70 Weeks of Daniel Prophecy - Already Fulfilled or Not?

[Jonathan_Gale]

this is an interesting point of view from someone.

" The Jewish leadership accused Stephen of saying that Christ would fulfill Daniel 9:27.

During his response Stephen never denied the accusation.

Act 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. Daniel's 70 weeks have been completed, based on a plain, literal, reading of God's Word. "

Actually I've changed my view, I think these 490 years emcompass the whole second temple period from its construction to its destruction. This period was referred to in the bible as "this age", and from AD 70 and there on, "the age to come".

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

thanks, Chris for this. so it is the thought of many it seems that these 6 things mentioned have not been fulfilled and will be at a later date, thus why they insert a huge gap in the timeline, even though the bible makes no mention of such a gap.

so when we look at the 6 things if we can canclude they have been fulfilled then we can conclude that Daniels's timeline is indeed finished,

Am I following correctly so far??

Again, the most important one is "to seal up the vision and prophecy". The other five could've been fulfilled in the first coming or they could only be fulfilled in the second coming. After all, Christ's crucifixion on the cross was the perfect ATONEMENT for sin which paid the PENALTY for all sins of mankind, but sin is still around and more egregious than ever before, so go figure what John the Baptist really meant when he declared, "behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!"

"To seal up the vision and prophecy", on the other hand ONLY applies to the first coming, since Jesus came to FULFILL the laws and the prophets, thereby the vision and prophecy were SEALED. If you insist that the last week is about "seven years of tribulation" at the end, the last time I checked, the last book about the end times is titled REVELATION, whatever was sealed will all be REVEALED, that's kind of the opposite of "sealing up", don't you think?

 

[complete]

Again, the most important one is "to seal up the vision and prophecy". The other five could've been fulfilled in the first coming or they could only be fulfilled in the second coming. After all, Christ's crucifixion on the cross was the perfect ATONEMENT for sin which paid the PENALTY for all sins of mankind, but sin is still around and more egregious than ever before, so go figure what John the Baptist really meant when he declared, "behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!"

"To seal up the vision and prophecy", on the other hand ONLY applies to the first coming, since Jesus came to FULFILL the laws and the prophets, thereby the vision and prophecy were SEALED. If you insist that the last week is about "seven years of tribulation" at the end, the last time I checked, the last book about the end times is titled REVELATION, whatever was sealed will all be REVEALED, that's kind of the opposite of "sealing up", don't you think?

'Seventy weeks are determined
upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
.. to finish the transgression,
.... and to make an end of sins,
...... and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
........ and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
.......... and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
............ and to anoint the most Holy.'
(Dan 9:24)

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

Re: 'The seal up the vision and prophecy.'
There is still the prophecy given by the risen Christ to John, via His angel, which has still to be fulfilled, covered by the book of Revelation.

Re: 'To make an end of sins'
This prophecy concerns Daniel's People (Israel), and Daniel's City (Jerusalem), and the nation of Israel has yet to come to repentance, and the forgiveness of their sins will follow (Jeremiah 31:34).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

There is still the prophecy given by the risen Christ to John, via His angel, which has still to be fulfilled, covered by the book of Revelation.

Tell me, is "reveal" the antithesis or synonym of "seal"? Are vision and prophecy "sealed" in Revelation? Or are they REVEALED in revelation? This is NOT the prophecy given by the risen Christ to John, but angel Gabriel to Daniel in Dan 12:4 - "As for you, Daniel, seal up this book till the end of time!"

 

[Bill]

One year ago the Holy Spirit told me " when all the Jews return to Israel". and I saw a 2 years. This is a rapture dream of what is to come. The Holy Spirit tells you what is to come.

John 16:13 - However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Jeremiah 23:3- But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Only 3 verses in the Bible allude to this time:

Ezekiel 30:3 – For the day is near, Even the day of the Lord is near;
It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.

Luke 21:24 - And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Roman 11:25 - For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

-6 days of creation
-6000 years from Adam
-Joshua circled Jericho 6 times and on the 7th they shouted and blew trumpets foretelling the end

2 Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the one day Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Times up, we are at the end.

