A Biblical verse on accepting our gay brethren: Acts 8:26-40

[Taylor Barrett]

Yes, love people. Love them with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul. Love them enough to tell them that the road they are on will lead them to destruction. Love them enough to call sin what it is... SIN. We are not judging when we call homosexuality a sin, anymore than we are judging when we call murder a sin. Sin is sin, period.


"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Romans 12:16-19

"Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.."

Titus 3:2-7

"To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.."

James 4:11-12

"Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Romans 12:16-19

"Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.."

Look, homosexuality is the same thing as fornication. Fornication= sex outside of heterosexual, monogamous marriage.
Homosexuality is the same as every other form of sin. No one will enter Heaven if they will not give up their sins.
Their will not be a single person in Heaven who refuses to stop murdering people.
And their will not be a single person in Heaven who refuses to stop being homosexual. Or being a Liar. etc.
No one here is saying that we should persecute gay people.
We are only saying that it would be wrong to allow someone to think that they can enter Heaven without giving up their homosexuality.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I think the church needs to drop its focus on social issues and just tell people about Jesus. When people invite Jesus into their hearts sincerely, He comes and brings needed attitude changes and spiritual growth,

SLE

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

I think the church needs to drop its focus on social issues and just tell people about Jesus. When people invite Jesus into their hearts sincerely, He comes and brings needed attitude changes and spiritual growth,

SLE

I think this is one of the wisest comments made on this thread so far. Bless you and Merry Christmas SpiritLedEd!!

 

[Chad]

Cicero's legalistic advice suggests that same-sex relationships were not only socially accepted among Roman society, but that they also potentially carried with them legal obligations and consequences, and hence were marriages as we understand the term.

Who cares? What GOD says is what goes, or else. You quote plenty of Scripture, but you're still adamant that you're not promoting this perspective of yours (like you've done similarly on other websites), but continue justifying homosexuals as "Christians" and "brethren" which is simply not true.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

As SLE said, show them Jesus. Don't excuse any sin, don't make up your own doctrine, don't justify anything outside Scripture. Just be a light / salt to everyone and show them love, not condemnation. Our job is to preach the Gospel Mark 16:15 and be a light to the world (Matthew 5:14-16)

 

[faithfulservant]

jeans full of the dried same... to ask the congregation if they loved me as Jesus asked us to love one another. And yes, I truly repent of my sins.

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Repentance is an ongoing attitude of humility before God. It's the ultimate "amen" to what He says because He knows best. As we grow in the knowledge of Him, we cast aside our own foolish and vain ideas and ways. This is life in Christ. This is salvation.

Being such, we don't define God, He defines Himself and has done so quite clearly through the scriptures.

We are warned not to mishandle the scriptures, as it requires training to handle them appropriately. Can there be someone who is a Bible scholar who is completely wrong? Certainly, but the vast majority of evangelical scholars agree to the veracity of the text and to the clear conclusions to be drawn therein: God does not condone homosexual activity whatsoever and clearly condemns such action as against His will in multiple places in the Old and New Testaments.

The theological gymnastics required to justify such activity are clearly exposed as lies to anyone who has spent any real time in God's Word.

Copying and pasting articles like you have here serve only to try and muddy clear waters, but God has a special plan for such activities.

God's plan is this: If anyone really seeks the truth in their heart, they will find it. You can't stop that from happening because God is sovereign and He makes the rules of our natural and spiritual realms.

So... If there is a newborn in Christ, or a pre-believer reading this, don't let man sway you. Seek God, seek truth, and God will lead you to it Himself. It's just that simple.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Who cares? What GOD says is what goes, or else. You quote plenty of Scripture, but you're still adamant that you're not promoting this perspective of yours (like you've done similarly on other websites), but continue justifying homosexuals as "Christians" and "brethren" which is simply not true.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

As SLE said, show them Jesus. Don't excuse any sin, don't make up your own doctrine, don't justify anything outside Scripture. Just be a light / salt to everyone and show them love, not condemnation. Our job is to preach the Gospel Mark 16:15 and be a light to the world (Matthew 5:14-16)

Hi Chad, and Merry Christmas! When I say 'gay brethren' I simply refer to our fellow human souls who we share this earth with, who happen to be gay. That said, the people who care are people who love Christ, the people who care many times also have a gay sister, brother, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, cousin, mom, dad, or friend. The people who care might just be people who are interested in history. It was not until 305 that the Church started persecuting gay people. Christianity had been around for over 3 centuries by that time. Soon it will be legal in all 50 states and we will have to deal with same-sex marriage whether we want to acknowledge it or not.

