are not perfect, far from it but, in a state of sanctification. Sanctification is the act or process of being made holy....complete perfection and capable of finally being totally and completely in the presence of God.

Yes,God has provided something better, a perfect plan.....As Jesus said, "apart from me, you can do nothing". You can not become totally sanctified, perfect, without Jesus in you. And, with Jesus in you, when you die, you will be made perfect.
Romans 4:24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Praise God, I am not living to die; I shall LIVE, because HE is ALIVE in me, right now, and I am in HIM, and we go unto the Father. Amen.
When we start living in Him, with Him, by Him, for Him; He will be ALIVE in the vessel.
Put self down, you are robbing self from the fullness of God. Amen

 

[rag4aCrown]

I think we agree , more than not! Yes, I do say that God in you is perfect but, what you say above, I don't see you being to be able to do that 24/7, which would be the requirement for total perfection of self! Thank God for Romans 8:1! In the meantime , because of him, we are justified, Amen!

Yes brother, we are saying the same thing. Only when one forsakes all; lay our precious little self on the ground, our job, loved ones, land, home on earth... we could go on, lay it all down and pick up the cross of our testimony and follow HIM.

How much is self willing to give up to walk in the fullness of the SPIRIT?
We can not serve both; God and mammon. Pick one, just ONE; choose the right One, it is a straight road with a narrow gate and leads us to an eternal, everlasting life; the other, is a broad road with a wide gate and leads to greater destruction.

All praise glory and honor be unto God. Amen

 

[RJ]

Praise God, I am not living to die;

:laugh:, nor am I but I sure look forward to the day I see God Face to Face!

 

[rag4aCrown]

Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with Father. Even that He has been given power to forgive sin. He did not think more of Himself than He ought to think; He is not above God the Father, but had been made ONE with Him, in Him, by Him, for Him.
Of course the scoffers and debaters and lawyers (those that keep the law) had something to say about it. And they will again.
We should not think it is robbery to be One in Christ with God. He is the example God sent forth and has given to us the same power and authority as Christ the King, the Firstborn from the dead. Amen

Of course those who pat us on the back now, will be the first to lay accusations against us; they say they believe, but deny His power? Is that not denying the Holy Ghost?
Putting limitations on God is also denying the Holy Ghost. If I am willing, HE is able.
Everybody sits waiting on God, God is waiting on us; just ONE who believes. Amen.
So as each has believed so be it unto you. Amen

 

[rag4aCrown]

Be Christ like, be perfect, be Holy; there is no imperfection in Him. Be ONE with Him, in Him, by Him, for Him. Amen.

As Paul said; not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but by the renewing our mind by washing of water by the Word.

Allow God to cleanse the inner man of the heart, the mind and the mouth follows what the heart believes. Christ in us is the inner man; is people hearing Him when the mouth speaks?
What is consuming our heart? the world and it's bah humbug, or Christ in us? Amen

 

[amadeus2]

I think we agree , more than not! Yes, I do say that God in you is perfect but, what you say above, I don't see you being to be able to do that 24/7, which would be the requirement for total perfection of self! Thank God for Romans 8:1! In the meantime , because of him, we are justified, Amen!

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7 Just keep on asking until the 24/7 also comes to you. Will God refuse so along as we do not ask amiss?

 

[rag4aCrown]

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7 Just keep on asking until the 24/7 also comes to you. Will God refuse so along as we do not ask amiss?

Yes, for certain what one asks in faith, nothing wavering, and it shall be given you. I ask Him to purge me of everything that stood in His way, that God's will be done; and so He has began and is doing exactly what I asked. What? now will I cry over the blessings I am receiving?

Example, my only begotten is tucked away safe in jail reevaluating life, for he is faced with maybe losing his own. God answers prayers. I ask God to being my Son to his knees; and He did. I would never imagine it to be "death, by execution"; but it could very much be so. He is in the hands of God, praying for me, instead of cursing me; being even a light to me behind bar's now. God has his complete attention. God sent him layers, the head lawyer's name is Solomon. Well, Solomon enters his cell with 2 more lawyers and 2 private investigators, stating the calvery has arrived.
These simple signs God has shown my son, He is in control.

God has saved my son; my only begotten. Thank you Lord, for answered prayers.

God continues to purge me of anything that is a hindrance (in our way). For my heart is set on God and I pursue His Kingdom. I am confident in Him. God knows best how to accomplish His prophesies; I am just a willing vessel. Amen.

 

[RJ]

You still miss my main point but, of course , we all strive for perfection! A key here, is to know the truth and not to be held in any form of bondage when you you don't

 

[rag4aCrown]

You still miss my main point but, of course , we all strive for perfection! A key here, is to know the truth and not to be held in any form of bondage when you you don't

Yet the Word tells us to strive for nothing; let God be God and be in submission to God, willing to serve Him; praising Him at every turn of up or down for His name sake, for the Kingdom of God. Amen

 

[RJ]

Yet the Word tells us to strive for nothing; let God be God and be in submission to God, willing to serve Him; praising Him at every turn of up or down for His name sake, for the Kingdom of God. Amen

Yes , in complete agreement, you are exactly right , all this is possible but, back to the original thread, as a Christian, are you always perfect in every way?