Just remember:
Deuteronomy 29:29 - The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever

Hate to tell you this, God is already removing thosr He wants now.

You get to ride out the storm like i do

 

[Sue D.]

@Bill -- why do you say that God has already removing those He wants. Do you believe in a partial rapture? Apparently some of us are going through the 7yrs.of tribulation?

 

[Bill]

@Bill -- why do you say that God has already removing those He wants. Do you believe in a partial rapture? Apparently some of us are going through the 7yrs.of tribulation?

Mankind has a bad habit, of thinking that they can figure out God.

God often uses the natural way of things to do his will, it's only in specific moments where he intervenes with something spectacular such as the up and coming breaking of the Sixth Seal

I say that, because of what scripture States. That even though the first five seals are breaking or broken in Revelations, not once does anyone actually notice it.

But upon the breaking of The Sixth Seal, it is only then that mankind will actually take notice.

Just read the very last line of The Sixth Seal

 

[Bill]

@Bill -- why do you say that God has already removing those He wants. Do you believe in a partial rapture? Apparently some of us are going through the 7yrs.of tribulation?

I suppose to answer your question, if you consider a natural death or maybe death through all these crazy diseases as a form of rapture, then yes.

Remember, Elijah did come again in the form of John the Baptist. And no one noticed. Even though the scripture stated that he would come to make straight the path of the Lord, no one paid attention to him as Elijah.

Again God used natural means in bringing forth His prophet Elijah. He was born from a woman Elizabeth.

The two witnesses spoken about in Revelations are also born from women and they walk among us. They will not be recognized until they are revealed to the World by God.
Even those with really great discernment will not be able to recognize who they are because God has hidden them.
I will point out this though that God does reveal to people who he chooses them to be revealed to even though it's before their time. In the same way that Jesus was hidden and yet known to a few. We know this because Elizabeth knew that Jesus was the son of God. And there were others Simeon and Agnes. But only a few

 

[Sue D.]

Where do you find Elijah coming back as John the Baptist? Look at John 1:24-25. Elizabeth gave birth to John the Baptist.

Natural death is not a form of rapture. Because at the time of the rapture , the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who alive will follow. In the twinkling of an eye.

 

[Bill]

Where do you find Elijah coming back as John the Baptist? Look at John 1:24-25. Elizabeth gave birth to John the Baptist.

Natural death is not a form of rapture. Because at the time of the rapture , the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who alive will follow. In the twinkling of an eye.

At Jesus return , is the only true " taken up " i believe in .

As for the Question on Elijah, Jesus told his Apostles that Elijah did return , i.e. John the Baptist , and will do so again

 

[Sue D.]

I was just reading the rest of your post.

The gift of discernment is given by the Holy Spirit.

When the rapture Does take place. It will be the Church taken up all together. And the Church are all born- again believers where ever they are.

 

[Sue D.]

At Jesus return , is the only true " taken up " i believe in .

As for the Question on Elijah, Jesus told his Apostles that Elijah did return , i.e. John the Baptist , and will do so again

Jesus Christ will come in the air only to catch up His people. His second coming will be here on earth for His earthly reign for 1000 yrs. Satan will be bound all that time -- it will be peaceful for all those yrs.

 

[Sue D.]

Where did Jesus tell His disciples that?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Where do you find Elijah coming back as John the Baptist? Look at John 1:24-25. Elizabeth gave birth to John the Baptist.

Natural death is not a form of rapture. Because at the time of the rapture , the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who alive will follow. In the twinkling of an eye.

As a piece of unsolicited advice, get a clear, unequivocal definition of the term "rapture" whenever you wanna talk about it, 'cause it means completely different things to different people. If you ask around, the "experts" will only tell you that it's a "catching up", "removal" or "we're out of here" without any further explanation. Under this impression, most parishioners have pictured it as a "sudden disappearance" of all Christians around the world based on the Hollywood movie version. If you're among them, then sadly, the truth is, that's a false doctrine laden with a false hope, you should consider to purge it from your head.