That said, I'm curious what you think of, and how you practice in your daily life the following teachings from the Bible:

Romans 14:1-4

“Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.”

Romans 15:7

“Therefore, accept each other just as Christ has accepted you. He did this to bring glory to God.”

Matthew 6:14-15

“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.”

James 2:1-4

“My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool, have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?”

Hebrews 13:2

“Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.”

Exodus 23:9

"You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt.

1 Samuel 16:7

“But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Luke 10:30-36

“Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. "And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. "Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. "On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.' "Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?"

Colossians 3:13

“Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.”

 

[B-A-C]

I'm not @Chad obviously. I really can't speak for him.

I wonder if you are familiar with something called Biblical context?

“Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.”

Eating vegetables only is not a sin, in fact eating meat sacrificed to idols isn't always a sin. God accepts you whether you eat meat or vegetables.

“Therefore, accept each other just as Christ has accepted you. He did this to bring glory to God.”

From what I have seen, you have been accepted here. You have posted your opinions about several scriptures. No one has stopped you.
But just because we accept someone, doesn't mean we have to accept their teachings or lifestyle. Eventually they need to repent or (in my case) leave my church.

“My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool, have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?”

Again, being black, white, brown, red or yellow doesn't make you a sinner. Being rich or poor doesn't make you a sinner. How you dress doesn't make you a sinner.
Choosing an immoral lifestyle does make you a sinner. Also, everyone who is saved was a sinner at some point, many of us came into a church at some point while
we were still sinners. We have people like this in my church even today. Some are seekers sitting on the fence, deciding if they want to be saved or not. Some are
still struggling with adultery, fornication, addictions, pornography, drugs and yes even homosexuality. However, while they are in the church we don't allow them to
practice sin there. What they do at home is between them and God. Even Jesus chased some people out of the church with scourges.

My answer above is the same for your next few scriptures. (Heb 13:2; Exod 23:9; 1 Sam 16:7; )
What do any of these verses have to do with willful sin?

“Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.”

Forgiveness is for those who repent.

Luke 17:4; "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."
However if he doesn't repent, we don't have to forgive him. It's the same with God.

Acts 3:19; "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

You may want to go back and read post #22 in this thread. It talks about the difference between accepting sinners, new Christians, and "so called brothers"
who continue in their sin.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Yes, I'm quite familiar with biblical context. I've been studying the Bible for many decades, starting when I was 13 first through the Lutheran Church, and then through the highest level of university religious scholars. The genuine, warm, loving, friendly Christian welcome commanded by Jesus to treat others with that I have received here has been almost overwhelming.. so thank you and God bless you.


On the matter of '7 times'... perhaps you are unaware of the following?

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but seventy times seven!”

It seems to me in the desire of some here to reject and make outcast any of our fellow brethren human souls, and notice that I do not put 'brethren' in quotations as if I'm being sarcastic, but instead believe that 'all' souls are our brethren, regardless of their sins... it seems to me that by doing so, all of the following teachings in the Bible are being mocked, or at least conveniently ignored.. please tell me how that isn't so:

Luke 9:49-50

“We saw one casting out devils in your name; and we forbade him, because he did not follow with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

Matthew 25:42-45

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me. Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs? He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.”

1 Corinthians 4:5

“Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.”

2 Timothy 2:24-26

“And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”

1 Corinthians 5:12

“For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?”

Matthew 7:1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.”

Luke 6:37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven..”

James 4:11

“Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.”