Here's the tricky part. Indeed there's pre-tribulation event that is the REMOVAL of the church - indwelt by the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 5:9, 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Rev. 3:10), but that is talking about physical death, as Bill said. At the end all God's people will be moved out of the way for the Antichrist to rise, and all goes by God's schedule. There is no supernatural "sudden disappearance". The most likely scenario is that we'll all be gone in the four horsemen judgements, because in Seal 5, John saw God's people who are dead and crying out for justice.

 

[Sue D.]

The word "rapture" I'd not in scripture. When the "uptaking" of the Church takes ( all born-again believers / universal church compared to the local church) place. Those who have already died and are buried Will come up first and followed by those who are living at that time. It will be instantaneous. We will meet Jesus Christ in the air.

It happens to be based on God's Word and not Hollywood. Maybe you're thinking if the "Left Behind' series. It's Christian fiction. Some of it Is Bible - based and some not.

None of those seals have taken place yet.

It will be interesting to hear from Bill about his thoughts.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The word "rapture" I'd not in scripture. When the "uptaking" of the Church takes ( all born-again believers / universal church compared to the local church) place. Those who have already died and are buried Will come up first and followed by those who are living at that time. It will be instantaneous. We will meet Jesus Christ in the air.

It happens to be based on God's Word and not Hollywood. Maybe you're thinking if the "Left Behind' series. It's Christian fiction. Some of it Is Bible - based and some not.

None of those seals have taken place yet.

It will be interesting to hear from Bill about his thoughts.

Are you suggesting that all believers will ascend into heaven like Yeshua did? Supernaturally defying gravity? That's as fictitious as "Left Behind' series. Yeshua will drop in from the sky to meet US, not us rising into the sky to meet Him.

Acts 1:11 "Men of Galilee," they (two angels) said, "why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you to heaven, will so come IN LIKE MANNER as you saw Him go into heaven."

"Uptaking" is just another meaningless dictionary word like "catching up", "removal" or "we're out of here", you get nothing but confusion. So again, stop playing word games, get a clear, unequivocal definition of the term "rapture".

 

[Sue D.]

Not playing word games.
And it's not confusing. Maybe you simply don't want to accept the definition.


Let's look at a scripture passage.

1st Thessalonians 4: 15-18.

Believers who are still living will be caught up ( Greek word 'harpazo' ) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air". The dead in Christ will rise first. "

And then 1st Corinthians 15:51 "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye ,at the last trump, . For the trumpet will sound , and the dead will rise first ......."


Feel free to read the entire verses..

You now have a description of the rapture.

 

[Sue D.]

Supernaturally defying gravity--? yep.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Not playing word games.
And it's not confusing. Maybe you simply don't want to accept the definition.


Let's look at a scripture passage.

1st Thessalonians 4: 15-18.

Believers who are still living will be caught up ( Greek word 'harpazo' ) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air". The dead in Christ will rise first. "

And then 1st Corinthians 15:51 "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye ,at the last trump, . For the trumpet will sound , and the dead will rise first ......."


Feel free to read the entire verses..

You now have a description of the rapture.

But the problem is, the timing is "immediately after the tribulation", that's post-trib, not pre-trib. The universal Church is those who are dead in Christ and will rise first.

Also, "in the air" is subject to interpretation. Ephesians 2:1-2 warns that Satan is the "prince of the AIR" or "ruler of the AIR", does that mean Satan is floating in the air all around us and we're meeting him everyday? Of course not, this is just a biblical expression of this world. Apply this definition to 1 Thess. 4:17, it shows that we'll meet the Lord IN THIS WORLD, not high up in the sky.

What is confusing is that 1 Thess. 4:17 seems go against Acts 1:11. One says we're rising up, the other says Christ's going down. It takes wisdom to reconcile these two, not throwing these verses around.

Supernaturally defying gravity--? yep.

Just because Christ ascended into heaven doesn't mean we will as well. Ascension is as fictitious as "Left Behind".

 

[Bill]

I was just reading the rest of your post.

The gift of discernment is given by the Holy Spirit.

When the rapture Does take place. It will be the Church taken up all together. And the Church are all born- again believers where ever they are.

You have an error going on with your rapture theory . The church are all born again believers . No where in scripture does it say that. That is something someone came up with and has been passed along as truth