James 4:12

“There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?”

John 8:7

“And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Galatians 5:14

“For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Galatians 5:22-6:5

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.”

1 Peter 2:1-4

“So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious.”

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Aaron, you have some very good points about how the church treats homosexuals in comparison with how it treats other sinners. We could all do better at welcoming homosexuals to the faith. Most of us have no problem welcoming liars, drunkards, atheists, idolaters, and all other forms of sinners to the faith But when it comes to homosexuals, for some reason the church feels like we need them to change before they can become christian, when in reality its almost impossible for the sinner to stop sinning without the help of The Holy Spirit. And we all know you can only get The Holy Spirit after youve came to Christ. However, it all boils down to this= Homosexuality is a sin. It is fornication. A particularly perverse form of fornication, in fact. And there is no debating that fact.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Aaron, you have some very good points about how the church treats homosexuals in comparison with how it treats other sinners. We could all do better at welcoming homosexuals to the faith. Most of us have no problem welcoming liars, drunkards, atheists, idolaters, and all other forms of sinners to the faith But when it comes to homosexuals, for some reason the church feels like we need them to change before they can become christian, when in reality its almost impossible for the sinner to stop sinning without the help of The Holy Spirit. And we all know you can only get The Holy Spirit after youve came to Christ. However, it all boils down to this= Homosexuality is a sin. It is fornication. A particularly perverse form of fornication, in fact. And there is no debating that fact.

Hi Taylor, and thank you.

However, I'd like you to dwell upon the seeming hypocrisy of Christians who condemn and outcast gay people over loving or marrying each other for their ‘unrepented’ sin, and yet at the exact same time completely ignoring the unrepented sin of those who divorce and re-marry over and over again, while fully accepting them into their churches:

So many Christians try to rationalize this but it is clear that a true follower of Jesus can neither divorce someone nor marry someone who is divorced. There is an exception to the rule, however. If a spouse commits adultery, divorce is permissible. On the same token, the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer. Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

Matthew 5:31-32

"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.”

There are many lists of sins in the Bible, but there is no single list of all sins we are to avoid. In the beginning, Adam and Eve were given only one rule—not to eat from a particular tree (Genesis 2:16-17). It was a short list, but they failed to keep even that. The repeated lesson of history is that making a list of sin is insufficient to keep us from committing sin.

A quick look at Scripture affirms this fact. God gave the Law through Moses, including the Ten Commandments. Yet Israel had broken the first commandment before Moses even got off Mt. Sinai.

The same was true of the rest of the Law of Moses. Jewish religious leaders have found in the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) 613 laws to obey. While these laws defined what sin was, they could not guarantee avoidance of sin.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus took portions of the Law and showed there was more to them than simple obedience. Pleasing God means doing what is right with a pure heart. For example, regarding adultery, Jesus said, "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). The law said to avoid adultery, but Jesus taught the greater principle of purity of heart.

There are some lists of sins in the New Testament (e.g., Galatians 5:19-21), yet they do not claim to be comprehensive. From these lists, we can identify practices we must avoid, but we realize that our struggle against sin is greater than what any list can cover. Sin is "all wrongdoing" (1 John 5:17). Sins of omission are also wrong: "whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin" (James 4:17).

Unless the people who desire to outcast and reject gay people for their 'unrepentant' sin do the exact same thing to all the divorcees getting married over and over again within the churches, then their hypocrisy is exposed for all to see.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Aaron, again, you have some good points. However, two wrongs do not make a right. The solution is not compromising the word of God and telling people that homosexuality is ok, the solution is being consistent in regards ALL sin. Homosexuality is a sin. And no homosexuals will make it to heaven.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Aaron, again, you have some good points. However, two wrongs do not make a right. The solution is not compromising the word of God and telling people that homosexuality is ok, the solution is being consistent in regards ALL sin.

Hi Taylor, when I see the churches and people who attack, reject, and make outcast homosexuals over their 'unrepentant' sin do the exact same to all the 'unrepentant' divorcees on their 2nd, 3rd or more marriages that are within their churches and openly welcomed, or for those who as well completely ignore the New Testament teaching of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35:

“Women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…”

..then what you say will become a little more believable. Until then......

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Unless the people who desire to outcast and reject gay people for their 'unrepentant' sin do the exact same thing to all the divorcees getting married over and over again within the churches, then their hypocrisy is exposed for all to see.

That may be the case

But there still is no case for promoting homosexuality and using totally unrelated Bible verses to justify it
Homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord

You cannot wink at one sin by comparing it to another

You are not here seeking help with a struggle with homosexuality but continuing to promote homosexuality which is wrong

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Hi Taylor, when I see the churches and people who attack, reject, and make outcast homosexuals over their 'unrepentant' sin do the exact same to all the 'unrepentant' divorcees on their 2nd, 3rd or more marriage that are within their churches and openly welcomed, then what you say will become a little more believable. Until then......

Because you put quotations arounsd the word 'unrepentant', I assume that you don't actually believe homosexuality is a sin. The connotation I am picking up from you is that you are being somewhat sarcastic about the fact that homosexuality is a sin. for example, "How could loving someone possible be a sin?" That is how you feel, is it not? What you must understand is that we are not the judge of what is sin and what isn't sin. God is. And he has spoken to us through His Word, through His Son and through His prophets. Do not think that I am not empathetic to you; because there was a time not so long ago when I myself felt the same thing you feel, and thought the same thing you thought. When I became a Christian I was bisexual. I had met men who I had intimate and close personal relationships with that I very well could have had life long, loving, caring, devoted partnerships with. I lost all of my high school friends when I told them that I was bisexual. I went through hardships in my own family when I told them about my sexuality. I know what it means to feel like "I am not doing anything wrong! I am being open, and honest, and simply loving and making people feel good. LOVE is the answer! And there can be absolutely nothing wrong with two people loving eachother." <--- I truly felt that way, I lost friends and was estranged to immediate family because I stood firm on my stance. And when I became a Christian, I had these very same arguments with God. So I know where you are coming from. Do not get me wrong, I do. But homosexuality is a sin. It doesnt matter how humans feel about it. And homosexuals will not enter Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Do not let the sin of others (their hypocrisy in how they handle homosexuality in comparison to different sins) cause you to sin yourself. Other people's shortcomings are no excuse for your own unrepentance on judgement day.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

That may be the case

But there still is no case for promoting homosexuality

Hi Fragrant Grace and Merry Christmas!

As I stated before, I am not 'promoting' homosexuality. I am 'promoting' the love, compassion, and kindness that Christ commanded us to share with 'all' others... Jew and Gentile alike. (which today means all people, Christian and non-Christian)

Eating shellfish is also listed as an 'abomination to the Lord - Leviticus 11:12

Trimming the sides of your head or trimming a man's beard is also an abomination to the Lord - Leviticus 19-27

Levitical purity laws addressed to the Israelites do not apply to modern-day Christians, so to use those laws to condemn others with while ignoring other laws that seem inconvenient is not very reasonable.

That said, why do you use the Bible to condemn homosexuals with, but think that it's okay for Christians to ignore the following New Testament teaching? I'm simply curious..

1 Timothy 2:11-12

“A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.”

 

[Travis]

Hi Taylor, when I see the churches and people who attack, reject, and make outcast homosexuals over their 'unrepentant' sin do the exact same to all the 'unrepentant' divorcees on their 2nd, 3rd or more marriages that are within their churches and openly welcomed, or for those who as well completely ignore the New Testament teaching of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35:

“Women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…”

..then what you say will become a little more believable. Until then......

Hey Aaron,

To be blunt, what you are doing is weaving a web of deceit. I don't see anyway around just calling this one like I see it.

Someone can be divorced and remarried and acknowledge that what they did was sinful, but still remain in the next marriage they are in. It would be an even bigger sin for that person to leave the second marriage, and go back to the first one, that would just be an outright abomination. The fact that they divorced and remarried (assuming it didn't meet the biblical parameters) was sinful, but the marriage they are currently in isn't continually sinful in and of itself. Marriage (which is by definition between a man and a woman) is a good and wonderful thing. There are however consequences for a persons actions, and divorce definitely takes it's toll on a person. But if that person acknowledges that what they did was sin, and repents of it, there is no reason to kick them out of the church. Forcing them to divorce a second time would be even more sinful. If that same person has shown a lack of self control with their behavior regarding marriage and monogamy, then that is definitely grounds for them to be prevented from being permitted to serve in a leadership position in the church though. One doesn't have to be perfectly qualified for a leadership position in the church to still be a part of the church.

Likewise, someone who is self-admittedly homosexual, but wants to be a part of a church can certainly do so if they are willing to forsake their homosexual lifestyle. They can't change their desire's at a snap of a finger and no longer be attracted to the same sex anymore. God can do that, but he doesn't always do this in an instance. But, for them, there is no legitimate marriage between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman they can be a part of and still remain in the church. Marriage is between a man and a woman, so if this person is trying to remain in a homosexual relationship and be a part of the church, they are in total disobedience. That church not only has a right, but has an obligation, to keep them out of the fellowship, until they reach the point of repentance to where they can forsake their sinful lifestyle and be a part of that local body.

If a homosexual man showed up to my church, to sit on the back pew and listen to the sermon, I would be wonderfully pleased. Just as pleased as I would be to see any sinner show up to listen to the sermon. He is not doing anything evil in an of itself to show up and listen to the message and check out how the body is operating. He is not a part of the body though, even though he is currently a guest in the church. Where I would have a problem, is if that same man tried to really get involved with the church, become a member, etc. when he still thinks that his lifestyle is ok to remain in (like any other sin). Even if he truly professes to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord with his mouth, it is the obligation of the church to keep him out of fellowship, for his sake and theirs, until he repents of his sin. That's just church discipline 101. Without that, we really can't be the church. If he does repent, and becomes involved with the church, yet still continues to stumble, he can remain in the body as long as he continues to acknowledge his sin and not want to be a part of it. Loving your sin, and being occasionally overcome by sin that you hate are two very different things.

And for the record, you have about as much clue on how to interpret 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as you do the rest of the scriptures you have quoted to support your lies. Those who continually twist the scriptures do so to their own destruction in the end.

Travis

 

[Taylor Barrett]

If a homosexual man showed up to my church, to sit on the back pew and listen to the sermon, I would be wonderfully pleased. Just as pleased as I would be to see any sinner show up to listen to the sermon. He is not doing anything evil in an of itself to show up and listen to the message and check out how the body is operating. He is not a part of the body though, even though he is currently a guest in the church. Where I would have a problem, is if that same man tried to really get involved with the church, become a member, etc. when he still thinks that his lifestyle is ok to remain in (like any other sin). Even if he truly professes to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord with his mouth, it is the obligation of the church to keep him out of fellowship, for his sake and theirs, until he repents of his sin. That's just church discipline 101. Without that, we really can't be the church. If he does repent, and becomes involved with the church, yet still continues to stumble, he can remain in the body as long as he continues to acknowledge his sin and not want to be a part of it. Loving your sin, and being occasionally overcome by sin that you hate are two very different things.

Very well said.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Hey Travis,

I'm sorry you see it that way since that is not true since every Bible verse I've used to show you the love of Jesus is linked on here, so... no 'twisting' going on, and I wasn't aware that the Lutheran church was considered as being full of lies.

That stated, how exactly am I misinterpreting or 'twisting' the following New Testament teachings that everyone apparently thinks is just fine to completely ignore while choosing other teachings that apparently are very convenient for them? Are they mistranslated? Is there a portion in the Bible that says it's okay to discard them? I'm completely aware that for most modern-day churches they are completely inconvenient and most might say, not applicable to an enlightened, modern society. Still.... I'd like to hear your opinion on why they can be and are ignored in almost all congregations. Just curious..

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…”


1 Timothy 2:11-12

“A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.”